Truth Be Told

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Netchaplain

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All of the Scriptures that appear to teach that one can become unsaved, which word isn’t actually used, are just suppositions in order to express the impossibility of being saved more than once, enforcing the desire to be saved. If the statements were true, what sense would there be in God saving someone, then eventually become lost. It would be like assuming God didn’t know they would become lost.




Galatians 5:4: “Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.” When we think the Law can save it shows we are not understanding that only Christ saves. The supposition is “that it would be as though you had fallen from grace.”

“Whosoever” does not intend that anyone was justified by the law but that if anyone was (“no man is justified by the law” - Gal 3:11; 2:21), which gives nothing particular, but assumes that if there were such. The passage only shows they were suspected of trusting in the law, shown by Paul’s encouragement that they would not think different from what Paul thought (v 10). Also, if you look at any translation, you will see they interpret this as merely a supposition.

Verse 7 shows they were doing right, but they were considering the law, which temporarily “hindered” their progression in Christianity, and if continued it would cause them not to obey the truth. The text does not say “have not obeyed the truth” but “should not obey,” indicating an indecisiveness in the situation; they were attempting to “persuade” them from the truth (v 8), but the confidence Paul had in them stood firm, that they would “run well” (v 7). This is why Paul encouraged them that they would not think different from what Paul taught them (v 10); and he calls them “brethren” when he tells them they were “called.”

It’s also noteworthy to add that it’s not obedience to any truth that saves, because it’s only faith in Christ that justifies. When God “draws” one to His Son, He knows he’s going to continue “to abide.” He doesn’t draw those whom He knows will choose only to be just nominal (in name only) in their profession of Christ!

John Gill: “Ye are fallen from grace; that is, either from that grace which they professed to have; for there might be some in these churches, as in others, who were only nominal Christians, and formal professors; who had declared they saw themselves lost and undone sinners, destitute of a righteousness, and professed to believe in Christ alone for righteousness and strength, but now trusted in themselves, and in the works of the law: or from the scheme of grace in the whole of man's salvation, which will admit of no mixture of works; either it is one or the other, it cannot be both; wherefore by their taking on the side of works, they showed that they had entirely dropped the scheme of grace: or else from the Gospel of the grace of God, from whence they were removed, through the influence of false teachers; particularly the doctrine of free justification by the grace of God, through the righteousness of Christ; which was entirely set aside by their seeking to be instilled by the works of the law; and from this they might be said to be fallen.”

Albert Barnes: “Ye are fallen from grace - That is, this would amount to apostasy from the religion of the Redeemer, and would be in fact a rejection of the grace of the gospel. That this had ever in fact occurred among true Christians the apostle does not affirm unless he affirmed that people can in fact be justified by the Law, since he makes the falling from grace a consequence of that. But did Paul mean to teach that? Did he mean to affirm that any man in fact had been, or could be justified by his own obedience to the Law? Let his own writings answer; see, especially, Romans 3:20. But unless he held that, then this passage does not prove that anyone who has ever been a true Christian has fallen away. The fair interpretation of the passage does not demand that. Its simple and obvious meaning is, that if a man who has been a professed Christian should be justified by his own conformity to the Law, and adopt that mode of justification, then that would amount to a rejection of the mode of salvation by Christ, and would be a renouncing of the plan of justification by grace. The two systems cannot be united. The adoption of the one is, in fact, a rejection of the other. Christ will be “a whole Savior,” or none. This passage, therefore, cannot be adduced to prove that any true Christian has in fact fallen away from grace, unless it proves also that man may be justified by the deeds of the Law, contrary to the repeated declarations of Paul himself. The word “grace” here, does not mean grace in the sense of personal religion, it means the “system” of salvation by grace, in contradistinction from that by merit or by works.”




Hebrews 6:4-6: “For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost; And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come; If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.”

It would be impossible to “renew them again unto repentance”; and impossible to crucify Christ again! This answers to the supposition, “if they shall fall away.” If God saves someone He will never have to do it again, thus saved is saved!

Albert Barnes: “These passages show that it is not merely a great difficulty to which the apostle refers, but that he meant to say that the thing was wholly impracticable; that it could not be done. And if this be the meaning, then it proves that if those referred to should fall away, they could never be renewed. Their case was hopeless, and they must perish: that is, if a true Christian should apostatize, or fall from grace, “he never could be renewed again,” and could not be saved. Paul did not teach that he might fall away and be renewed again as often as he pleased. He had other views of the grace of God than this; and he meant to teach, that if a man should once cast off true religion, his case was hopeless, and he must perish; and by this solemn consideration - the only one that would be effectual in such a case - he meant to guard them against the danger of apostasy.”

“It is material to remark here that the apostle does not say that any true Christian ever had fallen away. He makes a statement of what would occur on the supposition that such a thing should happen - but a statement may be made of what would occur on the supposition that a certain thing should take place, and yet it be morally certain that the event never would happen. It would be easy to suppose what would happen if the ocean should overflow a continent, or if the sun should cease to rise, and still there be entire certainty that such an event never would occur.”



Hebrews 10:26, 27: “For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins; But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.”

This doesn’t intend that “when we sin,” but that “if we sin willfully.” For all continue to sin, but now, after being saved it is not something done as before, as a lifestyle and without repentance. Believers try to avoid sin as much as possible. If it said “when we sin,” that would make it a possibility of sinning intentionally after being saved, which is not in compliance with one remorseful and repentant.

Verse 32-35 show they were saved (“illuminated”). Verse 35 tells them not to cast their confidence away. Verses 38 and 39 says they are of those who will not “draw back unto perdition” (damnation). If any return to their old ways it manifests they were hypocrites and apostates in their professing Christ.

Albert Barnes: “The sentiment would not be correct if it referred to any but real Christians. It would not be true that one who had been somewhat enlightened, and who then sinned “willfully,” must look on fearfully to the judgment without a possibility of being saved. There are multitudes of cases where such persons are saved. They “willfully” resist the Holy Spirit; they strive against Him; they for a long time refuse to yield, but they are brought again to reflection, and are led to give their hearts to God.”

John Gill: “After that we have received the knowledge of the truth”; either of Jesus Christ, or of the Scriptures, or of the Gospel, or of some particular doctrine, especially the principal one, salvation by Christ; of which there may be a notional knowledge, when there is no experimental knowledge; and which is received not into the heart, but into the head: and whereas the apostle speaks in the first person plural, “we,” this is used not so much with regard to himself, but others; that so what he delivered might come with greater weight upon them, and be more readily received by them; when they observed he entertained no hard thoughts or jealousies of them, which would greatly distress the minds of those that were truly gracious. Moreover, the apostles use this way of speaking, when they do not design themselves at all, but others, under the same visible profession of religion, and who belonged to the same community of believers; Besides, these words are only hypothetical, and do not prove that true believers could, or should, or do sin in this manner: to which may be added, that true believers are manifestly distinguished from these persons.”
 

Wynona

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All of the Scriptures that appear to teach that one can become unsaved, which word isn’t actually used, are just suppositions in order to express the impossibility of being saved more than once, enforcing the desire to be saved. If the statements were true, what sense would there be in God saving someone, then eventually become lost.


Why do we have to use Bible commentators to avoid what is plainly written?

If we would just read the Bible with fresh eyes, like a child, we wouldn't need to avoid what is plainly written.

Romans 11:20-22

20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.


Let's stick with what is written. The Scriptures warned that there would be a falling away from the truth, that in these times men would not endure sound doctrine, and that God would send a strong delusion upon those who do not love the truth.

Do we love the truth today? Lets stick with what is written. No matter what John Gill or Albert Barnes says. We better get it right for ourselves.

Yes, you can lose your salvation. But you don't have to if you let the Scriptures instruct you and ignore the popular beloved teaching of men.
 

Netchaplain

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Why do we have to use Bible commentators to avoid what is plainly written?

If we would just read the Bible with fresh eyes, like a child, we wouldn't need to avoid what is plainly written.

Romans 11:20-22

20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.

Let's stick with what is written. The Scriptures warned that there would be a falling away from the truth, that in these times men would not endure sound doctrine, and that God would send a strong delusion upon those who do not love the truth.

Do we love the truth today? Lets stick with what is written. No matter what John Gill or Albert Barnes says. We better get it right for ourselves.

Yes, you can lose your salvation. But you don't have to if you let the Scriptures instruct you and ignore the popular beloved teaching of men.
Hi and thanks for your reply and comments! I see it that we can settle for the basics, or go on to completion (He 6:1, 2).
It depends how much you want to know about God, for much the Word is deeper than what is generally understood. Not that we want to know more than others, but that we should want to know as much as we can about God.

God's blessings to your Family, and God be blessed!
 

Dropship

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Why do we have to use Bible commentators to avoid what is plainly written?
If we would just read the Bible with fresh eyes, like a child, we wouldn't need to avoid what is plainly written.


Agreed, Jesus said-"You have one teacher, me" (Matthew 23:10)
And he's easy enough to understand..:)
"And the common people heard him gladly" (Mark 12:37)

 
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Dropship

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How can you say you’re saved?


Who me? i'd never be so arrogant and foolish as to assume I'm saved, only God himself knows if we'll shape up on judgement day, the clue is in the name..:)-
Judgement:- a decision of a law court or judge
 

Netchaplain

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Who me? i'd never be so arrogant and foolish as to assume I'm saved, only God himself knows if we'll shape up on judgement day, the clue is in the name..:)-
Judgement:- a decision of a law court or judge
God does want us to know we are His. That is what all the Scriptures are for, to ensure we have the faith for it; and "the Spirit himself bears witnesses with our spirit that we are the children of God (Rom 8:16). Without this reassurance there will be confusion, but yet, you will saved if your faith is in Christ. "That ye may know that ye have eternal life" (1Jo 5:13).
 
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theefaith

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Who me? i'd never be so arrogant and foolish as to assume I'm saved, only God himself knows if we'll shape up on judgement day, the clue is in the name..:)-
Judgement:- a decision of a law court or judge

Matt 24:13 endures to the end.

Mark 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

1. Romans 11:22 – God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness

2. Colossians 1:21-23 – holy and blameless, if you continue in the faith"

3. The race of faith: the example of Paul

4. Hebrews 12:22-25: "we shall not escape if we turn away from Him"

5. Hebrews 4:1-3, 9-12: "strive to enter the rest of God"

6.Hebrews 6:4-9 – those who became partakers of the holy spirit and fell away

7. Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39: "if we sin willfully", "if anyone draws back".

8. Matthew 24:13: He that endures to the end, the same shall be saved

9. Hebrews 3:4-6: Holding fast our confidence firm until the end

10. Matthew 24:13: "But the one who endures to the end will be saved"

11. 1 John 2:24-25 – "if what you heard from the beginning abides in you"

12. 2 John 8-9 : to "everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ

13. 2 Peter 1:5-11 : "Make every effort to supplement your faith"

14. Philippians 2:12-16: "work out your salvation with fear and trembling"

15. 1 Timothy 6:10-16: the love of money

16. Galatians 5:2-4 "Severed from Christ"

17. 2 Timothy 2:11-13: "if we deny him, he will also deny us"

18. James 5:19-20: the wandered brother

19. Some will abandon the faith

20. 1 Timothy 5:8: "he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever"

22. The real family of Jesus: "Those who hear the Word of God and do it"

23. 1 Corinthians 5:5: "so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord"

24. Peter 2: "It would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness"

25. Jude: "Turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness" - a much relevant warning

26. 1 Cor. 9:27 ....Lest I myself might become a castaway

27. Heb 1:14 shall be heirs of salvation

Romans 1:5
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
(Must remain obedient)

(He who endured to the end) one who dies in a state of grace united to Jesus Christ by faith and baptism!
Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 1 pet 3:21
Matt 24:13


Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
 
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Dropship

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(He who endured to the end) one who dies in a state of grace united to Jesus Christ by faith and baptism!

I and many other people haven't been water-baptised so will we be going to hell?
Answers on a postcard please..:)
 

theefaith

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I and many other people haven't been water-baptised so will we be going to hell?
Answers on a postcard please..:)

cannot enter the kingdom without being born again

Jn 3:5 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Mk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
 

Dropship

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I and many other people haven't been water-baptised so will we be going to hell?
Answers on a postcard please..:)
cannot enter the kingdom without being born again
Jn 3:5 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Mk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.


If water-baptism makes people feel good that's great as long as they remember it doesn't guarantee their salvation..:)
"When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus" (Acts of the Apostles 8:15-16)

And Paul put it in perspective-
"Jesus sent me not to baptise, but to preach the gospel" (1 Corinthians 1:17)

The holy spirit can come even without water-baptism..:)
"The Caesareans have received the holy spirit, so let's baptise them" (Acts of the Apostles 10:47-48)

Baptism with water and baptism with the holy spirit are two different things-
Jesus said- "John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit" (Acts of the Apostles 1:5)
 

Netchaplain

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Matt 24:13 endures to the end.
Hi, and those are all good applicable passages, as only those who are truly reborn will continue; for hypocrites and apostates will not remain in their false profession of the Lord Jesus.
 
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theefaith

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If water-baptism makes people feel good that's great as long as they remember it doesn't guarantee their salvation..:)
"When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus" (Acts of the Apostles 8:15-16)

And Paul put it in perspective-
"Jesus sent me not to baptise, but to preach the gospel" (1 Corinthians 1:17)

The holy spirit can come even without water-baptism..:)
"The Caesareans have received the holy spirit, so let's baptise them" (Acts of the Apostles 10:47-48)

Baptism with water and baptism with the holy spirit are two different things-
Jesus said- "John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit" (Acts of the Apostles 1:5)

faith and baptism are justification not salvation

Redemption, Justification, Sanctification, and Salvation!

Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ! Eph 2
Galatians 2:16 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...
Christ alone accomplished the redemption of mankind apart from any works on our part!

(Redemption is not Salvation)
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.


Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Sanctification: the life of grace in the holy sacrifice of the mass and sacraments, prayer, virture, and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love! Phil 1:29 called to suffer with Christ.
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Heb 4:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Rom 13:11 ...for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Suffering required for glorification with Christ!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Justification and salvation are not the same rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.




Redemption:
The redemption was accomplished by Christ with no participation on our part!

Justification:
then when we believe in him and his redemption we are justified in that faith and baptism!

Sanctification:
then we are in Christ and his church by grace faith and baptism we practice good works (prayer, alms, fasting, virtues charity, other sacraments etc.

At the hour of death separation from the grace of God by apostasy / rejection of Christ or failing to repent of serious sin a man is lost in damnation! Or

Salvation:
Is for those who are faithful and die in the grace of God united to Christ and in his saints at death enter into eternal salvation!

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) zealous of good works. (Sanctification) Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
(Salvation)
 

theefaith

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Hi, and those are all good applicable passages, as only those who are truly reborn will continue; for hypocrites and apostates will not remain in their false profession of the Lord Jesus.

how does one get reborn?
 

theefaith

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Through faith in Christ's expiation for our sins!

jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

faith alone?
What’s the water for?
 

marks

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All of the Scriptures that appear to teach that one can become unsaved, which word isn’t actually used,
This is the very same thing I've seen in the oh so many passages that various people point to as if they taught that salvation is something that can be bartered and lost. None of them, not a single one, actually say that.

Comments are made that we should accept what is written. I cannot agree more than I do! And neither should we go beyond what is written. Not one single verse that people point to as if it says we can become "unreborn" actually makes that statement.

Much love!
 

Netchaplain

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jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

faith alone?
What’s the water for?
Some say water baptism, others, that man must be born first (water and embryotic fluid) before he can be born again. Still, some say the "water" is the same as the Spirit, e.g. "Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you" (Eze 36:25).

Gill: "water and Spirit; two words, which express the same thing, signify the grace of the Spirit of God. By "water," is not meant material water, or baptismal water; for water baptism is never expressed by water only, without some additional word, which shows, that the ordinance of water baptism is intended: nor has baptism any regenerating influence in it; a person may be baptized, as Simon Magus was (Simon the sorcerer - Act 8:13), and yet not born again; and it is so far from having any such virtue, that a person ought to be born again, before he is admitted to that ordinance: and though submission to it is necessary, in order to a person's entrance into a Gospel church state, yet it is not necessary to the kingdom of heaven, or to eternal life and salvation: such a mistaken sense of this text, seems to have given the first birth and rise to infant baptism in the African churches; who taking the words in this bad sense, concluded their children must be baptized, or they could not be saved; whereas by "water" is meant, in a figurative and metaphorical sense, the grace of God, as it is elsewhere; see Ezekiel 36:25).