wHY DO cHRISTIANS CONTINUE TO INCLUDE THE WISEMEN (Magi) IN THE NATIVITY DISPLAYS?

FHII said:

You said that the details have been lost in history and aren't important. However, the details are in Matthew and Luke, so they haven't been lost and they are important. So If they are lost in history other than the Bible, then I'd have to answer yes. Do you have another written reliable account? If so, why did you say they were lost?

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Obviously, there is more to the story of Jesus's birth and childhood and life, for that matter; those details have been lost in history.

aspen said:

Obviously, there is more to the story of Jesus's birth and childhood and life, for that matter; those details have been lost in history.

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Well it seems we are in agreement. The truth about the subject indeed is confined to the Bible, as it is the only source we have.

bigdummy said:

So now I seem to be accused of wanting to eliminate the wise men from the Christmas story, I guess I am missing something here, I started this post by mentioning that the wise men were not in attendence at Jesus birth, I agree they are, and should be, included in the story of his birth but not at the time of his birth, and I am not against setting aside a day regardless of the date to celebrate Christ's birth even though the bible never instructs us to do so...I'm sorry I decided to mention that the Nativity displays of today give the impression the wise men or Magi were there....Please forgive me.

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Whoa! No, I'm not accusing you of that! Please don't think that I was. I was just kinda rambling about why I think that we show the wise men in the nativity scene, certainly not accusing you! I just find it interesting that the Bible mentions the wise men...everything in the Bible is important, so I just sort of feel like they are a part of Jesus' birth. Maybe not present at the actual time, but definitely part of the story!
It's a good point you make, and as Christians we should know our Bible enough to know the wise men were not present in that stable. I'm all for Bible awareness!! And you most certainly don't need to apologise to me...I should to you, I'm sorry you felt my post was attacking you, and your OP.

Why isn't Simeon in the Nativity scene?

Buzzfruit said:

Is it harmless if its a lie?

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Good question. When we told our daughter the truth about Santa she said "You lied". She didn't know better than to tell the truth.

I don't let my kids think Santa is real...one, cause he's not! And two, Santa has no place in the real reason of Christmas. Sure, the idea of "Santa' may have come from a good Christian man who gave presents away to the needy on that day, and sure, that's a good practice for us on that day...and every other day, but "the jolly man who lives in the North pole and exists only for the greed of kids" is not something I want my children getting on board with.

Is this a serious question or are you a troll ?

Well you see when a baby is born they still exist after their birth. People from all directions can come and see them .

FHII said:

Well it seems we are in agreement. The truth about the subject indeed is confined to the Bible, as it is the only source we have.

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So nothing else happened?

Rach said:

Hey Aspen! Just wanted to jump in on the whole "literal" interpretation thing. All of the Bible must be interpreted literally, I think, but there is two types of literal. Plain literal and figurative literal. We need to see the Bible as literal, because it's all God's word to us and all true. If we start differentiating we open the door to thinking that not all of it is true, or to be seen in a true light.
However, in saying that, we do have those two different 'literals'. There are many things in scripture that clearly means exactly what it says. Jesus says "repent", He means repent. He says "love me", He means love me!
But there are other parts of scripture that very obviously are not to be taken like that...still very true, but not like that. When the Bible says that God is like a mother hen, wanting to gather us all under His wings, we do not then believe that when we die, we will stand before a giant chicken! When the Bible says that Jesus is the 'lamb of God', obviously we don't see Him as an actual lamb! But even being figurative, the image of Jesus being a sacrificial lamb is so very important! So yes, we take it literally, He was sacrificed, like a lamb, for us.
Hope all that makes sense! What do you think about it, you didn't really say here!

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I find it is more important to interpret the Bible contextually. Also, I am interested in the global meaning of a story, chapter, book seen through the lenses of love than I am about the details or historical accuracy. To me, wondering if a story really happened exactly as it is described in the Bible - nothing more or nothing less is about as interesting and intellectually gratifying as watching paint dry. No offense, but I view fundamentalists as atheists/materialists that have decided to desperately grasp onto religious doctrine instead of the material world - both groups are Modernist reactions to each other - a Western form of Yin and Yang.

That being said, I am not opposed to a literal interpretation of scripture as a starting point for further study, but it is too often the ending point of study - see what I mean?

I am so tired of boring word studies - as if specific words are used in some static way as a direct message from God. I am just as tired of intricate, yet vague theories about ancient tribes mentioned in the OT - as if they are relevant to our lives today as anything more than a description of God's sovereignty. I am completely tired of religiousied pop psychology preached from the pulpit as a remedy to boring slogs through ancient history and irrelevant word studies. It is no wonder people are leaving churches in droves. We have lost our saltiness. Christians were known for their love in the ancient church; we are known for our judgment and deadened doctrine.

Comm.Arnold said:

Is this a serious question or are you a troll ?

Well you see when a baby is born they still exist after their birth. People from all directions can come and see them .

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Well, I can't speak for the OP, but as for me...

If anyone who was at the birth of Christ tells me the magi were not there, and never showed up at all, I will gladly remove them from my nativity.

justaname said:

If anyone who was at the birth of Christ tells me the magi were not there, and never showed up at all, I will gladly remove them from my nativity.

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In other words, the Bible isn't good enough proof for you?

FHII said:

In other words, the Bible isn't good enough proof for you?

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Why are you being antagonistic about this? Does every thought that falls outside your narrow scope of reality threaten the veracity of God's Word?

aspen said:

Why are you being antagonistic about this? Does every thought that falls outside your narrow scope of reality threaten the veracity of God's Word?

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I'm standing up for what I believe, which is the Bible. I honestly believe that it is the primary source and the only one that is 100% accurate and when it comes to our religion. I don't mind outside resources like Josephus, The Book of Enoch, the Apocrypha, etc... But If there is a discrepency, I'm going to go with the Bible. I actually believe it is God's Word.

Is my scope of reality "narrow"? Absolutely! I don't have an open mind. I have an active mind, and a willing mind, but not an open one. For example, if someone tells me that Pittsburgh won the last Superbowl, I'm not going to accept that. Now if they want to tell me that they were better than the Packers and should've won the game, I'll listen. Likewise, when someone tells me things about the birth of Christ which the Bible clearly contradicts, I will not open my mind to that. The REALITY is that the Wise men weren't at the Birth of Christ. Everyone here has admitted that, so it's not really open to debate on whether that's true or not, is it? The reality is that they WEREN'T there. We know they weren't. So yes, my scope of that reality is pretty narrow. So I might ask if your scope of unreality is really that broad.

The traditional story says that there were three wise men. The Bible doesn't say that there were three, but ok... There were Wise "Men" (plural) so there is wiggle room. Tradition says there were three because of the prominence of the number three and that there were three gifts given. So perhaps there were three, but there could've been 2 to 100 or more. But if you want to believe "3", ok. I'll entertain that. But not when the Bible clearly gives facts and traditional tales go contrary.

DOes it threaten the veracity of God's Word? Well, my "narrow scope" is the Bible, which is God's Word. But no.... It doesn't threaten the veracity of God's Word. God's Word is "God's word" Lies don't threaten it. God's Word shall stand forever, no matter how many mistruths, fudging of truths, mixing of stories or pagan practices anyone wants to throw into the story.

Matthew 2:7-8 Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, enquired of them diligently what time the star appeared. And he sent them to Beth-lehem...
Matthew 2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary His mother, and fell down, and worshipped Him:

I think that clearly puts them there. Yes the child was already born, but none the less they were there.

justaname said:

Matthew 2:7-8 Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, enquired of them diligently what time the star appeared. And he sent them to Beth-lehem...
Matthew 2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary His mother, and fell down, and worshipped Him:

I think that clearly puts them there. Yes the child was already born, but none the less they were there.

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For me the part that I think Christians who celebrate Christmas should take note of is that the wise men gave gifts to baby Jesus and not to each other. They gave Him gifts because they recognized that they were in the presence of a king.

justaname said:

Matthew 2:7-8 Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, enquired of them diligently what time the star appeared. And he sent them to Beth-lehem...
Matthew 2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary His mother, and fell down, and worshipped Him:

I think that clearly puts them there. Yes the child was already born, but none the less they were there.

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Sure they were there... Two years after. But who cares about the truth of the matter?

Honestly I am in the dark on this matter. Why do you say two years after?
If I may also, it is thought that Matthew is the gospel that was written before Mark and Luke and those gospels were thought to be written from Matthew. Also the gospel of Matthew was written to a Hebrew audience where as the two were written for others (gentiles).

Buzzfruit said:

For me the part that I think Christians who celebrate Christmas should take note of is that the wise men gave gifts to baby Jesus and not to each other. They gave Him gifts because they recognized that they were in the presence of a king.

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But if we have Jesus inside of us and we give eachother gifts is that so wrong ?