The Divine Plan of the Ages by Charles T Russell - Jehovah's Witnesses

face2face · Aug 3, 2022

Jeremiah 3:13-17

@Aunty Jane Why does the prophet say that natural Israel will no longer talk about the ark of the Covenant? They wont even bring it to mind? Not even remember it, or miss it?

Why Jane?

ScottA · Aug 4, 2022

face2face said:
No dodge!
You said you posted relevant Scriptural text but if you are unable to speak to the Scriptures in #46 & #48 what is there to discuss? You have no position.

As I said, I did. But now you have rejected it two times. So be it.

face2face · Aug 4, 2022

ScottA said:
As I said, I did. But now you have rejected it two times. So be it.

Convenient.
#46 & #48 as I said twice now holds the relevant text on this subject but if you wish to reject those Scriptures that is your choice.

ScottA · Aug 4, 2022

face2face said:
Convenient.
#46 & #48 as I said twice now holds the relevant text on this subject but if you wish to reject those Scriptures that is your choice.

I did not reject, but explained in post #45.

How is it that you did not know that corrections were to come?

Alfredthefifth · Aug 5, 2022

I read through 64 posts on this thread.
What no one posted?
The End of The world known and for sure!

Armageddon or the end of the world, eight predictions of knowing when it would be.

The last one, I didn't slam the door on anyone I wasn't mean or nasty.

But as soon as the JW started on saving myself from the end of the world and showing me in the watch tower when it would be, I barrowed the Bible from his hand and opened it to MATHEW were Jesus says no one not even the angels in heaven not even I know the day or the hour of my return.

The JW always tried to get back into the Watch Tower. I stayed in the Bible. Your prophet says, show me the chapter and verse, in your Bible.
It wasn't even a challenging Bible study. And that was using the bible carried to my door and not My bible.

Not just one but 8 failed end of days predictions, that is what a .000 batting average.

But talking numbers 8.5 million applications for 144,000 thousand spots that is only 59 applications for one spot. Not quite lottery numbers.

The Holy Spirit has been strong in my life and I take a good look at any Church I drive past. Somehow my head isn't allowed to look at a Kingdom Hall. It isn't my will that will not let me see.
Having felt and seen amazing things. Having started to have appropriate words of comfort for a stranger just poor out of my mouth when I am convinced I the grandiose I do not have a voice for God?

Beware of false prophets.
I guess 8 failed prophecies is a good record.
The Prophet Got the signs wrong?
But the Bible says only Jehovah, God himself knows and he isn't telling anyone!
The end it will sneak up like a thief in the night.

I am not poking fun, I am reporting what many say. It is hard not to. Poke fun that is.

But when the prop of faith is proven to be an empty prop? That prop is the Bible that was carried to my door, while not being able to use it, use it all, all the preparation was in the WatchTower. What other choice is there?

But I do notice that 38 years have passed by since it was last prophesied. Was it bad for recruiting? The failed prophecy that is.

I am sorry if I come off as being critical of a body of believers. But my Bible warns me and The Holy Spirit in me convince me that this is the False Prophet warned against.

But I don't single out there are other bodies that are up there.
Heard any POPE jokes lately?

I will probably hear how I am being needlessly nasty here. If you hear what I hear this is small talk over a cup of coffee and no were near the real nastiness that is aimed at.............!

Alfredthefifth

face2face · Aug 7, 2022

ScottA said:
I did not reject, but explained in post #45.

How is it that you did not know that corrections were to come?

You should go back to post #45 and see that you explained nothing.

face2face · Aug 7, 2022

@Aunty Jane - failure on your part to acknowledge the great cluster of prophecies concerning natural Israel and the work of Christ and the Saints on earth totally removes your communities current position and understanding of end times.

Two notable things you have stated in our exchange:

1. No mercy for Adam & Eve
2. No mercy for natural Israel

On both accounts this is highly transparent of type of God you worship, a different God that Charles Russel knew.

The indoctrination is startling and there is an irony in what you have become!

The Apostles Pauls teaching could not be any more real for the JW's

New World Translation:

Romans 11:25 brothers, so that you do not become wise in your own eyes: A partial dulling of senses has come upon Israel until the full number of people of the (gentiles) nations has come in.

He even gave you a time stamp! After which the work of the Saints in the earth will begin to write that New Covenant on their hearts not before a great refining and purging will take place.

You should continue to be silent but in your silence you ought to revisit your founders good works and be humbled by them.

F2F

Wrangler · Aug 7, 2022

face2face said:
ane made certain claims about her community so I took it upon myself to shine a light on their error. They had a beautiful truth which they let go

I'm not understanding your point. Can you clarify concisely what truth they had and how they let it go?

face2face · Aug 7, 2022

Wrangler said:
I'm not understanding your point. Can you clarify concisely what truth they had and how they let it go?

Try reading this work on their old and new beliefs.
Jehovah’s Witnesses and Israel – From Literal to Spiritual by Jason Wright
Basically they believe God has washed His hands of the Nation of Israel and instead only recognize spiritual Israel.
The evidence for the restoration of natural Israel is so great they would need to remove so many prophecies and do so much harm to the text. It's rare indeed for a body to let go of a truth and replace it with error. In most cases Christianity has started with error and only built upon it over time.

ScottA · Aug 8, 2022

face2face said:
You should go back to post #45 and see that you explained nothing.

Quoting your testimony...as you are obviously blind to what I did in fact explain.

face2face · Aug 9, 2022

ScottA said:
Quoting your testimony...as you are obviously blind to what I did in fact explain.

Show your patience by trying again.

quietthinker · Aug 9, 2022

Aunty Jane said:
OK then...you know it all, so off you go and convince others in the world of your discoveries because apparently you are the only one God has revealed them too.....all the best with that. pursuit
“Shaking the dust off”....not wasting any more time....

hmmmm, shaking off the dust hey?.... Is that like you did to me when I put you the spot? Never mind, you're loved nevertheless......even when you make it difficult!

ScottA · Aug 9, 2022

face2face said:
Show your patience by trying again.

ScottA said:
There was to be no "future" per se for Israel beyond that ("this") generation of Christ 2,000 years ago, as He came but for the house of Israel and "It is finished."

Jesus came for the house of Israel and "finished" all that He came to do, then went on to the "other sheep...which are not of this fold"...that He also "must bring." Then the gospel went out to the gentiles:

Matthew 15:24
But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

John 19:28
After this, Jesus, knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the Scripture might be fulfilled, said, “I thirst!”
John 19:30
So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.

John 10:16
And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.

Isaiah 42:1
“Behold! My Servant whom I uphold, My Elect One in whom My soul delights! I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.

Acts 9:15
But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel.

Acts 18:6
But when they opposed him and blasphemed, he shook his garments and said to them, “Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean. From now on I will go to the Gentiles.”

Luke 21:24
And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

Thus, these are now the times of the gentiles. And there is not "gap" in Daniel's prophecy between the 69 weeks and week 70 as many have believed--for Jesus Himself said, "It is finished." But many have believed a lie:

2 Thessalonians 2:11
And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,

face2face · Aug 10, 2022

ScottA said:
Jesus came for the house of Israel and "finished" all that He came to do, then went on to the "other sheep...which are not of this fold"...that He also "must bring." Then the gospel went out to the gentiles:

Matthew 15:24
But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

John 19:28
After this, Jesus, knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the Scripture might be fulfilled, said, “I thirst!”
John 19:30
So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.

John 10:16
And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.

Isaiah 42:1
“Behold! My Servant whom I uphold, My Elect One in whom My soul delights! I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.

Acts 9:15
But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel.

Acts 18:6
But when they opposed him and blasphemed, he shook his garments and said to them, “Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean. From now on I will go to the Gentiles.”

Luke 21:24
And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

Thus, these are now the times of the gentiles. And there is not "gap" in Daniel's prophecy between the 69 weeks and week 70 as many have believed--for Jesus Himself said, "It is finished." But many have believed a lie:

2 Thessalonians 2:11
And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,

You are going over old ground...no one here disagrees the Gospel went out to the Gentiles however the thread is solely discussing Natural Israel and the many prophecies which remain unfulfilled.

Hence why I asked you a number of times to deal with the "relevant" Scriptures.

For example:

Romans 11:25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

1. Scott, dont be ignorant! (wise in your own mind)
2. You are clearly unaware of the mystery!
3. Context here is speaking to natural Israel not spiritual Israel, therefore we are told a "partial" hardening has come upon them. Notice not a full hardening i.e some Jews were still coming to Christ...though many rejected him as foretold.
4. The word "until" provides you an end date (unknown) when this hardening will end.

Your challenge is to go away and find the prophecies which relate to "how" this partial hardening will come to an end.

Do you know any prophecies which relate to this "until" time frame?

F2F

face2face · Aug 21, 2022

ScottA said:
Jesus came for the house of Israel and "finished" all that He came to do, then went on to the "other sheep...which are not of this fold"...that He also "must bring." Then the gospel went out to the gentiles:

Matthew 15:24
But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

John 19:28
After this, Jesus, knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the Scripture might be fulfilled, said, “I thirst!”
John 19:30
So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.

John 10:16
And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.

Isaiah 42:1
“Behold! My Servant whom I uphold, My Elect One in whom My soul delights! I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.

Acts 9:15
But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel.

Acts 18:6
But when they opposed him and blasphemed, he shook his garments and said to them, “Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean. From now on I will go to the Gentiles.”

Luke 21:24
And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

Thus, these are now the times of the gentiles. And there is not "gap" in Daniel's prophecy between the 69 weeks and week 70 as many have believed--for Jesus Himself said, "It is finished." But many have believed a lie:

2 Thessalonians 2:11
And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,

Did you ever go in search of that mystery Paul spoke concerning natural Israel?

Romans 11:25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

ScottA · Aug 22, 2022

face2face said:
Did you ever go in search of that mystery Paul spoke concerning natural Israel?

Romans 11:25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

The mystery or "hardness" is also translated as "blindness"...which for lack of sight brought the abomination of desolation, as well as their salvation and that of the gentiles.

face2face · Aug 22, 2022

ScottA said:
The mystery or "hardness" is also translated as "blindness"...which for lack of sight brought the abomination of desolation, as well as their salvation and that of the gentiles.

And what is the time stamp on their blindness?

ScottA · Aug 22, 2022

face2face said:
And what is the time stamp on their blindness?

Time is an illusion...but I suspect that is not what you mean to get into.

I could tell you, but perhaps I should ask you. What do the scriptures say?

face2face · Aug 22, 2022

ScottA said:
Time is an illusion...but I suspect that is not what you mean to get into.

I could tell you, but perhaps I should ask you. What do the scriptures say?

Fairly clear...until the time of the Gentiles be fulfilled. Following this we need to leave Romans to see what events take place upon the Lords return. It's a detailed picture.

ScottA · Aug 22, 2022

face2face said:
Fairly clear...until the time of the Gentiles be fulfilled. Following this we need to leave Romans to see what events take place upon the Lords return. It's a detailed picture.

Oh, I see what you are inferring...but I believe you are assuming the Lord has not returned. Which is not to say He has returned to all, but to many, as Paul explained: "but each one in his own order."

So, if you believe that the Lord's return is rather one big future event, that is the error of many, but not the truth.

As for the word "until" (the times of the gentiles are fulfilled) and what it actually refers to: It refers to what Paul explained...that Christ comes to "each on in his own order." Yet the order of each in the world, is not the order of each in the kingdom. The time of all such events is "now", just as it is for salvation. Just as the scriptures indicated (as Paul said), we "were" crucified with Christ--which is the timing of each according to God, and also the timing of Israel's blindness being removed--for they proceed us, as Paul also said. So no, it is not future, but past--that is as the world defines past and future.

But if we continue to dance about the world giving precedence to its times, the past tense or timeless language is shrouded in that same blindness. Nonetheless, "were" and "I am" and salvation being "now" are not of the world, but are a mystery and foolishness to the natural man.

The Divine Plan of the Ages by Charles T Russell - Jehovah's Witnesses

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