What Heb 9:15 really means to us today ?

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dan p

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Hi to all , the New Covenant is much maliged and Mis-understood as to its application for Today , OR is it Future .

And one part has been accomplished and the other part is Future , and here are the reasons for it being Furture ,

#1 , There are 4 covenants that are YET TO BE FULFILLED and they will have to be put into operation SIMULTANEOUSLY and these covenants are the following ;

The New Covenant , which is all Jewish and has never been given to Gentiles

The Palestinian Covenant , which is the Land for a promise given to Israel .

The Davidic Covenant where Christ will reign from David's Throne .

The last is the Abrahamic Covenant , that explains Gentile salvation during the Millennium .

This can be confirmed by the following verses found in Jer 31:31 ; Ezek 36:25-38 and in Heb 8:7-13 , which show that since the Old Covenant passed away , God has made a New Covenant with the House of Israel and the House of Judah in verse 8 .. and the other reason they are not in Operation , is because they Crucified their MESSIAH and the Kingdom of HeAVEN or Millennial Kingdom was SET ASIDE .

The Gentiles are not mention or ALLUDED to in Hebrews and Eph 2:12 proves my point .


Now here is the PART that all read over and which is much mis-understood , and this is the following ,

#1 , That by means of Christ Death

#2 , " For the REMDEMPTION of the Transgressions , and that means Christ Death Redeemed those Sins UNDER ??

#3 , Redeemed those Sins Committed under the the FIRST TESTAMENT /DIATHEKE which means that Christ Death PAID for all SINS that Israel committed for over 1500 years Under the FIRST Covenant ..

dan p
 

dan p

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Are you saying God has not provided a means of salvation to Gentiles?


Hi , and this post is about the New Covenat and the other 3 Covenants that will be in Operation at Christ Second Coming and the Millenianl Kingdom , and Paul is our Apostle and we are saved by Grace as Eph 2:8 and Rom 10:9 say , dan p
 

Comm.Arnold

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Hi Dan ! :) I don't know anything about a new covenant but I know God is real that he loves me that I love him and he wants whats best for us and ... I think Imma start crying
 

veteran

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I see dan p is throwing out his Hyper-Dispensationalist deceptions again.

When our Lord Jesus died on the cross, was resurrected, and appeared to His disciples, that established the beginning of The New Covenant. The last supper was to symbolize that, giving us the sacraments of Communion. On Pentecost His New Covenant Church was established de facto by The Holy Spirit. So those are some pretty weighty matters to be going against.

But for blinded Israel, The New Covenant is still expecting for them, because they refused Christ at His first coming. Yet Apostle Paul well showed in Romans 11 that not all of Israel was blinded, and for those not blinded, they became the inheritors of The New Covenant, having believed on the Blood of Jesus Christ, and then preached Christ crucified to the Gentiles. Paul himself was one of that Israelite remnant according to the election of grace.

Christ's coming literal Kingdom on earth is still not established today, and that's what is still expecting involving unbelieving Israel; but not believing Israel. For those who believe today, Christ's spiritual Kingdom has come today on earth BY The Holy Spirit, even though those sanctified in His Blood today also await His coming LITERAL Kingdom to be established upon this earth.

Here's where Apostle Paul revealed this difference also...

Rom 11:25-29
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is My covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
(KJV)

There's the delay of the application of The New Covenant dan p is speaking of; it is regarding the PART of 'blinded' Israel, i.e., those of Israel that still reject Christ Jesus.

For the part of Israel that were NOT blinded, which involves the majority of the "house of Israel" of ten scattered tribes to the west to form the historical western Christian nations, for them, and the Gentiles which believed as they, for those The New Covenant through Christ's Blood shed on the cross has most definitely been established!

As for what Paul said in Ephesians 2:12 about the "commonwealth of Israel", he specifically was saying that to GENTILE believers on Christ Jesus, and how they had become part of that commonwealth. So your little take on that could not be farther from the Truth.
 

prism

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Veteran. according to your take on Rom 11 there is no need for a future deliverer for the people of the Covenant.

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
(Rom 11:25-26)
 

dan p

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I see dan p is throwing out his Hyper-Dispensationalist deceptions again.

When our Lord Jesus died on the cross, was resurrected, and appeared to His disciples, that established the beginning of The New Covenant. The last supper was to symbolize that, giving us the sacraments of Communion. On Pentecost His New Covenant Church was established de facto by The Holy Spirit. So those are some pretty weighty matters to be going against.

But for blinded Israel, The New Covenant is still expecting for them, because they refused Christ at His first coming. Yet Apostle Paul well showed in Romans 11 that not all of Israel was blinded, and for those not blinded, they became the inheritors of The New Covenant, having believed on the Blood of Jesus Christ, and then preached Christ crucified to the Gentiles. Paul himself was one of that Israelite remnant according to the election of grace.

Christ's coming literal Kingdom on earth is still not established today, and that's what is still expecting involving unbelieving Israel; but not believing Israel. For those who believe today, Christ's spiritual Kingdom has come today on earth BY The Holy Spirit, even though those sanctified in His Blood today also await His coming LITERAL Kingdom to be established upon this earth.

Here's where Apostle Paul revealed this difference also...

Rom 11:25-29
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is My covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
(KJV)

There's the delay of the application of The New Covenant dan p is speaking of; it is regarding the PART of 'blinded' Israel, i.e., those of Israel that still reject Christ Jesus.

For the part of Israel that were NOT blinded, which involves the majority of the "house of Israel" of ten scattered tribes to the west to form the historical western Christian nations, for them, and the Gentiles which believed as they, for those The New Covenant through Christ's Blood shed on the cross has most definitely been established!

As for what Paul said in Ephesians 2:12 about the "commonwealth of Israel", he specifically was saying that to GENTILE believers on Christ Jesus, and how they had become part of that commonwealth. So your little take on that could not be farther from the Truth.


Hi , and you did not ADDRESS Heb 9:15 , and this is not debate is it ?

And Rom 11:27 , by CONTEXT is Israel and not Gentiles !!

I am NOT a Hyper-dispensationalist , as they begin the Body of Christ at Acts 28:28 .

I am a Pauline diaspensationalist and begin the Body of Christ at Acts 9:6 !!

dan p
 

veteran

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Hi , and you did not ADDRESS Heb 9:15 , and this is not debate is it ?

And Rom 11:27 , by CONTEXT is Israel and not Gentiles !!

I am NOT a Hyper-dispensationalist , as they begin the Body of Christ at Acts 28:28 .

I am a Pauline diaspensationalist and begin the Body of Christ at Acts 9:6 !!

dan p

Not a debate, a rebuke.

Understanding God's Word on the subject of Hebrews about The New Covenant, which INCLUDES the Hebrew 9:15 verse, cannot be solely cornered to that single verse, especially since Hebrews quotes back to the OT prophets so much about it. So no tiger-trapping into a debate of that one verse is going to prove what you're trying to infer.

The Hyper-Dispensationalist movement is included within, the idea of "Paulline dispensationalist". It became a later movement from Dispensationalism to further try to create a false separation in Christ's Church believing Gentiles and believing Israelites, something which Paul did not do.

Veteran. according to your take on Rom 11 there is no need for a future deliverer for the people of the Covenant.

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
(Rom 11:25-26)

I don't know where you get that idea from what I've said. If you'll re-read my reply to dan p about The New Covenant in relation to BLINDED Israel, you'll see what I mean, and how I wholly support what Paul said there in Romans 11 about the blinded part of Israel having their blindness removed when that fulness of the Gentiles be come in, which is not yet.
 

veteran

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So let's break it down again of what God's Word and history of The Church reveals vs. what dan p is saying...

Hi to all , the New Covenant is much maliged and Mis-understood as to its application for Today , OR is it Future .

And one part has been accomplished and the other part is Future , and here are the reasons for it being Furture ,

#1 , There are 4 covenants that are YET TO BE FULFILLED and they will have to be put into operation SIMULTANEOUSLY and these covenants are the following ;

The New Covenant , which is all Jewish and has never been given to Gentiles

An understanding in the OT prophets concerning the Gentiles, is that they also would be sent The Gospel of Jesus Christ, The New Covenant, and by believing on Christ Jesus, would become fellow-heirs with believing Israel. That's what Paul's Message in Eph.2 about the "commonwealth of Israel" is about, believing Gentiles becoming fellow-heirs of the promises and COVENANTS to Israel. So already, that is going against what dan p is saying that The New Covenant is "all Jewish and has never been given to Gentiles". This becomes a greater factor in light of dan p's following of Pauline Dispensationalism, which specifically involves the idea of the "mystery" Paul mentioned about The Gospel going also to the Gentiles. Thus dan p has actually contradicted what he himself has claimed to follow.


The Palestinian Covenant , which is the Land for a promise given to Israel .

There is no such thing as a "Palestinian Covenant" written in God's Word. The name Palestine (Philistia) was originally used to describe the strip of sea coastal areas the Philistines once possessed (Joel 3:4). God defined the lands of inheritance to Abraham and his seed in many other ways, like "land of Israel", "holy land", "pleasant land", "land of promise", etc. In Joshua 13, God declares the specific areas of the land that Israel was to possess per His Promise, and Philistia was only ONE of those areas.

So "Palestinian Covenant" is a term actually more befitting of Islam's political strategy to claim areas in the holy land which God instead promised to Israel.

God's Promise to Abraham of the land is actually part of what's popularly called the Abrahamic Covenant.


The Davidic Covenant where Christ will reign from David's Throne.

Not only that Christ would inherit David's throne on earth, but also God's Promise to David that there would always be one of David's seed to sit upon that throne unto all generations, until... Christ comes to inherit it (second coming, per Gen.49; Ezek.21; 2 Sam.7, etc.). There is one of the seed of the house of David still sitting upon that throne today on this earth, although many Dispensationalists, orthodox Jews, and even many believing Jews, all try to deny that.


The last is the Abrahamic Covenant , that explains Gentile salvation during the Millennium.

This is where dan p is very lacking in Bible study., along with many other type Dispensationalists. Quite a few Dispensationalists back in the late 1800's and early 1900's were well acquainted with what I'm getting ready to cover next...

The 'Abrahamic Covenant' is the covenant which God made to Abraham by Promise, approx. 430 years before the giving of the law through Moses. The Abrahamic Covenant did not involve the giving of the Old Covenant, for the Old Covenant was not yet. Instead, the Abrahamic Covenant involved God's Promise of Salvation by FAITH, as Abraham was first given that Promise by Faith. Apostle Paul declares this in both his Epistles to the Romans and to the Galatians (Gauls).

What this particular Abrahamic Covenant involves, is all the promises God gave in relation to His Salvation through Christ. To Abraham first, then it passed to his son Isaac, and then to his son Jacob. This is why God is called The God of Abraham, The God of Isaac, and The God of Jacob. That Title is to represent the transfer of God's Birthright promises from Abraham, through Israel (Jacob), and all the way down to Christ's Church, which is why Paul would link the covenants and promises for that "commonwealth of Israel" he also applied to believing Gentiles as fellow-heirs (Ephesians 2).

For the sincere Bible student, this matter can be Biblically traced starting with God's Promises to Abraham, then transferred to Isaac, then to his son Jacob, then to his son Joseph, and finally to Joseph's two sons of Ephraim and Manasseh in connection with Christ's Church in final. I will not cover just what all those promises contain, but they are still in effect for today, and manifested among Christ's Body today. It is the main reason of attack upon the Christian nations by Christ's enemies still.
 

dan p

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Hi , and in Gen 12:1-9 , God showed Abram the Land that the Jews would be given .

In Gen 15:18 God in that same day made a COVENANT/DIATHEKE with Abram giving him that land .

The English word Covenant can also be translated by the following words ,

#1 , Covenant
#2 , Aggreement
#3 , Contract

And this Covenant is made Un-conditional that God will perform and not man .

The Land of Palestine will be divided into 3 parts !!

The Northern part will be divided among 7 tribes .

The Southern part will be divided among the remaini9ng 5 tribes .

The MIDDLE PORTION will be devoted to the Wodship of Jehovah and include the Prince's Portion .

Without this Land , the Millennium can not realized , dan p
 

dan p

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The final layout is written in the Ezekiel 40 through 48 chapters, which are Millennium timing chapters.


Hi , and Ezekiah has many verses about the Millennium and ALL of Revelation show how God PURGES Israel during the Tribulation , and the first 3 chapters are NOT PART of a so-called Christian , but speak to why Israel is in the MESS that they are in , dan p
 

veteran

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Hi , and Ezekiah has many verses about the Millennium and ALL of Revelation show how God PURGES Israel during the Tribulation , and the first 3 chapters are NOT PART of a so-called Christian , but speak to why Israel is in the MESS that they are in , dan p

A first requirement of understanding the Millennium chapters of Ezekiel 40 thru 48 is knowing who the "house of Israel" represents per history. The Hyper-Dispensationalist doctrine of men you're on automatically discards that understanding.
 

WISDOM CALLED

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Are you saying God has not provided a means of salvation to Gentiles?

They don't even know the meaning of salvation that is an ancient mystic term for self-preservation. The Christian orthodox have no comprehension of the true teachings of the Lute of Lovingkindness, because the Church translators did not understand it. How could the translators and compilers of the bible understand it when they were neither mystics or healers? The Angels of ELOHIM know the meaning of salvation because it has been shared with them. The Angels of ELOHIM also come from many nations.

Only the opened hearted and minded were ready to receive that which can preserve them and the lives of humanity.

The 4 covenants relate to four different realities and I made a post on it the other day. Here is a part of this post.


In biblical times, the wicked were those that did not honor all that was holy, sacred and true. Those that did not honor the LORD's creation.

King David gives ELOHIM encouragement and he said 'She will not fall, God will help her at break of day'. Psalm 46, that Obama read out on 9/11. One can view that in different ways, especially as the twin towers did indeed fall as mentioned in the bible. Was Obama mocking the word or America and the one sent to help when he read out Psalm 46 on 9/11 at ground zero?

King Solomon also spoke of the day breaking. "Until the day breaks and the shadows flee, turn my beloved, and be like a gazelle". He says he will go to the mountain.

Isaiah 42, tells us that "In faithfulness he will bring forth justice" Once again the 'Harp of Faithfulness is mentioned again. They cannot falter or be discouraged until justice is established upon the earth. It speaks of the teaching in which the Islands have put their hope. The land of Joseph is an Island, the larger one of the UK.

Isaiah 58 every cord and yoke of oppression is broken and the light breaks forth like the dawn. Your healing will quickly appear, your righteousness will go before you. Isaiah 58 is all about ascension and we have provided a full commentary on that in the past.

Righteousness goes before the people because they have to show you the way. There is no righteousness without healing. "Healing is the get out of jail card. Healing is the path to salvation and love is the way." from Sacred Words

Instead of doing the will of the LORD God, Isaiah 66 tells you that the people have gone their own way and they delight in their abominations. No surprise then that the USA became the Obamanation due to what is described in Isaiah 47.

Prophet Jeremiah promised Israel that he would break the yoke of the king of Babylon (USA). He also told the House of David to administer justice and to rescue the one that has been robbed. Being robbed also relates to the Malachi prophecies about the Messenger of the Covenant. As we know ELIAKIM holds the key of David.

Two different covenants are spoken about by Prophet Jeremiah, the one by day and the one by night. That aligns perfectly with the two different people that King David declared in Psalm 92.

The word of the LORD came to Jeremiah: “This is what the LORD says: ‘If you can break my covenant with the day and my covenant with the night, so that day and night no longer come at their appointed time, then my covenant with David my servant—and my covenant with the Levites who are priests ministering before me—can be broken and David will no longer have a descendant to reign on his throne. Jeremiah 33:19-21


Did the Jewish people break the covenant with the day, they did not accept the Lute of Lovingkindness.


Will the same happen to the covenant with the night?


Or do the people choose to accept the shortening of the last days of the end times?


The appointed time for the herald was in 2009, that is when we gave he people the commentary on the prophecy about the oil rich nations plundering the nations.


When I was in Israel the spiritual Levites informed me that the Levites were artists.


All is in the hands of the LORD and I trust him faithfully to do what is right to help the people at this time. I ask for his mercy and his compassion for the people, to forgive them for they know not what they do or what they have done. The people are innocent of the suffering that they are co-creating for their nations; because those that know have not shared it.

 

WISDOM CALLED

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Hi , and in Gen 12:1-9 , God showed Abram the Land that the Jews would be given .

In Gen 15:18 God in that same day made a COVENANT/DIATHEKE with Abram giving him that land .

The English word Covenant can also be translated by the following words ,

#1 , Covenant
#2 , Aggreement
#3 , Contract

And this Covenant is made Un-conditional that God will perform and not man .

The Land of Palestine will be divided into 3 parts !!

The Northern part will be divided among 7 tribes .

The Southern part will be divided among the remaini9ng 5 tribes .

The MIDDLE PORTION will be devoted to the Wodship of Jehovah and include the Prince's Portion .

Without this Land , the Millennium can not realized , dan p

The bible tells you that the LORD loves ZION more than Israel.

So what does the bible tell you about ZION? Read Micah 4 about Daughter Zion who received her kingship after her mission to Babylon (USA, 2008). Micah 4 tells you about the LORD's plan for the last days of the end times and the end.

Israel were warned if they did not accept the Messenger of the Covenant then the nations will be destroyed.

The prophecies also told them that the war would come, that happened in the summer of 2006. If they still do not accept then the fire would come. That happened in 2010. 5 million trees were destroyed on Mount Carmel.

The prophecies then tell them that if they still do not take it to their hearts then JUDAH will be flooded.

Prophet Isaiah also predicted the destruction of Damascus and a great earthquake.

The Qu'ran also predicted a great earthquake.

If and when Damascus is destroyed then it tells the religionists that the crossroads of religion as been destroyed and many will flee due to the judgement of the LORD upon them all.

Isaiah 47, Rev 17 and 18 also speaks of the destruction of the USA. There is only one nation that fits the prophecies in terms of mystery Babylon in the present of the last days of the end times. It began with the destruction of the twin towers that is also in the bible and it mentions the Chief that takes their money. e.g. OBAMA that the NT predicted in Rev 13. The Leopard from Africa predicted by Prophet Daniel.

Wisdom was called to do the count, the VIRGIN of wisdom was called to stand against the son of lawlessness.

She does indeed have the moon of Islam under her feet. Rev 12.

 

veteran

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The bible tells you that the LORD loves ZION more than Israel.

So what does the bible tell you about ZION? Read Micah 4 about Daughter Zion who received her kingship after her mission to Babylon (USA, 2008). Micah 4 tells you about the LORD's plan for the last days of the end times and the end.

Israel were warned if they did not accept the Messenger of the Covenant then the nations will be destroyed.

The prophecies also told them that the war would come, that happened in the summer of 2006. If they still do not accept then the fire would come. That happened in 2010. 5 million trees were destroyed on Mount Carmel.

The prophecies then tell them that if they still do not take it to their hearts then JUDAH will be flooded.

Prophet Isaiah also predicted the destruction of Damascus and a great earthquake.

The Qu'ran also predicted a great earthquake.

If and when Damascus is destroyed then it tells the religionists that the crossroads of religion as been destroyed and many will flee due to the judgement of the LORD upon them all.

Isaiah 47, Rev 17 and 18 also speaks of the destruction of the USA. There is only one nation that fits the prophecies in terms of mystery Babylon in the present of the last days of the end times. It began with the destruction of the twin towers that is also in the bible and it mentions the Chief that takes their money. e.g. OBAMA that the NT predicted in Rev 13. The Leopard from Africa predicted by Prophet Daniel.

Wisdom was called to do the count, the VIRGIN of wisdom was called to stand against the son of lawlessness.

She does indeed have the moon of Islam under her feet. Rev 12.


That's false prophecy that denies end time events that are actually written in God's Word that have YET to occur today.

The end time Babylon Harlot is Jerusalem per God's Word, not the U.S.A. And Jerusalem is where the Antichrist false messiah is to appear in the last days prior to Christ's second coming. Jerusalem is also where God's "two witnesses" are to appear in Testimony against the idol worship that is going to take place there (Rev.11; Rev.17; Matt.24).
 

WISDOM CALLED

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That's false prophecy that denies end time events that are actually written in God's Word that have YET to occur today.

As the Son of God said 'May the dark vision of the future not come to pass'. Essene Gospel of Peace Teachings of the elect book 4.

Orthodox Christians deny the 'Gospel of Peace' they even ignore the fact that it is specifically mentioned in the bible.

Why did the Church not include the Gospel mentioned in the bible? Do you know?


The end time Babylon Harlot is Jerusalem per God's Word, not the U.S.A. And Jerusalem is where the Antichrist false messiah is to appear in the last days prior to Christ's second coming. Jerusalem is also where God's "two witnesses" are to appear in Testimony against the idol worship that is going to take place there (Rev.11; Rev.17; Matt.24).

No. Rev 17, 18 is about the USA. That is why you have OBAMA as a president.

In the NT it is "The abomination that stands where it does not belong"

The Obamanation.

In the prophecies of Zephaniah the VIRGIN Stands against the Son of Lawlessness.

In the Dead Sea Scrolls Obama is the usurper of the true one sent in in this timeline.

The leader of the nation of Islam called Obama the Messiah.

Do catch up
 

veteran

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As the Son of God said 'May the dark vision of the future not come to pass'. Essene Gospel of Peace Teachings of the elect book 4.

Orthodox Christians deny the 'Gospel of Peace' they even ignore the fact that it is specifically mentioned in the bible.

Why did the Church not include the Gospel mentioned in the bible? Do you know?

It's because the ONLY TRUE Gospel is that of The Gospel of Jesus Christ, not some member's writing of an ascetic desert sectarian group like the Essenes.




No. Rev 17, 18 is about the USA. That is why you have OBAMA as a president.

In the NT it is "The abomination that stands where it does not belong"

The Obamanation.

In the prophecies of Zephaniah the VIRGIN Stands against the Son of Lawlessness.

In the Dead Sea Scrolls Obama is the usurper of the true one sent in in this timeline.

The leader of the nation of Islam called Obama the Messiah.

Do catch up

I'm not the one who needs to catch up. If Obama were the coming Antichrist, he'd be doing miracles in the sight of men IN JERUSALEM, like the Revelation Scripture points to. Also, he would have had to ascended up from the bottomless pit, and not his mother's womb.

Might want to warn your Muslim and Jewish brothers in Jerusalem about the coming Antichrist there working miracles to deceive with, for it ain't Obama.