Electing New Pope

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Blue Dragonfly's

Well-Known Member
Jul 15, 2022
1,190
582
113
not this Christian parody site
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
Amen, babies are saved at birth.

They grow up to be sinners as they become adolescents/adults.

God does not send babies to hell.

Catholics teach the silliest doctrines in Christendom.
I think the biggest travesty is the infant baptism by the church isn't that what puts into covenant that infant with God.
Rather it bonds them in covenant to the church.

And gives salvicific authority to the church that teaches unless the Catholic is baptized in the church they are not saved and cannot enter Heaven.

CCC 1213 Holy Baptism is the basis of the whole Christian life, the gateway to life in the Spirit (vitae spiritualis ianua), and the door which gives access to the other sacraments. Through Baptism we are freed from sin and reborn as sons of God; we become members of Christ, are incorporated into the Church and made sharers in her mission: "Baptism is the sacrament of regeneration through water in the word."

The Baptism of Infants

The usual church for Baptism is the parish church of the family whose baby is to be baptised. Contact should be made with the Parish Priest to arrange for the baptismal preparation and a suitable date for the baptism. Most parishes offer baptismal preparation and the opportunity to meet parishioners and other families with children for baptism. This enables those seeking baptism to feel part of the parish community and heightens the significance of the baptism being celebrated in the local parish community. Where for some good reason, the family is seeking to celebrate the baptism outside their parish church, the permission of their parish priest needs to be obtained and given to the celebrant of the baptism. Godparents share in the responsibility with the parents, of introducing to, instructing in, supporting and forming the Catholic faith in their godchildren. For this reason, parents need to take great care in choosing godparents and take into account in their choice the commitment to and practice of the Catholic faith and preparedness of the godparents to be involved in the faith development of the child for whom they are accepting this responsibility. Because of the importance of the godparents’ role as a model and mentor of the Catholic faith they must be Catholics. Provision is made for further support by non-Catholics through the role of Witnesses of Faith who stand with the godparents.


DCAM > Catholic Faith > Sacraments > Baptism
 
  • Like
Reactions: Truther

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,509
12,929
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Amen, babies are saved at birth.

No. Babies are born in sin. (They are born of a mans corrupt seed, they neither know, love or believe in God.) Should they physically die, they become Saved.
The Gift of Salvation is always given after a bodily death...
Thus the point of being “crucified with Christ”, effects THOSE people with The Gift of Salvation Then.
Others, (believers, who continue believing, then physically die, Become Saved at that time.).

Catholics teach the silliest doctrines in Christendom.

Agree.
 

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,509
12,929
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I think the biggest travesty is the infant baptism by the church isn't that what puts into covenant that infant with God.
Rather it bonds them in covenant to the church.

And gives salvicific authority to the church that teaches unless the Catholic is baptized in the church they are not saved and cannot enter Heaven.

I’m not all rah rah on Catholic Doctrines, traditions, rituals, trinkets, teaching methods.
Teaching a baby has received the HS, without his knowledge or consent, is too far out there for me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Blue Dragonfly's

Truther

Well-Known Member
Dec 2, 2019
10,295
1,479
113
62
Lodi
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I entered the New Covenant and therefore, the family of GodJUST like the infants in the OT entered the Covenant and the People of God. In BOTH cases – it was done by the faith and obedience of our PARENTS.

I believe this is the 50th time I’ve explained this to you.
You’re about as dense as they come . . .
When you were baptized as an infant, you made a covenant with God?

What did you say in your part of the covenant?

God understands grunts and whimpers as repenting and making a commitment?

You okay?
 

Truther

Well-Known Member
Dec 2, 2019
10,295
1,479
113
62
Lodi
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Can either of you geniuses show me where the BIBLE teaches this?
Chapter and Verse, please . . .
But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
 

Truther

Well-Known Member
Dec 2, 2019
10,295
1,479
113
62
Lodi
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I think the biggest travesty is the infant baptism by the church isn't that what puts into covenant that infant with God.
Rather it bonds them in covenant to the church.

And gives salvicific authority to the church that teaches unless the Catholic is baptized in the church they are not saved and cannot enter Heaven.

CCC 1213 Holy Baptism is the basis of the whole Christian life, the gateway to life in the Spirit (vitae spiritualis ianua), and the door which gives access to the other sacraments. Through Baptism we are freed from sin and reborn as sons of God; we become members of Christ, are incorporated into the Church and made sharers in her mission: "Baptism is the sacrament of regeneration through water in the word."

The Baptism of Infants

The usual church for Baptism is the parish church of the family whose baby is to be baptised. Contact should be made with the Parish Priest to arrange for the baptismal preparation and a suitable date for the baptism. Most parishes offer baptismal preparation and the opportunity to meet parishioners and other families with children for baptism. This enables those seeking baptism to feel part of the parish community and heightens the significance of the baptism being celebrated in the local parish community. Where for some good reason, the family is seeking to celebrate the baptism outside their parish church, the permission of their parish priest needs to be obtained and given to the celebrant of the baptism. Godparents share in the responsibility with the parents, of introducing to, instructing in, supporting and forming the Catholic faith in their godchildren. For this reason, parents need to take great care in choosing godparents and take into account in their choice the commitment to and practice of the Catholic faith and preparedness of the godparents to be involved in the faith development of the child for whom they are accepting this responsibility. Because of the importance of the godparents’ role as a model and mentor of the Catholic faith they must be Catholics. Provision is made for further support by non-Catholics through the role of Witnesses of Faith who stand with the godparents.


DCAM > Catholic Faith > Sacraments > Baptism
Acts 2:38, Mark 16:16 and Matt 28:19 are explicitely for adults, not infants.

The RCC is flat out off their rocker with infant baptism and infant covenants.

I guess those that teach talking and bleeding statues are real, are not to be taken lightly, huh?
 

Truther

Well-Known Member
Dec 2, 2019
10,295
1,479
113
62
Lodi
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No. Babies are born in sin. (They are born of a mans corrupt seed, they neither know, love or believe in God.) Should they physically die, they become Saved.
The Gift of Salvation is always given after a bodily death...
Thus the point of being “crucified with Christ”, effects THOSE people with The Gift of Salvation Then.
Others, (believers, who continue believing, then physically die, Become Saved at that time.).



Agree.
God sends aborted fetuses to hell?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Blue Dragonfly's

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,509
12,929
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
God sends aborted fetuses to hell?

An aborted fetus is a forming body.
Body’s do not come from hell or return to hell.
Body’s return to dust of the earth.
In that context, I would say an aborted forming body returns to dust of the earth.
 

Blue Dragonfly's

Well-Known Member
Jul 15, 2022
1,190
582
113
not this Christian parody site
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
Acts 2:38, Mark 16:16 and Matt 28:19 are explicitely for adults, not infants.

The RCC is flat out off their rocker with infant baptism and infant covenants.

I guess those that teach talking and bleeding statues are real, are not to be taken lightly, huh?
Acts 2:38, Mark 16:16 and Matt 28:19 are explicitely for adults, not infants.

The RCC is flat out off their rocker with infant baptism and infant covenants.

I guess those that teach talking and bleeding statues are real, are not to be taken lightly, huh?
Their god sends miscarried,aborted, unbaptized, babies to Hell.
That's Moloch that feeds babies into the fires.

Not Jehovah.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Truther

Blue Dragonfly's

Well-Known Member
Jul 15, 2022
1,190
582
113
not this Christian parody site
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
An aborted fetus is a forming body.
Body’s do not come from hell or return to hell.
Body’s return to dust of the earth.
In that context, I would say an aborted forming body returns to dust of the earth.
And their soul? Where does their soul go?

It returns to the God who gave it. Ecclesiastes 12
 
  • Like
Reactions: Truther

Truther

Well-Known Member
Dec 2, 2019
10,295
1,479
113
62
Lodi
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
An aborted fetus is a forming body.
Body’s do not come from hell or return to hell.
Body’s return to dust of the earth.
In that context, I would say an aborted forming body returns to dust of the earth.
As soon as it is born and if it dies for some reason, does God send it to hell after it leaves it's mother?
 

Truther

Well-Known Member
Dec 2, 2019
10,295
1,479
113
62
Lodi
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Agreed. David's saying he was born in sin and iniquity shaped him was a reference to his mother's conceiving him in an affair. Not the birth state of all human life.
I had to change my view to what you said years ago.
Jesus really does love the children of the world
 
  • Like
Reactions: Blue Dragonfly's

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Acts 2:38 does not apply to infants(...Repent, and be baptized....), nor does Matt 28:19(...and teach all nations, baptizing them...) .

They can neither repent, nor be taught.

They are innocent.

The RCC is completely nuts.

they still need Christ and grace and to have baptism remove original sin so they can enter the kingdom Jn 3:5

don’t need repentance only baptism in obedience to Matt 28:19

where do any of these verses say “except infants”??????

Infant Baptism is biblical!

Acts 2:38-39 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Promise is to you’re children! Vs 39

This promise made in ez 36
A promise from God is a sacred oath, and a sacred oath is a sacrament!

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Acts 16:15 entire household baptized! Does not say except infants!

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness.

(It does not say accept infants!)

Baptism is the Christian initiation sacrament of the new covenant for all men. Matt 28:19 Jn 1:29 Jn 3:16

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (It does not say except infants!) (but it does say “all”)!

Lk 1:10-11 all people including infants

Thee faith is required for baptism.
Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

If it’s not possible (as in the case of infants) it’s not required.

But the promise of the parents to raise and educate the child in the faith is required, then the child is confirmed in thee faith at the age of reason.

Repentance is required for baptism. Acts 2:38

If there is no personal sin to repent of (as in the case of infants) then it’s not required.

For two thousand years the church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles has always baptized infants!


they will be taught the faith as they grow up and then receive the sacrament of confirmation!
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Acts 2:38 does not apply to infants(...Repent, and be baptized....), nor does Matt 28:19(...and teach all nations, baptizing them...) .

They can neither repent, nor be taught.

They are innocent.

The RCC is completely nuts.

Acts 2:39 THIS PROMISE IS TO YOUR CHILDREN!!!!!!!!!!

can’t miss it!
 

Truther

Well-Known Member
Dec 2, 2019
10,295
1,479
113
62
Lodi
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
they still need Christ and grace and to have baptism remove original sin so they can enter the kingdom Jn 3:5

don’t need repentance only baptism in obedience to Matt 28:19

where do any of these verses say “except infants”??????

Infant Baptism is biblical!

Acts 2:38-39 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Promise is to you’re children! Vs 39

This promise made in ez 36
A promise from God is a sacred oath, and a sacred oath is a sacrament!

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Acts 16:15 entire household baptized! Does not say except infants!

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness.

(It does not say accept infants!)

Baptism is the Christian initiation sacrament of the new covenant for all men. Matt 28:19 Jn 1:29 Jn 3:16

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (It does not say except infants!) (but it does say “all”)!

Lk 1:10-11 all people including infants

Thee faith is required for baptism.
Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

If it’s not possible (as in the case of infants) it’s not required.

But the promise of the parents to raise and educate the child in the faith is required, then the child is confirmed in thee faith at the age of reason.

Repentance is required for baptism. Acts 2:38

If there is no personal sin to repent of (as in the case of infants) then it’s not required.

For two thousand years the church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles has always baptized infants!


they will be taught the faith as they grow up and then receive the sacrament of confirmation!
The promise to the children was about recieving the baptism of the Holy Ghost which is followed by speaking in supernatural tongues per the same chapter.

Not repentance and water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.

Repentance and water baptism is not a promise but a command.

Get it right.

Babies jabber, but not in supernatural tongues.
 

Truther

Well-Known Member
Dec 2, 2019
10,295
1,479
113
62
Lodi
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Acts 2:39 THIS PROMISE IS TO YOUR CHILDREN!!!!!!!!!!

can’t miss it!
I am 61.

I am my father and mother's child.

That never ceases.

Catholics must disown their children at 8 days old.
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The promise to the children was about recieving the baptism of the Holy Ghost which is followed by speaking in supernatural tongues per the same chapter.

Not repentance and water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.

Repentance and water baptism is not a promise but a command.

Get it right.

Babies jabber, but not in supernatural tongues.

acts 2:39 “this promise” referred to ez 36:25-27