Christ as the firstborn

Sure it begins spiritually in us as individuals but John is here also being used as the narrator of what will come to be in, by and through Christ. How do we know that?

Simple.

Did every mountain and hill shall be made low become true at that time? They will eventually.

What do the mountains and the hills and the valleys represent Nomad? Here is a couple clues:

Isaiah 2:17 “And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.”

Isaiah 40:4 “Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain:”

There's a lot more to John the Baptist's quoting from Isaiah 40 about Christ's coming...

Luke 3:2-6
2 Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.
3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;
4 As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make His paths straight.
5 Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth;
6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.
(KJV)

The part in underline John quoted from Isaiah 40. And it has a dual time application, once for Christ's first coming before the Jews would refuse Him, and then the rest of it in final at Christ's second coming to establish His literal Kingdom here on earth with a rod of iron, ruling over all nations. If Judah in Jerusalem had accepted Jesus of Nazareth as God The Saviour at His first coming, then the Kingdom would have come then.


So the following prophecy is still not yet complete...


Isa 40:1-11
1 Comfort ye, comfort ye My people, saith your God.
2 Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the LORD's hand double for all her sins.

Is warfare already accomplished for Jerusalem today? No. There's still yet a great sin to come upon Jerusalem for the days just prior to Christ's second coming. It involves the harlot working of Rev.17. And then the battle of Armageddon is still yet. This should cause us to look further as to why John quoted this for Christ's first coming. The Way of The LORD through Christ is the part of this prophecy that was fulfilled at Christ's first coming. But, the rest of it is set for Christ's second coming which is still future.


3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
4 Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain:

This Isaiah 40 Scripture is applied to both of Christ's advents. But the detail given is especially about His second advent (coming) yet to occur.


Isa 11:16
16 And there shall be an highway for the remnant of His people, which shall be left, from Assyria; like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt.
(KJV)

Isa 43:19
19 Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert.
(KJV)

Isa 19:22-25
22 And the LORD shall smite Egypt: he shall smite and heal it: and they shall return even to the LORD, and He shall be intreated of them, and shall heal them.
23 In that day shall there be a highway out of Egypt to Assyria, and the Assyrian shall come into Egypt, and the Egyptian into Assyria, and the Egyptians shall serve with the Assyrians.
24 In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land:
25 Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, "Blessed be Egypt My people, and Assyria the work of My hands, and Israel Mine inheritance."
(KJV)

There's going to be a literal Highway in that time of His future Kingdom on earth spanning from Egypt, through the land of Israel, and up into Assyria. The deserts in those areas are literally going to blossum, most likely from God's River per Ezekiel 47 that will flow eastward out of His House in the future Millennium Jerusalem under Christ Jesus.


Isaiah 40:5 And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

There it is, a dual prophecy involving both of Christ's advents. That "glory" has a special meaning for what was manifested at Christ's first coming, and also what will manifest on eath at His second coming.


Isa.40:6 The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field:
7 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the LORD bloweth upon it: surely the people is grass.
8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.

Our flesh bodies are like grass, and when God releases the four winds upon the earth at the "last trump" when His vengeance occurs at Christ's second coming, this will serve as the ultimate meaning of flesh as grass; yet The Word of God shall still stand, even forever.


Isa.40:9 O Zion, that bringest good tidings, get thee up into the high mountain; O Jerusalem, that bringest good tidings, lift up thy voice with strength; lift it up, be not afraid; say unto the cities of Judah, Behold your God!

Boy, now that really applied to Christ's first coming to Jerusalem. But it's also for His second coming also.


Isa.40:10 Behold, the Lord GOD will come with strong hand, and His arm shall rule for Him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.
11 He shall feed his flock like a shepherd: he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosom, and shall gently lead those that are with young.
(KJV)

These two verses above are definitely for the time of Christ's future reign with a "strong hand". That gathering applied to the time of His first coming, to separate His called out ones, and it also applies to their future gathering by Christ at His second coming.

Now in a spiritual sense we find that upon Christ's ascension to sit on his Father's throne at his Father's right hand the following became true"

Colossians 2:15 "And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it."

But that yet will result in a literal fulfillment as we are able to glean from those verses in Isaiah and many more.

Beautiful Veteran!!!

I had not seen your post yet when I stated the above and posted it.

We are on the same track.

Thank you You just gave me opportunity to take a break my body is hounding of me.

Nomad said:

When it comes to Biblical exegesis, have either one of you ever heard of the word "context?"

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Context?

What context has Nomad contributed over these past 100 or so posts?

Contentious questions is all...and he has the gall to question context!

Insight

Isa 40:1

The truth is Nomad, the COMFORT of Isaiah 40 would not come through John the Baptist though he was “a” voice crying in the wilderness – his message as you know was to prepare Israel for a prophet (not Yahweh) who would be greater than Moses.

The comfort of Isaiah 40:1 comes in different forms of the same Hebrew verb signifying 'comfort' or 'repent'. True Comfort and consolation would only come after repentance!

So Isa 40 is simply teaching you of Israel's repentance for some then, but for many yet to come.

So where John the Baptist is called upon to be that voice of God crying to the nation to "Repent!" (see Mat 3:2) to which many like yourself resisted by holding onto the teachings of men.

We find another massager will be sent to prepare the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ – but his work is very different. This prophet like unto John the Baptist will restore all things! See Mal 4:5 & Matt 17:11.

SEE, I (Yahweh) WILL SEND YOU THE PROPHET ELIJAH BEFORE THAT GREAT AND DREADFUL DAY OF THE LORD COMES

An angel later told John the Baptist's parents that their son would minister in the spirit and power of Elijah (Luke 1:17).

Yet John denied that he was Elijah (John 1:21,22,23).

Jesus said that John would have been the Elijah who was to come if the people of his day had accepted Jesus as their Messiah (Mat 11:14).

Since they did not, John did not fulfill this prophecy about Elijah coming, though he did fulfill the prophecy about Messiah's forerunner (Mal 3:1).

This interpretation has in its favor Jesus' words following the Transfiguration (and John the Baptist's death).

Jesus said that Elijah would come and restore all things (Mat 17:11) which John was not able to do due to Israel’s unbelief, choosing not accept Jesus into their homes! John 1:11

Elijah will be sent forth to regather the lost tribes of Israel for the sole purpose of the coronation of Jesus Christ as their King.

I just awoke from a long nap I needed because I was not feeling well.

Nomad has just heard at the mouth of three modern day witnesses.

He saw Veteran enter in at just the right moment for me to be relieved.

He has now read a beautiful completion to this witness through the words of Insight.

Three in scripture spoke by one spirit and three standing here today spoke by that same one spirit to Nomad.

An obvious effort is being made of God to reach through to you Nomad.

I am not one who can say what might happen if you continue now to resist.

Vengle said:

I just awoke from a long nap I needed because I was not feeling well.

Nomad has just heard at the mouth of three modern day witnesses.

He saw Veteran enter in at just the right moment for me to be relieved.

He has now read a beautiful completion to this witness through the words of Insight.

Three in scripture spoke by one spirit and three standing here today spoke by that same one spirit to Nomad.

An obvious effort is being made of God to reach through to you Nomad.

I am not one who can say what might happen if you continue now to resist.

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We have found over the past 200 or so posts how destructive Trinitarian theology is to a simple Bible story. Anyone who reads these posts will see how disabled Nomad has been in defending his Trinity teachings, but also how beautiful and consistent the belief in a single all powerful God can be to those who grasp its truth.

Insight

Prentis said:

Rather he is God, come to us in the flesh, that he might be one with us, and we might be one with him, in the new creation.

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This is exactly what Paul taught here.

1 Timothy 3
16 -------------- God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by messengers, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.




.

us2are1 said:

This is exactly what Paul taught here.

1 Timothy 3
16 -------------- God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by messengers, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

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Good quote.

I wonder why Jesus needed to be justified (or "made" right or righteous) if he was in fact God?

Insight

“vindicated by the spirit” The Bible is very plain speaking about Jesus being like all other men, in his nature and the temptations which he “had” to undergo, he was different in that he never succumbed to the lusts of the flesh 1 John 2:16 , no not once! By his “whole life” he condemned sin in the flesh (Rom 8:3), becoming "dead to sin". And when Christ died, death could have no more dominion over him: "He that is dead is freed from sin" (Rom 6:7; Heb 2:14).

Because of his death and sinless life the grave had no more dominion over Jesus or God, for He declared His (God’s) own righteousness in condemning Jesus' body of sin (Rom 3:26), He demonstrated His mercy as well in raising Christ from the dead to eternal life. Jesus was "declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection of the dead" (Rom 1:4). In this Jesus was "vindicated" or "endorsed" as the Greek word signifies (Mat 11:19; Luke 10:29). Jesus was justified (declared just or righteous) in the spirit by being "born of the spirit" through a resurrection to life (Rom 1:4; 1 Pe 3:18):

"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ" (Acts 2:36).

Not God!

It is true that Jesus Christ's resurrection to life was a proof of his righteousness and an example and guarantee to those "in Christ" that they might similarly be accounted righteous through him (Rom 4:25).

Vindicated means:

1) to render righteous or such he ought to be

2) to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered

3) to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

KJV - justified in the Spirit

NET- vindicated by the Spirit

NIV - was vindicated by the Spirit

Young - declared righteous in spirit

God vindicated or rendered Jesus righteous.

But Himself...God will NEVER need vindicating orto be made righteous by the spirit...HE is Spirit!!!...God is the sole source of Righteousness and Holiness and has no need from any power to justify Him at all !!!

Insight said:

Good quote.

I wonder why Jesus needed to be justified (or "made" right or righteous) if he was in fact God?

Insight

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He was the tried stone the precious corner stone. He was tested and found worthy. If you need something done you have to do it yourself. It was His Spirit that did it all anyway.

Isaiah 28
16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste .

Revelation 5
4 So I wept much, because no one was found worthy to open and read the scroll, or to look at it.
5 But one of the elders said to me, "Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals."



.

us2are1 said:

. He was tested and found worthy.

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Tested how?

us2are1 said:

He was the tried stone the precious corner stone. He was tested and found worthy. If you need something done you have to do it yourself. It was His Spirit that did it all anyway.

Isaiah 28
16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste .


Revelation 5
4 So I wept much, because no one was found worthy to open and read the scroll, or to look at it.
5 But one of the elders said to me, "Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals."

.

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"I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone"

The description of the beginning of the building of the spiritual temple, showing that Christ just as the Apostles were stones of that building's structure.

Ephesians 2:18 "For through him (Jesus) we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone (Revelation 22:9);
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit."

So that is very appropriate what you point out us2are1. We see how it is that Jesus manifest Yahweh to us. His Father's spirit is able to have communion with him because Jesus is holy in his own spirit.

In taking the many on whom his Father called to him to be as brothers (Romans 8:29) Jesus taught them by the bath in the water of the Word to themselves become holy in their spirits that they might also enjoy that same communion as Jesus with his Father's spirit.

Thus they being joined together as one body with Jesus "the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord".

Yes, into a holy city among whose holy people God is able to reside. "builded together (with Jesus as the chief cornerstone) for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

They did not become literally God. But they became one body with Christ and like as Christ they are now able to have direct approach to God by spirit.

The Father is thus now manifested to them just as the Father is, was and has been from Jesus' beginning, manifest to Jesus.

Thus they are even said to set upon Jesus' throne with him, all of them together (including Jesus as the chief among them) sitting next to and at the right hand of the Father in the Father's throne.

Revelation 3:21 "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne."

How dare anyone resist (or worse, seek to hide) such a beautiful and all important picture of what Our wonderful God is doing in His Son.

Now I want to point out something about Ephesians 2: 21 " In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:"

The phrase "in the Lord" at the end there, is not what the original language text actually says. I will explain.

The word "the" does not occur there with "lord". "Lord" occurs there with an absence of the definite article. And "lord" minus that definite article actually means "supreme in authority".

So it is actually telling us that this holy temple (Christ and his brethren) exists jointly sharing the supreme authority given it of the Father Yahweh.

That's it right there!

We see how it is that Jesus manifest Yahweh to us.

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Anyone who uses the word "manifest" in this way has truth.

Insight said:

Good quote.

I wonder why Jesus needed to be justified (or "made" right or righteous) if he was in fact God?

Insight

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The first problem here is that you misunderstand what is meant be "justified." This word, like all words, has semantic range. It's exact or intended meaning is determined by our friend "context."

The second problem is glaring and constant. A verse like 1 Tim. 3:16 is clear enough in what it says. However, you simply fall back on your philosophical presuppositions and hang-ups to deny it. Your supposed reasoning trumps Scripture every time. One such example is the word "justified." If it is used of Jesus in any way, shape or form, he can't be God, according to you, despite the fact that 1 Tim. 3:16 and many other examples that I've provided here say he is God or Yahweh.

Now, back to 1 Tim. 3:16.

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Let's look at the possible meanings of the word "justified."

δικαιόω

dikaioō

Thayer Definition:

1) to render righteous or such he ought to be
2) to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3) to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G1342
Citing in TDNT: 2:211, 168

If Christ were "made righteous" as you claim, which would imply that he was somehow a sinner, he would have been useless as a savior. Jesus, himself, would have needed a savior. Remember, Christ was the lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world. A sacrificial lamb had to be spotless.

1Pe 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
1Pe 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. . .

Now we can see that "made righteous" is not possible via Scripture, not human reasoning and philosophical hang-ups. So what does the word "justified" mean when applied to Christ? It's very simple. Christ was "vindicated" from all accusation. Does this match any of the possible definitions of Thayer's definition of the Greek for "justified." It sure does. "vindicated" means to be demonstrated or declared to be right or righteous. Read the following:

(2) “Vindicated by the Spirit.”

Not everyone saw his glory. “He was despised, and rejected of men” (Is. 55:3). By his enemies his claims were denied, and he himself was cast out (Heb. 13:12). But by the Spirit he was vindicated: his own perfect righteousness and the validity of his claims were fully established.

The A.V. and the R.S.V. are entirely correct in spelling Spirit with a capital letter, as referring to the Holy Spirit. The combination “flesh” and “Spirit” has scriptural warrant. Note: “And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us as in a tent. And we beheld his glory, a glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth … And John testified, saying, I beheld the Spirit like a dove descending from heaven, and he remained on him” (John 1:14, 32; cf. 3:34). Having been thus anointed by the Holy Spirit (Ps. 2:2; 45:7; Matt. 3:16; Mark 1:10; Luke 3:22; Acts 4:27; 10:38), he was able, while in the “flesh” (the weakened human nature), to perform miracles, to cast out demons, etc. (Matt. 12:28). By means of every deed of power his justice was established, for surely the Holy Spirit would not have given this power to a sinner (John 9:31). But it was especially by means of his resurrection from the dead that the Spirit fully vindicated the claim of Jesus that he was the Son of God (Rom. 1:4).

Hendriksen, William ; Kistemaker, Simon J.: New Testament Commentary : Exposition of the Pastoral Epistles. Grand Rapids : Baker Book House, 1953-2001 (New Testament Commentary 4), S. 140

OK.

Let us examine 1 Timothy 3:16 closer.

I sympathize. Out wising ourselves is common to us all.

Give us a second.

Your key (which you must be willing to use) is:

Matthew 11:27 "All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him."

Luke 10:22 "All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him."


The answer lay right there in front of your nose and I lay it before you first without further explanation in hopes that you might pick it up and use it, thus marking the beginning of a new and humble walk for you.

Not quite getting it yet?

Here is a little help:

John 6:44 "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

Use your spiritual insight.

It is as a muscle which must be used that it may grow stronger.

If I keep giving you the answers directly I will be helping to keep you weak and you will just trample what I speak.

If you see it by your own effort born of willingness to try, you will be delighted and embrace it joyfully.

My desire is that you not be dependent upon any man. To allow you to become dependent as many preachers do their flocks is like asking you to kneel at their feet. We are just fellow servants.

Did Jesus have to be manifested to this world? And does that fact of necessity make him God?

I will leave it there with you for now.

Vengle,

What in the world does any of that have to do with 1 Tim. 3:16 and the way in which the word "justified" is applied to Jesus???

Nomad said:

Vengle,

What in the world does any of that have to do with 1 Tim. 3:16 and the way in which the word "justified" is applied to Jesus???

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No man can understand when he pushes up from a faulty foundation.

Nomad sees in in his mind that Jesus was manifest as God to this world.

To kill a weed ( a false belief) you must attack its roots. Else it will only seem for a second to be gone if at all.

Vengle said:

No man can understand when he pushes up from a faulty foundation.

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I agree. You and Insight should take this to heart. Your "reasoning" and "philosophical hang-ups" should never be allowed to trump the clear teaching of Scripture. Scripture is our foundation and final authority. Therein is presupposition valid. Just because you two can't wrap your brain around a particular Biblical concept, such as Jesus is Yahweh, doesn't mean that it can't be true. Thanks for the reminder.

Nomad said:

I agree. You and Insight should take this to heart. Your "reasoning" and "philosophical hang-ups" should never be allowed to trump the clear teaching of Scripture. Scripture is our foundation and final authority. Therein is presupposition valid. Just because you two can't wrap your brain around a particular Biblical concept, such as Jesus is Yahweh, doesn't mean that it can't be true. Thanks for the reminder.

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Thank you for that honest statement.

A man's heart is like soil in which seed of God's truth and/or darnel weed (imitation truths) become planted.

A man must be willing to critique his own roots to prove their quality before change can take place.

When we see that anyone only seeks to protect the roots in their heart rather than humbly being willing to examine their quality, we may as well forget them, at least until another time when that may have changed. Perhaps another worker will come along and find that it is then different.

I desire all the best for you Nomad. I truly do love you.