Some help on "JOB"

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Wayne

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I read through Job and I had a little hard to understand some of it was saying. I was hopping maybe with a few of you guys if we could take each chapter and break it down. So, I can maybe understand it a lot better. I do plan to read through it again.
 

HammerStone

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It can actually be an interesting read because you're going to hear every excuse and reason that's just recycled in modern Christianity. It's many chapters of three guys simply shooting from the hip on religion.

Nomad is perfectly qualified to help you but I am sure myself and others will be here for input as well. Who knows, maybe a full-on study will result from this?
 

brionne

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Hi Wayne,
Job was written by Moses as a remembrance of Job and as an answer to two important questions: Why do the innocent suffer? And Why does God permit wickedness in the earth?

The ancient Hebrew nation regarded Job as a real person. The Christian writer James points to Job’s example of endurance. (James 5:11) Only a true-life example, not a fictitious one, would carry weight, convincing worshipers of God that integrity can be maintained under all circumstances.

Job 1:1-5 introduces us to Job, a man “blameless and upright, and fearing God and turning aside from bad.” He has a large family, is a materially rich landholder with numerous flocks and herds. He is also rich spiritually, rich in good works, willing at all times to help someone afflicted or in distress (Job 29:12-16; 31:19, 20) All people respect him. Job is not an Isrealite, He lived long before Isreal was a nation, but he worships the God of the Patriarchs, YHWY/Yahweh/Jehovah. He serves as priest for his family, offering up burnt sacrifices regularly, in case they have sinned. Job has a good relationship with God and is blessed.

Now Satan enters the picture and he challenges God Job 1:6 Job 2:13. We can get a view of the heavens with God presiding over an assembly of the angle where Satan also appears among them. Before the assembly, Satan challenges Job’s integrity, accusing Job only serving God for the material benefits. Satan says that if God took away all his wealth, Job would turn away from God. This Satan has challenged all mankind...our integrity and our motives for serving God were brought into question. This is a universal issue and its why God has allowed Satan time on earth to try and prove his claim.

Many calamities start to befall poor old Job. Raids by Sabeans and Chaldeans remove his great riches. A storm kills his sons and daughters. But even under this severe test, Job does not curse God as Satan claimed he would. nor does he turn away from God. Rather, he continues to bless God Job 1:21.
Satan, is not happy at this and so he challenges God and Job again.....he appears again before God and says: “Skin in behalf of skin, and everything that a man has he will give in behalf of his soul.” (Job 2:4) He now claims that if he was permitted to touch Job’s body, he could make Job curse God to his face. So with permission to do everything short of taking Job’s life, Satan strikes Job with a dreadful disease. His flesh becomes “clothed with maggots and lumps of dust,” and his body and breath become foul-smelling to his wife and relatives. (Job 7:5; Job 19:13-20) Indicating that Job has not broken his integrity, his wife urges him: “Are you yet holding fast your integrity? Curse God and die!” Job rebukes her and does not “sin with his lips.”—Job 2:9, 10.

Job is still faithful, Satan has been proved wrong again, but Satan has not finished with Job...now he sends 3 acquaintances to Job. They are Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar. Eliphaz accuses Job of lacking integrity. The upright have never perished, he declares. He recalls a night vision in which a voice told him that God has no faith in his servants, especially those of mere clay, the dust of the earth. He indicates that Job’s suffering is a discipline from Almighty God. But Job knows that he has been faithful.

the first 30 chapters is the dialogue between Job and these 3 men who are accusing Job of being wicked and they begin to wear Job down and rather then comfort him, they become angry at him for not admitting that he has been unrighteous. They say that only unrighteous people suffer at Gods hand, and they continue to accuse God of being the cause of Jobs suffering but he continues to refuse their accusation and declares his own righteousness. This is where a new character enters the picture...it is a relative of Abraham. His name is Elihu (Job 32:1–37:24). He sets a few matters straight, he expresses his anger at Job for “declaring his own soul righteous rather than God,” but it gets even hotter at Job’s three companions for their deplorable lack of wisdom in pronouncing God wicked. He points out that Job has been more concerned with his own vindication than with God’s. It was not necessary for God to answer all of Job’s words, as if He had to justify His actions, and yet Job had contended against God. However, as Job’s soul draws close to death, God favors him with a messenger, saying: “Let him off from going down into the pit! I have found a ransom! Let his flesh become fresher than in youth; let him return to the days of his youthful vigor.” (Job 33:24, 25) The righteous will be restored!

Now from Job 38:1 to Job 42:6 God himself answers Job. He presents Job with a series of questions that are in themselves an object lesson in man’s littleness and God’s greatness. “Where did you happen to be when I founded the earth? Job cannot answer but he humbly admits: “Look! I have become of little account. What shall I reply to you? My hand I have put over my mouth.” Job 40:4
God next charges Eliphaz and his two companions with not speaking truthful things about Him. They must provide sacrifices and have Job pray for them. After this, Jehovah turns back the captive condition of Job, blessing him in double amount. His brothers, sisters, and former friends return to him with gifts, and he is blessed with twice as many sheep, camels, cattle, and she-asses as previously. He again has ten children, his three daughters being the prettiest women in all the land. His life is miraculously extended by 140 years, so that he comes to see four generations of his offspring. He dies “old and satisfied with days.” Job 42:17.
 

rockytopva

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I read through Job and I had a little hard to understand some of it was saying. I was hopping maybe with a few of you guys if we could take each chapter and break it down. So, I can maybe understand it a lot better. I do plan to read through it again.

Wayne, I see Job going through his trials and three church guys trying to stick the label of iniquity on him. Job is like,... No way!
 

JohnDB

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The Devil one day says to God," Wanna make a bet?"

God says, "Sure, I'll take your money"

Devil says, "I bet I can make your best guy curse you and then you will have to kill him"

God says, "No Way! I got an ace in the hole on this one...I got Job"

Devil says, "Your On!"

So all kinds of bad stuff befalls ol Job, He loses all his kids and stuff and all of his wives except for the one who thinks his breath stinks. She tells him to curse God and die so that she can be free and he can be out of his misery.

Then some "friends" come by and begin to say, "Its all your fault...you did something for God to punish you this way"

Job says, "nope"

They say you did this, you did that, you did the other.

Job says "Nope"

They say that he was neglectful in keeping sin out of his household.

Job says "nope"

Then the youngest of them says that he did something backhandedly.

Job says, "Nope"

They say that surely he did something to cause God to punish him cause God won't punish the innocent.

God then shows up. Job, even though he is a really good, kind, and gentle man sees how good God is and then despises himself.

God then tells Job that he needs some better friends but that if he, himself asks he will forgive them for being such jerks and blasphemous. .

Job then gets back all his own stuff and twice the family and stuff as he had before.
 

Nomad

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Wayne,

I won't comment on every verse in a section. I'll touch on those that seem to require a bit of explanation. If I miss something of interest to you, just let me know and I'll go back and touch on it. Before moving on to another chapter I'll give enough time for those who want to participate to ask questions or make comments.

Outline - Job 1

The history of Job begins here with an account,

I. Of his great piety in general (Job_1:1), and in a particular instance (Job_1:5).

II. Of his great prosperity (Job_1:2-4).

III. Of the malice of Satan against him, and the permission he obtained to try his faithfulness (Job_1:6-12).

IV. Of the surprising troubles that befel him, the ruin of his estate (Job_1:13-17), and the death of his children (Job_1:18, Job_1:19).

V. Of his exemplary patience and piety under these troubles (Job_1:20-22).

In all this he is set forth for an example of suffering affliction, from which no prosperity can secure us, but through which integrity and uprightness will preserve us. - Matthew Henry

Job 1:1 There was a man in the land of Uz whose name was Job, and that man was blameless and upright, one who feared God and turned away from evil.
Job 1:2 There were born to him seven sons and three daughters.
Job 1:3 He possessed 7,000 sheep, 3,000 camels, 500 yoke of oxen, and 500 female donkeys, and very many servants, so that this man was the greatest of all the people of the east.
Job 1:4 His sons used to go and hold a feast in the house of each one on his day, and they would send and invite their three sisters to eat and drink with them.
Job 1:5 And when the days of the feast had run their course, Job would send and consecrate them, and he would rise early in the morning and offer burnt offerings according to the number of them all. For Job said, "It may be that my children have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts."


Verse 5:

This verse gives a good indication that Job lived before the time of Israel and Moses. Before Moses, the father of the family was the priest, who alone was authorized to offer sacrifice on behalf of his family. We see this throughout Genesis. After Moses, sacrifices were to be offered by the Aaronic priesthood.

After this cycle of feasting was over, Job would summon his children to come to him. He would then offer a sacrifice for each of his children in case they had dishonored God in some way during their feasting.

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them.
Job 1:7 The LORD said to Satan, "From where have you come?" Satan answered the LORD and said, "From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it."
Job 1:8 And the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil?"
Job 1:9 Then Satan answered the LORD and said, "Does Job fear God for no reason?
Job 1:10 Have you not put a hedge around him and his house and all that he has, on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land.
Job 1:11 But stretch out your hand and touch all that he has, and he will curse you to your face."

Job 1:12 And the LORD said to Satan, "Behold, all that he has is in your hand. Only against him do not stretch out your hand." So Satan went out from the presence of the LORD.

Verse 6:

The "sons of God" are generally understood here as angels. Job 38 speaks of the time of Earth's creation when the "sons of God" shouted for joy.

Job 38:7 when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Notice how Satan appears with the sons of God to give an account of his doings.

Verse 7:

Satan reports that he has been going back and forth throughout the Earth. I believe the Apostle Peter gives us an indication of what Satan was doing.

1Pe 5:8 Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.

Verses 8, 9, 10, 11:

God holds Job up to Satan as an example of a faithful servant and asks if he has "considered" him. Many commentaries remark here that the words translated "consider" literally means to set your heart on something. It means in this case that Satan had his heart set on doing some harm to Job. We have a NT example of this.

Luk 22:31 "Simon, Simon, behold, Satan demanded to have you, that he might sift you like wheat,

Satan makes the accusation that Job is faithful only because God has blessed him with many blessings. Satan suggests that Job's attitude would be much different in God took away all that he had given him. We see here Satan living up to the meaning of his name. "Satan" means "adversary" and comes from a verb that means "to lie in wait."

God gives Satan the permission to test his theory.

Job 1:13 Now there was a day when his sons and daughters were eating and drinking wine in their oldest brother's house,
Job 1:14 and there came a messenger to Job and said, "The oxen were plowing and the donkeys feeding beside them,
Job 1:15 and the Sabeans fell upon them and took them and struck down the servants with the edge of the sword, and I alone have escaped to tell you."
Job 1:16 While he was yet speaking, there came another and said, "The fire of God fell from heaven and burned up the sheep and the servants and consumed them, and I alone have escaped to tell you."
Job 1:17 While he was yet speaking, there came another and said, "The Chaldeans formed three groups and made a raid on the camels and took them and struck down the servants with the edge of the sword, and I alone have escaped to tell you."
Job 1:18 While he was yet speaking, there came another and said, "Your sons and daughters were eating and drinking wine in their oldest brother's house,
Job 1:19 and behold, a great wind came across the wilderness and struck the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young people, and they are dead, and I alone have escaped to tell you."


Verses 13 - 19:

Satan orchestrates events that lead to Job losing his servants, livestock, and children.

Job 1:20 Then Job arose and tore his robe and shaved his head and fell on the ground and worshiped.
Job 1:21 And he said, "Naked I came from my mother's womb, and naked shall I return. The LORD gave, and the LORD has taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD."
Job 1:22 In all this Job did not sin or charge God with wrong.


Verses 20 - 22:

This certainly isn't how Satan thought Job would react to these tragedies. Instead of cursing God, as Satan had thought, Job falls down and worships God. Job realized that all he had came from God as a gift that could be taken away at any time if God so desires. Job remains faithful to God and does not accuse God of any wrongdoing.
 

Wayne

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Doesn't God tell us not to gamble? When Satan challenge God on Job wouldn't that count as gambling?
 

Nomad

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No, there's nothing like gambling here. Satan actually believed that Job would be a faithful servant only for as long as God blessed him. Satan was sure that Job would curse God as soon as bad things started to happen. Satan and his minions still work that way today.
 

Nomad

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No, God is omniscient (all knowing). He knew what would happen ultimately. God does exercise our faith though. Our faith can grow as we experience hard times.

Jas 1:2 Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds,
Jas 1:3 for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness.
Jas 1:4 And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.

1Pe 1:6 In this you rejoice, though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been grieved by various trials,
1Pe 1:7 so that the tested genuineness of your faith--more precious than gold that perishes though it is tested by fire--may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ.
 

Wayne

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I don't see why it still seem wrong to me?

I get the point of the story but I don't see how could be right for God to do something like that?
 

brionne

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I don't see why it still seem wrong to me?

I get the point of the story but I don't see how could be right for God to do something like that?

Imagine if someone went to the police and filed a charge of assault against you. You dont even know the charge has been filed. How would you feel if the court decided in favor of the plaintiff without even hearing your side of the argument? Imagine if the police arrived and sent you to jail because you had been charged as guilty... would that be right?


Now in the case of Job, Satan accused Job of serving God for selfish reasons. God could have judged Job guilty instantly, but as a righteous judge, he allowed Satans accusation to go to trial. Satans accusation was that Job was selfish and he only worshiped God because of his material wealth... so only by taking away those things could Jobs motives be established. It was as if Job had been put in the holding dock while the case was being presented. Satan was trying to get the evidence he needed to be proved right...but of course he failed to produce the evidence to convict Job of the false accusation.


God allowed this to happen, but you must remember that God was not the one who inflicted Job with losses....that was all Satans doing. In fact, Satan told God to be the one to take away all of Jobs material possessions, but God refused to do that to Job.
 

Wayne

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Yes. Seem like was God taking gamble and he knew what was going to happen. Feel like God was getting temped by Satan and God say you were on.

Yes. Seem like was God taking gamble and he knew what was going to happen. Feel like God was getting temped by Satan and God say you were on.


I think I been over looking something. I think even if you the most faith person life you are till going to run into the temptation or stuff like that.
 

Nomad

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Outline - Job 2

I. Satan moves for another trial, which should touch his bone and his flesh (Job_2:1-5).

II. God, for holy ends, permits it (Job_2:6).

III. Satan smites him with a very painful and loathsome disease (Job_2:7, Job_2:8).

IV. His wife tempts him to curse God, but he resists the temptation (Job_2:9, Job_2:10).

V. His friends come to condole with him and to comfort him (Job_2:11-13). And in this that good man is set forth for an example of suffering affliction and of patience. - Matthew Henry


Job 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them to present himself before the LORD.
Job 2:2 And the LORD said to Satan, "From where have you come?" Satan answered the LORD and said, "From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it."
Job 2:3 And the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil? He still holds fast his integrity, although you incited me against him to destroy him without reason."
Job 2:4 Then Satan answered the LORD and said, "Skin for skin! All that a man has he will give for his life.
Job 2:5 But stretch out your hand and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse you to your face."


Verses 4 & 5:

Satan complains that taking away all that Job had just wasn't enough. He now suggests that a physical affliction would certainly do the job.

Job 2:6 And the LORD said to Satan, "Behold, he is in your hand; only spare his life."
Job 2:7 So Satan went out from the presence of the LORD and struck Job with loathsome sores from the sole of his foot to the crown of his head.
Job 2:8 And he took a piece of broken pottery with which to scrape himself while he sat in the ashes.
Job 2:9 Then his wife said to him, "Do you still hold fast your integrity? Curse God and die."
Job 2:10 But he said to her, "You speak as one of the foolish women would speak. Shall we receive good from God, and shall we not receive evil?" In all this Job did not sin with his lips.


Verse 7:

Job's affliction sounds like one of the plagues that God inflicted on the Egyptians.

Exo 9:10 So they took soot from the kiln and stood before Pharaoh. And Moses threw it in the air, and it became boils breaking out in sores on man and beast.

Verse 8:

Some think Job may have used the broken pottery to alleviate itching. Others think it was to scrape away filth accumulated by his sores. I would lean toward this second theory based on what Job says in the 7th chapter.

Job 7:5 My flesh is clothed with worms and dirt; my skin hardens, then breaks out afresh.

Job then sits down in ashes which in the East would be a sign of mourning. Another example of this can be seen in Jonah.

Jon 3:6 The word reached the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne, removed his robe, covered himself with sackcloth, and sat in ashes.

Verses 9 & 10:

Job's wife finds it unbelievable that Job remains faithful after all he has suffered. She tells him to curse God and die. Job reminds his wife that both good and bad are ultimately from God and we must accept both.

Isa 45:7 I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the LORD, who does all these things.

No bad thing can happen to you unless God permits it to be so. When we do suffer various trials we can rest assured that God has a purpose for it, even if we're never made aware of that purpose. The entire time that Job suffered, he was not aware of what was going on between God and Satan or how much glory he was bringing to God.

Job 2:11 Now when Job's three friends heard of all this evil that had come upon him, they came each from his own place, Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite, and Zophar the Naamathite. They made an appointment together to come to show him sympathy and comfort him.
Job 2:12 And when they saw him from a distance, they did not recognize him. And they raised their voices and wept, and they tore their robes and sprinkled dust on their heads toward heaven.
Job 2:13 And they sat with him on the ground seven days and seven nights, and no one spoke a word to him, for they saw that his suffering was very great.


There's not much to say here. Job's friends come to give Job comfort and are shocked at what they find.
 

Nomad

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Wayne,

Let me know if you're still interested in this study. If you are I will gladly continue.
 

aspen

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I don't see why it still seem wrong to me?

I get the point of the story but I don't see how could be right for God to do something like that?

JOB is a story about God's sovereignty. It is not a story about God's justice or His mercy - it is simply a story about His omnipotence or power. The moral of the story is God is all powerful and therefore, we can trust Him and place our faith in Him, even when our life goes down the crapper.
 

Wayne

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Nomand I am working on James at moment. If you keep watch on tearing open the bible you can see what I am studding in.

Thanks Aspen.