Fed up with American Christian churches

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Philologos

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When I compare the new church to the modern church, the modern church is NOTHING like the new church. With the new church fellowship occurred both at church AND in real life, everyone was included, and the new church made sure nobody went without.

With the modern church, I hear incessantly 'we love and accept everyone', but in reality, this isn't true because the church caters to extroverts, marrieds raising families, and neurotypicals (those who don't have Asperger's syndrome and/or autism). If you don't fall under one or all of the aforementioned three categories you're forgotten. Fellowship is relegated to church on Sunday and small groups, but I don't see it carrying over into real life.

I am tired of the rudeness, the insensitivity, the selfishness, and being so focused on their perspective, they don't even try to understand the other person's viewpoint. I am also very tired of the go-to in-regards to helping someone ALWAYS being encouragement. I don't have an issue with encouragement in and of itself, there's nothing wrong with it, however it's not always the solution, nor is it always the appropriate thing to do depending upon what the situation is. There's nothing wrong with encouragement, there is however a huge problem with being so fixated on positivity and encouragement that the church basically refuses to talk about anything difficult/serious/'heavy' which isn't healthy and it's definitely NOT biblical to do this.



I am tired of Christians saying 'we love and care about you' but if you don't act and think like they want/think you should act and/or are difficult to love, you're basically rejected. I am also tired of Christians refusing to serve if it means being inconvenienced and/or it makes them feel uncomfortable.


When I went to church, I expected to receive support, to be able to confide in the church, to receive practical help beyond just encouragement and unsolicited advice. Instead, I'm forgotten, and have basically given up hope that I'll actually find a church where I'm truly included, because I'm not a neurotypical, not an extrovert and am an older single. Yes, I'm very angry with the church but t's for the very reasons mentioned above, but I have been hurt and forgotten by the church, and this didn't happen instantaneously, I have dealt with this with basically every church I have ever been to.

I am tired of being misunderstood incessantly; I expect this from the secular world. However I didn't expect this type of treatment from the church, which just exacerbates the pain. I don't expect them to completely understand me when they don't have Asperger's syndrome (which I do), however I am not asking them to completely understand me, I'm asking they make the effort to try to understand me, and I don't even see that much occurring.

It's sad to see people hurt, but more so at the hands of those who are supposed to build you up. I can't imagine the ongoing frustration you feel. I once met with church leadership about starting a family-integrated Sunday school "option" to develop stronger families, it was immediately rejected and not long after, a new Sunday school class for "kids interested in on-campus sports." (They made money hosting sporting events, that was their growth plan.)

I see it happening, and while it's nice to see various ministry options, it does seem that they keep vying to be "THE church" that ministers to certain communities,, but to the neglect of others.

Just stay in touch with the Lord about it, and He'll guide you through it all.
 
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Philologos

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:) ...the 'fed up' factor expressed in the original post, I believe, is that of many believers when they see the wayward institutionalisation of the modern church. It has morphed from a chaste virgin to an unashamed whore akin to my post #2.

American Protestantism is the primary player in these times spearheading a return to the abominations of the RCC......who trades for corruptible wealth and popularity.

Gotcha, thanks. I thought that might have been the point you were trying to make, but wasn't clear on your views.
 

Alfredthefifth

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The TWO churches that make it hard to decide which Church today. Have an operating principle of.

If it is a worthwhile even needed ministry it will thrive no matter what we do. All a commitee can do is ruin God's work.

One is a Lutheran Church, the other is a FRIENDS Church.
It is amazing how the Holy Spirit fills both Churches.

The other thing that both actually lack is A HOLIER-THAN-THOU attitude. Come in brother or sister and receive God's word.
The Freinds Church has seen some interesting characters come in and thrive. Some have had said everyone is watching I can't be here. I have to disagree with that everyone is watching, but actions draw attention. The one thing I keep being amazed at is not one nose in the air sniffing at someone being there.

The Lutheran Church is large enough that it is hard know everyone. Again though they I have never seen a holier-than-thou attitude.
Plus both churches are open to new things if it has the possibility to bring one more soul to hear God's word.

The Psalmist in Psalms 33 and 150, instructs
To praise lord with many instruments raising a joyful noise to the LORD. Who am I to doubt one of the greats of the Bible. Not only Great but the writer of a book of the Bible. I do pray that God's word is the joyful noise and not just noise.

I will say again spread the seed of word in anyway possible. The Holy Spirit in entertainment can has sprouted faith in hearts that would have been able to block their ears to the word.

Ode to Joy also known as Joyful Joyful we adore thee. Played in a rock concert, let the Holy Spirit touch and work in every heart there. The Holy Spirit filled that place.

But no I don’t want a rock concert church.
Musical uplifting worship though? What fool will turn their back on this?


Alfredthefifth
 

Alfredthefifth

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In Church this Sunday, two individuals and a group were so perfectly in sync it was scary.

The Group, the praise band the chosen three very thoughtful spirit invoking songs.
Tied in so well with the visiting
Pastors sermon
The music director pick of two hymns
Backed up the visiting pastor so well.

It was worshipping God.

Alfredthefifth
 

quietthinker

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In Church this Sunday, two individuals and a group were so perfectly in sync it was scary.

The Group, the praise band the chosen three very thoughtful spirit invoking songs.
Tied in so well with the visiting
Pastors sermon
The music director pick of two hymns
Backed up the visiting pastor so well.

It was worshipping God.

Alfredthefifth
hmmmmm, 'spirit invoking'....is that what is done these days?
 

quietthinker

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Do you think that the Holy Spirit has no place in churches these days?
I doubt we can tell the spirit what to do or how to do it. Jesus' conversation with Nicodemas on the matter made that clear.
The invoking of spirits is readily done in pagan practices.
Has the understanding of the spirit's role become so confused with pagan practices that our bearings are sufficiently fudged to not differentiate?
 
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Jim B

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I doubt we can tell the spirit what to do or how to do it. Jesus' conversation with Nicodemas on the matter made that clear.
The invoking of spirits is readily done in pagan practices.
Has the understanding of the spirit's role become so confused with pagan practices that our bearings are sufficiently fudged to not differentiate?

Not by those of us who have been born of the Holy Spirit.

Do you prefer services where the Holy Spirit is not present?
 
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quietthinker

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Not by those of us who have been born of the Holy Spirit.

Do you prefer services where the Holy Spirit is not present?
Jim, you've missed my point entirely. The Spirit is not an entity which can be conjured/invoked by location/practice like that of a heathen diety. To see it as so is buying into another spirit.....one that masquerades as the Holy Spirit.
 

quietthinker

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.....and I would add, the Holy Spirit is ubiquitous ....striving with all people in all circumstances most are oblivious to. The very idea that the Holy Spirit can be conjured is totally foreign to the scripture.
Spirits which are conjured like in the account of Saul with the witch of Endore are spirits belonging to the evil one. They will masquerade in any form that serves their purpose of deception.
 

Grailhunter

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Great thread @kittehsareinsane but it's something that is a situation not just limited the American churches. It's right across the western world and I've been thinking about this a lot lately and wondering if it's time for us as a body of believers to go back to our roots. Consider, the Synogues were a place where the Jewish believers would congregate and worship God the Father, when gentile believers became a reality through Christ, those believers did not join with the Jews for many reasons as you know. They had to create a whole new way of congregating first in their homes and then later on, in a church setting. I personally believe that the churches today, have changed dramatically from the days of the apostles and are more centered towards a business module rather then a place of fellowship, worship and being in the presence of a holy God. I can think of a number of times where new believers have left because they are not catered to unless they join a home group. Why not go back to that module then? It worked back in the day and it's still working now :) JM2c

Salutations Lady Angelina,

None of us want to hear about people that have left any church because they feel they were not treated right or were wronged. There are a lot of types of churches out there so I am not sure if change is what is needed. I describe myself as multi-denominational which means that I am tolerant to different denominations. Which also means I have several churches I go to....and I always admit that I am partial to the Holy Ghost churches. But I have a couple country bethel churches I go to, and one of them does not even have electricity and only recently built a more modern out-house, and the Pastors do not have a salary. Then at the other end there are the mega churches that can seat over a thousand people and they offer everything....two huge stages for services and plays and a large choir. Open all the time with things like basketball court and gym. A teen area for services for them and activities and dances. A teen café and a large area with a full kitchen and a spacious area for eating and a barbeque area and playground and a nursery for babies. And a large Bible camp that several churches use. They offer counselling and guest speakers on parenting, marriage, and substance abuse. And they have community involvement. But of course this takes lots of money and it is sort of ran like a business. They have a few offices and pastoral teams and sectaries and media productions.

Then you have the churches that are in between. My point here is that there are a lot of different types of churches and it is up to the individual to find the church of their liking. While doing this there is nothing wrong with church hopping. They need to decide what size and type of church they are looking for and what denomination they lean towards. The congregation should be friendly and welcome newcomers. I am an extravert and hard to miss and I makes friends quickly, but it is going to take more time for quiet and shy people to make friends. If a person has an issue....after picking a church they should schedule a time to get with the pastor and explain their issues and what they need. Sometimes the best way for a person to meet people is to get involved. Working along with people is sometimes the best way to be part of the group. But the fact is, a lot times it is all about what you make of it. It does not take long to get the feel of a church, if it is not friendly or is cliquish....move it along....they should not get their feeling hurt.... it is not them. There are a lot of friendly churches out there....it is up to them to find the right one.

And about what you posted about the Jewish Christians and Gentile Christians, you were right and Jim B was wrong. The Jewish Christians saw themselves as the "real" Christians and the Gentiles were allowed in as a concession. Jewish Christians could worship in the temple but Gentile Christians and non Jews had an area...a court outside where they could gather. After the biblical era and particularly after the 70 AD Roman siege the Jewish Christian sect started to die out. Most of the Apostles and their direct disciples were martyred and most of the new Christian leaders were Gentile Christians. You will not find too many early Christian writers after siege that were Jewish Christians. By the time of the early 2nd century the Gentile Christians had taken the helm of the Church.

God bless you in all you do.
 
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Alfredthefifth

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hmmmmm, 'spirit invoking'....is that what is done these days?

more twisted words

The holy spirit working in it's way caused a beautiful thing to happen.

If we tried to invoke the Spirit it would come to nothing.

It is in three people being moved directed by the spirit here, that beauty happens.

Be skeptical, it is actually good. It questions, it seeks, only total denial because of a hard heart is a bad result.

But I have been proof that what the Holy Spirit puts on my heart, is the Holy Spirit without the manipulation of men me or anyone else.
The skeptic in me was amazed to silence.

Alfredthefifth
 

Brakelite

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Not enough sleep. ;)



1. If you think about what a basic sunday service comprises of we have -
2. the welcome from the Pastor or a leader,
3. the church notices,
4. the taking up of the offering,
5. the communion,
6. the Music team begins with some Praise and worship,
7. the Pastor preaches either on a specific study they are doing or on something he has been inspired by during the week.Some times they may have a guest speaker.

8. After that we may have more worship and then some closing words or prayers.

9. Sometimes there may be an item from the childrens church or youth group and/or testimonies during the service. After the preaching, there may also be an altar call for healing or other. Depending on the denomination.

Perhaps there may be a shared lunch of coffee afterwards, depending on the type of denomination.

This does not leave much room for real fellowship with the Pastor or others in the congregation. Most take off because they have things to do at home or with family etc. Or perhaps they are tired from getting their family up and organised in time for the service. Others are busy cleaning up or pulling down packing up instruments and chairs etc[if appropriate]

It appears to me that anyone who would like to get to know members on this superficial level would have to go there every Sunday for months and still not know anyone. However, a home group would give any individual the opportunity to ask some questions which they would not have the chance to do in a church environment. They would be able to get to know other members, they would be able to open up about their personal struggles and pray together as a smaller group. They would be able to study the word together and the maturer believers would be able to share how they dealt with specific situations. They would be able to ask questions without feeling stupid. They would be able to support each other and their physical needs if necessary. Some folk don't like their personal life splattered all over the church.

This environment gives a new member or any member as a matter of fact, the opportuntiy to feel like they are a part of a nucleus family......My HG leader use to say that anything that is discussesd in this HG is not to be discussed outside of it. That gives members the ability to share their struggles and needs with others with confidence. Hebrews 10:25
At my local SDA fellowship we have a similar program as you've presented above, with the following...(now this is typical of all SDA services throughout the world with maybe a few tweaks in the order here and there)...
Main 'divine' service incorporating all you've stated above, followed by a 15 minute time of fellowship in the foyer (we call it "Connect and Care"), with cold or hot drinks and a biscuit maybe. It's an opportunity to formally introduce ourselves to visitors, chat with those who we don't normally see during the week.
After that we gather in groups according to age, children, young teens, young adults and adults, for "Sabbath School". Here we study topics according to a quarterly study program that changes ever 3 months, and is common to the global church, so if we are visiting another church in another country, the topic will be as we have been studying ourselves during the previous week.
Once a month we will have a shared lunch. On the other days there will always be someone who invites others to their home for lunch, and to spend the rest of the day in fellowship. So our Sabbaths are not a one hour meeting lol...it's an all day affair, and often involves walks, community visitations (rest homes etc).
During the week we have an open Zoom Bible study, as well as one for the men and another for ladies on different nights, giving everyone an opportunity to share and pray with and for one another, and morning prayer times also on Zoom depending on individuals availability.
The reason I shared this is to offer others here ideas for their own church setting, and ways to extend fellowship and to involve everyone in ministry and fellowship. Or, visit us in Cranbourne Melbourne, where you will be welcomed lol. Address supplied on request. :)
 

Dropship

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Fed up with American Christian churches

If a church makes you fed up they can't be true Christians.
Some of our Brit churches are real stinkers too, and some have even got gay vicars..

gay vicar.jpg

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Coles.jpg
 

Jim B

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Jim, you've missed my point entirely. The Spirit is not an entity which can be conjured/invoked by location/practice like that of a heathen diety. To see it as so is buying into another spirit.....one that masquerades as the Holy Spirit.

That is just your opinion. However, Scripture says something different...

Acts 2:38, "Peter said to them, “Repent, and each one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

Acts 8:15-17, "These two went down and prayed for them so that they would receive the Holy Spirit. (For the Spirit had not yet come upon any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) Then Peter and John placed their hands on the Samaritans, and they received the Holy Spirit."

Acts 10:44, "While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all those who heard the message."
 

Alfredthefifth

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I from painful experience in a prototypical American Christian Church, want to prove the church be fore I commit.

One option is go to church straight from work un washed. Those welcome me aren't going by your sunday appearance.
Don't be shy about admitting your failings, a holier-than-thou will reveal themselves right away. Maybe not waving it like a flag, but not hiding your dirty laundry so to speak will bring out the true self of the church.

I was taught that all church of a congress, sect, denomination are exactly the same.
While some denominations work hard to make this true it isn't.
An exceptional congregation with an exceptional pastor can make one congregation the exception that proves the normal state.
There are a couple denominations that the variance church to church is enormous you wonder how the fit under the same umbrella?

Go to church as yourself, maybe even yourself on a bad day. Don't be afraid of trying many churches. Pray that the holy spirit convicts your heart to the church for you.

Alfredthefifth