What benefit does it produce to make Jesus God

Peterlag said:

"bring them forth from the tomb in the same manner God did bring Jesus forth from the tomb" fits with the scope of the Word I understand. Thank You.

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Peterlag said:

Something that is openly admitted by theologians that is not known by many Christians is that the doctrine of the Trinity is not stated in the Bible, but is actually “built” by piecing together statements that are said to support it. Since most Christians believe the Trinity is a mystery and not to be understood is a huge reason why doctrinal discussions about it are often avoided or brushed aside and ignored. Worse, the teaching that the Trinity is a “mystery” has been used as a club to beat down doubters and dissenters, and those people are often branded as “heretics” and their role in Christianity minimized.

A study of the history of the Christian Church shows a definite development in the doctrine of the Trinity over the centuries. For example, the early form of the Apostles Creed (believed to date back to shortly after the time of the apostles themselves) does not mention the Trinity or the dual nature of Christ. The Nicene Creed that was written in 325 AD and modified later added the material about Jesus Christ being “eternally begotten” and the "true God” and about the Holy Spirit being “Lord.” But it was the Athanasian Creed that was most likely composed in the latter part of the 4th century or possibly even as early as the 5th century that was the first creed to explicitly state the doctrine of the Trinity.

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Matthias said:

You may have read the book I’m quoting from then, Great Truths To Live By.

”Jesus is God only begotten, proceeding by eternal generation from the Father in a birth that never took place because it always was.”

(Kenneth Wuest, Great Truths To Live By, p. 30)

The “eternal generation” he mentioned is what Dr. Neve (a Lutheran scholar) called “Origen’s helpful suggestion”.

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Charlie24 said:

No, I haven't read any of his books, I've only read some of his Bible commentary, but i don't have the entire collection.

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TLHKAJ said:

I believe there is at least one here who is not interested in the truth in the least. I believe this (one) is nothing more than a mocker and a troll. God help his soul for his disregard of the truth. He is going on ignore.

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farouk said:

God in Three Persons is deeply present in Scripture.............

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Charlie24 said:

The question that theologians cannot answer is the existence of the Trinity as we have the ability to understand as humans.

How can three distinct persons be ONE God? It has already been determined that the unity/essence of the One God is not all that's revealed in Scripture.

It cannot be explained within the realm of human thinking! So we have much confusion over what we call the Trinity.

The word "Trinity" is not found in Scripture, it's a term of identification, such as your name.

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dhh712 said:

The problem with these people is that they will not submit to the teachings as revealed by God in his word unless they can comprehend them with their logic. Thus, they make for themselves a god as small as they are. A figment of their own imagination (and they totally discard God's exhortation to "Trust in the Lord and lean not on your own understanding". Rather, logic and understanding becomes the foundation of these people's faith most definitely not the word of God). Unless they will part with their finite logic and realize that an infinite being cannot be apprehended exhaustively and entirely by our finite minds, they will never believe in the One True and Living God. God remains to them a creation of their own logical understanding. Dozens of such "gods" can be created out of our corrupt and finite logic by utilizing the Bible. Non-Trinitarians are just one example.

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dhh712 said:

an infinite being cannot be apprehended exhaustively and entirely by our finite minds,

they will never believe in the One True and Living God.

God remains to them a creation of their own logical understanding. Dozens of such "gods" can be created out of our corrupt and finite logic by utilizing the Bible.

Non-Trinitarians are just one example.

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Matthias said:

Origen’s fingerprints are on this “beginningless beginning” idea - eternal generation.

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Aunty Jane said:

I asked a lot of questions a long time ago and continue to ask questions to this day....and the answers have been given within the framework of God’s original purpose for mankind on this earth.

He answered me in the scriptures......
the word “beginning” is the same in both Hebrew and Greek even though many try to make it mean something else. When we speak about a “beginning” in English, it is not an ambiguous word.....it’s the start of something. Can we agree on that?
Yahweh is “King of eternity” and the only living being in existence who was said to have an immortal existence.

Jesus is “King of kings”, (earthly kings) but before his mission as a human, he was not immortal, otherwise he could not give his life for mankind. He had to be 100% mortal human in order to die for us, which rules out his being God incarnate.....the reason why Jesus could not be God incarnate. Immortals cannot die.

The Father simply transferred the lifeforce of his spirit son into the womb of the earthly host that he had chosen to raise his son in human form. We have to understand why he needed to be born as a human child and raised as a devout Jew.

We can confuse immortality with everlasting life....but they are not the same at all. Giving both humans and angels everlasting life (obviously through different means as they are different lifeforms) we see that God provided the means for life to continue in the heavenly realm as well as on earth. It also means that God can terminate their lives if they abuse their free will, as satan and the angels as well as the humans he has managed to corrupt, will experience in the future. But “immortality” is literally “the power of an indestructible life”.....nothing can kill an immortal.

Initially, only God was immortal, but as a reward for serving their God faithfully to their death, both the son and his elect are granted immortal life in heaven, given a higher form of life than any other living things....except of course God himself. He will always remain the Sovereign Ruler of heaven and earth. And Jesus will always be the King of kings because the ones who rule with him in heaven, even though they too are kings, will be subject to him and his Father during the rulership of his kingdom. (Revelation 20:6)

If Jesus tells us himself that he has a God, even in heaven (Revelation 3:12) and that he is “the beginning of God’s creation” then we can believe him. (Revelation 3:14) Can’t we?

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Aunty Jane said:

As I understand the term "begotten" it always means that the person concerned had a "begetter". Someone who existed before that one and cause their existence. Jesus as a spirit "son of God" was begotten "in the beginning"....which must be the beginnin g of creation....he himself is the beginning as he said in Revelation 3:14. Some try to make that say something other than what it says.....but "archē" means "beginning". Seeing how it is translated in other verses, it is almost always rendered as "beginning" or "first".

The Scriptures speak of the “only-begotten son” of a widow who lived in the city of Nain, of Jairus’ “only-begotten daughter,” and of a man’s “only-begotten” son whom Jesus cured of a demon. (Luke 7:11-12; Luke 8:41-42; Luke 9:38) "Monogenes" has no other meaning.

The Septuagint uses the word when speaking of Jephthah’s daughter, concerning whom it is written: “Now she was absolutely the only child. Besides her he had neither son nor daughter.” (Judges 11:34) So why would it mean something else when related to Jesus? God uses relationships that humans understand.....presenting himself and his son as males in heaven, when we know that there is no gender there. We understand the relationship between Father and son because its familiar to us.
Angels too always presented as males, yet they have no gender because gender is only for reproduction.....those who reside in heaven are created not the result of reproduction. So I think humans try to read too much into something that is quite simple....complicating everything.

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Charlie24 said:

The Trinity is based on the fact that there are 3 that bear record in Heaven, The Father, The Word/Christ, and The Holy Spirit.

That fact can only be denied by someone who refuses to accept reality. As I said, the word "Trinity" is not found in Scripture, it's a reference of identification to The Father, The Son/Christ, and The Holy Spirit, what is referred to as the Triune Godhead/Trinity.

I've studied the history and will ask the question, whose account of history is that? I get my information from Scripture, not the accounts of uninspired history outside the pages of Scripture.

Anytime you read the word "begotten" in Scripture it is referring to the incarnation of Christ, Him becoming man.

As far as the "duel nature" of Christ, the only person who could describe that is the one Christ chose to give His revelation, that revelation is the meaning of the New Covenant, and that chosen person was Paul of Tarsus, the apostle Paul.

Peter, James, John, and all the rest of the apostles did not have this knowledge. They had a partial knowledge being that God had chosen to grant salvation to the Gentile world. All the Jews at this point believed salvation was only for the Jew.

The truth is that the Apostles learned from Paul the meaning of the New Covenant just as we do, but they also had the great privilege of hearing some of it directly from his mouth. Peter tells us that some of the things Paul said were hard to be understood, and some wrestle with it to their own destruction. Peter didn't understand all of it because it wasn't given to him to understand, but he knew Paul had been given this knowledge and accepted that fact.

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RLT63 said:

Zechariah 5:9 Some angelic beings are women

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Blue Dragonfly's said:

Personally, I think we make an error in our studies if we take the Genesis 1 narrative as the beginning of all in all created.

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Rather, just as the frame of scriptural reference, ''the world'', does not mean to describe the entire globe, I think God's creating the heavens and the earth in Genesis 1 is particular to our planet,solar system, and galaxy.
Because it was necessary to relate a starting point for our species.

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The Bible is exclusive to our terrestrial realm ad its interrelatedness with God. And as such is comprised in a manner that isolates that interrelationship and identity.

While chapters like Job 9 inform us there is more.

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Aunty Jane said:

I have never believed that the material creation was the first that God brought into existence. Job also speaks of the angels shouting for joy over the completion of the material universe and this specially prepared planet and the lifeforms that God placed here to share life with us.

Colossians brings this out....speaking of the Christ, Paul says...
"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation: 16 for by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominions, or rulers, or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together." (NASB

So the pre-human Jesus was the very first of God's creations and was said by the Father to be his "only begotten son"....but not his only son. It is "through" this specially created son...("by means of him") that all other things were created. This does not make Jesus the Creator but the one who fashioned all things using God's holy spirit and the raw materials that God himself brought forth. We have the architect and the builder....


Since it says in Genesis 1 that "God created the heavens and the earth" in one statement, we can assume that when science speaks of the "Big Bang", they speak about an event that they have no other description for. It was one incredible act of creation, telling us about the power of this being we call "God".....truly mind boggling!

There is no pause between Genesis 1:1 and verse 2 that we can readily discern, but from that verse we see that just one planet in a small part of one galaxy was chosen to prepare for habitation. Out of all the planets and solar systems that must exist out there in that vast universe....why was the earth chosen? Scientists call Earth the "Goldilocks planet" because everything about it was "just right". Its distance from its sun....the speed of its rotation....the angle of its axis and its position in the Milky Way galaxy.

I do not believe that the creative days were mere 24 hour periods, because that does not agree with other things that the Bible says, and which are also backed up by science. I believe that the creation of the earth was way before its choosing by God to begin to modify its physical features in order to create habitats for the material creatures that he would put here to share it with us.

Job goes into more detail about the process of making the earth habitable, than Genesis does. It also explains things that Genesis does not....like how there could be "light" but the sun moon and stars were not visible until later. We can connect these parts of the Bible because they all have one author and all give us various parts of one story.


The Bible does tell us a bit about the realm where God and his spirit sons reside, but it was done more in vision that in real life. What some of God's prophets saw was mind blowing....like the great celestial chariot in Ezekiel. Those chosen by God for life in heaven have had those tantalizing glimpses into their future....but probably do not know a fraction of it.

We are interested in how the spirit realm interacts with our terrestrial world as it is referred to often because a rebel spirit was responsible for the temptation that cause the fall of the entire human race. This in turn forced the Creator to take measures to preserve the priceless gift of free will, whilst bringing the perpetrators to justice. I believe that we are living the greatest object lesson in human history....and indeed its lessons stretch all the way to heaven.

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son of God.

I believe the fully human,absent the sin nature Jesus, was begotten upon Mary by God, and that Jesus was also God.

John 1:
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

15 (John testified concerning him. He cried out, saying, “This is the one I spoke about when I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’”) 16 Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

Just an aside. Verse 18 there answers the OP question, again.

Aunty Jane said:

As I understand the term "begotten" it always means that the person concerned had a "begetter". Someone who existed before that one and cause their existence. Jesus as a spirit "son of God" was begotten "in the beginning"....which must be the beginnin g of creation....he himself is the beginning as he said in Revelation 3:14. Some try to make that say something other than what it says.....but "archē" means "beginning". Seeing how it is translated in other verses, it is almost always rendered as "beginning" or "first".

The Scriptures speak of the “only-begotten son” of a widow who lived in the city of Nain, of Jairus’ “only-begotten daughter,” and of a man’s “only-begotten” son whom Jesus cured of a demon. (Luke 7:11-12; Luke 8:41-42; Luke 9:38) "Monogenes" has no other meaning.

The Septuagint uses the word when speaking of Jephthah’s daughter, concerning whom it is written: “Now she was absolutely the only child. Besides her he had neither son nor daughter.” (Judges 11:34) So why would it mean something else when related to Jesus? God uses relationships that humans understand.....presenting himself and his son as males in heaven, when we know that there is no gender there. We understand the relationship between Father and son because its familiar to us.
Angels too always presented as males, yet they have no gender because gender is only for reproduction.....those who reside in heaven are created not the result of reproduction. So I think humans try to read too much into something that is quite simple....complicating everything.

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Aunty Jane said:

Yes his SON.....but being God's son does not make him God....this is where you fall into a huge hole.

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Brakelite said:

I agree with almost everything you've said above, the Michael part included. But here...


In contradistinction to your statement above, the very fact that Jesus is, as you also concur with, the Son of God, is the greatest testament and affirmation of His deity of anything else in scripture. He was begotten. Your huge hole is your insistence that begotten is the same as created.

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Charlie24 said:

"The Only Begotten" is referring to the incarnation of Christ, Him becoming a Man, the God Man.

I can't explain how God the Holy Spirit did this! I don't know what form Christ was when this happened. I don't know how Christ was in the beginning with God the Father. But I do know that Christ has been from Everlasting with the Father, He as God the Father has no beginning!

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