What Are we Getting Saved From?

teamventure · Sep 20, 2022

Aunty Jane said:
If you understand the timeframe of the resurrection you will see that the Bible refers to two separate resurrection events. The "first resurrection" is for the elect and these will be resurrected to immortal life in heaven, ruling with Christ in his Kingdom and fulfilling their role as "priests" for those who come back in the second, or general resurrection of the dead later. (Revelation 20:6; John 5:28-29)

Most people are completely unaware that the Bible speaks about two resurrections because the immortal soul doctrine masks it.
The "first resurrection" is obviously first in time and first in importance since it establishes the Kingdom with its full compliment of co-rulers with Christ in heaven just prior to the end of the current world system.

The second resurrection is for those who will experience an earthly return to life.....the one that Christ and his apostles demonstrated in the first century....these ones were returned to this life, and reunited with their families.
The ones taken to heaven will rule those who are raised on earth...this is after all, the place where God put us to enjoy everlasting life in the beginning of man's history. Adam was never told about "heaven or hell"...just "life or death". His continued life depended on his obedience.

So for those who are resurrected back to the earth, God's Kingdom will rule them for 1,000 years gradually bringing mankind back to the sinless condition that Adam and his wife first enjoyed in the garden.

The resurrected ones who were unrighteous when they died, are given opportunity during that thousand years to learn about the Creator and to bring their lives into harmony with his requirements. At the end of the thousand years, satan, who has been imprisoned with his demons all that time so as not to interfere with the purpose of the Kingdom's rulership, (Revelation 20:1-3) will be "let loose for a little while". He will try to mislead mankind once again, but this time, if he manages to take humans away from God, they will be annihilated on the spot. This is how they are raised to "everlasting contempt"...to be given a second chance and still to throw God's generosity back in his face is the ultimate act of contempt.

Being sinless and tempted as Adam and his wife were, there is now nothing to prove....those who succumb will be eliminated from existence to join Adam and Eve in a place from which no one returns. The "goats" are already there as Jesus said, in the place "reserved for satan and his angels", so 'gehenna' will have many more wicked ones sent there for the sentence of eternal death after the thousand years....and there is no mention of the lake of fire ever going out of existence. That way there is a place for those who may abuse their free will in the future. Remember that Adam was sinless and made a bad choice to join his disobedient wife....they had no excuse to sin....but their children, being born with a sinful nature through no fault on our part, God kindly sent his son to redeem us. The Kingdom will bring all redeemed and faithful mankind back into reconciliation with their Creator.
That is what the Kingdom is for.

I think the above covers both....

The majority are being misled and have been for centuries....do you have any idea about what was the truth before Christendom was born?

What Christendom believes is founded on lies.....the trinity....immortality of the soul ....and hellfire are all adoptions from paganism by the "church" that claimed to represent Christ, but did the exact opposite.
Protestantism broke the power of the Roman Catholic church, but it did little to unite the Christians under one banner....they took their mother's dirty laundry with them when they left, and wondered why they ended up in such a disunited and fragmented mess. (1 Corinthians 1:10)

Being given a chance to redeem themselves in the 1,000 years, would not be awakening to everlasting contempt. What you say is unfounded and unbiblical.

Aunty Jane · Sep 20, 2022

teamventure said:
Being given a chance to redeem themselves in the 1,000 years, would not be awakening to everlasting contempt. What you say is unfounded and unbiblical.

If you want to serve a god who tortures people in an everlasting fire, then you are welcome to him.....the symbolism in the Bible is easily explained when you know what you are reading, what the symbolism represents, and you know God's personality.

When the Israelites were burning their children in the fire, offering their infants to the false god Molech, what was God's response?
Jeremiah 7:31...
"They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire—something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind." (NIV)

The Valley of Ben Hinnom is where this atrocity was taking place.....God stopped the practice of child sacrifice and turned the valley into a rubbish dump where the fires were kept burning day and night.....and the maggots were well fed....they never died because there was always plenty for them to feed on. If you make the symbols into reality you have a very fiendish god.

If he told his people to stop this abominable practice that never entered his mind...why on earth would he do that to his own children? :doldrums:

Jack · Sep 20, 2022

Aunty Jane said:
If you want to serve a god who tortures people in an everlasting fire, then you are welcome to him.....the symbolism in the Bible is easily explained when you know what you are reading, what the symbolism represents, and you know God's personality.

When the Israelites were burning their children in the fire, offering their infants to the false god Molech, what was God's response?
Jeremiah 7:31...
"They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire—something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind." (NIV)

The Valley of Ben Hinnom is where this atrocity was taking place.....God stopped the practice of child sacrifice and turned the valley into a rubbish dump where the fires were kept burning day and night.....and the maggots were well fed....they never died because there was always plenty for them to feed on. If you make the symbols into reality you have a very fiendish god.

If he told his people to stop this abominable practice that never entered his mind...why on earth would he do that to his own children?

It's your word VS Jesus' Word. Should we believe you / Kingdom Hallway to Hell or Jesus?

Matthew 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

I believe Jesus, not Kingdom Hall!

face2face · Sep 20, 2022

Jack said:
It's your word VS Jesus' Word. Should we believe you / Kingdom Hallway to Hell or Jesus?

Matthew 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

I believe Jesus, not Kingdom Hall!

“Gehenna” = “Valley of Hinnom” - place of idolatrous worship where the “little ones” were burnt in the fire!!! 2 Chronicles 28:3

Josiah defiled this valley as a dump 2 Kings 23:10

Not from Kingdom Hall - both Biblical and extra Biblical references support this truth.

F2F

keithr · Sep 20, 2022

Jack said:
I believe Jesus, not Kingdom Hall!

I'm quite sure that Aunty Jane also believes Jesus. The difference is not that one believes Jesus and the other not, it's who correctly understands what Jesus and God taught, as recorded in the Bible.

Consider these verses:

1 John 4:7-11,16 (ASV):

(7) Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is begotten of God, and knoweth God.
(8) He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
(9) Herein was the love of God manifested in us, that God hath sent his only begotten Son into the world that we might live through him.
(10) Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
(11) Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.
(16) And we know and have believed the love which God hath in us. God is love; and he that abideth in love abideth in God, and God abideth in him.

John 3:16 (WEB):

(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

God is perfect, and He has perfect love for all mankind ("the world") so that He was willing to sacrifice the life of His only begotten son so that we might have eternal life and not perish ("perish" is translated from the Greek word apollumi which means "to destroy fully", according to Strong's Concordance). It is inconceivable that if He loves mankind that much that He would plan to torture many people with intense pain for all eternity - that would demonstrate intense hatred and spitefulness, not intense love.

Ezekiel 18:23 (WEB):

(23) Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked?” says the Lord Yahweh; “and not rather that he should return from his way, and live?

2 Peter 3:9 (WEB):

(9) The Lord is not slow concerning his promise, as some count slowness; but is patient with us, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

God desires that all mankind should repent, and that nobody should perish. He loves everybody, and does not want anybody to die, so He would not contemplate torturing anybody for all eternity. To say such is an insult to the loving, compassionate, merciful and just God YHWH, whose name means "Self-existing father of love".

face2face · Sep 20, 2022

keithr said:
I'm quite sure that Aunty Jane also believes Jesus. The difference is not that one believes Jesus and the other not, it's who correctly understands what Jesus and God taught, as recorded in the Bible.

Consider these verses:

1 John 4:7-11,16 (ASV):

(7) Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is begotten of God, and knoweth God.
(8) He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
(9) Herein was the love of God manifested in us, that God hath sent his only begotten Son into the world that we might live through him.
(10) Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
(11) Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.
(16) And we know and have believed the love which God hath in us. God is love; and he that abideth in love abideth in God, and God abideth in him.

John 3:16 (WEB):

(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

God is perfect, and He has perfect love for all mankind ("the world") so that He was willing to sacrifice the life of His only begotten son so that we might have eternal life and not perish ("perish" is translated from the Greek word apollumi which means "to destroy fully", according to Strong's Concordance). It is inconceivable that if He loves mankind that much that He would plan to torture many people with intense pain for all eternity - that would demonstrate intense hatred and spitefulness, not intense love.

Ezekiel 18:23 (WEB):

(23) Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked?” says the Lord Yahweh; “and not rather that he should return from his way, and live?
2 Peter 3:9 (WEB):

(9) The Lord is not slow concerning his promise, as some count slowness; but is patient with us, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

God desires that all mankind should repent, and that nobody should perish. He loves everybody, and does not want anybody to die, so He would not contemplate torturing anybody for all eternity. To say such is an insult to the loving, compassionate, merciful and just God YHWH, whose name means "Self-existing father of love".

This is a good post @Jack worthy of your consideration.
Unfortunately you have attached notions to the Word of a literal place of eternal fire, when in reality it was a severe way of demonstrating eternal death i.e never to be remember...forgotten for all time.
F2F

keithr · Sep 20, 2022

Aunty Jane said:
Being sinless and tempted as Adam and his wife were, there is now nothing to prove....those who succumb will be eliminated from existence to join Adam and Eve in a place from which no one returns.

Romans 5:12 (WEB):

(12) Therefore as sin entered into the world through one man, and death through sin; so death passed to all men, because all sinned.

We all die, because we were all born with a sinful nature and we all inherited a decaying, dying body from Adam - we share in Adam's punishment. Therefore in order to redeem all mankind, a perfect human man was needed to pay Adam's penalty (death) for him. Jesus was that redeeming sacrifice. Jesus had just one perfect human body to offer as a sacrifice, as a substitute for Adam, to pay Adam's penalty for his sin. By paying Adam's penalty, both Adam and all his descendants can have their sins forgiven. So Adam is redeemed. Eve was "one flesh" with Adam - God made her from Adam's flesh - Genesis 2:23 (WEB):

(23) The man said, “This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh. She will be called ‘woman,’ because she was taken out of Man.”

Therefore Eve is also redeemed because she is considered part of Adam. God could have simply created the woman from scratch, just as He created Adam, but He didn't for a reason - so that Jesus' sacrifice would redeem Eve too; the whole of mankind has been redeemed by Jesus' sacrifice.

1 Timothy 2:6 (KJV):

(6) Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

That's a ransom for all, not a ransom for all except Adam and Eve!

face2face · Sep 20, 2022

keithr said:
Romans 5:12 (WEB):
Therefore Eve is also redeemed because she is considered part of Adam.

keithr

Have you ever noticed John picking up on your point here:

John 19:32 So the soldiers came and broke the legs of the two men who had been crucified with Jesus, first the one and then the other. 19:33 But when they came to Jesus and saw that he was already dead, they did not break his legs (emphasis on already!)

CMP

Genesis 2:21 (emphasis on sleep mentioned twice!)

The Bride of Christ was given life from the side of Christ just as Eve was of Adam. It's as though John was making the point that Jesus was now dead i.e asleep and the bride was now given life.

Also Paul refers to the formation of Eve as typical of the formation of the Bride of Christ in 2 Corinthians 11:1-2 & Ephesians 5:25-26.

Natural first then the spiritual.

F2F

keithr · Sep 20, 2022

face2face said:
Have you ever noticed John picking up on your point here:

I don't think that was the point that John was making in John 19:32-33, but yes, Adam was a type for Jesus, and Eve was a type for the Church, the bride of Christ (Romans 5:14 - "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those whose sins weren’t like Adam’s disobedience, who is a foreshadowing of him who was to come").

teamventure · Sep 20, 2022

Aunty Jane said:
If you want to serve a god who tortures people in an everlasting fire, then you are welcome to him.....the symbolism in the Bible is easily explained when you know what you are reading, what the symbolism represents, and you know God's personality.

When the Israelites were burning their children in the fire, offering their infants to the false god Molech, what was God's response?
Jeremiah 7:31...
"They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire—something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind." (NIV)

The Valley of Ben Hinnom is where this atrocity was taking place.....God stopped the practice of child sacrifice and turned the valley into a rubbish dump where the fires were kept burning day and night.....and the maggots were well fed....they never died because there was always plenty for them to feed on. If you make the symbols into reality you have a very fiendish god.

If he told his people to stop this abominable practice that never entered his mind...why on earth would he do that to his own children?

He wouldn't do that to his own children, it is the children of the devil who end up in hell. Very rudimentary.
You are just saying that you don't believe scipture as plainly stated and you allegorize scripture because you don't agree with it as written.

face2face · Sep 20, 2022

keithr said:
I don't think that was the point that John was making in John 19:32-33, but yes, Adam was a type for Jesus, and Eve was a type for the Church, the bride of Christ (Romans 5:14 - "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those whose sins weren’t like Adam’s disobedience, who is a foreshadowing of him who was to come").

True.
I may not have explained the point well enough.
The bride was given life when the blood and water came from his side - he was required to be dead already before this could take place just as Adam was put into a sleep (and he slept) before his side could be opened and a rib taken. John being the eagle could see the importance of this connection back to Adam and Eve to fulfill the type.
F2F

Aunty Jane · Sep 20, 2022

keithr said:
Romans 5:12 (WEB):

(12) Therefore as sin entered into the world through one man, and death through sin; so death passed to all men, because all sinned.

We all die, because we were all born with a sinful nature and we all inherited a decaying, dying body from Adam - we share in Adam's punishment. Therefore in order to redeem all mankind, a perfect human man was needed to pay Adam's penalty (death) for him. Jesus was that redeeming sacrifice. Jesus had just one perfect human body to offer as a sacrifice, as a substitute for Adam, to pay Adam's penalty for his sin. By paying Adam's penalty, both Adam and all his descendants can have their sins forgiven. So Adam is redeemed. Eve was "one flesh" with Adam - God made her from Adam's flesh - Genesis 2:23 (WEB):

(23) The man said, “This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh. She will be called ‘woman,’ because she was taken out of Man.”

Therefore Eve is also redeemed because she is considered part of Adam. God could have simply created the woman from scratch, just as He created Adam, but He didn't for a reason - so that Jesus' sacrifice would redeem Eve too; the whole of mankind has been redeemed by Jesus' sacrifice.

1 Timothy 2:6 (KJV):

(6) Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

That's a ransom for all, not a ransom for all except Adam and Eve!

I have to disagree here because there was no valid reason or excuse for Adam to join his disobedient wife in taking from God something he told them was his personal property.
She was deceived by the serpent but still disobeyed a direct command from her Creator, knowing that it carried the death penalty. Satan knew that too but if he could just separate the humans from their God, they would be his and he could enjoy being their god and ruler.

Adam had choices and the one he made condemned all of his children to death. Jesus died for Adam’s children, born in sin through no fault on their part. It wasn’t through the woman that mankind was condemned to death....it was through “one man”. (Romans 5:12)
Adam could have changed the course of human history by refusing what his wife offered him. He had existed for some time whilst being instructed by his God and observing and naming all the animals, and this was before Eve was created. He knew his God and he knew what was expected of him, yet he chose to throw himself and all his future offspring under the bus....and for what? The devil had divided his loyalties.....something he does to this day.....“divide and conquer”.

The woman would have suffered the stated penalty of “death” and a “return to the dust”. No mention is made of any afterlife or the prospect of any future life for either of them. They stole what belonged to their Sovereign ruler and it carried the death penalty. For them it was permanent death. They died without a single word of repentance, nor any sacrifice for their sins. Abel is the first righteous man mentioned in the Bible and his sacrifices were precious in God’s eyes because they came from a righteous heart. He did not emulate his rebellious parents or his jealous older brother. In the scriptures, the righteous are counted from Able, not Adam, Eve or Cain.

If there is no repentance, there can be no forgiveness. That is why God will resurrect those who never had the opportunity to know Jehovah or his son. They did not die unrepentant...they died in ignorance.
This is the love God shows for his human children.....it is not based on sentiment, but on his perfect justice and strict obedience to his stated commands. His laws to Israel reinforce that necessity. Mercy could be extended but it was not based on sentiment...it was always based on individual circumstances.

Many today will assume that their “Christianity” is acceptable to God, and express confidence in their salvation, but Jesus already showed us that calling yourself a “Christian” means nothing if you are not found “doing the will of his Father” (Matthew 7:21-23) He also said that “few” are on the road to life. (Matthew 7:13-14) That means that the “many” are on the wrong road, but they are confident that they are on the right one.....I wonder who might give them that impression?

So....what is the will of the Father and how do we do it? What are your thoughts?

quietthinker · Sep 20, 2022

What Are we Getting Saved From?
Could it be from navel gazing?

Aunty Jane · Sep 20, 2022

teamventure said:
He wouldn't do that to his own children, it is the children of the devil who end up in hell. Very rudimentary.

Who sends them to this place? It isn’t the devil who tortures them...it is supposedly your god who enjoys this form of punishment....I know whose personality is expressed this way....certainly not the God who is the epitome of love. He does not even desire the death of the wicked, let alone torturing them for eternity. What purpose is served in that? Can you tell me? God is about repentance and forgiveness....not just punishment for the sake of it.

You just can’t see that all the things you think Christ taught are the product of a corrupted church....and the “apostasy” that Jesus and his apostles foretold happened just as he said it would, but so long ago that you don’t know, or were not taught any different. The divided mess that is Christendom, is not even close to the teachings of the one they claim as their “Lord”. (Matthew 7:21-23) But you will never “see” that unless you open your “heart” so that God can open your “eyes”. (John 6:65)

You are just saying that you don't believe scipture as plainly stated and you allegorize scripture because you don't agree with it as written.

You can believe that if you wish but the Bible is full of symbolisms...it’s not my place to force anyone to believe a word I say....I am just a messenger. I “plant and water”, but only ‘God can make the seed of truth grow’.....and we already know that it only grows in what God considers “fine soil”. The easiest person on the planet to fool...is ourselves.
Who does God see, compared to what we see in ourselves?

Have we been taken in by the counterfeit “Christianity” that Jesus said would be “sown by the devil”? It was beginning to surface whilst the apostles were still alive...that is how long it’s been festering in the world, slowly developing into something Christ will ultimately reject as those he “never knew”.
You can evaluate the evidence for yourself and come to your own conclusions....God allows us all to do this.

At the judgment, we will all be caught in the act of being ourselves....

face2face · Sep 20, 2022

keithr said:
Romans 5:12 (WEB):
1 Timothy 2:6 (KJV):

(6) Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

That's a ransom for all, not a ransom for all except Adam and Eve!

I know Aunty Jane has tried to explain the JW's position on Adam & Eve in prior conversations and it seems they have a number of hangups concerning their sin as though it was a different kind of sin compared to those Jane would make.

She cannot discern the coats of skin God made to cover them as a sign of the way in which He would ultimately deal with sin through the sin covering of His Son.

It's true they tried in vain to cover their own nakedness but again God dealt with that via the shedding of blood. You cannot cover sin in the absence of a sacrifice. They had yet to learn the lesson, that "without shedding of blood there is no remission (of sin)" as per Hebrews 9:22; Matthew 26:28

Do you know how they explain away firstly the covering of skins and secondly the obvious animal sacrifice required to do this?

Job 31:33 is also important...the point being, if there was no hope for Adam, God would have left him with their own aprons - in God dealing with their sin, He is showing hope for salvation. Further still, remove their aprons and leave them in their nakedness! I think Jane would the first to state this is not the Merciful God we worship.

F2F

face2face · Sep 20, 2022

Aunty Jane said:
I have to disagree here because there was no valid reason or excuse for Adam to join his disobedient wife in taking from God something he told them was his personal property.

So you believe there are excuses for sin? Valid reasons which are acceptable to God?

Aunty Jane said:
She was deceived by the serpent but still disobeyed a direct command from her Creator, knowing that it carried the death penalty. Satan knew that too but if he could just separate the humans from their God, they would be his and he could enjoy being their god and ruler.

All have sinned Jane...all have done 1 John 3:4 - with only one exception!

Aunty Jane said:
Adam had choices and the one he made condemned all of his children to death. Jesus died for Adam’s children, born in sin through no fault on their part. It wasn’t through the woman that mankind was condemned to death....it was through “one man”. (Romans 5:12)

All mankind has choices Jane...I am still confused why you see their sin any different to yours say? You are not communicating your position very effectively.

Take the presumptuous sin David committed (Psalms 19:13) with Bathsheba. God showed him mercy but Adam and Eve were unable to work out their salvation with trembling and fear as he did?

I think what you are missing is a verse which supports your judgement on them i.e. their sin was unforgivable. We can't do that of course because their lives outside the Garden is not fully recorded...only God knows!

Aunty Jane said:
Adam could have changed the course of human history by refusing what his wife offered him. He had existed for some time whilst being instructed by his God and observing and naming all the animals, and this was before Eve was created. He knew his God and he knew what was expected of him, yet he chose to throw himself and all his future offspring under the bus....and for what? The devil had divided his loyalties.....something he does to this day.....“divide and conquer”.

I think its spiritually naive to believe that a being made of the earth, earthy, was able to live a sinless existence. Jesus had God as his Father and Mary as his mother and he was in agony all his life overcoming the flesh - how were two naive creatures able to overcome?

Impossible and God knew this which is why He placed a consequence in the garden!

Jane, who taught Abel the truth you now know he possessed before his death? Who taught him about the principle of the shedding of blood? Who taught him about offering the firstling of the flock?

Could only be his parents!...and where did they learn?

F2F

face2face · Sep 20, 2022

teamventure said:
He wouldn't do that to his own children, it is the children of the devil who end up in hell. Very rudimentary.
You are just saying that you don't believe scipture as plainly stated and you allegorize scripture because you don't agree with it as written.

It's not about not agreeing with what is written...it's reading it with understanding - big difference.

Jack · Sep 20, 2022

face2face said:
“Gehenna” = “Valley of Hinnom” - place of idolatrous worship where the “little ones” were burnt in the fire!!! 2 Chronicles 28:3

Josiah defiled this valley as a dump 2 Kings 23:10

Not from Kingdom Hall - both Biblical and extra Biblical references support this truth.

F2F

Then why are you doing the JW Bible TWIST?

Jack · Sep 20, 2022

keithr said:
I'm quite sure that Aunty Jane also believes Jesus. The difference is not that one believes Jesus and the other not, it's who correctly understands what Jesus and God taught, as recorded in the Bible.

Consider these verses:

1 John 4:7-11,16 (ASV):

(7) Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is begotten of God, and knoweth God.
(8) He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
(9) Herein was the love of God manifested in us, that God hath sent his only begotten Son into the world that we might live through him.
(10) Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
(11) Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.
(16) And we know and have believed the love which God hath in us. God is love; and he that abideth in love abideth in God, and God abideth in him.

John 3:16 (WEB):

(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

God is perfect, and He has perfect love for all mankind ("the world") so that He was willing to sacrifice the life of His only begotten son so that we might have eternal life and not perish ("perish" is translated from the Greek word apollumi which means "to destroy fully", according to Strong's Concordance). It is inconceivable that if He loves mankind that much that He would plan to torture many people with intense pain for all eternity - that would demonstrate intense hatred and spitefulness, not intense love.

Ezekiel 18:23 (WEB):

(23) Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked?” says the Lord Yahweh; “and not rather that he should return from his way, and live?
2 Peter 3:9 (WEB):

(9) The Lord is not slow concerning his promise, as some count slowness; but is patient with us, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

God desires that all mankind should repent, and that nobody should perish. He loves everybody, and does not want anybody to die, so He would not contemplate torturing anybody for all eternity. To say such is an insult to the loving, compassionate, merciful and just God YHWH, whose name means "Self-existing father of love".

Hell will be filled with religious people who don't believe in Hell.
Revelation 20
15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Jack · Sep 20, 2022

face2face said:
This is a good post @Jack worthy of your consideration.
Unfortunately you have attached notions to the Word of a literal place of eternal fire, when in reality it was a severe way of demonstrating eternal death i.e never to be remember...forgotten for all time.
F2F

You don't like Literal Bible? I'd bet you like John 3:16 as literal though.

What Are we Getting Saved From?

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