Spotting Heretics

Birds beware , we got us MOTHZILLA in the northwest . This thing is huge .

Behold said:

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Heretics, wherever they are found... should be taken seriously as being deceived by the Devil.

Spotting them is very easy.
As.....Every Heretic will believe that they can lose their salvation, as that is THE deception that is found in them all.
Some have really crazy Theology, but, the one common denominator is that they do not believe that Jesus or God = keeps them saved.

So, reader, when you dont believe that Jesus keeps you saved, HIMSELF< or GOD, HIMSELF< then what is left for you to believe that gets you into heaven?
What is it?

THINK !!!!!

Its YOURSELF.....trying to do something.... And that can be..."im holding unto my faith".. or "im keeping commandments", or
"I joined the one true Church".... Or..."im enduring to the end". "My salvation is all about ME ME ME ME doing something, vs, only trusting in Christ to get me to heaven" = which is the REAL FAITH.

See all that? ??
That is YOU Trusting YOU....as you dont TRUST CHRIST or God To get you into heaven, if you are a heretic.
What does that literally mean?
It means your faith is wrong, or broken. And Paul says you are "fallen from GRACE"<... "bewitched"...and "In the Flesh".
It means that Jesus is off the Cross, and YOU are up there on it, as your FAITH.

So, what is the worst thing about heretics as found on a Forum?
Its the fact that they can ruin your faith for life, and most especially the faith of a New Christian.
"christian" forums are deadly regarding a New Believer's Faith.
And that, is the one thing that the Devil wants..
He wants a new Christian to be FAITH DESTROYED, and then their entire life is nothing but nothing for God.

See, if you have a head full of theology and can teach it, then that is actually harmful unless what you teach is based on your correct understanding of the Grace of God as the BLOOD ATONEMENT, that is the foundation of your FAITH.
And when you are trying to keep yourself SAVED, and trying not to go to hell, then that is THE proof that you have no real faith in Christ.
Its gone, or was never there to begin with.

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Of course others are heretics but you aren't.....isn't that true?

Illuminator said:

Truth is as natural to our minds as oxygen is to our lungs and food is to our digestive system. It is a great mistake to regard the teaching of truth as an imposition. The Church does not, nor can she, “impose” truth. Rather, she endeavors to propose truths to those who are disposed to receive them. The Vatican’s Declaration of Religious Liberty states that, “The truth cannot impose itself except by virtue of its own truth, as it wins over the mind with gentleness and power.

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What you have written is true in part. The true part is that truth cannot be imposed. However, to present such a concept as this as an historical philosophical teaching of catholicism is nonsense, and a classic example of the twisting and misrepresentation of history you accuse others of.
The erroneous part of your little angry retort is your idea that truth is a natural and readily accepted component to our everyday living, like oxygen and food. The only readily acceptable concepts agreeable to fallen man are those lies and deceptions which stroke his ego and pride. The very first work the gospel must do in any person is to lay his pride in the dust, so that his mind will accept the grace of God's salvation without attempting to earn it. One of the greatest testimonies against your idea of readily receivable truth is the vast numbers in your own church who are so readily deceived by the lies and sophistries of the false apparitions of so called Mary, and the resulting 2 billion cult following she has. I detailed some of those lying beliefs above, and noted the lack of response.

Ferris Bueller said:

What lunacy, lol!

The work of the cross is the ONLY thing I accept as payment for my sin!
Forgiveness through the blood shed on the cross is the ONLY way to secure the righteousness that delivers from death.
You can not work off your sin debt. The only thing you can do is have it forgiven. That's what makes justification/salvation a matter of grace, not works. You can't do the work required to earn a declaration of righteousness. You can ONLY get it by having it given to you as a free gift of God's grace. This teaching, right out of the pages of the Bible, is completely alien to the Catholic's meritorious works mindset. That is why the Catholic church had to be abandoned by the people of God.

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The teaching of the cross in your view is an understanding of Jesus' Sacrifice and the salvific meaning of Jesus suffering. The Cross Paul taught us includes our sacrifice and the salvific meaning of our suffering. Paul was very clear that his suffering had salvific meaning and necessary for the Church.
Paul preaches a Cross of power..A cross that members of His Body suffer with Him and united to Him our suffering like His is redemptive. The Cross you teach is limited to it being a gift we receive from Christ.bYou are silent about the Cross in regards of the redemptive value of Christian suffering to build the Church. That means the Cross you teach doesn't include the redemptive value of our suffering , thus also denied is the value of martyrdom. If your understanding were true the blood of martyrs would not result in growth for the Church. The Cross you teach is drained of it's power, thus our suffering as Christians is not a participation in the Cross of Christ but an outward symbol. That isn't the Cross taught by the Apostles.

EloyCraft said:

The teaching of the cross in your view is an understanding of Jesus' Sacrifice and the salvific meaning of Jesus suffering. The Cross Paul taught us includes our sacrifice and the salvific meaning of our suffering. Paul was very clear that his suffering had salvific meaning and necessary for the Church.
Paul preaches a Cross of power..A cross that members of His Body suffer with Him and united to Him our suffering like His is redemptive. The Cross you teach is limited to it being a gift we receive from Christ.bYou are silent about the Cross in regards of the redemptive value of Christian suffering to build the Church. That means the Cross you teach doesn't include the redemptive value of our suffering , thus also denied is the value of martyrdom. If your understanding were true the blood of martyrs would not result in growth for the Church. The Cross you teach is drained of it's power, thus our suffering as Christians is not a participation in the Cross of Christ but an outward symbol. That isn't the Cross taught by the Apostles.

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Any outward physical suffering of the Christian will not and cannot be meet with joy and peace in the presence of the holy Spirit without first dying to self spiritually. The real suffering that Paul y'all's about that is redemptive is the denial... Life long denial... Of the will of the old carnal nature which constantly seeks out attention and recognition. But that old man died with Christ... And the new man rose with Him. Of we meet with persecution... Whether mental or physical... Or attitude I'm going through that is a reflection of how we dealt with the old nature and whether we are truly walking in the flesh, or in the spirit. It's all about character and attitude... That's why we need to suffer, putting down the appetites and lusts and of the flesh... That hurts... And that's redemptive.

If we think in terms of penal substitution ie Jesus death was direct punishment from God for us. This view assumes death is an arbitrary punishment inflicted.
If on the other hand we see the death of Jesus as the result of God allowing us to kill him because that was what was in us , we have revealed to the whole Universe the true/real nature of God......the God which John tells us is one of love.

God had never been placed into a position of this nature....ever. The all powerful God condescending to become a creature and then allowing his creatures to brutalise him to the point of death......and all he could do was forgive them.

Satans claim that God is selfish his hereby debunked for all eternity and man's salvation assured.

Marymog said:

They never said they were speaking figuratively. You are saying that.

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And they never said anything about having faith that the wine and the bread turn into the body and blood of Jesus. But feel free to share that chapter and verse if I missed it.

We KNOW Jesus was speaking figuratively because all you have to do is look down into the cup this Sunday and see that Jesus was speaking figuratively. And there is no scripture that says what you Catholics claim happens to the elements.

Marymog said:

Maybe when the Spirit of the Lord carried Philip away (vs39) right in front of his eyes he knew Philip was "speaking the truth to him"? Wouldn't that make you believe also Ferris?

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He believed before Philip was raptured.

See, what you Catholics can't comprehend is the power of God within a person to convict and convince them of the truth. You are told you have a clergy to do that for you. And so Catholics blindly follow every ridiculous doctrine that comes down the pike from them.

Marymog said:

Jesus said the bread/wine IS his body/blood. You say it isn't. He NEVER said it was a figure or a symbol.

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Just look down at the elements this Sunday and you'll see for yourself that he was speaking figuratively. And remember that there is no passage of scripture that says by faith we believe that they mystically change into human flesh and blood. I'm directly challenging you on this.

Marymog said:

You say it is. AND he said HE is the bread that came down from heaven that we MUST eat. You say we can't eat Him, we can only read His word and that equals eating him.

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You have him in you via the Holy Spirit.
The agent of faith is the Holy Spirit. When you hear the word of God that word is inside of you by the Holy Spirit. That is how you are one in union with Christ and his body - by the Holy Spirit.

Marymog said:

There are no early Christian writings supporting what your men have taught you.

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My men wrote the earliest Christian writings. And I know they were speaking figuratively of the flesh and blood of Jesus by the simple fact that THE WINE AND BREAD ISN'T FLESH AND BLOOD. Anybody can prove this for themselves.

Marymog said:

ALL of the early Christian writings that we have attest that the ancient Christians believed/taught/practiced etc. that the bread/wine IS His body/blood.....Just like He and Paul said it was. Even pagan writings from 120AD attest to the FACT that is what Christianity taught/practiced/believed. There are writings from 100AD that attest to this. That means for the first 110 years AFTER the death of Christ, Christians believed Him when he said it IS his body/blood.

It was not until 1,500 years AFTER the death of Christ that your false doctrine began. It became more popular during the Protestant Revolution that divided Christianity.

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No, YOUR MEN believed that, not mine. I know that because my men are the original authors, and I know they were speaking figuratively by simply looking at and tasting the elements.

It doesn't matter how soon after the original authors that error crept into the churches. It's still error. Close proximity to the original authors doesn't automatically equate to truth as you are claiming. Paul warned the Ephesians that error was right on his heels. So closeness of time to the Apostles means NOTHING when it comes to whether or not something is truth or not.

Marymog said:

It was not until 1,500 years AFTER the death of Christ that your false doctrine began. It became more popular during the Protestant Revolution that divided Christianity.

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You mean that time when rational men were realizing the church has been believing a bunch of lies?

Marymog said:

DIVISION is OPPOSITE of what Jesus prayed for: That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

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Ideally, error is to be divided out of the church. But when the whole church becomes corrupt one must divide themselves from the church. And that is exactly what finally happened. And thank God for it!

EloyCraft said:

The Cross Paul taught us includes our sacrifice and the salvific meaning of our suffering.

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No, your suffering does not pay for your sins. If it did, Christ died for NOTHING.

EloyCraft said:

Paul was very clear that his suffering had salvific meaning

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Show me where it says Paul's suffering pays for the sins of people.

EloyCraft said:

Paul preaches a Cross of power..A cross that members of His Body suffer with Him and united to Him our suffering like His is redemptive.

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No, the only blood that has redemptive power is Christ's blood. Your blood and mine could not redeem a flea. It's worthless toward that end. That's why God had to provide the pure blood of Jesus to redeem mankind.

EloyCraft said:

The Cross you teach is limited to it being a gift we receive from Christ.

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How does saying the cross gives us everything limiting it? Limiting it to what, lol? I mean, it gives us everything, so what constitutes the limited part?

EloyCraft said:

You are silent about the Cross in regards of the redemptive value of Christian suffering to build the Church. That means the Cross you teach doesn't include the redemptive value of our suffering , thus also denied is the value of martyrdom.

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The point is, martyrdom does not redeem you. It has it's value, but not towards redeeming your soul. Only the blood of Christ can do that. If that were not true God would not have needed to send Jesus as the payment of sin for the whole world.

This kind of teaching is exactly why it was important for the people of God to remove themselves from the Catholic church.

Ferris Bueller said:

You mean that time when rational men were realizing the church has been believing a bunch of lies?

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Hmmmm......you mean the same "rational men" who disagreed not only with The Church but disagreed with each other? That's pretty rational.....

Ferris Bueller said:

Ideally, error is to be divided out of the church. But when the whole church becomes corrupt one must divide themselves from the church. And that is exactly what finally happened. And thank God for it!

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Yup, error is to be divided out of The Church. The Church then still remains. During the Protestant Revolution, of which you thank God for, divided out of The Church and started another Church claiming they had the truth. Men from that Church divided out of that Church claiming they had the truth. Men from that Church then divided out of that Church claiming they had the truth etc. etc until today where we have thouasands of different churches all claiming to have the truth. And you thank God for that confusion? Weird....I don't think God was responsible for that. False teachers who tickled the ears of men are responsible for that....Not God!