Who is this Babylon chick anyways?

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David Boyer

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You have to do that, too.

I said I consider all this a hill not worth dying on. It is what it is and we will know for sure what it is when it happens, whether we see it from this side of heaven or the other. Frankly, I'm sick of people demeaning and abusing other people when they don't agree with what they have so arrogantly declared is the right and only way to understand it. ESPECIALLY this small matter of when the saints get taken up to heaven.

Show me where I have placed my ideas above the text of Revelation. Please. I don't want to do that and if I have then I would love to see it pointed out.

I haven't declared my way the correct way. I am pointing out the flaws in others arguments. If they can defend their position then I may be forced to change my mind.

Show me exactly where I get it wrong and I will concede the point.
 

ScottA

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In a word?

Eve...who was taken out of Adam, the mother of sin who gave birth to all generations.​
 

Dropship

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I have no idea of the Anti-Christ as that is a European problem not mine..

Yeah, that sweet little old boy in the White House can't possibly be the antichrist..:)
Oh wait..
"..Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light." (2 Corinthians 11:13-14)

biden-grin.jpg
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Wait, it gets worse..:)-

biden-666.jpg

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And he's put a big smile on the mullah's faces by giving them permission to build nukes, what could possibly go wrong?..
shtf-biden-iran2.jpg
 
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quietthinker

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Just saying your previous post was pure gibberish to me. While this post brought no new information to the discussion. Thanks for participating, your trophy is in the mail.
A door has been opened for you.....why not walk through?
 

amigo de christo

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Me thinks ol dropship DIDNT VOTE FOR BIDEN . Cant argue with that either .
Let us stick to the LORD and trust not in men but rather in GOD alone .
 
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Marty fox

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So let's see where everyone stands on the Babylon babe question.

I've heard anywhere from Vatican, Mecca, Jerusalem, New York, Hollywood, and who can forget historic Babylon.

Well because of all the imports listed and the reactions of the shipmasters in Rev 18:11-15 we can all agree to write off Mecca or any Islamic state.
Mostly that also excludes any place that doesn't do an epic shipping trade. So that's most of the other candidates.

So that just would leave and American city or a city state such as all of America.

So who would the beast be? My money would be on China. Because who is Americas greatest partner in crime. China. Who does China hate. America.

Just my 2 bits as they used to say. Now let the fighting begin. And remember to include references from Rev 17+18.

Below are 10 points from the bible that show us that first century Jerusalem is the Babylon the great of the book of Revelation.

1) Ezekiel 16 and Revelation 18

If you read Ezekiel chapter 16 you will see that God mentions that Jerusalem prostituted herself to the nations. See how it resembles Revelation chapter 18 as God judges that great prostitute who the kings of the earth commit adultery with. There are many similarities between Ezekiel 16 and Revelation 18.

2) The woman in the wilderness.

In Revelation 12:6 & 12:14 the woman Israel is taken into the wilderness for protection for a set time. We then find a women in the wilderness in Revelation 17:3 sitting on a beast as John is taken into the wilderness to see her. This woman is called the great prostitute. The name on her forehead is

Babylon the great
the mother of prostitutes
and of the abominations of the earth.

If this wasn’t the same woman in Revelation 12 then what happened to the woman in Revelation 12 after the set time?

3) The great city

Babylon the great is called the great city in Revelation 17:18 and Revelation 18:21. Not a great city but the great city. A great city could be one of many cities but the great city could only be one city. Revelation 11:8 says that the great city is the city where our lord was crucified. Jesus was crucified in Jerusalem.

4) 1 Peter 5:13 states she who is in Babylon greets you.

This shows that the saints knew who Babylon was at that time. It has been said that the she in Babylon was the church in Jerusalem where it is believed that Peter lived at that time.

5) The woman dressed in scarlet and gold.

In Revelation 17:4 the woman is dressed in scarlet, gold and precious stones. Jeremiah 4:30 also says that Jerusalem is dressed in scarlet jewels and gold.

6) Your lovers will despise and kill you.

Both Jerusalem in Jeremiah 4:30-31 and Babylon the great in Revelation 17 are killed by her lovers.

Some people believe that Babylon the great will be the city that a future antichrist
known as the beast will rule from. In Revelation 17:16-17 it says that the beast and
the 10 horns will hate the prostitute and bring her to ruin because God had put it into
their hearts to accomplish his purpose. Why would the beast destroy the city or
empire that he rules from? Rome who I believe to be the beast did destroy Jerusalem.

In 70AD Rome did destroy Jerusalem for Gods purpose.

7) The nations will mourn

Jeremiah 4:28 says the earth will mourn at the destruction of Jerusalem. Revelation 18:9,11,15 and 19 all say that the kings, merchants and all who work on the seas will mourn at the destruction of Babylon the great.

8) The cup of Gods wrath

Both Jerusalem and Babylon the great drink the cup of Gods wrath. Isaiah 51:17 & Revelation 16:19

9) A queen and a widow.

In Revelation 18:7 Babylon the great says I sit as queen I will never be a widow. n Jerusalem in Lamentations 1:1-2 is described as a queen who is now a widow. Both Babylon the great and Jerusalem’s friends betray and destroy them.

10) All who have been killed on the earth. This is the most important point.

Revelation 18:20
20 “Rejoice over her, you heavens!
Rejoice, you people of God!
Rejoice, apostles and prophets!
For God has judged her
with the judgment she imposed on you.”

Revelation 18:24
24 In her was found the blood of prophets and of God’s holy people,
of all who have been slaughtered on the earth.”

Revelation 18:20 says that Babylon the great killed both the saints and the prophets. Revelation 18:24 says Babylon the great is responsible for all of the blood of the saints and prophets and all that have been killed on the earth.

Only Israel is responsible for killing both the prophets and the saints.

Now read what Jesus said in Matthew 23:35 as he was prophesying about the destruction of Jerusalem

35And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.

Jesus was saying that Jerusalem just like Babylon the great is responsible for and will be judged of all the blood that has been shed on the earth. They must be one and the same. This is prophecy fulfilled.
 

David Boyer

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Below are 10 points from the bible that show us that first century Jerusalem is the Babylon the great of the book of Revelation.

1) Ezekiel 16 and Revelation 18

If you read Ezekiel chapter 16 you will see that God mentions that Jerusalem prostituted herself to the nations. See how it resembles Revelation chapter 18 as God judges that great prostitute who the kings of the earth commit adultery with. There are many similarities between Ezekiel 16 and Revelation 18.

2) The woman in the wilderness.

In Revelation 12:6 & 12:14 the woman Israel is taken into the wilderness for protection for a set time. We then find a women in the wilderness in Revelation 17:3 sitting on a beast as John is taken into the wilderness to see her. This woman is called the great prostitute. The name on her forehead is

Babylon the great
the mother of prostitutes
and of the abominations of the earth.

If this wasn’t the same woman in Revelation 12 then what happened to the woman in Revelation 12 after the set time?

3) The great city

Babylon the great is called the great city in Revelation 17:18 and Revelation 18:21. Not a great city but the great city. A great city could be one of many cities but the great city could only be one city. Revelation 11:8 says that the great city is the city where our lord was crucified. Jesus was crucified in Jerusalem.

4) 1 Peter 5:13 states she who is in Babylon greets you.

This shows that the saints knew who Babylon was at that time. It has been said that the she in Babylon was the church in Jerusalem where it is believed that Peter lived at that time.

5) The woman dressed in scarlet and gold.

In Revelation 17:4 the woman is dressed in scarlet, gold and precious stones. Jeremiah 4:30 also says that Jerusalem is dressed in scarlet jewels and gold.

6) Your lovers will despise and kill you.

Both Jerusalem in Jeremiah 4:30-31 and Babylon the great in Revelation 17 are killed by her lovers.

Some people believe that Babylon the great will be the city that a future antichrist
known as the beast will rule from. In Revelation 17:16-17 it says that the beast and
the 10 horns will hate the prostitute and bring her to ruin because God had put it into
their hearts to accomplish his purpose. Why would the beast destroy the city or
empire that he rules from? Rome who I believe to be the beast did destroy Jerusalem.

In 70AD Rome did destroy Jerusalem for Gods purpose.

7) The nations will mourn

Jeremiah 4:28 says the earth will mourn at the destruction of Jerusalem. Revelation 18:9,11,15 and 19 all say that the kings, merchants and all who work on the seas will mourn at the destruction of Babylon the great.

8) The cup of Gods wrath

Both Jerusalem and Babylon the great drink the cup of Gods wrath. Isaiah 51:17 & Revelation 16:19

9) A queen and a widow.

In Revelation 18:7 Babylon the great says I sit as queen I will never be a widow. n Jerusalem in Lamentations 1:1-2 is described as a queen who is now a widow. Both Babylon the great and Jerusalem’s friends betray and destroy them.

10) All who have been killed on the earth. This is the most important point.

Revelation 18:20
20 “Rejoice over her, you heavens!
Rejoice, you people of God!
Rejoice, apostles and prophets!
For God has judged her
with the judgment she imposed on you.”

Revelation 18:24
24 In her was found the blood of prophets and of God’s holy people,
of all who have been slaughtered on the earth.”

Revelation 18:20 says that Babylon the great killed both the saints and the prophets. Revelation 18:24 says Babylon the great is responsible for all of the blood of the saints and prophets and all that have been killed on the earth.

Only Israel is responsible for killing both the prophets and the saints.

Now read what Jesus said in Matthew 23:35 as he was prophesying about the destruction of Jerusalem

35And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.

Jesus was saying that Jerusalem just like Babylon the great is responsible for and will be judged of all the blood that has been shed on the earth. They must be one and the same. This is prophecy fulfilled.


So if it is all said and done... why are you on an eschatology forum? I hear you say this is all a history lesson. I don't see it that way so I'm sure you wont mind if I disregard the history lesson, interesting as it may be. You understand, just for the purposes of this discussion.
 

Marty fox

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So if it is all said and done... why are you on an eschatology forum? I hear you say this is all a history lesson. I don't see it that way so I'm sure you wont mind if I disregard the history lesson, interesting as it may be. You understand, just for the purposes of this discussion.

Im not saying that it’s all said and done but the part about Babylon the great is.

You have to put aside man’s views and ask yourself what does the bible say about her.

Revelation is the revelation of Jesus Christ who is He and what did He do?

He is God and He ushered in the new covenant.

Revelation is a book of transition for the old covenant to the new covenant and from the earthly Jerusalem to the new Jerusalem.
 

Davy

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So let's see where everyone stands on the Babylon babe question.

I've heard anywhere from Vatican, Mecca, Jerusalem, New York, Hollywood, and who can forget historic Babylon.

Well because of all the imports listed and the reactions of the shipmasters in Rev 18:11-15 we can all agree to write off Mecca or any Islamic state.
Mostly that also excludes any place that doesn't do an epic shipping trade. So that's most of the other candidates.

So that just would leave and American city or a city state such as all of America.

So who would the beast be? My money would be on China. Because who is Americas greatest partner in crime. China. Who does China hate. America.

Just my 2 bits as they used to say. Now let the fighting begin. And remember to include references from Rev 17+18.

That shipping trade idea applied to America is just a fallacy, not at all how the metaphor is meant in Revelation 18, nor is it enough to define the Babylon Harlot city.

1. Revelation defines the Babylon harlot in Revelation 17 especially. And it says that it is a "great city", and linked to the ten horns and seven head beast kingdom of Revelation 13:1. That means RULE OVER A HUGE AMOUNT OF TERRITORY, like the WHOLE EARTH!

2. Is there economic trade on international scales on today's earth? Yes, of course, and technically, that ten horn, seven head, ten crown beast kingdom to be setup over ALL NATIONS is not even here yet today. So how can those with small minds limit that still 'future' beast one-world kingdom into one small city in America, or Europe??

3. Even in Revelation 17:15 we are told how large an expanse the Babylon Harlot is over, showing the "waters" where the "whore sitteth" being "peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues"! Therefore, the idea of the Harlot is about a CONTROLLING CITY OVER ALL NATIONS OF THE WORLD!

4. But wait a minute, didn't Lord Jesus show a pseudo-Christ is to come first, with many saying Christ is here? and to not believe it? And that false-Messiah is to work great signs and wonders that would IF possible, deceive even His very elect? And Paul said that false one will sit in the "temple of God" showing himself that he is God, and over all that is even called God, or that is worshiped? WHERE IS THE TEMPLE OF GOD ALWAYS BEEN UPON THIS EARTH?

5. Why are the orthodox Jews still gathering materials to build a THIRD TEMPLE in Jerusalem? They even have some of the temple artifacts on display in today's Jerusalem that are required for old covenant worship.

6. Just WHERE did Lord Jesus point to, with the coming of that false-Messiah, with his placing of the "abomination of desolation" idol inside a temple? JERUSALEM.

7. Even Revelation 11 tells where God's two witnesses are killed by the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit, with their dead bodies laying in the street for 3 and 1/2 days, in JERUSALEM.

8. And Bible study in Ezekiel 16 shows us how GOD feels about Jerusalem when she fell away from Him to become a HARLOT. That is what He calls her!

Thus the Babylon Harlot city is.... JERUSALEM fallen in idol worship for the end of this world.
 

David Boyer

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That shipping trade idea applied to America is just a fallacy, not at all how the metaphor is meant in Revelation 18, nor is it enough to define the Babylon Harlot city.

1. Revelation defines the Babylon harlot in Revelation 17 especially. And it says that it is a "great city", and linked to the ten horns and seven head beast kingdom of Revelation 13:1. That means RULE OVER A HUGE AMOUNT OF TERRITORY, like the WHOLE EARTH!

2. Is there economic trade on international scales on today's earth? Yes, of course, and technically, that ten horn, seven head, ten crown beast kingdom to be setup over ALL NATIONS is not even here yet today. So how can those with small minds limit that still 'future' beast one-world kingdom into one small city in America, or Europe??

3. Even in Revelation 17:15 we are told how large an expanse the Babylon Harlot is over, showing the "waters" where the "whore sitteth" being "peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues"! Therefore, the idea of the Harlot is about a CONTROLLING CITY OVER ALL NATIONS OF THE WORLD!

4. But wait a minute, didn't Lord Jesus show a pseudo-Christ is to come first, with many saying Christ is here? and to not believe it? And that false-Messiah is to work great signs and wonders that would IF possible, deceive even His very elect? And Paul said that false one will sit in the "temple of God" showing himself that he is God, and over all that is even called God, or that is worshiped? WHERE IS THE TEMPLE OF GOD ALWAYS BEEN UPON THIS EARTH?

5. Why are the orthodox still gathering materials to build a THIRD TEMPLE in Jerusalem? They even have some of the temple artifacts on display in today's Jerusalem that are required for old covenant worship.

6. Just WHERE did Lord Jesus point to, with the coming of that false-Messiah, with his placing of the "abomination of desolation" idol inside a temple? JERUSALEM.

7. Even Revelation 11 tells where God's two witnesses are killed by the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit, with their dead bodies laying in the street for 3 and 1/2 days, in JERUSALEM.

8. And Bible study in Ezekiel 16 shows us how GOD feels about Jerusalem when she fell away from Him to become a HARLOT. That is what He calls her!

Thus the Babylon Harlot city is.... JERUSALEM fallen in idol worship for the end of this world.


Not a metaphor.

1. Possible different beast than 13.1... and your capitalised words are opinion.
2. I say it is possibly all of America. Cities in NT times often were city states. Or the capital was also a reference for an entire empire. When you mention Rome is it the city or empire? Jerusalem, city or all Israel or all Israelite's? And again the phrase you capitalised is opinion.
3. The waters/peoples could easily speak to the multi-nationalism of the "melting pot" of America. Again capital opinions.
4. Who said the Whore is the Anti-Christ? You are making up solutions to arguments that no one has made.
5. To build the Temple. That's why they gather the material. And the red heifer.
6. What does the Whore have to do with the abomination if the Whore isn't the Anti-Christ? Remember, that is your invention.
7. Same answer as 6, 4 and what I always have said. The Whore is not connected to these other events.
8. Yep, you got me on that one. Jerusalem is a harlot... but the Great Harlot?

Please bring better logic to the table and don't straw man my arguments. Please, think things through a bit longer, better.
 

David Boyer

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Im not saying that it’s all said and done but the part about Babylon the great is.

You have to put aside man’s views and ask yourself what does the bible say about her.

Revelation is the revelation of Jesus Christ who is He and what did He do?

He is God and He ushered in the new covenant.

Revelation is a book of transition for the old covenant to the new covenant and from the earthly Jerusalem to the new Jerusalem.

References required for your opinion. Chapter and verse in Revelation for your last sentence is required.
 

Davy

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Not a metaphor.

Yeah it is a metaphor, for a 'certain' idea in Bible Scripture, and something you apparently are not familiar with.

Rev 18:11-19
11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,
13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.
14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.
15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,
16 And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!
17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,

18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!
19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

KJV

Can't narrow that down to just one city with those descriptions in red above. It's about INTERNATIONAL TRADE BY SEA by the merchants of the earth, and that does NOT mean merchants and ships of just one region of the earth, like the theory from men you have latched onto. It is about a SYSTEM OF WORLD COMMERCE. The ships idea is only being used as a METAPHOR for world trade.

And if you had understood what God showed in Ezekiel 28 in parable about Satan, and world commerce involving the rock island of Tyre, linked to Satan, then you would have begun to grasp how that history connects with this coming one-world beast kingdom that the Harlot city will be over for the end of this world.
 
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Marty fox

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References required for your opinion. Chapter and verse in Revelation for your last sentence is required.

Revelation 1:1
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place

So it is the revelation of Jesus Christ. So who is Jesus and what did He do?

Do you agree that He is God and that He ushered in the new covenant?

What does Hebrews 8:13 say?
By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

Did God use Rome is destroy Jerusalem for Gods purpose because they Rejected Jesus?

Luke 19:41-44
41 Now as He drew near, He saw the city and wept over it, 42 saying, “If you had known, even you, especially in this your day, the things that make for your peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes. 43 For days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment around you, surround you and close you in on every side, 44 and level you, and your children within you, to the ground; and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not know the time of your visitation.”

Now look at what the beast did to Babylon the great for Gods purpose

Revelation 17:16:17
16 The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire. 17 For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to hand over to the beast their royal authority, until God’s words are fulfilled

Now let’s say for arguments sake that Babylon the great is Jerusalem doesn’t it make sense especially in history? Plus the fact that my 10 biblical facts that link Babylon the great to Jerusalem.

Jesus did usher in the new covenant and the temple had to be destroyed to do it. God does end Jerusalems reign and move to the heavenly Jerusalem.
 

David Boyer

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Yeah it is a metaphor, for a 'certain' idea in Bible Scripture, and something you apparently are not familiar with.

Rev 18:11-19
11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,
13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.
14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.
15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,
16 And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!
17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,

18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!
19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

KJV

Can't narrow that down to just one city with those descriptions in red above. It's about INTERNATIONAL TRADE BY SEA by the merchants of the earth, and that does NOT mean merchants and ships of just one region of the earth, like the theory from men you have latched onto. It is about SYSTEM OF WORLD COMMERCE. The ships idea is only being used as a METAPHOR for world trade.

And if you had understood what God showed in Ezekiel 28 in parable about Satan, and world commerce involving the rock island of Tyre, linked to Satan, then you would have begun to grasp how that history connects with this coming one-world beast kingdom that the Harlot city will be over for the end of this world.


Tyre was not the island and that was just the military outpost. Tyre was the mainland city that is no longer there that Hannibal dismantled to create a land bridge to get to the island fortress. If I remember my history correctly.

Who is the largest trading partner in the world right now to sell into? What percentage of world trade would be affected if USA were wiped of the earth tomorrow? Would all who trade by sea be very upset or just inconvenienced?
 

David Boyer

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Revelation 1:1
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place

So it is the revelation of Jesus Christ. So who is Jesus and what did He do?

Do you agree that He is God and that He ushered in the new covenant?

What does Hebrews 8:13 say?
By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

Did God use Rome is destroy Jerusalem for Gods purpose because they Rejected Jesus?

Luke 19:41-44
41 Now as He drew near, He saw the city and wept over it, 42 saying, “If you had known, even you, especially in this your day, the things that make for your peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes. 43 For days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment around you, surround you and close you in on every side, 44 and level you, and your children within you, to the ground; and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not know the time of your visitation.”

Now look at what the beast did to Babylon the great for Gods purpose

Revelation 17:16:17
16 The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire. 17 For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to hand over to the beast their royal authority, until God’s words are fulfilled

Now let’s say for arguments sake that Babylon the great is Jerusalem doesn’t it make sense especially in history? Plus the fact that my 10 biblical facts that link Babylon the great to Jerusalem.

Jesus did usher in the new covenant and the temple had to be destroyed to do it. God does end Jerusalems reign and move to the heavenly Jerusalem.

Yes it is the revelation of Jesus Christ. I agree.
Next 2 questions have no basis in Rev 1:1 so no comment.
Heb 8:13 is not a Revelation verse so no comment.
Luke is not a Revelation verse so no comment.
"Does it make sense especially in history?" What????
What 10 biblical facts?

Your argumentation is Swiss Cheese at best and a fever dream at it's very best.
 

Marty fox

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Yes it is the revelation of Jesus Christ. I agree.
Next 2 questions have no basis in Rev 1:1 so no comment.
Heb 8:13 is not a Revelation verse so no comment.
Luke is not a Revelation verse so no comment.
"Does it make sense especially in history?" What????
What 10 biblical facts?

Your argumentation is Swiss Cheese at best and a fever dream at it's very best.

What happens to Babylon the great happed to Jerusalem.

The ten facts I posted that you commented on in post #47.

If it’s the revelation of Jesus then what Jesus said or did does relate.

Hebrews says that the old covenant and the temple age would soon disappear and it did and Jesus did it thus if it’s the revelation of Jesus then it does apply.

Let scripture interpret scripture.
 
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Desire Of All Nations

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This is an example of people confusing themselves and other people because they won't allow the Bible to speak for itself or interpret its own symbols. The Bible is clear about the identity of the Rev. 17 woman that rides the beast. A woman in bible prophecy always refers to a church(2 Cor. 11:2, Eph. 5:22-32, Jer. 3:14, etc.)

The Rev. 17 woman is dressed in worldly attire. Therefore, the message being conveyed is that this woman represents a religious system that was established by men and not God. This woman is also described in verses 2-3 as practicing abominations, being full of blasphemy, wields political influence over the rulers of this world, and has governed over multiple incarnations of the Roman empire. So we can know that this church isn't just any church, but a counterfeit Christian church system that has worldwide reach and influence.

The chapter gives further clues where it says this counterfeit Christian system is steeped in the traditions of the Babylonian Mystery religions, gave birth to protesting churches who practices the same abominable traditions, has historically persecuted and murdered people who lived by God's laws, and has deceived the entire world with its false doctrines.

Put all of the clues together, and you can easily see that this woman represents the Catholic church system.
 

David Boyer

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This is an example of people confusing themselves and other people because they won't allow the Bible to speak for itself or interpret its own symbols. The Bible is clear about the identity of the Rev. 17 woman that rides the beast. A woman in bible prophecy always refers to a church(2 Cor. 11:2, Eph. 5:22-32, Jer. 3:14, etc.)

The Rev. 17 woman is dressed in worldly attire. Therefore, the message being conveyed is that this woman represents a religious system that was established by men and not God. This woman is also described in verses 2-3 as practicing abominations, being full of blasphemy, wields political influence over the rulers of this world, and has governed over multiple incarnations of the Roman empire. So we can know that this church isn't just any church, but a counterfeit Christian church system that has worldwide reach and influence.

The chapter gives further clues where it says this counterfeit Christian system is steeped in the traditions of the Babylonian Mystery religions, gave birth to protesting churches who practices the same abominable traditions, has historically persecuted and murdered people who lived by God's laws, and has deceived the entire world with its false doctrines.

Put all of the clues together, and you can easily see that this woman represents the Catholic church system.

"multiple incarnations of the Roman empire"... citation required. Chapter and Verse please.
Why not just read the text instead of grabbing clues from the edges of the ether?
Are there any Born Again Catholics? If so then your entire argument falls as you say the entire Catholic church system is "established by men not God".
I would see the Catholic church as modern day Pharisees or Sadducee's. A broken system, but with the hope of redemption.
Why are you attacking what could be a different arm of the Body of Christ? Why not just say the Church of England are of the Whores church system? Or the Baptists?
I don't concede your first point of a woman is ALWAYS a church. The very text of Revelation says that the Whore is a city... Is every city in prophecy also a church?
Why are you arguing with John and Jesus when they say that the Whore is a city? Who was lying? John or Jesus(in the vision He showed John)? Maybe the angel (a messenger of God) lied who told John about who the Whore was?

Tell me who is telling the truth and who is telling "porky pies"?
Is Jesus LYING?
Is John LYING?
Is the messenger of God LYING?
Or might you be mistaken?
Which one of these four options best fit with your theology?
 

David Boyer

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What happens to Babylon the great happed to Jerusalem.

The ten facts I posted that you commented on in post #47.

If it’s the revelation of Jesus then what Jesus said or did does relate.

Hebrews says that the old covenant and the temple age would soon disappear and it did and Jesus did it thus if it’s the revelation of Jesus then it does apply.

Let scripture interpret scripture.
Revelation is not to be interpreted, just read, heard, and kept. Rev 1:3