Should Christians Celebrate Christmas?

SealedEternal · Dec 15, 2011

aspen said:
SealEternity - I understand that you have concerns about the pagan roots of Christmas, which is why you choose not to celebrate it; I am wondering if your are consistent in your rejection of pagan activities?

One example, off the top of my head is the marriage ceremony and the institution of marriage. Pagans married centuries before Judaism and Christianity began. Egyptians married and were generally monogamous - in fact, there were penalties for spouses who cheated. Also, the wedding ring is a pagan symbol, which means infinity.

I am interested in your comments.

Pagans didn't invent marriage. God Did. Have you not read the Bible?

Genesis 2:21 So the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; then He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that place. 22 The LORD God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man. 23 The man said, "This is now bone of my bones, And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man." 24 For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh

Matthew 19:4-6 And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, and said, 'FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH'? "So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."

Mark 10: 6-12 "But from the beginning of creation, God MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE. "FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH; so they are no longer two, but one flesh. "What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate." In the house the disciples began questioning Him about this again. And He *said to them, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her; and if she herself divorces her husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery."

SealedEternal

aspen · Dec 15, 2011

And the ring?

SealedEternal · Dec 15, 2011

aspen said:
And the ring?

What about it? What "god" is supposedly honored when one wears a wedding ring?

SealedEternal

aspen · Dec 15, 2011

SealedEternal said:
What about it? What "god" is supposedly honored when one wears a wedding ring?

SealedEternal

It is pagan

SealedEternal · Dec 15, 2011

aspen said:
It is pagan

Why?

aspen · Dec 15, 2011

SealedEternal said:
Why?

What do you mean, 'why'?

"The wedding ring, that most famous and instantly recognizable symbol of the
(hopefully perpetual) joining of a man and a woman as husband and wife in the
institution of marriage, has a long, wide spread and mysterious history. Its
beginnings lie in the deserts of North Africa, where the ancient Egyptian
civilization sprang up along the fertile flood plains of the river Nile. This
river was bringer of all fortune and life to the Pharaoh’s people and from
plants growing on its’ banks were the first wedding rings fashioned. Sedges,
rushes and reeds, growing alongside the well-known papyrus were twisted and
braided into rings for fingers and larger bracelets for wrists.
The ring is of course a circle and this was the symbol of eternity for the
Egyptians as well as many other ancient cultures. It had no beginning and no
end, like time. It returned to itself, like life; and the shape was worshipped
in the form of the Sun and the Moon. The hole in the center of the ring is not
just space either; it is important in its own right as the symbol of the
gateway, or door; leading to things and events both known and unknown."

May as well wear an Egyptian cross if you are going to wear a ring........

SealedEternal · Dec 15, 2011

FIrst of all, my wife lost her wedding ring down the drain while doing dishes many years ago, and I've never really worn mine due to my job. So does that make us pagans?

I don't even see the what your point is here anyway. Maybe if you could show me that owning the thing somehow indicates that I'm worshipping some false god I'd throw it away, but the fact is that you're not even claiming such. Who cares what pagans believed about rings or marriage? It's irrelevent. It would be one thing if you could show me that owning a ring shows my allegiance to the antichrist, such as putting in an evergreen in one's home on Dec. 25, but there is no such evidence. If you have any I'll gladly throw the ring away.

SealedEternal

aspen · Dec 15, 2011

My point is that most of the traditions we enjoy and attribute Christian meaning to have some sort of Pagan background - the Cross certainly does! So who cares! Am I worshiping a Nordic God because I have a Christmas tree in my house? No! Are you worshiping the Sun and Moon by wearing a wedding ring? No!

My point is that God created the world and everything in it - there is nothing wrong with reclaiming any symbol we choose to reclaim for Him.

Selene · Dec 15, 2011

SealedEternal said:
But you forgot to define the second half of the term which is "mass":

The World Book Encyclopedia defines "Christmas" as follows: "The word Christmas comes from "Cristes Maesse", an early English phrase that means "Mass of Christ." The word "Mass" in religious usage means a "death sacrifice." The impact of this fact is horrifying and shocking; for when the millions of people are saying, "Merry Christmas", they are literally saying "Merry death of Christ!" Furthermore, when the fat man in the red suit laughs boisterously and says, "Ho ho ho, Merry Christmas", he is mocking and laughing at the suffering and bleeding Saviour, who died for our sins.

In page 537 of the Catholic Encyclopedia, it says, "In the Christian law, the supreme sacrifice is that of the Mass." It goes on to say, "The supreme act of worship consists essentially in an offering of a worthy victim to God, the offering made by a proper person, as a priest, the destruction of the victim." Please note carefully the word, "victim" of the Mass. The Latin word for victim is "Hostia" from which the word "host" is derived. The Mass, by definition of those who coined the word, is a sacrifice involving a victim. There is no other meaning for the word "Mass" or "Christ-Mass."

In essence, the Mass is the ceremonial slaying of Jesus Christ over and over again, followed by the eating of his flesh and the drinking of his blood. The Mass is the death sacrifice, and the "Host" is the victim. This is official Roman Catholic doctrine, and "Christmas" is a word that they invented. I must ask you all, what is so merry about the pain, bleeding, suffering and death of Jesus Christ?

SealedEternal

Actually, it was Christ who commanded that we celebrate the Mass in memory of Him. So, the Mass is celebrated almost everyday in memory of Him because this is what He commanded and what He wanted. Also, you misunderstand Catholic doctrine. The Mass does not mean that Christ was killed over and over and over. Christ died only once.

The Mass is celebrated in the same way as the Jewish Passover. When the Jews celebrate a very important event such as the Passover, they celebrate it in a way in which time no longer exists so that those living today would actually recall the Passover as though they were there at that time thousands of years ago. It is the same with the Mass.

Vashti · Dec 16, 2011

Selene said:
Actually, it was Christ who commanded that we celebrate the Mass in memory of Him. So, the Mass is celebrated almost everyday in memory of Him because this is what He commanded and what He wanted. Also, you misunderstand Catholic doctrine. The Mass does not mean that Christ was killed over and over and over. Christ died only once.

The Mass is celebrated in the same way as the Jewish Passover. When the Jews celebrate a very important event such as the Passover, they celebrate it in a way in which time no longer exists so that those living today would actually recall the Passover as though they were there at that time thousands of years ago. It is the same with the Mass.

But you're wrong - Catholic Mass, and the Jewish passover, are two different ceremonies. Read catechisms and Bibles and do not tell nonsenses.

Selene · Dec 16, 2011

Vashti said:
But you're wrong - Catholic Mass, and the Jewish passover, are two different ceremonies. Read catechisms and Bibles and do not tell nonsenses.

Christians and Jews both celebrate the Passover. For Jews, it is the Passover of history, tending toward the future; for Christians, it is the Passover fulfilled in the death and Resurrection of Christ.

Luke 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake [it], and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

aspen · Dec 16, 2011

Selene said:
Christians and Jews both celebrate the Passover. For Jews, it is the Passover of history, tending toward the future; for Christians, it is the Passover fulfilled in the death and Resurrection of Christ.

Luke 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake [it], and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

Nicely stated!

Vashti · Dec 16, 2011

Selene said:
Christians and Jews both celebrate the Passover. For Jews, it is the Passover of history, tending toward the future; for Christians, it is the Passover fulfilled in the death and Resurrection of Christ.

Luke 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake [it], and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

Catholics are not doing this in remembrance, but teach that every time Lord descends from heaven and turns into a piece of cake with the soul, flesh and blood ...

And here's a sinner in a cassock dares say that keeps the paws of the Lord Jesus .... terrible.

Selene · Dec 16, 2011

Vashti said:
Catholics are not doing this in remembrance, but teach that every time Lord descends from heaven and turns into a piece of cake with the soul, flesh and blood ...

And here's a sinner in a cassock dares say that keeps the paws of the Lord Jesus .... terrible.

They are doing it in remembrance, and we believe every word Jesus said when he stated "This is my body" and "This is my blood". Jesus did not lie when He said "This is my body" and "This is my blood." Christ instituted this sacrameent because He wanted us to be one with Him (See John 17:21) just as He became one with the human race when He became incarnated as man. When Catholics celebrate the Mass, we became one with Christ. The blood of Christ flows in our veins.

Vashti · Dec 16, 2011

Selene said:
They are doing it in remembrance, and we believe every word Jesus said when he stated "This is my body" and "This is my blood". Jesus did not lie when He said "This is my body" and "This is my blood." Christ instituted this sacrameent because He wanted us to be one with Him (See John 17:21) just as He became one with the human race when He became incarnated as man. When Catholics celebrate the Mass, we became one with Christ. The blood of Christ flows in our veins.

Mt 24:23 esv "(23) Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There he is!' do not believe it."

And stop talking that the Catholic Mass is the same as the Jewish passover.. because you cultivate cannibalism ...

Selene · Dec 16, 2011

Vashti said:
Mt 24:23 esv "(23) Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There he is!' do not believe it."

And stop talking that the Catholic Mass is the same as the Jewish passover..

What has this biblical scripture have to do with Christ saying "This is my body" and "This is my blood?" Are you saying that Christ was lying when He stated that? And why would you want to stop me from saying anything? Do you live in a country that does not allow freedom of expression?

Vashti · Dec 16, 2011

Selene said:
What has this biblical scripture have to do with Christ saying "This is my body" and "This is my blood?" Are you saying that Christ was lying when He stated that? And why would you want to stop me from saying anything? Do you live in a country that does not allow freedom of expression?

And what are you saying ? The Lord had in hand their own body?
Apostles of the Lord explained the His science.

Łk 22:19 esv "(19) And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.""

1Kor 11:23-26 esv "(23) For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, (24) and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, "This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me." (25) In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me." (26) For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes."

Selene · Dec 16, 2011

Vashti said:
And what are you saying ? The Lord had in hand their own body?
Apostles of the Lord explained the His science.

Łk 22:19 esv "(19) And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.""

1Kor 11:23-26 esv "(23) For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, (24) and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, "This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me." (25) In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me." (26) For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes."

Do you always answer a question with a question? Why can't you simply answer a question? Well, to answer your question, when Jesus held the bread and said "This is my body", yes, we believe Him because we know that He doesn't lie, and we also know that with God nothing is impossible. We know that God does not do things according to human logic and understanding and we know that Jesus (who is God) can accomplish things that we don't understand. He can do the impossible. So, yes, when Jesus said, "This is my body" we believe Him. We don't rely on human logic to understand. We only need to trust God.

Vashti · Dec 16, 2011

Selene said:
Do you always answer a question with a question? Why can't you simply answer a question?

Do not yet you read any answer to your question?

Lord also said that He is the vine and we are the branches of - are you believe that you are branch of? Well, I pity ...

Selene · Dec 16, 2011

Vashti said:
Do not yet you read any answer to your question?

Lord also said that He is the vine and we are the branches of - are you believe that you are branch of? Well, I pity ...

The vine is the wine. And in the last supper, Christ held out the wine and said, "This is my blood." Anyone who drinks from my blood will have eternal life. We are the branches of the vine because we drank His blood and His blood flows in our veins.

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

As you can see the vine and branch become one. Thus, we also become one with Christ in the celebration of the Eucharist just as Christ became one with us when He was incarnated in the human form. Christ abideth in us because His body and blood is in us.

And you still did not answer my question. Do you think Christ was lying when He stated, "This is my body" and "This is my blood" ?

Should Christians Celebrate Christmas?

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