Why Revelation is Special

VictoryinJesus · Sep 22, 2022

David Boyer said:
The special blessing is in Rev 1:3
Rev 22:18+19 are the curse.

Your question doesn't make sense. You want me to compare two things (one of which is not even in the passage) in the light of what it is not.
You want me to comment on how a curse verse is referring to a blessing and to the "Revelation of Jesus Christ", a phrase not in the passage.
If this is a real question maybe you could flesh it out a bit for me.
What blessing do you see in 22:19?

What stands out In Revelation 22:19 and Revelation 22:20 to me is “if you add, these plagues will be added to you”
“if you take away from, you will be taken away from”
…I can’t find it now but “if you add unto …it will be added unto you” and “if you take away, you will be taken away” to me lines up with where Jesus Christ spoke about the Lord coming to all the Pharisees, asking them if you have done these things what will be done to you…I think they said “we will be removed”. Or even the parable of a man forgiven and released from his debt; yet another comes to him begging for mercy, patience and forgiveness…and the one forgiven of his master, refuses patience, mercy and forgiveness instead beating his brother, grabbing him by the throat demanding “pay what you owe me”
…then the question what will be done? As he cast into prison, he also will go into prison.

again, you may ask what are you talking about? I’m suggesting the Revelation of Christ is in those passages…and in the Old Testament also. For instance:
Psalm 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,
^the Revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave him to show unto his servants
Hebrews 10:7-9 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do (keep)Your will, O God. (The Revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave him to show… “I only do what I see the Father do and only say what the Father says.”
8] Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin you would not, neither had pleasure therein ; which are offered by the law; [9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

In the volume of the book it is written of me
…what “volume of the book” the Revelation of Jesus Christ as literally the last book of the Bible …or the whole of it all?

is Jesus Christ the volume of Genesis unto Revelation…or does He have no volume, say for instance, in “Let there be Light”?

David Boyer · Sep 22, 2022

VictoryinJesus said:
I don’t see a blessing in 22:19. But was only considering in 22:19 being removed from the book of Life. So if there is a blessing in 22:19 it is the book of Life itself, which you don’t want to be removed from? If Revelation is the only book that has a blessing for him who reads, keeps … the result of not “keeping”
Is removal from the book of Life??then does the book of Life hold a special blessing, or is the book of Life which holds a blessing, the Revelation of the Lamb? For example John the Baptist when he witnessed “Behold the Lamb of God” not referring to himself, but unto Christ Jesus.

Luke 10:20-22 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven. [21] In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hid these things (the Revelation of Jesus Christ???) from the wise and prudent, and has revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight. [22] All things are delivered to me of my Father (again, The Revelation God gave to the Son to reveal) : and no man knows who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.
^you may say it doesn’t fit, wrong or right it does fit to me. You asked…where do you see a blessing in that verse? I don’t, I see a taking out of the blessing of Life..which is the Revelation of Jesus Christ God gave to show his servants..

Rev 22:19 would be a direct curse by Jesus Himself. If you take away words... you get taken away. That is how I read it.

Three things make Rev special IMO
Rev 1:3: Blessing to read, hear and keep the words of Revelation
Rev 1:19: Commanded to be written by Jesus Himself.
Rev 22:18-19: Curse by Jesus for anyone who adds or removes words from Revelation.

The Lambs Book of Life is a register of who is invited to the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. Yep I want to go to that party.
There would be no inherit blessing to being in the Book of Life... the removal from the Book of Life would be the loss of Salvation. IMO.
Think of the Book of Life as the guest list in the bouncers hand. When you show up... bouncer checks the list... not on the list no entry... on the list welcome.

Stan B · Sep 22, 2022

Prim said:
You don’t care when it was written. David we should always care much about dates for they do matter very much. Truth7+7 post was much detailed and much interesting and not so much about rumbling at all : ) I’m still undecided on the date for the book of Revelation myself. What Truth7+7 says about the church fathers was most interesting though with other references he mentions like such scholars as Westcott & Hort that does leave much to be desired. Simply Because it’s well established that they were highly liberal and heretical in many of their beliefs. and as to the old age factor, well In ancient times you were thankful to see 50. So the question of how they viewed the beginning of old age could be more flexible when compared to today’s life span of where we live well into our 80’s when evaluating the commencement of Johns old age..Those be the only two things that I do query in Truth7+7’s post upon the first reading. The post be exemplary. But the dating of the bible be much more important than merely just the book of Revelations when concerning the bible and for more important reasons. Take our 4 gospels for example there be many modern scholars and critics that would like to have our gospel accounts moved and dated well into the 2nd century AD and well away from the eye witness period of 30-70 AD meaning that there be no real eye witness testimony for the gospels if they were written so late and so this could be purported as mere hear say and fables by the skeptics with a far later date. That be why dating it is so very historically important to counter such accusations.

Prim, I agree. Your concerns are important and they are valid.

The Book of Revelation was written in AD 96. Back in 1600, Bishop Ussher devoted his life to the study of Bible chronology, and he is the gold standard. My Schofield Bible shows the date at the top of the page throughout the entire Bible.

And then going back to the Church Fathers, Athanasius Archbishop of Alexandria AD 328 – 373 Easter/Festal Epistles Letter xxxix

Athanasius when asked to provide a listing for the Canon of Scripture was concerned that the Canon of Scripture was something that had been known from the very beginning.

"Again it is not tedious to speak of the [books] of the New Testament. These are, the four Gospels, according to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Afterwards, the Acts of the Apostles and Epistles (called Catholic), seven, viz. of James, one; of Peter, two; of John, three; after these, one of Jude. In addition, there are fourteen Epistles of Paul, written in this order. The first, to the Romans; then two to the Corinthians; after these, to the Galatians; next, to the Ephesians; then to the Philippians; then to the Colossians; after these, two to the Thessalonians, and that to the Hebrews; and again, two to Timothy; one to Titus; and lastly, that to Philemon. And besides, the Revelation of John."

These texts have kept in place what liberal "scholars?" tried to destroy. For instance these "scholars" with really nothing to say declared that the Epistle to the Hebrews was not written by the Apostle Paul. Complete news for the early church, because they knew who wrote the Epistle to the Hebrews: Paul.

VictoryinJesus · Sep 22, 2022

David Boyer said:
There would be no inherit blessing to being in the Book of Life...

how do you know?
You never did answer where in the OT and the New there is reference to His being in the volume of the book …do you say the book He is in the volume of is: the book of Revelation only?

Topical Bible: Volume

I’m not good at the timing of when the Revelation of Jesus Christ was written…but it would have to be written by John before Paul…because Paul said He was taught by the Revelation of Jesus Christ, given of God and not of men. OR, in my personal opinion all the times Paul read the OT it wasn’t until God gave the Revelation of Jesus Christ, where Paul saw Jesus Christ there all along in the OT and the New.

Another example of “the Revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave unto him to show to his servants is Acts 8:30-35 And Philip ran there to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, do you understand what you read? [31] And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him. [32] The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth: [33] In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth. [34] And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of who does the prophet speak this? of himself, or of some other man? [35] Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

Revelation 1:3 Blessed is he that reads, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

Was Philip blessed to read, and hear the words of this prophecy …beginning at the same scripture …in Isaiah 53:7-8 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he opened not his mouth. [8] He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

David Boyer · Sep 22, 2022

VictoryinJesus said:
how do you know?
You never did answer where in the OT and the New there is reference to His being in the volume of the book …do you say the book He is in the volume of is: the book of Revelation only?

Topical Bible: Volume

I’m not good at the timing of when the Revelation of Jesus Christ was written…but it would have to be written by John before Paul…because Paul said He was taught by the Revelation of Jesus Christ, given of God and not of men. OR, in my personal opinion all the times Paul read the OT it wasn’t unto God gave Revelation, where Paul saw Jesus Christ there all along in the OT.

Another example of “the Revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave unto him to show to his servants is Acts 8:30-35 And Philip ran there to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, do you understand what you read? [31] And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him. [32] The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth: [33] In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth. [34] And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of who does the prophet speak this? of himself, or of some other man? [35] Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

Revelation 1:3 Blessed is he that reads, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

Was Philip blessed to read, and hear the words of this prophecy …beginning at the same scripture …in Isaiah 53:7-8 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he opened not his mouth. [8] He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

Your questions make no sense. What is "His being in the volume of the book"??? Use different phrasing as I don't understand the question.
Ask people on this post when the books were written. They say that Revelation was the last book written.

What does the phrase "book He is in the volume of is" mean?

VictoryinJesus · Sep 22, 2022

David Boyer said:
Your questions make no sense. What is "His being in the volume of the book"??? Use different phrasing as I don't understand the question.
Ask people on this post when the books were written. They say that Revelation was the last book written.

What does the phrase "book He is in the volume of is" mean?

Psalm 40:7 Lexicon: Then I said, "Behold, I come; In the scroll of the book it is written of me.

just asking what that means to you?

David Boyer · Sep 22, 2022

VictoryinJesus said:
Psalm 40:7 Lexicon: Then I said, "Behold, I come; In the scroll of the book it is written of me.

just asking what that means to you?

Nothing... because I have no idea what you are talking about.

VictoryinJesus · Sep 22, 2022

David Boyer said:
Nothing... because I have no idea what you are talking about.

Not even?
Hebrews 10:7 Lexicon: "THEN I SAID, 'BEHOLD, I HAVE COME (IN THE SCROLL OF THE BOOK IT IS WRITTEN OF ME) TO DO YOUR WILL, O GOD.'"

David Boyer · Sep 22, 2022

VictoryinJesus said:
Not even?
Hebrews 10:7 Lexicon: "THEN I SAID, 'BEHOLD, I HAVE COME (IN THE SCROLL OF THE BOOK IT IS WRITTEN OF ME) TO DO YOUR WILL, O GOD.'"

I don't have any clue what you are talking about. I read your link. Not a blessed clue what you are asking me.

VictoryinJesus · Sep 22, 2022

David Boyer said:
I don't have any clue what you are talking about. I read your link. Not a blessed clue what you are asking me.

do you see in the OT where it was prophesied “I come” referring to the Son of God will come to do the Will of His Father?

David Boyer · Sep 22, 2022

VictoryinJesus said:
do you see in the OT where it was prophesied “I come” referring to the Son of God will come to do the Will of His Father?

I don't know. I haven't looked into that exact question.
But what does that have to do with the OP?
And what is with all the "volume of the book" references you made?
Confusing...

DanielConway · Sep 22, 2022

ScottA said:
I marvel at those who can and do study and produce such works...but there is something lost in it, something much simpler that is all that is needed to know the truth.

Scott, if you open a post and then just throw out some sophistic prose that doesn't carry any kind of point to a conclusion eventually people are going to treat you as the boy who called wolf and stop paying attention to anything you say. Not everything that gets posted here requires a response. If you like what a post says just "like" it and be done with it. If someone else beats you to the punch and does an adequate job of refuting the original post, just "like" the rebuttal. If the poster has a history of posting junk and refuses to let go of his conclusions and plays rhetorical tricks around them to support them, like changing his premises if his conclusion gets busted, don't post anything at all after a point because the guy obviously is not in interested in honest debate and in fact may be incapable of it.

DanielConway · Sep 22, 2022

David Boyer said:
I don't care when it was written. And you really should announce your purpose in posting something. I don't read such long ramblings unless there is a reason to... and you don't provide any.

And yes Jesus is Lord.

I disagree 100%. I have been a late date advocate for a few decades and that synopsis was the most complete argument for the AD 96 dating I have ever read. In fact the OP better be careful because so much of the original author's scholarship is in place here that he may be going beyond the permissible level of attribution allowed under fair use. Really, check out that possibility before you do that again, you may be violating copyright. Buuut, could you insert a link to the work? I would like it as a reference.

VictoryinJesus · Sep 22, 2022

David Boyer said:
I don't know. I haven't looked into that exact question.
But what does that have to do with the OP?
And what is with all the "volume of the book" references you made?
Confusing...

what does that have to do with blessed by the Revelation of Jesus Christ? To be able to see him there in the OT as the one saying “I come”, the one prophecy speaks of coming?

Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Consider that “the volume of the book is written of me” in Hebrews 10:7 with “which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Who else can own that the volume of the book is about them—written in the law of Moses, in the prophets, and in the psalms— and the reason why we claim to be blessed of God…that Christ Jesus did come to do the Will of God the Father. Which was said back in the OT “I come to do Your will God.”
Matthew 26:42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.

ScottA · Sep 22, 2022

DanielConway said:
Scott, if you open a post and then just throw out some sophistic prose that doesn't carry any kind of point to a conclusion eventually people are going to treat you as the boy who called wolf and stop paying attention to anything you say. Not everything that gets posted here requires a response. If you like what a post says just "like" it and be done with it. If someone else beats you to the punch and does an adequate job of refuting the original post, just "like" the rebuttal. If the poster has a history of posting junk and refuses to let go of his conclusions and plays rhetorical tricks around them to support them, like changing his premises if his conclusion gets busted, don't post anything at all after a point because the guy obviously is not in interested in honest debate and in fact may be incapable of it.

You're not my dad.

Waiting on him · Sep 22, 2022

David Boyer said:
John proclaims a special blessing for reading, hearing, and keeping the words of the book of Revelation. What other books of the Bible contain a blessing for reading, hearing, and keeping the words? Note that understanding is not part of the blessing, so interpretation is not really a component of the blessing.

One of the components to be able to attend the wedding as you call it is, keeping the commands… Would it be necessary to interpret what those commands are, and whom they are written to in order to keep them?

David Boyer · Sep 23, 2022

VictoryinJesus said:
what does that have to do with blessed by the Revelation of Jesus Christ? To be able to see him there in the OT as the one saying “I come”, the one prophecy speaks of coming?

Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Consider that “the volume of the book is written of me” in Hebrews 10:7 with “which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Who else can own that the volume of the book is about them—written in the law of Moses, in the prophets, and in the psalms— and the reason why we claim to be blessed of God…that Christ Jesus did come to do the Will of God the Father. Which was said back in the OT “I come to do Your will God.”
Matthew 26:42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.

Don't understand you.
At all.
Your train of though does not make sense to me.

David Boyer · Sep 23, 2022

Waiting on him said:
One of the components to be able to attend the wedding as you call it is, keeping the commands… Would it be necessary to interpret what those commands are, and whom they are written to in order to keep them?

Do you not believe in the Wedding Feast of the Lamb?
Why interpret? Why not just read, hear and keep the words of the book?
Was Jesus muttering? Did He slur His words?
Just listen and do. Don't interpret(change His words).

But you seam to be conflating my views on Revelation with belief in the entire scriptures.
What we are talking about is Revelation... not the rest of the Bible.
And Revelation has a specific curse from Jesus Christ... not to "interpret" Revelation.

VictoryinJesus · Sep 23, 2022

David Boyer said:
Don't understand you.
At all.
Your train of though does not make sense to me.

honestly. That is concerning to me. Not because there is something wrong with you, but because how much something must be wrong with me. It is not you. Right now I can’t find a job. I have trouble communicating in relationships. And even here I have the same troubles I have in every day life. It is scary because I’m seeing how much I need counseling but wondering if my head can ever be fixed. Sorry I kept coming at you with comments over and over while you kept saying that I wasn’t making sense. I heard you this time. I’m stopping.

Waiting on him · Sep 23, 2022

David Boyer said:
Do you not believe in the Wedding Feast of the Lamb?
Why interpret? Why not just read, hear and keep the words of the book?
Was Jesus muttering? Did He slur His words?
Just listen and do. Don't interpret(change His words).

I fail to see anything in this particular book for me to do.

Why Revelation is Special

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