Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
This is not quite true
As paul said in rom 11, the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable..
Israel was scattered in 70 AD. so they could not have been started to be regathered in 33 CE
When will God gather Israel?
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As paul said in rom 11, the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable..
Israel was scattered in 70 AD. so they could not have been started to be regathered in 33 CE
Davy
Well-Known Member
Well, you are correct, Bible Scripture about the restoration of Israel of both the "house of Judah" (JEWS) and the "house of Israel" (ten tribes) has not happened yet today, and won't until Lord Jesus returns in the future.
Ever since God allowed Jerusalem and the 2nd temple to be destroyed by the Roman army in 70 A.D., the orthodox unbelieving Jews have been working to get the world to support their ideas of restoration. Some Jews that believe on Jesus have sided with them too, and through them many non-Jews in Christ's Church have fallen into the trap with them. So what's that really about, per God's Word?
In 1 Kings 11, God promised He would always leave one tribe at Jerusalem for Jerusalem's and David's sake. Even through Jerusalem's captivities, there has always been a small remnant of Jews that dwelt there. During God's split of old Israel, the Jews of the "house of Judah" held the lands in the south at Jerusalem-Judea, while the majority, the ten northern tribes of Israel, held the northern lands, with its capital city of its kingdom at Samaria. And the ten tribes God scattered first into their own separate captivity, and they have never to this day been joined back with the "house of Judah".
Thus the majority of the Jews living in today's nation state of Israel represent only the "house of Judah" tribes, which were made up of only the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi (and some small remnants of the ten northern tribes that refused Jeroboam's calf idols).
Yet there are orthodox Jews, and even some Christian preachers that are deceived, and try to teach that today's nation state of Israel, established in 1948 by U.N. vote, is the full... restoration of God's Israel. That's simply not true. Some Jewish scholars still believe the ten tribes of Israel are scattered and will be rejoined with Judah, while other Jewish scholars believe the ten tribes are lost forever. God showed in Amos 9:9 He will gather the ten tribes like sifting grain through a sieve, and not one grain will fall to the ground. Ezekiel 37 also shows this future gathering of the ten tribe "house of Israel" with the three tribe "house of Judah", with putting the two sticks together. And it is pointing to Christ's future reign upon His father David's throne (an earthly throne).
Davy
Well-Known Member
So what is this foolishness about, with the orthodox Jews trying to claim God has already restored the kingdom of Israel today, like in 1948?
1. The nation of Israel has NO KING sitting upon the throne of Israel there in Jerusalem today. That is a requirement of the time of restoration.
2. There is to be only ONE Lord and King over the whole world in that future restoration, per the Zechariah 14 Scripture, and Scripture like Psalms 2 and all its related Scripture.
3. Christ's elect are to be reigning with His "rod of iron" assigned Him to rule over the nations with in that future time.
4. The resurrection has to happen, which is even hinted strongly at in the Ezekiel 37 when the two sticks of Israel are put together.
I could keep going with many of both Old and New Testament Scripture evidence to show today's nation of Israel is still only about God's promise to leave one tribe in Jerusalem for Jerusalem's sake and for David's sake, per God's Promise in 1 Kings 11.
1. The nation of Israel has NO KING sitting upon the throne of Israel there in Jerusalem today. That is a requirement of the time of restoration.
2. There is to be only ONE Lord and King over the whole world in that future restoration, per the Zechariah 14 Scripture, and Scripture like Psalms 2 and all its related Scripture.
3. Christ's elect are to be reigning with His "rod of iron" assigned Him to rule over the nations with in that future time.
4. The resurrection has to happen, which is even hinted strongly at in the Ezekiel 37 when the two sticks of Israel are put together.
I could keep going with many of both Old and New Testament Scripture evidence to show today's nation of Israel is still only about God's promise to leave one tribe in Jerusalem for Jerusalem's sake and for David's sake, per God's Promise in 1 Kings 11.
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
The theological implications of the promise of the land to Israel have been shown to be central in God’s eschatological purpose for His ancient people. The promise of the land was integral in the original covenant with Abraham and was understood by him in a literal way. This is demonstrated in the constant reiteration of the promise in which literal possession of the land is implied or stated. The countless promises of the Old Testament which relate to the promise of the land were considered seriatim in a representative way. Such major passages as Isaiah 11, 14, 43, 60, 66, Jeremiah 16, 30, 31, 32, 33, Ezekiel 11, 20, 34, 37, 39, Hosea 3, Joel 3, Amos 9, Obadiah, Micah 4, Zechariah 8, and 10 were cited. Certainly this is an overwhelming proof that the entire Old Testament lends its confirmation to a promise of future possession of the land to Israel. These promises, though subject to delay and temporary dispossession, were never transferred to Gentiles but were declared to be unending in character, its title given forever with specific boundaries announced in Genesis 15 to Abraham himself.
The dispersions predicted when Israel was out of the land were prophesied, but it was demonstrated that not only were the dispersions fulfilled, but also the regathering. Evidence was adduced that the final regathering will include every Israelite to the last man, a promise which today has never been fulfilled.
The amillennial argument that the promise of the land was fulfilled in Solomon’s day was refuted by the fact that Solomon never fulfilled the promise in any proper sense, and that subsequent Scriptures regarded the promise as subject to future fulfillment. Assertions of Joshua and Nehemiah to the fact that God had fulfilled all His promises to Israel were found to be limited by the context to the thought that God had kept His Word though Israel had failed to possess the land. The arguments for future fulfillment of the promise hang therefore on the certainty of the Word of God. just as the prophecy concerning Israel has always had its fulfillment in the past, so it will also in the future. Israel’s promise of the land is just as sure as the Christian’s promise of heaven.4. The Promise Of The Land To Israel | Bible.org
hope this helps !!!
When the world and universe are falling apart and the world shakes and the day is dark, and most people on earth were killed etc etc they would be wise to have a little fear of the Lord (and dead if they don't catch the drift)Not even close....
What is this “fear” that we are told to have?
The proper fear of God is essential to those who would serve him. This profound fear of God is “the beginning of wisdom”, “the start of wisdom.” (Proverbs 9:10) It is not a morbid fear that tears down; “the fear of the Lord is pure.” (Psalm 19:9) This fear is defined at Proverbs 8:13 as “the hating of bad.” It will prevent us from following a bad course, for “in the fear of the Lord one turns away from bad.” (Proverbs 16:6)
This is a fear of displeasing someone you love...a fear of letting them down. It is not based on fear of death or punishment.
Ancient Israel teaches us valuable lessons.....mostly about what NOT to do in order to stay in God’s good graces. Since Jesus consigned the religious leaders of Israel to “Gehenna”, do you honestly think they just “made a mistake”?
What is the basis for God’s forgiveness? It is heartfelt repentance....something the Jews (as a spiritual nation) have never demonstrated since they hung Jesus on the stake to disgrace him. (Galatians 3:13) They cursed themselves and their children with Christ’s blood.....(Matthew 27:25) Why would God have grounds to forgive them? At times he just wanted to wipe them off the face of the earth. (Exodus 32:9-10)
Are you serious? What motivates our actions is more important to God than blind obedience out of fear of punishment. Catholicism counted on that to keep the masses in line for centuries. If our choices are not rightly motivated, then going through the motions is useless if our whole heart is not in it.
John 15:10...Jesus said....
“If you observe my commandments, you will remain in my love, just as I have observed the commandments of the Father and remain in his love.”
Think about Jesus’ words there....if we want to remain in God’s love as he did, we have to be obedient to all of God’s commands as he was. If we are not obedient to God, we were never 'loved' by him to start with.
John 3:16 tells us that “God loved the world” (of mankind) enough to send his son to die for them.....but those who fail to obey God, do not have the blood of Christ applied in their case. Christ’s blood covers those who love God more than they love themselves. They remain in God’s love by their continued obedience to all of his commands.....but you cannot remain in a place you never were to begin with.
What did Jesus say were the greatest commandments?
Matthew 22:28-30...
“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” 37 He said to him: “‘You must love the Lord your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’ 38 This is the greatest and first commandment. 39 The second, like it, is this: ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”
You cannot love God, half-heartedly. If devotion to God is not whole-souled, it is unacceptable.
If you demonstrate love of neighbor, but do not love God with your whole being, it is futile. It just makes you a good humanitarian. Motivation is everything to God. I believe he makes that very clear. Empty ritual and mindless repetition will not save anyone.
Of all the reasons people finally yield to God's Spirit and accept His Son, I would not rule out fear as one of them. Your idea of 'what is acceptable', and a couple of dollars might get you a cup of coffee.
God has mercy on whom He will have mercy. His love was for the whole world, not just for the chosen few who might meet your standards or what is acceptable. In those days whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved, whether you likey or lumpy.
Right and yet God is still so merciful as to provide a space of time and events that will allow the nation (those left alive in the end) to all be saved. What does that tell you about God?
That is not what God says. He will never forsake them forever. He will gather them and love them forever.
God is the One who decides destiny for man. Not you.
I try not to kick a dog when they are down. A just man falls seven times a day and rises back up again!
The ones who will mourn as for an only son in the end are saved. Not like you get a vote.
Apprently not. Countries can't make them fast enough!Didn’t Hiroshima and Nagasaki teach us that lesson?...that nuclear weapons are not a good thing at any time?
WE do after we are born again.
The only choice that matters in salvation is choosing Jesus.
No. Nothing can separate us from the love of Good, not even a comma!
The promise from Jesus that whosoever comes to Him is not limited to a time of life actually.
If we choose Jesus that is not a lie! And there is no time in life when that will not apply.
Period
Chapter and verse?
Says who? Prove that His spirit did nothing while the body was dead?
Except you made that up. I do not recall the bible saying Jesus preached to angels? That seems to be your idea.
That depends on the who is. It is not saved people! The Pharisees blabbed about God. They did not know Him. Others have used the name of Jesus who did not know Him. Nothing to do with salvation whatsoever.
Why make things up? We choose. Then if we do we are the chosen! He chooses to accept those who choose Him. No one is born pre selected. They are selected because they select Jesus. God predetermined to accept all who accept Jesus. He did not destine some to heaven or hell, in fact He died to make the Way to eternal life! To try and apply 'predestination' any other way is to spit on the sacrifice and death Of Christ.
Of coure we are concerned and preach. Strawman.
Right, so how does that relate to the topic?
Sorry to deflate your balloon. Your posts were not even on topic that I recall, interesting, or cohesive. More gook than slam dunk
The gathering will start after Jesus returns and gathers the saved Jews from all over the world. Try to distinguish 'gathering or gathered' with GOD gathering. When He gathers them it will be crystal clear and other things will also be happening such as God having wiped out all their enemies etc.
That was not pentecost or 1948! Once all Israel is saved in the end they are anything BUT 'fleshly Israel'!
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Amen,
if God will not keep his promise to them, there is no assurance he will keep it with us
I agree that the rapture is very likely before the tribulation.
That is pure speculation. You want to limit the interpretation or gates to modern weapons!
After the tribulation when all Israel is saved then they will hope in God.
That is what the time of Jacob's trial is about.
Well, I hear the streets of LA are more dangerous than Israel. So apparently many think they are safe there. But we do not need to fine tune when the tribulation starts here. The main issue is whether God has gathered them according to prophesy from all over the world already or not.
No. That is one personal interpretation. As for Israel losing all it's forces, maybe or maybe not. I doubt it. Besides, no one says total safely. A better interpretation might be 'relative safety' and they do not need to have zero armed forces for that! Besides, why would armies gather against Israel in the very end if there was no need for force!?
You assume that is the third temple, others apparently say it is the fourth, the one after Jesus returns. In any even, looking at the text, once it is described we see this
Ezekiel 43:5
So the spirit took me up, and brought me into the inner court; and, behold, the glory of the Lord filled the house.
That is NOT going to happen in the temple if there is one, around the tribulation time!
The next verse also rules out any possibility that this is in the tribulation time. (or before it starts)
Ezekiel 43:7
And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places.
That is the problem when building a house of card theory upon faulty premises.
You see, you need to grasp at foolish straws to try to make a house of cards doctrine, based on speculation seem to make some sense.
The verse you cited was about some nice old lady in the temple in Jesus' day! NOTHING to do with some precise time stamp prophesy of the tribulation period! That is frankly, ridiculous.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
It is almost as if people do not want them saved, we should be praising god they will be saved, as long as the many people who are not Jews who will also be saved,,
OK, thanks. I think we would place your view as one that says God has not yet gathered up His people from all over to the land. (right?)
Right. Also it seems some of those folks actually toss the word 'anti Semite' around to those against their position.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Many believe the view came from the extreme hate of the Jews the Roman Catholic Church had, so they changed fro. A literal view of prophecy so that their belief the church replaces Isreal could be sustained.
i just try to look at the word to see what the word says.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
ez 37 and other passages says otherwise.
they will not be restored UNTIL they repent.
what we have now is needed so a third temple can be built so the events of the last 7 years can be fulfilled. Including the AOD
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
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