Athens or Jerusalem or Neither?

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MatthewG

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A video on ways of thinking, with mention of some philosophers, and ethics.

Should one think like the Greeks?
Should one think like the Jews?
Should one mix the two?
Should one divide against the other?
Should one think for themselves along with reasoning and logic?
 

Jay Ross

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The parable of the Judgement of the sheep and the Goats is between two ways of understanding, one being Hebraic with the other is being Grecian.

I would agree with the thrust of the video from the few minutes that I have watched. In Jeremiah's time the people said that they have the Temple and that God would do noting to undermine their faith in the Temple. Todays we have people who say, we have the "New Covenant," and that God would do nothing that would undermine their faith in the New Covenant. Both periods, during the time of Jeremiah and today, demonstrates the logic of man's thinking. Just as the understanding of the people in Jeremiah's time was flawed, so to is the understanding of the people at this time where they believe that the New Covenant will save them during this time of uncertainty during this time of unfolding events.

Perhaps I will have time to watch the video and reconsider my thoughts, but I am content with my understanding of the Parable of the separation of the Sheep from the Goats of those who call Jesus Lord, Lord.

Shalom

PS: after listening to the video some more, the speaker seems to be having an intellectual discussion with himself without seemingly going anywhere with that discussion.
 
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Jay Ross

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After listen a little more I decided to check out the background of the speaker and this is what I saw: -

upload_2021-11-25_9-31-22.png

Not making a judgement about the person or the program, but I would be careful with regards to the teaching presented.

Shalom
 

MatthewG

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Thank you for sharing and your comment.

He has taught me many things, one being to think for oneself and to challenge anything and everything and to read the Bible. It’s the only way to renew the mind.
 
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Jay Ross

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He has taught me many things, one being to think for oneself and to challenge anything and everything and to read the Bible. It’s the only way to renew the mind.

So can I assume that you also hold to the same tenants as he does then.
 

Matthias

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“For ‘Who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to instruct him?’ But we have the mind of the Messiah.”

(1 Corinthians 2:16, NTE)

Those who have the mind of the Messiah should think (speak, and act) like the Messiah.
 

Wrangler

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Not making a judgement about the person or the program, but I would be careful with regards to the teaching presented.

Shalom

Seems like you are judging. What is it about Mormonism that turns people off? I don't get it. He prays to open. Nicely done.

Regarding your comment, 'the speaker seems to be having an intellectual discussion with himself without seemingly going anywhere with that discussion;' I agree. Although I did not watch most of the vid, I got the sense I'm eavesdropping on a stream of consciousness. As if he is a truck driver on a long haul and his mind wanders from the road.

'Athens or Jerusalem. Neither.' May be the title of his talk but there seemed to be no thesis, no premise, no objective. Maybe he stated it in more explicit terms many minutes into the vid, after finishing his meandering stream of consciousness. Lately, I've been attracted to Prager U type vids, targeted at 5 minutes.
1. Moral Issue Under Discussion: The Holocaust
2. Thesis: Why the perpetrators thought they were doing right?
3. Explanation: History, Economics, Politics, Cultural Mores.
4. Summary Conclusion: And where to go for more details.​
 

Jay Ross

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Seems like you are judging. What is it about Mormonism that turns people off? I don't get it. He prays to open. Nicely done.

Regarding your comment, 'the speaker seems to be having an intellectual discussion with himself without seemingly going anywhere with that discussion;' I agree. Although I did not watch most of the vid, I got the sense I'm eavesdropping on a stream of consciousness. As if he is a truck driver on a long haul and his mind wanders from the road.

'Athens or Jerusalem. Neither.' May be the title of his talk but there seemed to be no thesis, no premise, no objective. Maybe he stated it in more explicit terms many minutes into the vid, after finishing his meandering stream of consciousness.

Seems like you too are making a judgement, and have chosen to go elsewhere for input into your life.

Paul writes about God's wisdom: -

1 Cor 2:10-16: - 10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.

13 These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 16 For "who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?" But we have the mind of Christ.
NKJV
 
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Wrangler

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Seems like you too are making a judgement, and have chosen to go elsewhere for input into your life.
Not sure why you quote Scripture or reference me going elsewhere. I was only referring to the presenters presentation style, not the content of this theology.
 

bluedragon

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Thank you for sharing and your comment.

He has taught me many things, one being to think for oneself and to challenge anything and everything and to read the Bible. It’s the only way to renew the mind.

Do you work? Keep a job longer than a month?
 
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bluedragon

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OK,

Having hired and fired numerous people over time. It's with careful consideration that I suggest that phrase be limited in scope and use.

When you reach my level of management and capability ....only those of us at that level can challenge and question everything. In other words, my time spent in Board Rooms was not emptying trash cans. I have a lot of wisdom, experience and thought to offer. I accept your request for privacy. Well positioned. I apologize if I offended in any way.
 

Matthias

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Jerusalem.

“If I forget you, Jerusalem, may my right hand forget its skill. May my tongue stick to the roof of my mouth if I do not remember you, if I do not exalt Jerusalem as my greatest joy.”

(Psalm 137:5-6, HCSB)
 

MatthewG

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No problem, no offense taken. It was odd though. Spent a lot of time dealing with trash in my own life. Someone’s gotta do it… lol. Always appreciated the lower spectrum of life’s lower jobs, such as plumbing, thank God for those people who are capable of doing it. @bluedragon. Always have had appreciation for those in the higher roles as well, and even those who handle the sickly and mentally ill, and disabled. Amazing God has created so many people with many different talents, sometimes we can even choose to waste them throwing them away so easily by chasing after fleshly desires that amount to only some much compared to spiritual gifts God really desires to give by the Holy Spirit if people choose to look towards him and his Son.
 

quietthinker

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A video on ways of thinking, with mention of some philosophers, and ethics.

Should one think like the Greeks?
Should one think like the Jews?
Should one mix the two?
Should one divide against the other?
Should one think for themselves along with reasoning and logic?
Jesus did not regularly say, 'if you have ears to hear then hear,' for no reason.
The tendency to shoot ones mouth off as if one is an authority is every fools game.....and for those who see/hear, it is obvious.

Two ears and one mouth ought to tell us much......but who can hear it?
 

M3n0r4h

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A video on ways of thinking, with mention of some philosophers, and ethics.

Should one think like the Greeks?
Should one think like the Jews?
Should one mix the two?
Should one divide against the other?
Should one think for themselves along with reasoning and logic?
Unless one listens to the whole video, it can be easy to get lost in spacehere. Philosophy can either be totally boring or totally interesting. I fall in the middle somewhat, because what I learned about philosophy was mainly from Bruce Gore on youtube. He made philosophy palatable and interesting as he taught it at a private Christian high school.

I am very familiar with Shawn McCraney because we are both ex-Mormons, and I used to listen to his HOTM program more often a couple of years back. I became a convert to Mormonism after my military service and was only a member for around three years, whereas, Shawn had been a life long Mormon. He got in hot water after he wrote Born-Again Mormon: Moving Toward Christian Authenticity while he was still an active member and held a position in the SLC LDS sect. At the end of this video, it doesn't appear that Shawn is supporting the view of either philosopher juxtaposed to God, but rather presenting the idea that the way we try to interact with God is by both reason and faith. We always look to God for the answers and not some flawed philosophies of men (including the philosophies of the reformers), even if they were considered to be Christian philosophers. This was a heavy study, and although I haven't seen one of his programs for years; Shawn at his best when debunking Mormonism from its own sources. Cheers.