Christian Saints and Sinners

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Always Believing

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The difference between a Christian saint is sinner is one is sinning and the other is not and I don't reject either. If we are sinning we are a Christian sinner and if we are not we are a Christian saint. As for me I know I will sin again and if a Christian isn't then they are most blessed with untainted joy and unbroken fellowship with Jesus Christ.
 
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Robert Gwin

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The difference between a Christian saint is sinner is one is sinning and the other is not and I don't reject either. If we are sinning we are a Christian sinner and if we are not we are a Christian saint. As for me I know I will sin again and if a Christian isn't then they are most blessed with untainted joy and unbroken fellowship with Jesus Christ.

No sir, a saint is one who is spirit anointed. There are many terms used for them; born again, holy ones, Christs brothers, Israel of God, Christs bride, Anointed, in Christ, and that is just the terms I can think of off the top of my head

And beit a saint or not, all Christians are sinners.
 

Bob Estey

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The difference between a Christian saint is sinner is one is sinning and the other is not and I don't reject either. If we are sinning we are a Christian sinner and if we are not we are a Christian saint. As for me I know I will sin again and if a Christian isn't then they are most blessed with untainted joy and unbroken fellowship with Jesus Christ.
How do you know that you are going to sin again? I'll assume you are tying not to.
 

Always Believing

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How do you know that you are going to sin again? I'll assume you are tying not to.
Good question. I say I will sin again but I do not say every Christian will sin again. To me it's not a matter of knowing or believing it but mostly that I am not surprised when I do, as though I believe I will not. I am more in agreement with them that say they believe they will not sin, than with those that say all Christians will sin, just because they do.

I do not seek to sin and try not to, but I am no more in the category of them that believe they will not and I don't tell myself that anymore. I suppose I should say I probably will sin again, since your question shows that we don't have to and who knows what the future holds. I only say I confess sinning when I do with faith Jesus forgives me and restores His salvation to me. I also do know that I can stop the sin in midstream so to speak and confess and be forgiven and walk away from it.

Also with your question, I suppose I could call myself a Christian saint when I'm not sinning and a Christian sinner while sinning, but in either case I am only saved because I am forgiven by confessing sinning when I do.

That make since to you? To me it is much more realistic and practical than trying to believe I will not sin this day or the next. I have simply stopped worrying about it or deceiving myself with it.
 

Bob Estey

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Good question. I say I will sin again but I do not say every Christian will sin again. To me it's not a matter of knowing or believing it but mostly that I am not surprised when I do, as though I believe I will not. I am more in agreement with them that say they believe they will not sin, than with those that say all Christians will sin, just because they do.

I do not seek to sin and try not to, but I am no more in the category of them that believe they will not and I don't tell myself that anymore. I suppose I should say I probably will sin again, since your question shows that we don't have to and who knows what the future holds. I only say I confess sinning when I do with faith Jesus forgives me and restores His salvation to me. I also do know that I can stop the sin in midstream so to speak and confess and be forgiven and walk away from it.

Also with your question, I suppose I could call myself a Christian saint when I'm not sinning and a Christian sinner while sinning, but in either case I am only saved because I am forgiven by confessing sinning when I do.

That make since to you? To me it is much more realistic and practical than trying to believe I will not sin this day or the next. I have simply stopped worrying about it or deceiving myself with it.
Nobody has to sin. When we sin, we repent and do everything we can not to sin again.
 

Always Believing

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I can't say I won't sin again, but I am going to try not to.
That's exactly where I am. I pray and believe Jesus constantly so that He is never far from my mind, but I still find myself doing certain things I used to do but not as often nor with as much gusto. All I can do is confess it openly to Jesus, and He forgives me, and we move on again together.

Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead. (Phillipians 3.13)
 
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ScottA

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The difference between a Christian saint is sinner is one is sinning and the other is not and I don't reject either. If we are sinning we are a Christian sinner and if we are not we are a Christian saint. As for me I know I will sin again and if a Christian isn't then they are most blessed with untainted joy and unbroken fellowship with Jesus Christ.
During the time between Jesus' resurrection from the dead and His ascension (forty days), was He carrying the marks of sins? Whose sins?

That was a foreshadowing of the life of those who were crucified with Him, but as Paul stated, are "alive and remain." The point is, that foreshadowing is the answer to this issue of would-be sins after would-be salvation--we carry them for our remaining days, even though that which is written is true, that "it is no longer we who live, but Christ who lives in us."

This is a completely new thing since Pentecost: The mystery of "Christ in us."

The sins that Christ died for were for our whole life, even that time we walk with Him, and it is the evidence of sin coupled with the word of our testimony that He is in us--that "Jesus has come in the flesh" (ours), that was foreshadowed by Christ; and the reason Paul came to say "for me, to live is Christ", but that He also struggled.
 
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Always Believing

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During the time between Jesus' resurrection from the dead and His resurrection (forty days), was He caring the marks of sins? Whose sins?

That was a foreshadowing of the life of those who were crucified with Him, but as Paul stated, are "alive and remain." The point is, that foreshadowing is the answer to this issue of would-be sins after would-be salvation--we carry them for our remaining days, even though that which is written is true, that "it is no longer we who live, but Christ who lives in us."

This is a completely new thing since Pentecost: The mystery of "Christ in us."

The sins that Christ died for were for our whole life, even that time we walk with Him, and it is the evidence of sin coupled with the word of our testimony that He is in us--that "Jesus has come in the flesh" (ours), that was foreshadowed by Christ; and the reason Paul came to say "for me, to live is Christ", but that He also struggled.
I am sure you meant ascension after 40 days.

He was carrying the marks of the cross that He was crucified on because unrighteous people were given power over His body, and falsely condemned Him. Those marks were made by other sinning people. Those marks on His resurrected pure and clean and perfected body are not sins, but eternal reminders on the Lamb of God for the cost of being forgiven our sins by confessing them freely without excuses.

You carry your sins with you for life, while it is you that no longer live, but Christ in you. We are the same. I keep sinning to, but we are forgiven and saved when we confess sinning from the heart to Jesus.

The mystery of Christ in us is to draw us to Him to walk with Him from the inside, rather than calling the unbelievers on the outside looking in. And so, His tug is not to sin, but is also to return to Him with full confession of sin when we do so.

"The Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you." (John 14.17)

I don't couple witnessing while sinning.
 

ScottA

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I am sure you meant ascension after 40 days.

He was carrying the marks of the cross that He was crucified on because unrighteous people were given power over His body, and falsely condemned Him. Those marks were made by other sinning people. Those marks on His resurrected pure and clean and perfected body are not sins, but eternal reminders on the Lamb of God for the cost of being forgiven our sins by confessing them freely without excuses.

You carry your sins with you for life, while it is you that no longer live, but Christ in you. We are the same. I keep sinning to, but we are forgiven and saved when we confess sinning from the heart to Jesus.

The mystery of Christ in us is to draw us to Him to walk with Him from the inside, rather than calling the unbelievers on the outside looking in. And so, His tug is not to sin, but is also to return to Him with full confession of sin when we do so.

"The Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you." (John 14.17)

I don't couple witnessing while sinning.
Bottom line: Jesus paid the price for all sin for all time. Even our confession is made once for salvation...after which if He has chosen us, He is with us (in us and us in Him, His life and ours as One just as He is One with the Father). It is Him in us that gives us consciousness against sin until the end, sins that were paid for once on the cross. Just as His one act was for sins past and future, so was our confession and repentance. "It is finished."
 

Always Believing

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Bottom line: Jesus paid the price for all sin for all time. Even our confession is made once for salvation...after which if He has chosen us, He is with us (in us and us in Him, His life and ours as One just as He is One with the Father). It is Him in us that gives us consciousness against sin until the end, sins that were paid for once on the cross. Just as His one act was for sins past and future, so was our confession and repentance. "It is finished."
If you are teaching sins forgiven past present and future by confessing Jesus for the first time in life, then I will never agree with that, because the Bible says we are forgiven of our past sins when we confess him, and that we must confess our sin if we win against Him to be forgiven and restored to a clean heart and conscience.

What do you mean by gives us consciousness against sin until the end? Do you mean gives us power over sin not to sin until the end of our lives on earth?
 

dev553344

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The difference between a Christian saint is sinner is one is sinning and the other is not and I don't reject either. If we are sinning we are a Christian sinner and if we are not we are a Christian saint. As for me I know I will sin again and if a Christian isn't then they are most blessed with untainted joy and unbroken fellowship with Jesus Christ.
Well we know from the scriptures a little more about what sin is than most churches teach:

Sin is anything we do that is not good as we know it: James 4:17

Sin is not obeying the Royal Law of Love God and your neighbor or ten commandments. Royal law has a template from Jesus in Matthew 25:31-46

If we sin on one point we are guilty of the whole law James 2:10

He who claims to be without sin has not the truth: 1 John 1:8

I also have a personal testimony that following Jesus' teachings brings Peace, Love and Joy from the Holy Spirit of God as a blessing (Galatians 5:22-23).

God is merciful as taught in the scriptures and he is good. He would direct us to be perfect, and knowing that we will not be perfect he sent Jesus the Christ as a perfect sacrafice that we might be saved. John 3:16

Hope this helps :)
 
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ScottA

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If you are teaching sins forgiven past present and future by confessing Jesus for the first time in life, then I will never agree with that, because the Bible says we are forgiven of our past sins when we confess him, and that we must confess our sin if we win against Him to be forgiven and restored to a clean heart and conscience.

What do you mean by gives us consciousness against sin until the end? Do you mean gives us power over sin not to sin until the end of our lives on earth?
What I meant by a "consciousness against sin until the end", was that we have been changed from liking/loving sin to hating it, by the power of Christ living in us...which, yes, is eternal because it is Christ in us, which is eternal life.

But if you believe "the Bible says we are forgiven of our past sins when we confess him"--what are you saying, that you do not believe that we are changed at that moment we believe, confess, and repent, and therefore must keep updating regularly throughout the rest of our live in the world? If so, please quote the scriptures where it says it.

Thank you.
 

Always Believing

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What I meant by a "consciousness against sin until the end", was that we have been changed from liking/loving sin to hating it, by the power of Christ living in us...which, yes, is eternal because it is Christ in us, which is eternal life.

But if you believe "the Bible says we are forgiven of our past sins when we confess him"--what are you saying, that you do not believe that we are changed at that moment we believe, confess, and repent, and therefore must keep updating regularly throughout the rest of our live in the world? If so, please quote the scriptures where it says it.

Thank you.
I agree completely with your point on our attitude toward sin being changed from loving it to hating it, and seeking not to do it, and if we do, then we can still be forgiven by confessing it to Jesus as at the first. And the know the Scriptures already telling us to go ahead and confess sin from the heart and He certainly will forgive us. And confession is with godly sorrow for the betrayal to Jesus, which is not the sorriness of the world like Esau and Judas who were only sorry they lost what they had and wanted it back again, such as a wife that will not accept the adulterer back, because all he cared about was getting caught.

There's no need to keep updated confession of our sins, if we are not sinning. We don't need to keep confessing what we already confessed in the past, and we can't confess anything we haven't done, which certainly includes the future. This already forgiven stuff is weird and unreal, and I really don't care why a Christian would have a problem with confessing a sin against Jesus with heartfelt sorrow to be forgiven by Him. We are taught to do the same with fellow Christians and any person on earth, and especially with friends and family. To me that means someone doesn't take Jesus Christ seriously as a real person.
 

ScottA

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I agree completely with your point on our attitude toward sin being changed from loving it to hating it, and seeking not to do it, and if we do, then we can still be forgiven by confessing it to Jesus as at the first. And the know the Scriptures already telling us to go ahead and confess sin from the heart and He certainly will forgive us. And confession is with godly sorrow for the betrayal to Jesus, which is not the sorriness of the world like Esau and Judas who were only sorry they lost what they had and wanted it back again, such as a wife that will not accept the adulterer back, because all he cared about was getting caught.

There's no need to keep updated confession of our sins, if we are not sinning. We don't need to keep confessing what we already confessed in the past, and we can't confess anything we haven't done, which certainly includes the future. This already forgiven stuff is weird and unreal, and I really don't care why a Christian would have a problem with confessing a sin against Jesus with heartfelt sorrow to be forgiven by Him. We are taught to do the same with fellow Christians and any person on earth, and especially with friends and family. To me that means someone doesn't take Jesus Christ seriously as a real person.
Okay, I understand what you mean now.

The issue that I thought you were referring to was rather that one could loose their salvation after believing, confessing, and being completely changed, that is after being born again of the spirit of God which is eternal life.

But that not being what you were actually referring to, yes, continuing to confess sins is good and to be so.
 

Always Believing

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Okay, I understand what you mean now.

The issue that I thought you were referring to was rather that one could loose their salvation after believing, confessing, and being completely changed, that is after being born again of the spirit of God which is eternal life.

But that not being what you were actually referring to, yes, continuing to confess sins is good and to be so.
I live by the faith that so long as we desire to be forgiven of sins, then He will continue to draw us to confession when necessary, and our forgiveness and salvation is assured.

I have known some Christians that did cease to care about being forgiven, by hardening their hearts to Jesus to return gladly to sinning, or because of a false accusation and grudge against God.
 
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