Speaking in tongues is NOT a gift

1stCenturyLady · Aug 30, 2022

post said:
i am merely lifting up Jesus Christ as the sole means of my salvation, the Author and Finisher of my faith.

You are doing the opposite. You've rewritten the gospel. You are NOT giving Him credit for RECREATING YOU. You are treating Him like you are in charge, and He is making it right for you, approving you as a sinner by removing His laws to let you remain a sinner, instead of taking away the poison out of your life called sin.

1stCenturyLady · Aug 30, 2022

post said:
i'm clearly not relying on my works. that's ridiculous given what i have written.

post said:
amen we seek to rule over our flesh and subject it to good behaviour and deeds ((as Peter encourages))

Well, at least, you've given Paul some credit. So you are not relying on your own works, except that it is you that is ruling over your flesh. That's not logical, it is contradictory. And it is NOT THE GOSPEL.

Post, you have a lot to unlearn. You've talked yourself into the lie that you have no hope of ever being without sin in this lifetime.

The gospel is the POWER OF GOD. Romans 1:16. Grace is not a license to sin. It is not even unmerited favor. Yes, it is favor, but not unmerited. We have to first repent. That's all, but enough. Then Jesus gives us His Spirit - His divine power, because GRACE IS THE POWER OF GOD!

God's supernatural power in us is how we stop sinning. The desire to sin is TAKEN AWAY at its source - OUR NATURE. Our nature is changed to partake of the same nature of Jesus - to be like Him. He was the firstborn of MANY BRETHREN (just like Him) and with Him inside we have all His power Mark 16:16-18. To do His works and be without sin. 1 John 3:9

1stCenturyLady · Aug 30, 2022

Bible Highlighter said:
Also, in Romans 7:14-24: Paul speaking in the present tense of his past experience as a Pharisee who was under the Old Law (i.e. the Mosaic Law or the 613 Laws of Moses as a whole). Paul could not keep the Old Law before he came to Jesus Christ. This is why he is thankful for Jesus. For the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus has made him (Paul) free from the Law of sin and death. The Law of sin and death is the 613 Laws of Moses. There is no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH (sin), but who walk after the Spirit. For Galatians 5:16 says walk after the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. Galatians 6:8-9 says, “For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.”

Verse 25 is included. It is the conclusion on the Old Covenant 14-25. The next verse starts the New Covenant.

post · Aug 30, 2022

1stCenturyLady said:
THE FLESH is not our body! OUR FLESH is what is born again!!!! Our SPIRIT AND SOUL. They DIED AND RESURRECTED and are now immortal, and instead of sinful became righteous. ALL THAT IS LEFT TO DIE IS OUR BODY!!! Then it shall be changed ALSO and become immortal. That is what Romans 8:23 MEANS!

WE ARE NOT IN THE FLESH, BUT IN THE SPIRIT. Romans 8:9

It is simple if you stop thinking you know it all AND LISTEN.

Why does the body die?

post · Aug 30, 2022

1stCenturyLady said:
Verse 25 is included. It is the conclusion on the Old Covenant 14-25. The next verse starts the New Covenant.

It's all in present tense.
you're eisegeting.

1stCenturyLady · Aug 30, 2022

post said:
Why does the body die?

Romans 8:10 because of Adam's sin.

1stCenturyLady · Aug 30, 2022

post said:
It's all in present tense.
you're eisegeting.

The tense doesn't matter to someone with an Eastern mindset. (Hebrew) But it is one reason westerners get hung up. This is why context matters, and what the rest of the Bible says.

Please answer more meaningful posts, not one about tense. After all Romans 8:2 is present tense freeing us from the sin in Romans 7:14-25 which is also present tense. But Romans 7:5 you overlooked and ignored the key for the timeline.

Bible Highlighter · Aug 30, 2022

1stCenturyLady said:
Verse 25 is included. It is the conclusion on the Old Covenant 14-25. The next verse starts the New Covenant.

I see verse 25 as speaking of both the New and the Old. But yes. Romans 8:1 is totally 100% New Covenant.

I like the Good News Translation for Romans 7:25.

Romans 7:25 (GNT) says,
“Thanks be to God, who does this through our Lord Jesus Christ!
This, then, is my condition: on my own I can serve God's law only with my mind, while my human nature serves the law of sin.”

Romans 7:24 (KJB)
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Romans 7:25 (GNT)
“Thanks be to God, who does this through our Lord Jesus Christ!”

This part of Romans 7:25 is New Covenant because Jesus is the one who can deliver us from this body of death. Jesus can help us to crucifix the affections and lusts and help us to one day rise from the grave (conquering death).

But we believers who are dead to ourselves are the ones who are freed from sin.

Romans 6:7 (KJB)
“For he that is dead is freed from sin.”

But we can have the assurance that if we live this life in denying ourselves (being dead to ourselves), we will one day experience the likeness of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Romans 6:4-5 (NKJV)
“Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection,”

Now, the second part of Romans 7:25 is describing how one is under the Old Covenant improperly (i.e. the false Pharisee religion).

This second part of Romans 7:24 says,

“This, then, is my condition: on my own I can serve God's law only with my mind, while my human nature serves the law of sin.”

For one could abide in Jesus before the New Covenant went into effect. The problem was the false Pharisee religion that made it all about “Works ALONE” with no grace (or very little emphasis on God’s grace).

Bible Highlighter · Aug 30, 2022

post said:
where do you get that from the text?
it can only be verse 13 -- "sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful" this is past tense, then everything that follows is present tense. he says one thing about the past, what the work of the law in a person is, and then goes on describing his present. if he were continuing to describe the past, the text would continue in past tense.

exegesis is not about figuring out how to make the text say what we think it ought to say. it is about figuring out what the text is actually saying - no matter how surprising it may be

In Defending the true meaning of Romans 7:

Peter says this about Paul's writings,
"As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction." (2 Peter 3:16).

In Romans 7:1-6, Paul is telling Messianic Christians (i.e. those brethren who know Old Testament Law - Romans 7:1) that the Old Law is dead and that they should serve in newness of Spirit (i.e. the New Testament Scriptures that were still being formed) and not in oldness of the letter (i.e. the Torah, etc.). This makes sense because Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed. This lines up with the temple veil being torn from top to bottom when Christ died (Which started the New Covenant officially). The Old Testament Laws on animal sacrifices was no longer in effect anymore and Jesus Christ was now our passover Lamb or perfect sacrifice. Hence, why Romans 7:2 says, "if the husband [i.e. Jesus] be dead, she [i.e. the body of believers] is loosed from the law [i.e. the Old Law] of her husband."

In Romans 7:7-13, Paul is recounting Israelite history and speaking as a Jew throughout time with the coming in of the Law of Moses and what that was like.

In Romans 7:14-24, Paul is recounting his experience as a Pharisee before he became a Christian. Paul (Saul) is describing his experience of what it is like to struggle in keeping the Old Covenant Law that did not include Jesus Christ.

It is true that the use of first-person present verbs in the passage (“I am” “I practice” “I want” “I hate” “I do”) sounds like Paul is talking about his present experience. But Paul sometimes uses “I” in a rhetorical sense to describe generic experience rather than his own present experience (1 Corinthians 10:30; 1 Corinthians 13:2-3, 1 Corinthians 13:11). In at least one other place, Paul uses a first-person present verb to describe his opponents’ experience (Galatians 2:18).

The first half of Romans 7:25 transitions back to the present day reality as Paul being a Christian. He is thankful that he now has victory in Jesus Christ His Lord who can deliver him from his body of death (Which was a problem before). Otherwise why is Paul thanking Jesus?

Paul asks the question in verse 24.

Who shall deliver me from this body of death?

I like how the Good News Translation answers this question. It says,

"Thanks be to God, who does this through our Lord Jesus Christ! This, then, is my condition: on my own I can serve God's law only with my mind, while my human nature serves the law of sin." (Romans 7:25 GNT).

The NTE says,

"...So then, left to my own self I am enslaved to God’s law with my mind, but to sin’s law with my human flesh." (Romans 7:25 NTE).

But Romans 13:14 says,
"But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof."

Bible Highlighter · Aug 30, 2022

post said:
where do you get that from the text?
it can only be verse 13 -- "sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful" this is past tense, then everything that follows is present tense. he says one thing about the past, what the work of the law in a person is, and then goes on describing his present. if he were continuing to describe the past, the text would continue in past tense.

exegesis is not about figuring out how to make the text say what we think it ought to say. it is about figuring out what the text is actually saying - no matter how surprising it may be

There are 8 reasons in Scripture that show us that Paul is indeed talking as a Pharisee (recounting his past experience) and he is not talking in the present tense as a Christian in Romans 7:14-24.

#1. In Romans 7:6, Paul says we should serve in newness of the spirit and not the oldness of the letter (Which is the Old Law and not the New Testament Scriptures that were still being formed). We are told to SERVE. How do we serve? Do we just do our own thing? No. We follow God's commands in the New Testament. This talk of the Old Law is the context of verses 14-24.

#2. We are dead to the Law by the body of Jesus Christ (Romans 7:4). Would this be the Old Law or ALL law? 1 John 3:23 is a commandment that says we are to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. This is a New Covenant Law. So obviously we are not dead to this Law or Command. The Scriptures also say, "but now commandeth all men everywhere to repent." (Acts 17:30). Are we dead to this Law? Surely not. Jesus said "repent or perish." (Luke 13:3). Peter told Simon to repent (by way of prayer to God) of his wickedness of trying to pay for the gifts of the Holy Spirit so that he may be forgiven (Acts 8:22). Sin is merely transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4). All this lets us know that men of God can break God's laws and they can be separated from GOD because of it. So surely some kind of Law of God is still in effect and has dire consequences for any person's soul who commits them. For Jesus said that if we do not forgive, we will not be forgiven by the Father (Matthew 6:15). If Jesus was talking to unbelievers, this would not make any sense. They would first need to accept Christ. So the only logical conclusion is that Jesus is talking to believers in Matthew 6:15. You do not forgive (i.e. you sin or break this law of God) and you will not be forgiven or saved. 1 John 3:15 says if you hate your brother you are like a murderer and no murderer has eternal life abiding in them. Again, you hate your brother (which can be a one time act) and you do not have eternal life. It's that simple. Also, Paul condemns circumcision several times. Galatians 5:2 is the biggest verse that condemns circumcision salvationism. Circumcision is an Old Covenant Law and it is not a New Covenant Law. Paul uses the word "law" when he speaks against circumcision. So we have to conclude that Paul is saying we are dead to the Old Covenant Law and not all Law. So again, this talk of the Old Law plays into verses 14-24.

#3. Paul says, "For without the law sin was dead." (Romans 7:8). He also says, "I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died." (Romans 7:9). This type of saying is nonsensical from a present tense reading as an adult Christian. The only way it sort of works is if Paul is referring to himself as a baby who had no knowledge of God's laws yet. But there are two problems with even that interpretation. One, this view does not seem as consistent with the phrase, "For without the law sin was dead" because even though Paul as a baby did not have any knowledge of the Law yet, the rest of the adult world would have the Law and sin would still be alive to them. Second, Paul says, "And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me." (Romans 7:10-11). Okay, so if Paul grew up and became aware of the Law one day, how could the commandment be ordained to life at this point in his life? The commandment was ordained for life back in the time of the Law of Moses. Also, Paul found that "the commandment" was death unto him and that it slew him. There are no death penalties attached to the commands given to us under the New Testament. Death penalties are only associated with the Laws given to us in the Old Covenant. This is how the Law slew him. For breaking the Old Law could be a loss of his own physical life. So this is talking about the Old Law (and not all Law). So again, this talk of the Old Law plays into verses 14-24.

#4. Paul says, "But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful." (Romans 7:13). Okay. Let's break this down. Paul says, "But sin, that it MIGHT APPEAR SIN, works death in me." (Romans 7:13). Now, how can sin make it appear like it may not be sin? Well, if Jesus was raised and Saul (Paul) was still a Pharisee striving to obey the Old Law when the New Covenant Law was still in effect, the sin that Saul (Paul) was struggling with as a pharisee during that time would not really technically be sin in every case. For if Paul disobeyed certain Old Covenant laws while the New Covenant and it's laws were in effect, then Saul (Paul) is not really breaking any real commandments from God in every case. Hence, why Paul said, "...sin, that it MIGHT APPEAR (as) SIN." (Romans 7:13). The beginning of verse 13 is a foreshadow of what is to come in verses 14-24. Paul is stepping out for a brief moment as speaking as an Israelite living throughout history to speak of his condition as a Pharisee when he says, "...sin, that it might appear sin." In the second half of verse 13, Paul says, that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful." (Romans 7:13). This is saying that when God provided the written Law of Moses to his people, there would be a double accountability to keeping God's laws because they are written for all to see now. So an Old Testament saint would feel exceedingly sinful or guilty for breaking God's law back in the Old Testament times because he had in his possession a written down visual law clearly telling him what is right and wrong. So again, Paul is referring to the Old Law here and not all law. This talk of the Old Law plays into verses 14-24.

(Continued in next post):

Bible Highlighter · Aug 30, 2022

#5. Paul says in Romans 7:14 that he is carnal and is sold under sin; And yet in Romans 8:2, Pauls says he is free from sin. So unless Paul is contradicting himself, he is talking from two different perspectives.

#6. In Romans 7:25, Paul asks the question: "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?" Asking this kind of question as a Christian does not seem consistent with Paul's following statement if he is already delivered thru Jesus Christ as a Christian. If a believer is delivered by Jesus, and is thankful of that fact, there would be no cry to ask any question that says, "Who shall deliver me from this body of death?"

#7. Here is the final nail in the coffin for this argument. Romans 8:3-4 says,
3 "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." (Romans 8:3-4).

So which Law did God send His Son for so as to condemn sin in the flesh?
While Jesus died for all sins, in this verse it is referring to the Old Covenant Law. For when Jesus died on the cross, the temple veil was ripped from top to bottom letting us know that the Old Testament laws were no longer valid because the Old Laws on the animal sacrifices and the priesthood were no longer acceptable. Jesus Christ was now our Passover Lamb.
Jesus Christ was soon be our Heavenly High Priest (after He ascended to His father after His resurrection 3 days later) so He can be our mediator between God the Father and man.

Romans 8:4 says, "That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

This is saying that the righteous part or aspect of the Old Law can be fulfilled in us.

Paul says elsewhere,

8 "Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law." (Romans 13:8-10).

So loving your neighbor is the righteousness of the Old Law!

We fulfill this law by walking after the Spirit and not after the flesh (i.e. sin).

So we see a consistent theme here. The word "law" used in general (with no actual description attached to it) is in reference to the Old Law in Romans 7 and Romans 8. This helps us to understand that Paul is telling us his past experience or life as a Pharisee in struggling to keep the Old Law unsuccessfully because he did not have Jesus Christ yet (in verses 14-24).

#8. In addition, in Romans 8:2, we see the mention of how there are TWO laws. We also learn from this verse that keeping one of these Laws helps us to be set FREE from the other one.

In Romans 8:2, we see:

Law #1. - Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.
This is a New Covenant Law that we are still under. What is this Law?
It is fulfilling the righteousness of the Law (i.e. to love your neighbor - Romans 13:8-10) by walking after the Spirit (See Romans 8:3-4).

Law #2. Sin and Death.
This is in reference to the Old Covenant Law as a whole (i.e. the 613 Old Testament Commands within the Torah). It is called the Law of Sin and Death because you could physically be put to death by not obeying this Law.

What is the relationship of these two laws in Romans 8:2?

Keeping the New Law helps us to be free of the Old Law.
For there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus who WALK not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (Romans 8:1).

Source used for a small paragraph within this write up:
Paul is not Talking about Himself: Why I take the "pre-Christian" Reading of Romans 7:14-25

post · Aug 31, 2022

1stCenturyLady said:
You are doing the opposite. You've rewritten the gospel. You are NOT giving Him credit for RECREATING YOU. You are treating Him like you are in charge, and He is making it right for you, approving you as a sinner by removing His laws to let you remain a sinner, instead of taking away the poison out of your life called sin.

Is it not sin on your part, to make such accusations about me? So you have not attained the things that you boast in.

I have said, my trust is fully in Him.
I have said, He is holy, and He alone is good, and no one is like Him.

post · Aug 31, 2022

1stCenturyLady said:
The tense doesn't matter to someone with an Eastern mindset. (Hebrew)

The tense matters.

You're exhibiting pattern behavior of eisegesis.

If what the text actually says doesn't matter here neither does it matter anywhere.

Bible Highlighter · Aug 31, 2022

post said:
The tense matters.

You're exhibiting pattern behavior of eisegesis.

If what the text actually says doesn't matter here neither does it matter anywhere.

In regards to Romans 7:14-24, another Christian says:

Some people believe that because Paul wrote this section in the present tense, he was struggling with sin as he wrote it. Consider an unlikely story from a few years ago: I get a call from a pilot friend of mine asking me if I want to fly with him to pick up another pilot who is stranded at a distant airport due to a flat tire on his plane. We land at the same airport, and wouldn't you know, we too get a flat tire on the runway! Two flats in one day... what are the odds? The airport is shut down for about an hour as we struggle to get the disabled plane off the runway. Since the mechanic shops are closed for the weekend and we've run out of working planes, the three of us are forced to take a long and expensive Uber ride home.

What does this have to do with the verb tense of Romans? Nothing at all, except my entire story was written in present tense even though it happened years ago. Did you notice? This technique is commonly used in English to make details that happened in the past more vivid to readers in the present. This technique was even more common in the Greek of Paul's day. Biblical writers switched tenses constantly, presenting a famously difficult challenge for translators, and translators frequently translate verb tenses inaccurately to fit their personal theology. The tense of Paul’s verbs does not undermine the clear meaning of the words themselves.

Source:
The Error of Faith Alone
(Note: I agree only with this portion of the article; It does not mean I agree with everything this author says).

Bible Highlighter · Aug 31, 2022

post said:
Is it not sin on your part, to make such accusations about me? So you have not attained the things that you boast in.

I have said, my trust is fully in Him.
I have said, He is holy, and He alone is good, and no one is like Him.

She is not falsely accusing you.

You said on another forum, I quote:

“…you are also a sinner just like everyone else;…”

Quote by: Posthuman.

Source quote.

You also said on another forum, I quote:

“John says we are a liar and Truth does not dwell in us if we say we have no sin or that we have not sinned.
Paul shows us that David says God doesn't impute sin to the person whose sin is forgiven.
John says He is faithful to forgive our sins if we acknowledge them but if we pretend we don't have sin or that we don't commit sin, Christ is not in us.

Paul says the righteousness imputed by God to those who receive Him is by faith, by putting our trust in the One who justifies the ungodly.
--- that means

we have to acknowledge our sinfulness, confessing that we are ungodly, and that He is our only hope.”

~ Quote by Posthuman.

Source quote.

This strongly suggests that you take the sin and still be saved interpretation on 1 John 1:8 like most Christians today. This means you can sin and still be saved on some level.

Let me ask you: If a Christian were to generally live a holy life, and then they looked upon a woman in lust and they immediately were hit by a bus and died, were they saved by their faith alone in Jesus Christ?

1 John 1:9 says we have to confess of sin to be forgiven of sin.

Do you believe that a Christian in this example was not saved because they did not confess of their sin? Or does a belief alone in Jesus as their Savior the real thing that saves them?

Anyways, I have talked with other Christians before who believe in a similar way as you do, and they believe that the Christian man who looked at a woman in lust and then immediately died was saved (even without them confessing their sin to the Lord in this life). This means that one can just commit sin and just believe in Jesus and be saved. This really is no different than Hyper Grace. Yes, you may not condone a Christian who murders or rapes as being saved, but what about your reference to saying how we must admit we are ungodly and we are sinners? That means you are still opening the door to justifying sin on some level under God’s grace.

Side Note:

You also take Paul’s words that he is the chief of sinners in 1 Timothy 1:15 as if he was referring to him being the chief of sinners in the present tense (Source quote). Yet, the context shows that he was referring to his past old life. This is obviously in the fact that Paul refers to his past life of sin in verse 13, “Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, …” (1 Timothy 1:13).

Side Note 2:

Also, if the sin and still be saved interpretation on 1 John 1:8 is true, then how do you believe 1 John 2:3-4? You cannot say you keep His commandments and yet also break them at the same time. That would be a contradiction. One is either obeying God’s commands or they are not (i.e. they are sinning). You cannot have it both ways.

1stCenturyLady · Aug 31, 2022

Bible Highlighter said:
I see verse 25 as speaking of both the New and the Old....

“This, then, is my condition: on my own I can serve God's law only with my mind, while my human nature serves the law of sin.”

No, it is the concluding verse of 14-25 about sin in our flesh that Jesus FREES US FROM. Our "human nature" is what is born again - our spirit and soul.

"25 So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin." THAT is NOT a Christian.

This is the major difference between the Old and the New. The flesh! We are not even a Christian unless our flesh, the old man, is crucified and resurrected. Romans 6:6-7, freeing us FROM sin.

5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.

The Old Covenant is the covenant of LAW. The New Covenant is the Covenant of Spirit.

Romans 7:5-6
5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.

Romans 8:9 But you are NOT IN THE FLESH BUT IN THE SPIRIT, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Bible Highlighter · Aug 31, 2022

1stCenturyLady said:
No, it is the concluding verse of 14-25 about sin in our flesh that Jesus FREES US FROM. Our "human nature" is what is born again - our spirit and soul.

"25 So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin." THAT is NOT a Christian.

Well, first, there are no verse numbers in the original text (Although I believe God did intend for their use later). In other words, not all verses in the Bible are teaching just one exclusive truth always.

Second, the latter half of verse 25 is Paul describing his experience before he came to Christ (i.e. on his own he could not obey God’s laws). The first half of verse 25 (is like a foreshadow) whereby it is describing how Jesus can deliver us from our body of death (Which is enslaved to sin and on the way to hell and how Jesus can set us free).

You said:
This is the major difference between the Old and the New. The flesh! We are not even a Christian unless our flesh, the old man, is crucified and resurrected. Romans 6:6-7, freeing us FROM sin.

5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.

I believe that is what I was saying before. So I am not in disagreement that we must crucify the flesh. Believers must die to themselves and die to sin and serve the Lord Jesus. Galatians 5:24 says that they that are Christ’s have crucified the affections and lusts.

You said:
The Old Covenant is the covenant of LAW. The New Covenant is the Covenant of Spirit.

Both the Old Covenant and New Covenant are governed by laws or commands (Note: These laws are different in many cases per each covenant).
Both the Old Covenant and New Covenant also had God guiding and leading them (Although it was slightly different).

In the OT: Kings and prophets had the Spirit.
But not all OT saints had the Spirit.
But that does not mean God was not guiding OT saints in another capacity.
That does not mean that OT saints were not born again.

You said:
Romans 7:5-6
5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

If Saul (Paul) followed the Old Covenant like God intended it, then there would not have been any problem. The problem was the Pharisee false religion that made the 613 Laws of Moses the focus over God’s grace. The Pharisee religion was the issue and not the Old Covenant. Yes, the Old Covenant is not as perfect as the New, but God does not make mistakes, either. The Old served a purpose and one could obey God under the Old system. In Romans 7: Paul was talking about how we are not under the Old Law (the 613 Laws of Moses like the sabbath, circumcision, dietary laws, etc.), and how he could not obey God on his own (without Jesus Christ). For even in the Old Covenant, saints could abide in Christ.

You said:
Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.

Romans 8:9 But you are NOT IN THE FLESH BUT IN THE SPIRIT, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Totally agree with these verses.
We need GOD in our lives to walk in His good ways.
We need to crucify the affections and lusts.
No sin can be justified with a believer thinking they are saved.
Most of Christianity today justifies sin on some level.
This is wrong.

1stCenturyLady · Aug 31, 2022

Bible Highlighter said:
Second, the latter half of verse 25 is Paul describing his experience before he came to Christ (i.e. on his own he could not obey God’s laws). The first half of verse 25 (is like a foreshadow) whereby it is describing how Jesus can deliver us from our body of death (Which is enslaved to sin and on the way to hell and how Jesus can set us free).

I used to think 25 was separate from 14-23, but it is not. It is still talking about being in the flesh and not in the Spirit. Go back to Romans 7:5-6

5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

Verse 25 is still WHEN we were in the flesh before Jesus. Verse 24 is referring back to 5-6 but it is still ABOUT 14-23.

1stCenturyLady · Aug 31, 2022

Bible Highlighter said:
Second, the latter half of verse 25 is Paul describing his experience before he came to Christ (i.e. on his own he could not obey God’s laws). The first half of verse 25 (is like a foreshadow) whereby it is describing how Jesus can deliver us from our body of death (Which is enslaved to sin and on the way to hell and how Jesus can set us free).

The first half of 25 is still the mind which is in both covenants. But in the old it was memorized commandments that were engraved on stone. So it belongs in 25 in the whole of it.

Bible Highlighter · Aug 31, 2022

1stCenturyLady said:
The first half of 25 is still the mind which is in both covenants. But in the old it was memorized commandments that were engraved on stone. So it belongs in 25 in the whole of it.

Sorry. I disagree with your interpretation on the first half of Romans 7:25. Nobody who is a slave to sin is going to give thanks to Jesus Christ their Lord for delivering them from their body of death (Which is an answer from the question in verse 24). Only the second half of verse 25 is a final side note that on Paul’s own strength and power (without Jesus) is a slave to sin.

So again the first half of Romans 7:25 that gives thanks Jesus (for delivering them from this body of death) is a New Covenant way of thinking.
The second half of Romans 7:25 is Pharisee thinking (twisting the Old Law beyond what it was intended with one trying to obey God on their own power without the Lord).

Speaking in tongues is NOT a gift

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