Christ as the firstborn

How was it that Jesus “condemned sin in the flesh”?

One thing is for certain. A lot of clamor about unrelated thoughts and ideas by virtue of having misunderstood those things only sends our thoughts to Sheboygan instead of in the direction of the answers we need.

That really is the basis of what Paul said at 2 Timothy 3:7 “Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.”

Those mistaken ideas which might otherwise be seen as totally unrelated to our main question or as shedding a different light toward the answer to that question act as padlocks which lock out our ability to see.

How was it that Jesus “condemned sin in the flesh”?

Paul did not always mean the literal fleshly body per say in his use of the word.

Paul presented the picture to us of our choice to be one of two different kinds of persons.


One person whom we can choose to be is the spiritual man. He is the spiritual man in that his mind’s focus is not on self and searching to find good in his own self to satisfy himself. He knows that one is good and that one is God. He knows that James 1:17 “Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.” And he therefore looks strictly to God to find that which is good, for he insightfully knows that his flesh can only truly be pleased in the goodness that comes of listening to and obeying God.

The other person is a slave to the things pertaining to the physical because that is where his mental focus is and thus he is “in the flesh” meaning in a fleshly (or, carnal) mindset (Romans 8: 7). That is where Adam chose to be so that he would not have to lose Eve. (Though I have no doubt in my mind that if Adam had trusted fully in God’s loves he may have been able to salvage Eve. And I believe that is where we find the principle of one spouse being sanctified in the other originates. 1 Corinthians 7:14 “For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.”)

Jesus was certainly not that slave of self on the cross.

So then, How was it that Jesus “condemned sin in the flesh”?

Could it be by nailing that document that sin used to give it its power to kill to the cross with him?

Romans 7:10-11 "And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me."

Colossians 2:13-14 "And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross..."

Does that mean the Law was bad? No way!!! And God was not going to leave that Law in place for sin to continue to use it in a wrong way which violated God's merciful love that has to be used to temper that Law. God never intended to leave that Law stand in place but added it only as a temporary guardian and tutor to convict of sin in our hearts and thus lead us to see our great need of Christ in a way that we could benefit from Christ.

Vengle said:

How was it that Jesus “condemned sin in the flesh”?

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Yes God condemned sin “in” the flesh of Jesus Christ.

One thing is for certain. A lot of clamor about unrelated thoughts and ideas by virtue of having misunderstood those things only sends our thoughts to Sheboygan instead of in the direction of the answers we need.

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This is noise and confusion.

That really is the basis of what Paul said at 2 Timothy 3:7 “Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.”


Those mistaken ideas which might otherwise be seen as totally unrelated to our main question or as shedding a different light toward the answer to that question act as padlocks which lock out our ability to see.

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Waiting for Rom 8:3 – Rom 8:1 – 1 John 2:16 – Gen 3:1,2,3,4,5,6,and so on to be answered.

How was it that Jesus “condemned sin in the flesh”?

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Ok…yes?

Paul did not always mean the literal fleshly body per say in his use of the word.

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True it is in many senses but always related to sin and death.


Can sin’s flesh stand before God?


That no flesh should glory in his presence 1 Cor 1:29


Why?

Paul presented the picture to us of our choice to be one of two different kinds of persons.



One person whom we can choose to be is the spiritual man. He is the spiritual man in that his mind’s focus is not on self and searching to find good in his own self to satisfy himself. He knows that one is good and that one is God.

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This is true there is no inherent goodness in sins’ flesh because of the inherent weakness of temptation leading to sin followed by death.

He knows that James 1:17 “Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.” And he therefore looks strictly to God to find that which is good, for he insightfully knows that his flesh can only truly be pleased in the goodness that comes of listening to and obeying God.

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Rom 8:8 - No one dwelling in sin’s flesh can please God. Meaning if ones thinking is driven by 1 John 2:16 that person is dead –eternally.


However


For to be carnally (animal) minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace


Salvation only comes when another mode of thinking, styled the spiritually minded – this comes from the implanted Word of God (James 1:21) consumed by hearing (Rom 10:17)


The Flesh cannot change and is inherently wicked “unless” another mind governs it feelings. Although even in this the Masters inherited (Gal 4:4) flesh, bought about a death via a sentence, which from his birth condemned him to death.


He received no wages from his inherited nature (Rom 6:23) and therefore broken or removed the enmity in the flesh nailing it to the cross.


Rom 8:3 – Heb 12:30 can now apply as Jesus becomes a perfect representation of crucifying the flesh and its lusts. Gal 5:24

The other person is a slave to the things pertaining to the physical because that is where his mental focus is and thus he is “in the flesh” meaning in a fleshly (or, carnal) mindset (Romans 8: 7).

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This is true but sadly you cannot see how it applied to Jesus Christ.


How many times did Jesus personally die to sin? Rom 6:10


Answer____________


But what did he personally need to do in this verse for this to happen?


Answer____________

That is where Adam chose to be so that he would not have to lose Eve.

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This is one of the hypothetical scenarios “what if” which is not worthy of discussion and has not fruits attached.

(Though I have no doubt in my mind that if Adam had trusted fully in God’s loves he may have been able to salvage Eve. And I believe that is where we find the principle of one spouse being sanctified in the other originates. 1 Corinthians 7:14 “For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.”)


Jesus was certainly not that slave of self on the cross.

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Correct he did not become a slave to sin although his flesh was held under its condemnation. Mean that he was born and grew older and matured and eventually would have died of old age.


Death was at work in his members because the consequence of sin was in his condemned nature.


Rom 6:23 is the law though he knew no sin of his own.


Vengle a better way to say this “Jesus was certainly not that slave of self on the cross” is to say Jesus was never a slave to the sentiments of the flesh though he was held under deaths dominion.


Crucifying his condemned nature and never giving into its desires he broke the law of sin leading to death in that he did not earn sin’s wages and therefore death could not hold him in the grave.


Death holds us because we earn the wages of sin, both moral and inherited death doomed nature.


Freedom from this nature can only be achieved as it was in Christ.


Gal 5:24 will lead to being raised with him Rom 6:8.

So then, How was it that Jesus “condemned sin in the flesh”?


Could it be by nailing that document that sin used to give it its power to kill to the cross with him?

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So you feel more comforted in nailing a document, rather than the weak substance that made that document ineffective?


You need to read Rom 8:3 again, and again to see what made the Law weak.


And ask the question why?

Romans 7:10-11 "And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me."

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Yes the KJV has "which was ordained to life". In other words "Keep my decrees and laws, for the man who obeys them will live by them" (Lev 18:5).


"If you want to enter life, obey the commandments" (Mat 19:17). "Do this and you will live" (Luk 10:28). Cp also Eze 20:11,13,21; Rom 10:5; Gal 3:12.


You have highlighted it was intended for life, but no one ever kept the Law (Rom 3:9,10).


In addition, the Law could never give life of itself, but drew attention to the means of life, namely faith in the Everlasting Covenant, ie, the Abrahamic covenant which had been sealed with the blood of Christ (Heb 13:20; Gal 3:24).


Yes that same covenant Vengle which Jesus Christ was saved and washed by though your eyes cannot see this reality.


It hurt’s your mind because you cannot see clearly the problem of sin and transgression.


The truth concerning the Law and ordinances is that it actually brought death because no one could keep it perfectly (except Christ).


You will remember what the Israelites promised, "We will do everything the LORD has said" (Exo 19:8; 24:3).


But they did not do so, and thus perished in the wilderness (1Cor 10:5).

Colossians 2:13-14 "And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross..."

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So you quote the very token of the covenant to which Jesus fulfilled perfectly the circumcision of his flesh?


Who was circumcised on the eight day? And who cut that flesh every day in agony until the final great cutting in his death?


Compare for truth Luke 1:59 (John) Luke 2:21 (Jesus) with Gen 17:5 – Acts 7:5 - Read Gen 17!

Does that mean the Law was bad? No way!!! And God was not going to leave that Law in place for sin to continue to use it in a wrong way which violated God's merciful love that has to be used to temper that Law.

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Correct the Law was Holy and Just!


The Flesh made the Law weak because it revealed man to be a sinner and showed the flesh, as being only fit for destruction, like the millions of animals slain, whilst the offerer placed their hand on the forehand of the animal while its throat was cut. Symbolic of the putting to death of the carnal mind, always dormant in the flesh waiting to rise up and take possession of its victim.

God never intended to leave that Law stand in place but added it only as a temporary guardian and tutor to convict of sin in our hearts and thus lead us to see our great need of Christ in a way that we could benefit from Christ.

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This is true.


In conclusion, it has become evident that Vengle continues to talk around the problem of flesh but never fully admitting to sins ownership.


Once this is achieved Rom 8:3 and many other passages with come to light.


Insight

How is Jesus a perfect representation of crucifying the flesh and its lusts. Gal 5:24

Maybe by understanding the great SUFFERRING Christ went through and yet denied his own flesh’s own desire for relief from it preferring to be faithful to his father’s will?

Anyone that thinks when someone sweats droplets of blood that their flesh is not lusting for relief has to be short a few brain cells.

Can anyone find even one Bible verse which actually says that God, “condemned sin in the flesh of Jesus Christ”?

Romans 8:3 does not say that. ^_^

It only seems to say that to one who does not understand what it means by "in the likeness of sinful flesh".

We will hit that one head on shortly but I want you to first get your feet in as deeply here are you have with your students so that you will appreciate what you then need to do to correct the damage you have done. You will then let it be cause to try even harder to teach them the truth.

Or, maybe you won't. ^_^

Vengle said:

How is Jesus a perfect representation of crucifying the flesh and its lusts. Gal 5:24

Maybe by understanding the great SUFFERRING Christ went through and yet denied his own flesh’s own desire for relief from it preferring to be faithful to his father’s will?

Can anyone find even one Bible verse which actually says that God, “condemned sin in the flesh of Jesus Christ”?

Romans 8:3 does not say that. ^_^

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Oh dear

Did you just read that? Read it again and then take another look at Rom 8:3


3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his (Yahweh) own Son (Jesus) in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,

I never thought I would see you wrest Scripture so blatantly my friend.

That last post was not your finest moment in this thread.

Insight

Heb 2:14,15
2 Cor 5:21
Rom 6:10
Heb 7:27
Heb 13:20
Rom 8:1
Gal 5:24

Bible translators are just as the rest of us humans in that they must learn as they go. As a result though they give it their best effort what they do not yet know creeps evident into their translations as at certain places they are forced to basically guess at what a word is conveying.

At Romans 8:3 the word translated “of sinful” is Strong’s Greek Dictionary G0266 – “hamartia”.
But the actual Greek word which means “sinful” is G0268 – “hamartolos”.

What is the difference between the two Greek words?

The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon says of 0264 that: It is a Verb
Its definition is:
(1) to be without a share in
(2) to miss the mark
(3) to err, be mistaken
(4) to miss or wander from the path of uprightness and honour, to do or go wrong
(5) to wander from the law of God, violate God's law, sin

So we see that 0264 refers not to a nature but to an actual act.

This keeps with Aristotle's use of the word in his literature. In modern times the word's meaning is often found misapplied.

What are the implications of this then to the way we might understand Romans 8:3?

That what Paul wrote was, "God sending his own Son in the likeness of the flesh which was committing err."

It has nothing to do with the err being in that flesh but that God sent his Son in the likeness of man, period, for it is not at all speaking of a nature. The fact that they are also the ones who commit sin is only mentioned as that was what he came to put an end to.

Then in the final phrase it speaks that purpose out-rightly, "condemned sin in ("in" there means more precisely, "among") the flesh ("the flesh" meaning "the flesh of men")". Paul means "among all mankind" or "among men". "The [singular] flesh" is just a way to refer to that as it is shared in common by all.

Vengle said:

Bible translators are just as the rest of us humans in that they must learn as they go. As a result though they give it their best effort what they do not yet know creeps evident into their translations as at certain places they are forced to basically guess at what a word is conveying.

At Romans 8:3 the word translated “of sinful” is Strong’s Greek Dictionary G0266 – “hamartia”.
But the actual Greek word which means “sinful” is G0268 – “hamartolos”.

What is the difference between the two Greek words?

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When in doubt...

"en" merely means "among" there as it is also rendered many places in the NT, such as at 1 Thessalonians 5:13.

Sorry, the editor timed out on me or I would have put this comment at the end of post #565

I know that the text speaks in the singular but that is because there is one flesh for all men and that is Adam's flesh.

So though "en" is properly translated as "in" by the grammar rules for its use in that text (it being used with the singular flesh as the focus), the fact that it means in the thing that is common to all men means that it is the same as saying, "among men".

when we see that word flesh we should get in the habit of seeing it as "the flesh of Adam". That way many might avoid the mistake of thinking it means in their body and will see that it means in the body of mankind, Adam's flesh, irrespective of Adam's sin. For we are Adam's body regardless of the fact that he sinned.

Vengle said:

Bible translators are just as the rest of us humans in that they must learn as they go. As a result though they give it their best effort what they do not yet know creeps evident into their translations as at certain places they are forced to basically guess at what a word is conveying.

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If one had written this to you Vengle you would shake your head and no doubt say to yourself...."lame".

Rom 8:3 unanswered

Sin could not have been condemned in the body of Jesus, if it had not existed there.

Why would God need to condemn sin in his Son?

Here is a clue Rom 3:25

Unanswered!

Isn't that what the Pharisees basically said to Jesus?

Maybe my hopes for you are too high. I hope not.

Jesus answered their questions. Rom 3:25

None of us should hesitate to learn the truth just because it may mean we have taught something wrong to others. And the more people we have taught the harder the fear would be for us to find out that we were wrong. Put that to rest through an even stronger faith in God and deeper appreciation for the greatness of His love and mercy to forgive us such things and use it to be added cause as Paul did to work harder at preaching the truth. Having been wrong works out a humility in us as nothing else can if we let it.

Here is an example of how when we see that word "flesh" it helps to see it as "Adam's flesh" or "the flesh of Adam":

Romans 7:5 "For when we were in the flesh [of Adam], the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death."

Understand that we are not any longer in the flesh of Adam because we have received rebirth to the last Adam and now we are a part of the last Adam's body, thus the "when we were" part of that verse. So when Romans 7:5 uses the word "members" it means the same as the members Paul described at Romans 12:4 or at 1 Corinthians 12:12 and in many other places of scripture. The comparison is those member that were in Adam's body but are now in the last Adam's body.

Romans 8:1 “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in [the body of] Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in [the body of] Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh [of the body of Adam], God sending his own Son in the likeness of hamartia (properly “the sinning” or “sin committing”) flesh [of the body of Adam], and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh [body of Adam]:

What did Christ say that relates to verse two there?
John 6:33 “For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.”
John 6:35 “And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.”
John 6:51 “I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
John 6:53 “Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.”

That symbolizes the life that is in the spiritual body of Christ. The most important way we eat of his body is by being fed from that spiritual body of Christ wherein God’s spirit is able to dwell and nourish its members.

Remember what Jesus also said:

John 17:8 "For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me."

John 6:63 "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Where are we to continue to get those life giving words? By feeding from his body wherein the spirit of God dwells.

John 6:68 "Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life."

We yet receive those life giving words from his body. He is yet with us in that body. That spiritual body is the all important place for us to dwell. That is the full need of the Father revealing the Son to us as Matthew 11:27 says.

It is impossible for any of us to find Christ today lest the Father leads us to him as his body is spiritual. And no man can find him to destroy him from out of this earth if they tried to. Apart from the Father's help they have no idea where he is at. That is but part of the reason God has allowed such a great web of religious confusion in this earth. But also to try us by fire and help us to learn.

Vengle said:

None of us should hesitate to learn the truth just because it may mean we have taught something wrong to others. And the more people we have taught the harder the fear would be for us to find out that we were wrong. Put that to rest through an even stronger faith in God and deeper appreciation for the greatness of His love and mercy to forgive us such things and use it to be added cause as Paul did to work harder at preaching the truth. Having been wrong works out a humility in us as nothing else can if we let it.

Here is an example of how when we see that word "flesh" it helps to see it as "Adam's flesh" or "the flesh of Adam":

Romans 7:5 "For when we were in the flesh [of Adam], the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death."

Understand that we are not any longer in the flesh of Adam because we have received rebirth to the last Adam and now we are a part of the last Adam's body, thus the "when we were" part of that verse.

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If we are not in Adam's nature then why would Paul ask you to do this? Gal 5:24?

You know better than this Vengle.

All flesh which is born of flesh is flesh and that flesh (John 3:6) will not be swallowed up until the end of the Millennium age. Rev 21:4

That is why Jesus represents us in that he is our example today to do as he did.

You are making this so hard for yourself, it hurts me to see you fighting against such a simple teaching as sin's flesh.

Insight

Your sin nature is a fallacy.

The same things worked in perfect Eve works in us. We have merely known nothing better before we found Christ. And our flesh which we all bear in common bears Adam's death sentence due to Adam's sin.

Even as the perfect Adam and Eve were able to sin and to lust and all of those things, it is worse for us by lack of a mentor until we truly find and enter Christ.

Then it is that (Romans 7:5) "... when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.


Don't be a fool the members of the body of Adam is our bodies. The members of the body of Christ is our bodies.

Matthew 6:24 "No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other..." Does that ring a bell?

You are saying that it is impossible to follow Christ and are too blind to see that is what you are saying.

Romans 6:19 "I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

In other words Paul was scolding them for clinging to the immaturity which was keeping them yet in the flesh of Adam instead of completing their rebirth into Christ.

Notice he said, "your flesh"; not his.

His had received the power of the life giving spirit in the body of Christ.

Romans 8:11-12 "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh."

I do not believe you will ever listen to know what you are being told. I put you on ignore for the reason that i believed I saw clear signs of that.

It only keeps getting clearer but my compassion toward your plight keeps me popping back in and trying. Still, having you on my ignore list has helped in other ways.

Don't resist to the point that you grieve the holy spirit and it quits trying to reach you.

I am sitting here Vengle thinking about a Bible Study I need to prepare on Heb 12. I found a beautiful point where Paul uses the word Author and finisher of the race which is set before us.

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. (Hebrews 12:2)

No doubt Paul would have seen the many colosseums and sporting arena's where boxers and athletes practiced their skills. I took particular note of the word "author" in relation to the sporting analogies within the chapter.

Take that verse in Gal 5:24. Is Jesus the captain of that verse?

What are the repercussions if our answer was no.

Not only did he completely run the same race but he was the first to finish that race - Heb 12:2

Jesus has lead the team, perfector of the race and now willing to help us finish also!

How did Jesus do it? Heb 12:2

While Jesus was overcoming every temptation to sin and all the trials the Father introduced to him what does it say about Jesus Christ?

Patience, endurance, suffering more than any man!

What drove Jesus on in Heb 12:2?

If you believe Jesus is the captain of his team and he in fact has run the race we must ask if he has run a different race than you and I. And the answer is no else he could not be our captain.

The Joy set before him !!!

Imagine those who believe Jesus is God and how his captaincy is an absolute mockery to those he represents.

It would be a race with a fixed end the like corupt punters would rub their hands together.

I know this is off the topic but thought it worthy of sharing.

Insight

Will your next objection be, "If it is our bodies that are members of Christ what did we leave die on the cross?"

Or do you see that was Adam's body of flesh that we left die on the cross for the very purpose of allowing us to yield our bodies as servants of God in the body of Christ, quickened of the spirit just as Romans 8:11-12 said and that we have become a new creation?

If we are a firstfruit with Christ.

Vengle said:

Your sin nature is a fallacy.

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The flesh is no fallacy Vengle!

The same things worked in perfect Eve works in us. We have merely known nothing better before we found Christ. And our flesh which we all bear in common bears Adam's death sentence due to Adam's sin.


Even as the perfect Adam and Eve were able to sin and to lust and all of those things, it is worse for us by lack of a mentor until we truly find and enter Christ.

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This doesn’t make a great deal of sense.


Was Eve born of a sinner?


How did her nature change after her sin?


What sentence was passed?


How did this sentence affect her progeny?

Then it is that (Romans 7:5) "... when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

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We discussed this Vengle.


Paul speaks in past tense because of faith but when will his actual flesh be changed?


Is Rom 7:20,21,22,23,24,25 past, present or future?

Don't be a fool the members of the body of Adam is our bodies. The members of the body of Christ is our bodies.


Matthew 6:24 "No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other..." Does that ring a bell?


You are saying that it is impossible to follow Christ and are too blind to see that is what you are saying.

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Never thought you would put words in my mouth.


Show me the post?

Romans 6:19 "I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.


In other words Paul was scolding them for clinging to the immaturity which was keeping them yet in the flesh of Adam instead of completing their rebirth into Christ.


Notice he said, "your flesh"; not his.

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That would because he is teaching us Vengle.


Again Rom 7:20,21,22,23,24,25 is Paul speking past, present of future?

His had received the power of the life giving spirit in the body of Christ.


Romans 8:11-12 "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh."

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Yes, speaking of the future changing of our vile bodies.

Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself. (Philippians 3:21)

What makes our bodies vile that they need changing Vengle?

Insight

Vengle said:

Will your next objection be, "If it is our bodies that are members of Christ what did we leave die on the cross?"

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The flesh is vile because of the law of sin which leads to death.

It must be put to death and in its current state is of no value to God at all...its damaged goods, sick, leperous and full of deciet and every evil thing.

Or do you see that was Adam's body of flesh that we left die on the cross for the very purpose of allowing us to yield our bodies as servants of God in the body of Christ, quickened of the spirit just as Romans 8:11-12 said and that we have become a new creation?

If we are a firstfruit with Christ.

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The removal of that law in our members must be removed -

Jesus shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself. (Philippians 3:21)

Still a body !!! but not one condemend to death.

How VILE is your body in its current corrupting state in God eyes?

I will answer this shortly.

I knew you would not listen or even try to think about what you have been shown. -_-

You are not realizing that for the firstfruits in Christ that is happening now because they have to be in place at the beginning of the thousand years perfected and ready to begin ruling with Christ and acting as priests on behalf of the remainder of the harvest. Where there are firstfruits to a harvest there is also a remainder of the harvest which comes later and you do not know how to distinguish between the two.

You blame the literal flesh body as the thing that is vile when it is nothing more than you make it to be by the spirit of your will either surrendered to God or turned selfishly out of the Way.

Are you a disfellowshipped JW? You put me in mind of those of them I have had occasion to speak to.

Vengle said:

I knew you would not listen or even try to think about what you have been shown. -_-

You are not realizing that for the firstfruits in Christ that is happening now because they have to be in place at the beginning of the thousand years perfected and ready to begin ruling with Christ and acting as priests on behalf of the remainder of the harvest. Where there are firstfruits to a harvest there is also a remainder of the harvest which comes later and you do not know how to distinguish between the two.

You blame the literal flesh body as the thing that is vile when it is nothing more than you make it to be by the spirit of your will either surrendered to God or turned selfishly out of the Way.

Are you a disfellowshipped JW? You put me in mind of those of them I have had occasion to speak to.

Click to expand...

You may have noticed I rarely speak to you about the Spirit? The reason for this is clearly obvious. If you cannot understand the natural body how will you ever understand the spiritual body? I refuse to discuss the spiritual with you, until you clearly understand the nature vile body. 1 Cor 15:46

I have shown you so many times in so many ways a flesh which is condemned to death for two reasons.

1. Inherited nature from Adam - Rom 5:21
2. We morally sin in mind becuase of lust - Rom 6:23 - Gal 5:24

So while in your state of rejecting these natural facts about our nature; Rom 5:20 is currently lost on you.

If you do not understand the sin how can you know the Grace?

Insight

The reason you don't speak spiritual is obvious. <_<

Too bad.