Faith..in what

I would say that you're on to something.

Faith based on the character of God is always a safe bet. As Scripture tells us, God does "all his will" and his will is always right. When we pray we need to remember that,

1Jn 5:14 And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that if we ask anything according to his will he hears us.
1Jn 5:15 And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests that we have asked of him.

God always answers prayer with three basic answers. They are "yes," "no" and "not now." The latter two are where faith in God's character begins.

Jake said:

A few posts on a couple of forums, prompted this thread, and someone just wrote on this forum about how we "use God" so that we can get something from Him, and this is exactly what I just learned. Recently an issue came up with me about faith and someone pointed out to me that perhaps my faith was not in who God is, but rather how can God work according to my requests. It did seem as if my prayers consisted of supplication, there was little of "seeking His face", and not surprisingly, I wasn't seeing results either, in my personal growth or any answered prayer.

Yet, seeing results is not true faith either, true faith has to begin with "seeking His face" simply because of who God is. Faith is believing without seeing and when we have this kind of faith, only then with these pure motives will we see real miracles.

It seems there are two kinds of faith (in the realm of what I am speaking of), the kind of faith based on God's performance and what He can do for me. I don't know for sure, but it also seems this kind of faith would cause the person to be inconsistent. I am not saying that God's work is not awesome and worthy to be seen - it is! Yet, a person who simply relies on God's response to their prayers would be on and off hot and cold for the Lord. When God answers - we are spot on, when He doesn't - then we are cold.

A person who has faith in who God is (not at all in what He has done), then it seems we can be more consistent in our walk with Him, our journey would be solid, our feet would be steadfast. If God is inactive, He could be accomplishing more at that time, then if he was active. Our ways are not His ways, our understanding is limited.

Genuine faith walks solidly with God for who He is, not for the results we might be able to get from Him, it's a faith that is not moved, because God is not moved.

Hope this makes sense.

God bless!

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Good post!!!

Jake said:

A person who has faith in who God is (not at all in what He has done), then it seems we can be more consistent in our walk with Him, our journey would be solid, our feet would be steadfast. If God is inactive, He could be accomplishing more at that time, then if he was active. Our ways are not His ways, our understanding is limited.

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This is a great post. What stuck out to me was your mention of his inactivity on certain things. When I haven't gotten the answer I was looking for in prayer, I ask myself, why? What's funny is that I almost always can think of a reason for him not answering or moving..

2 Corinthians 12:7-9

[sup]7[/sup] ..Therefore, in order to keep me from becoming conceited, I was given a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. [sup]8[/sup] Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. [sup]9[/sup] But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me.

This passage flashes through my mind when I have been persistently praying on something. It's almost as if God's words here are echoed in his creation..

To grab a rose, you have to endure a few pricks by the thorns. Can't pay for our tab, then we have to throw on an apron and get to work, lol. To inherit unimaginably, abundant, eternal life, we have to..

Oh wait, it's free as long as we remain in Jesus Christ. Many a prayer have ended with "your will, not mine" after I have stopped and thought about this.

Again, great post. Sorry for all the metaphors, lol.

Faith is not a noun - it is not something we can possess.

Faith is not reserved for spiritual practices.

Faith is simply suspending your disbelief long enough to learn something new.

We use faith all the time in our daily lives. We are called to practice faith in our relationship with God.

aspen said:

Faith is not a noun - it is not something we can possess.

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Incorrect. There is a noun form (pistis), as well as a verb form (pisteuo). Oh, and yes, faith is something you "possess." Here's an example of the noun form:

Mar 11:22 And Jesus answered them, "Have faith in God.

aspen said:

Faith is simply suspending your disbelief long enough to learn something new.

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Not one lexicon defines faith in such a strange way. "Faith" is trust or belief -- plain and simple. That's the way the Scripture uses it and that's the way all lexicons define it.

One time in the Gospels it says that Jesus couldn't do much in the town"because of their unbelief" (Matthew 13:58). Wouldn't that be an awful thing to have said about your home, about your family, about you? Jesus couldn't do much in or through you because of you just didn't believe Him. "Lord, why don't You do more in our church?" Could it be because of people's unbelief?
Faith is the key. God's promises are activated by faith. Faith is not passive-it's an action verb. Don't say, "Well, I'm just waiting here. Maybe God will work; maybe He won't." What are you doing about it? Well, not much.
It's like the sick guy who needs to get better, but he doesn't go to the doctor. That's foolishness. You've got to do what you can.
Like the girl who is looking for a husband, but never goes to the Young Adult meetings at church. She just sits down in her basement. "My husband will have to find me here." Yeah, that's not a great plan. Do what you can!
Like the person who's filled with concerns and wants to have hope, but has never read the Bible.
It's God promises that give us hope. How many Scriptural promises do you know? How many promises have you memorized? How many are on the tip of your tongue? Well, no wonder you're filled with anxiety! No wonder you don't have any hope! You're not holding onto anything.
Get your heart around some of the exceedingly great and precious promises of God! Hold on to what God has said in His Word. Someday you're going to be in a difficult situation and the enemy will be try to pull you down but you've got God's Word hidden in your heart. His words will flood you with courage and fill your life with faith.

Not one lexicon defines faith in such a strange way. "Faith" is trust or belief -- plain and simple. That's the way the Scripture uses it and that's the way all lexicons define it.

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Strike two....

Suspension of disbelief

Meaning


Origin

aspen said:

Have faith [trust, belief] in God. Trust and belief are actions.

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Again, "pistis" is a noun. "Pisteuo" is a verb. Both are used in the NT many times over. The noun form conveys a state of mind which one "possesses." Sorry, this is not debatable.

aspen said:

Suspension of disbelief

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Don't worry Aspen. You didn't disappoint me. I knew you would defend your definition by omitting the indefensible portion of it. Faith could be called the "suspension of disbelief." No problem there. Here's the problem. Show me a Greek lexicon that includes in the definition of pistis or pisteuo the phrase, "long enough to learn something new."

There are two kinds of faith, faith that leads to salvation and faith that leads to sanctification.

Faith that leads to salvation (not in view in this topic), is from God and not from ourselves, it is a gift of the Holy Spirit for our salvation.

The faith that leads to sanctification (i.e. our becoming more Holy) is a spiritual "muscle" that we must exercise lest it become weak and ineffective for the work God gifts us to do.

Good post, Jake, and good thread!

If we see God as the one who must answer to our desires, then we are making ourselves the master, and him the servant. After all, doesn't the servant first make sure the master eats and is satisfied, and THEN have his portion.

God will give us the desires of our hearts... If we wait and serve him first! And to do this, we must trust his character. The servant who does this out of love trusts that God will grant him to eat after, but knows it is his place to first serve his master, and let his master decide when he will eat.

biggandyy said:

There are two kinds of faith, faith that leads to salvation and faith that leads to sanctification.

Faith that leads to salvation (not in view in this topic), is from God and not from ourselves, it is a gift of the Holy Spirit for our salvation.

The faith that leads to sanctification (i.e. our becoming more Holy) is a spiritual "muscle" that we must exercise lest it become weak and ineffective for the work God gifts us to do.

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Did Lot's wife believe in God? Did her belief save her?

Is it enough for us to just say that we believe in Jesus?

James 2:14 "What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?"

Faith is not something we possess. It is something that is not real unless it is being used. Like love, it cannot exist dormant and doing nothing.

Like love, it can be misplaced (placed in the wrong things) if not lead of God.

Vengle said:

Did Lot's wife believe in God? Did her belief save her?

Is it enough for us to just say that we believe in Jesus?

James 2:14 "What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?"

Faith is not something we possess. It is something that is not real unless it is being used. Like love, it cannot exist dormant and doing nothing.

Like love, it can be misplaced (placed in the wrong things) if not lead of God.

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The devils believe, and they shudder.

This idea that God gives salvation to all who have a certain knowledge is purely gnosticism. Rather, it is those who obey the commands that are justified, not those who hear it.

This kind of 'gospel', so often preached, is akin to saying that hearing the gospel saves you... How ridiculous! The reality is that obeying the gospel leads to salvation.

Prentis said:

The devils believe, and they shudder.

This idea that God gives salvation to all who have a certain knowledge is purely gnosticism. Rather, it is those who obey the commands that are justified, not those who hear it.

This kind of 'gospel', so often preached, is akin to saying that hearing the gospel saves you... How ridiculous! The reality is that obeying the gospel leads to salvation.

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Amen.

Romans 2:13 "(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified."

Hebrews 11:

1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.
4 By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts; and through it he being dead still speaks.
5 By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, "and was not found, because God had taken him"; for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
7 By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going.
9 By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise;
10 for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
11 By faith Sarah herself also received strength to conceive seed, and she bore a child when she was past the age, because she judged Him faithful who had promised.
12 Therefore from one man, and him as good as dead, were born as many as the stars of the sky in multitude; innumerable as the sand which is by the seashore.
13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

This is a good tread! I am learning a lot. It seems to me that faith as a noun is incomplete in a Christians walk with Christ - without faith as verb, our faith is static or remains in our head. Even the demons believe.

Shep said:

Hebrews 11:

1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.
4 By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts; and through it he being dead still speaks.
5 By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, "and was not found, because God had taken him"; for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
7 By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going.
9 By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise;
10 for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
11 By faith Sarah herself also received strength to conceive seed, and she bore a child when she was past the age, because she judged Him faithful who had promised.
12 Therefore from one man, and him as good as dead, were born as many as the stars of the sky in multitude; innumerable as the sand which is by the seashore.
13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

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Good scripture for the subject, Shep!

Verse 11 nicely shows what Paul talks about, that by faith we receive strength (that is grace, power) to do what pleases God, and to accomplish his will.

Verse 6 gives an indication of what faith is: "6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him."

Faith requires diligence, true faith is diligent in seeking the Lord, as the woman who knocks on the door of the judge. This is the kind of faith we need!

aspen said:

This is a good tread! I am learning a lot. It seems to me that faith as a noun is incomplete in a Christians walk with Christ - without faith as verb, our faith is static or remains in our head. Even the demons believe.

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We walk by faith. By faith we enter the gate, and by faith we must then walk the way! Good thoughts, aspen!
In His love...