The Christian Theocracy

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Randy Kluth

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God promised Abraham a nation consisting of his descendants, ie Israel, as well as a family of nations who share Abraham's faith. Israel became a theocracy and a model for future Christian nations to base their societies on God's laws, as well.

Some people argue that the NT does not describe a Christian Theocracy, and instead focuses only on individual salvation. But that isn't quite true. We do come to Christ as individuals, but we are called into society, the Church.

And Abraham's nation, Israel, did become a model for the nations that God also promised to Abraham. Paul argued that this was fulfilled in the Church.

However, in the time of the writing of the NT, the Church had only begun as a minority within Israel, and had only started an outreach to the nations. Christianity was just a minority religion until Rome adopted Christianity under Theodosius.

So Christian nations did eventually evolve after the pattern of Israel's theocracy, and we have called them "Christian nations" typically. Today, the term "theocracy" is avoided out of concern to disassociate with the Islamic theocracy and other religious theocracies. But Christian nations, no matter the form of government, is a theocracy when the country is a self-proclaimed Christian country, or Christian state.

The failure of Israel as a theocracy did not mean the failure of their model for all nations. On the contrary, they showed that a theocracy only works when its principles are being responsibly followed.

The theocracy of Israel succeeded even before Christ because it was not based on perfection, but on the idea of redemption. Now that redemption is complete in Christ, it is affirmed that theocracy is God's model for the nations.

We are to responsibly follow Christian principles as a Christian society, without necessitating perfection. Christ has forgiven our sins, and this forgiveness applies when we regularly practice repentance.

Those who want to return to pagan forms of government are Antichristian, and Christians should not give up their belief in the Christian government, even if they are outnumbered. It is our testimony that is critical, and not the success of our society.
 

Truth7t7

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God promised Abraham a nation consisting of his descendants, ie Israel, as well as a family of nations who share Abraham's faith. Israel became a theocracy and a model for future Christian nations to base their societies on God's laws, as well.

Some people argue that the NT does not describe a Christian Theocracy, and instead focuses only on individual salvation. But that isn't quite true. We do come to Christ as individuals, but we are called into society, the Church.

And Abraham's nation, Israel, did become a model for the nations that God also promised to Abraham. Paul argued that this was fulfilled in the Church.

However, in the time of the writing of the NT, the Church had only begun as a minority within Israel, and had only started an outreach to the nations. Christianity was just a minority religion until Rome adopted Christianity under Theodosius.

So Christian nations did eventually evolve after the pattern of Israel's theocracy, and we have called them "Christian nations" typically. Today, the term "theocracy" is avoided out of concern to disassociate with the Islamic theocracy and other religious theocracies. But Christian nations, no matter the form of government, is a theocracy when the country is a self-proclaimed Christian country, or Christian state.

The failure of Israel as a theocracy did not mean the failure of their model for all nations. On the contrary, they showed that a theocracy only works when its principles are being responsibly followed.

The theocracy of Israel succeeded even before Christ because it was not based on perfection, but on the idea of redemption. Now that redemption is complete in Christ, it is affirmed that theocracy is God's model for the nations.

We are to responsibly follow Christian principles as a Christian society, without necessitating perfection. Christ has forgiven our sins, and this forgiveness applies when we regularly practice repentance.

Those who want to return to pagan forms of government are Antichristian, and Christians should not give up their belief in the Christian government, even if they are outnumbered. It is our testimony that is critical, and not the success of our society.
You will closely note, your OP is void of scripture

Your desire and dream of "National Salvation" for Israel is a "Fairy Tale"
 

Desire Of All Nations

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Your whole argument is based on Catholic and Protestants' revisionist versions of history, which is why it has very little merit. The "Christianity" that Rome legalized is a satanic counterfeit of the one practiced by the true Church of God. Your argument assumes that modern nations should just adopt it no matter how imperfect it is, but the obvious problem is that it overlooks the amount of persecution and bloodshed that Catholic Rome inflicted on everyone who rejected the religion.

We would be no better off under the kind of "Christian" theocracy that you're advocating for than we would Islamic theocracy because it is just as oppressive. It hasn't worked in any of the Catholic or Protestant theocracies of the past 1700 years, and it's not going to work now.

The theocracy God established through ancient Israel worked because they operated on the basis of laws that were designed for the well being of everybody in the nation, alongside the fact that the leaders had to ultimately answer to God. That has never been the case in any Catholic or Protestant theocracy in history because those religions were based on rejecting God's laws and His rule.
 

Keraz

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However, in the time of the writing of the NT, the Church had only begun as a minority within Israel, and had only started an outreach to the nations. Christianity was just a minority religion until Rome adopted Christianity under Theodosius.
Then the Roman Church set about killing anyone who didn't bow to their Pope and their unbiblical doctrines. Even today, they don't like their church members to have and study the Bible.
Every so called Christian nation, are only called that because Christianity is the predominant faith. Not because they operate their State on Christian principals.
But soon, the holy Land will be cleared and cleansed. Deuteronomy 32"34-43, and the righteous, faithful Christian peoples will go there and finally be the nation God always wanted in His holy Land. They will be His witnesses, Isaiah 43:10, John 15:27 and His Light to the nations; Isaiah 49:3-8, Matthew 5:14-16

A people who keep the faith- righteous Christians:

Isaiah 26:11 Lord; Your hand is lifted high, let the fire reserved for Your enemies consume them. The godless cannot see how You will protect Your people.
Isaiah 26:20-21 Go My people, enter your rooms and shut the doors after you. Withdraw for a little while, until the Lord’s wrath has passed. The Lord is coming from His dwelling place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their sins. Then the earth will show the blood shed on it and hide the slain no more.

Isaiah 25:9 On that Day, Your people will say: See, this is our God, we have waited for Him and He will deliver us, let us rejoice and exult in His deliverance.
Isaiah 25:1-3 God Almighty, You are my God, I shall praise You, for You have done wonderful things – long planned, certain and sure. You have turned cities into heaps of rubble, their houses swept away – never to be rebuilt. For this, many a cruel nation is in awe of You.

Isaiah 26:16-19 In our distress, Lord, we sought You out, chastened by the whisper of Your rebuke. As a woman with child cries out in her pains, so were we because of You, Lord. Our labour has been in vain, we achieved nothing for Your Land or people. But Your dead will live, those long dead who lay in the earth, will rise again, they will arise and shout for joy.

Isaiah 25:4-5 Truly, You have been a refuge to the poor and needy in their distress, their shelter from the tempest, shade from the heat. For the attack of the godless gets them nowhere and You silence the uproar of our enemies.

Isaiah 26:15 Lord, You have enlarged the nation and won honour for Yourself. You have extended all the frontiers of this country.

Isaiah 26:1-2 On that Day this song will be sung in Judah; We have a strong city – Open the gates, let a righteous nation enter, a people who kept the faith.
Reference: REB, NIV, KJV. Some verses abridged


The Lord’s hand of judgement is ready to strike, the fire reserved for Your enemies will consume them. Psalms 83, Isaiah 66:15-16, Malachi 4:1, Revelation 6:12-17

for the attack of the godless gets them nowhere, The fulfilment of Psalms 83, Micah 4:11-12, Jeremiah 49:35-37

Whole cities are destroyed and those killed will lie unburied. Amos 1:1-15, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Jeremiah 9:22, Ezekiel 21:1-7, Isaiah 17:1

But the Lord will be a refuge for His righteous people. Psalms 62:5-8, Zephaniah 2:3

..shade from the heat, they; withdraw for a little while,– take shelter from the fire reserved for His enemies, a huge Coronal Mass Ejection fireball, that will destroy them.
Isaiah 30:26-30, Proverbs 3:25-26, Zephaniah 3:8, 2 Peter 3:7

Then: a righteous nation enters, Matthew 21:43, into all of the holy Land area, as promised to the Patriarchs, by descent or grafted in by faith. Galatians 3:36-29

They will live in the new country of Beulah in peace and prosperity. Isaiah 62:1-5, Isaiah 35:1-10, Ezekiel 34:11-31, Jeremiah 31:10-14, Isaiah 27:6, Ezekiel 28:24-26, Romans 9:24-26

They are all the faithful Christians from every race, nation and language, Isaiah 66:18b-21, Revelation 7:9, who will fulfill their destiny to be a light to the nations and His witnesses to the world. Isaiah 43:10-12, John 15:27, Isaiah 66:19, Isaiah 49:8


Your dead will rise again This happens later, Jesus will bring the souls of the dead martyrs with Him at His Return. Revelation 6:9-11, Revelation 20:4 and then, after the Millennium. all who have ever lived will stand before God in Judgement. Revelation 20:11-15
 
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Davy

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God promised Abraham a nation consisting of his descendants, ie Israel, as well as a family of nations who share Abraham's faith. Israel became a theocracy and a model for future Christian nations to base their societies on God's laws, as well.

Some people argue that the NT does not describe a Christian Theocracy, and instead focuses only on individual salvation. But that isn't quite true. We do come to Christ as individuals, but we are called into society, the Church.

And Abraham's nation, Israel, did become a model for the nations that God also promised to Abraham. Paul argued that this was fulfilled in the Church.

However, in the time of the writing of the NT, the Church had only begun as a minority within Israel, and had only started an outreach to the nations. Christianity was just a minority religion until Rome adopted Christianity under Theodosius.

So Christian nations did eventually evolve after the pattern of Israel's theocracy, and we have called them "Christian nations" typically. Today, the term "theocracy" is avoided out of concern to disassociate with the Islamic theocracy and other religious theocracies. But Christian nations, no matter the form of government, is a theocracy when the country is a self-proclaimed Christian country, or Christian state.

The failure of Israel as a theocracy did not mean the failure of their model for all nations. On the contrary, they showed that a theocracy only works when its principles are being responsibly followed.

The theocracy of Israel succeeded even before Christ because it was not based on perfection, but on the idea of redemption. Now that redemption is complete in Christ, it is affirmed that theocracy is God's model for the nations.

We are to responsibly follow Christian principles as a Christian society, without necessitating perfection. Christ has forgiven our sins, and this forgiveness applies when we regularly practice repentance.

Those who want to return to pagan forms of government are Antichristian, and Christians should not give up their belief in the Christian government, even if they are outnumbered. It is our testimony that is critical, and not the success of our society.

You're on the right track, Biblically, but it certainly ain't a popular one. Many will hate you for even hinting to the Christian nations having taken over prophecy about God's Israel. That's why folks like Desire Of All Nations claimed your pushing revisionist history.

Gen 48:16-19
16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.


17 And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, it displeased him: and he held up his father's hand, to remove it from Ephraim's head unto Manasseh's head.

18 And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father: for this is the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head.

19 And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.

KJV

How many refuse to read that above and believe it. Jacob blessed Joseph's two sons Ephraim and Manasseh, saying for his name (Israel) to be named upon the lads, and that Ephraim's seed would become "a multitude of nations"! That means ISRAELITE NATIONS since Israel's name was to be named upon the two lads.

Back in Genesis 35, God had already promised Jacob that his seed would become "a nation, and a company of nations".

I am 100% positive that was fulfilled among the Western Christian nations of history. And that is why the western Christian nations have been under attack by Satan's host that reject Jesus Christ, including the unbelieving Jews that wanted Jesus murdered.
 
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Pearl

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When we accept Jesus we become part of a new nation, that Holy Nation mention in scripture, the one that has no boundaries, a nation whose king is King Jesus.

1 Peter 2:9
But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.
 

Enoch111

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So Christian nations did eventually evolve after the pattern of Israel's theocracy, and we have called them "Christian nations" typically. Today, the term "theocracy" is avoided out of concern to disassociate with the Islamic theocracy and other religious theocracies. But Christian nations, no matter the form of government, is a theocracy when the country is a self-proclaimed Christian country, or Christian state.
This is completely false. The very word "theocracy" means that God is the King who rules over that nation. There was only one true theocracy and that was the nation of Israel until the Israelites demanded a human king (Saul). And that was the end of theocracy and the end of Israel. Israel split into two, the Northern Kingdom went into Assyrian captivity, and the Southern Kingdom went into Babylonian captivity.

There is no doubt that Europe was dominated by Christianity and even that Christianity was the state religion in both the Roman and the Byzantine empires. But that did not automatically mean that these were "theocracies", or that all the citizens were born again believers (within the true Church), or that all the shenanigans of the popes and the Byzantine emperors were approved by God. Indeed quite the reverse, since all of this was about power, wealth, and control by a few while the masses were no better than serfs and slaves. As a result there was much wickedness and evil perpetrated by the "Christian" kings, emperors, and popes. And that is DEFINITELY NOT a theocracy.

However, when Christ establishes the Kingdom of God on earth (in the future), and there is universal righteousness and peace, then there will be a true theocracy on earth. In the meantime -- as Satan had already told Christ -- all the kingdoms of the world are under his control. And we see that right now as we observe international politics. All world leaders are working to enslave their citizens under the rule of Satan. The goal is to STEAL, KILL, AND DESTROY. And that is Satan's agenda.
 

Blue Dragonfly's

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God promised Abraham a nation consisting of his descendants, ie Israel, as well as a family of nations who share Abraham's faith. Israel became a theocracy and a model for future Christian nations to base their societies on God's laws, as well.

Some people argue that the NT does not describe a Christian Theocracy, and instead focuses only on individual salvation. But that isn't quite true. We do come to Christ as individuals, but we are called into society, the Church.

And Abraham's nation, Israel, did become a model for the nations that God also promised to Abraham. Paul argued that this was fulfilled in the Church.

However, in the time of the writing of the NT, the Church had only begun as a minority within Israel, and had only started an outreach to the nations. Christianity was just a minority religion until Rome adopted Christianity under Theodosius.

So Christian nations did eventually evolve after the pattern of Israel's theocracy, and we have called them "Christian nations" typically. Today, the term "theocracy" is avoided out of concern to disassociate with the Islamic theocracy and other religious theocracies. But Christian nations, no matter the form of government, is a theocracy when the country is a self-proclaimed Christian country, or Christian state.

The failure of Israel as a theocracy did not mean the failure of their model for all nations. On the contrary, they showed that a theocracy only works when its principles are being responsibly followed.

The theocracy of Israel succeeded even before Christ because it was not based on perfection, but on the idea of redemption. Now that redemption is complete in Christ, it is affirmed that theocracy is God's model for the nations.

We are to responsibly follow Christian principles as a Christian society, without necessitating perfection. Christ has forgiven our sins, and this forgiveness applies when we regularly practice repentance.

Those who want to return to pagan forms of government are Antichristian, and Christians should not give up their belief in the Christian government, even if they are outnumbered. It is our testimony that is critical, and not the success of our society.
Jesus reiterated the 9 commands of God. The Sabbath , what would make for 10 commands, was made by God for us. A gift. It's always applicable.:)

So there are God's laws for a Christian Theocracy.
 

Davy

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When we accept Jesus we become part of a new nation, that Holy Nation mention in scripture, the one that has no boundaries, a nation whose king is King Jesus.

1 Peter 2:9
But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.

Yes, but even Peter's reference is to an 'eventual'... physical reality nation, the new Jerusalem that will be manifested upon this earth in Christ's future Kingdom that will be established here on earth in the world to come.
 

Davy

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This is completely false. The very word "theocracy" means that God is the King who rules over that nation. There was only one true theocracy and that was the nation of Israel until the Israelites demanded a human king (Saul). And that was the end of theocracy and the end of Israel. Israel split into two, the Northern Kingdom went into Assyrian captivity, and the Southern Kingdom went into Babylonian captivity.

There is no doubt that Europe was dominated by Christianity and even that Christianity was the state religion in both the Roman and the Byzantine empires. But that did not automatically mean that these were "theocracies", or that all the citizens were born again believers (within the true Church), or that all the shenanigans of the popes and the Byzantine emperors were approved by God. Indeed quite the reverse, since all of this was about power, wealth, and control by a few while the masses were no better than serfs and slaves. As a result there was much wickedness and evil perpetrated by the "Christian" kings, emperors, and popes. And that is DEFINITELY NOT a theocracy.

However, when Christ establishes the Kingdom of God on earth (in the future), and there is universal righteousness and peace, then there will be a true theocracy on earth. In the meantime -- as Satan had already told Christ -- all the kingdoms of the world are under his control. And we see that right now as we observe international politics. All world leaders are working to enslave their citizens under the rule of Satan. The goal is to STEAL, KILL, AND DESTROY. And that is Satan's agenda.

The divine rule of kings and queens over Christian nations STILL exists to this day. (i.e., Britain, Canada, Australia, Belgium, Bahamas, Denmark, Luxembourg, Monaco, Netherlands, Norway, New Zealand, Spain, Sweden, etc.)

Prior to WWII, there were even more European kings and queens over Christian nations in eastern Europe until politicians agreed to give them over to Communist Soviet Russia. The early 7 Churches in Asia were established in what is now known as western Turkey, which the Muslims eventually took over that land along with Constantinople. The Muslims tried to conquer the Christian nations in western Europe also around 600 A.D., but failed. Then came the Liberalism of the so-called enlightenment with the French Revolution, and beheaded the king and queen of France. Then after that the Bolshevik revolution with the murder of the Russian royal monarchs and their family in 1917. And since then, the Communists (and their allies) have been trying to destroy the remaining western monarchs ordained by God.

Those not aware of this, and the prophecies about the "multitude of nations" given to the seed of Ephraim, are way behind in understanding Biblical fulfillment of many prophecies about God's people in the Christian west.

And by the way, one of the royal titles of the king or queen of Britain is 'Defender of The Faith'. And that means the Christian Faith.
 

Davy

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In 2 Samuel 7, God promised David that there would be one of David's seed upon his throne unto all... generations. David wondered at this, and asked if this were the way of man.

Since David's throne was ended in Jerusalem in the time of Zedekiah, king of Judah, in the time of Jeremiah the prophet, when Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon came upon Jerusalem and destroyed it, and then killed all of Zedekiah's male heirs, and Zedekiah died in Babylon, David's throne has never been re-established there in Jerusalem to this day.

Because of that, most preachers today deem that our Heavenly Father was pointing to Lord Jesus sitting upon David's throne in Heaven, which in reality is not Biblical, because we are shown Jesus is now sitting on the 'right hand of The Father's throne' in Heaven, not David's throne which is an 'earthly throne'.

Also, the Genesis 49:10 prophecy that Jacob gave his son Judah for the 'last days', reveals Judah is to keep that royal rule all the way up to the day when Jesus returns ("Shiloh" being a symbol there for Jesus' future return). This further establishes that God's promise to David that there would never fail a man to sit upon David's throne is STILL in effect somewhere upon this earth, even today.

Of course God's enemies do not like to hear about this. Especially since Satan's host consider themselves the true rulers of this present world. Nevertheless, this is Bible prophecy, and God has said it, and what He says He will do, will come to pass. And it has.

When Jeremiah escaped captivity to Babylon under Nebuchadnezzar, the way it happened per the Book of Jeremiah is he was taken captive by bandits into Egypt. God had told the Israelites not to try and escape to Egypt, but to go captive to Babylon and He promised to take care of them. But Jeremiah, being kinsman redeemer to the royal family, was guardian of the "king's daughters", and were taken captive to Tahpanhes, Egypt per Jeremiah 43.

In the Book of Jeremiah, God said He ordained Jeremiah a prophet over the 'nations', "to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down, to build, and to plant." (Jeremiah 1:10).

The rooting out, destroying, and throwing down was about Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon, destroying Jerusalem and taking the "house of Judah" captive to Babylon for seventy years.

But what about that part God said that Jeremiah was chosen also to do, "to build, and to plant"? Just where... did God accomplish that through Jeremiah? It certainly was not... in the holy land, because Jeremiah, the king's daughters with him, and his scribe Baruch, were all taken captive into Egypt, and they all then drop out of Bible history. But can we 'depend' upon God accomplishing what He said through Jeremiah, about that "to build, and to plant"? Yes. It's simply a matter of studying and understanding what God had promised about the nations, like Ephraim's seed who was to become "a multitude of nations" per the Genesis 48 blessing by Jacob (Israel).

That "multitude of nations" prophecy to Ephraim's seed directly involves the scattered ten tribes of Israel. Biblically, and historically (per the Jewish historian Josephus), the ten northern tribes of Israel (minus Judah, Benjamin, and Levi), were removed to Assyria and the lands of the Medes by the kings of Assyria, about 120 years prior... to Judah's captivity to Babylon under Nebuchadnezzar. In those lands the ten tribes remained and never returned to the holy lands. They lost their heritage as part of Israel, like God had prophesied through His prophet Hosea. And they were further scattered out of Assyria, to the West, into Asia Minor and Europe. In the Assyrian tablets, documentation by the ancient Assyrians in their royal correspondence refer to the ten tribes of Israel using certain names, like Khumri, derived from king Omri one of the kings of Israel (northern kingdom of ten tribes after the split of 1 Kings 11). The names Cimmerians and Scythians became labels for the ten tribes in their scattering around the Black Sea into Europe. One of the passages through the Caucasus mountains above the Black Sea was known as the Dariel pass.

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Per prophecy in Genesis 48 to Ephraim, his seed was to become "a multitude of nations", and his brother Manasseh also was to become "great". That was originally a prophecy God gave to Jacob (Israel) back in Genesis 35 that Jacob's seed was to become "a nation, and a company of nations". And Jacob in Genesis 48 said to let his name (Israel) be named upon the two lads (Ephraim and Manasseh).

We know that the nation of Israel through history has always been but 'one' nation, not a multitude of nations. So when and where was this "multitude of nations" prophecy fulfilled, or has it been fulfilled yet?

What is even more interesting, is Ephraim's relationship with the ten northern tribes of Israel after God split the old kingdom of Israel into two separate kingdoms per 1 Kings 11. Jeroboam, one born of the tribe of Ephraim, was selected by Solomon as governor over the northern ten tribes when Solomon was king. They then later had a falling out, and Jeroboam fled to Egypt fearing his life. Then because of Solomon rebelling against God by allowing his many wives to bring idol worship in among Israel, God rent the kingdom from Solomon, but promised to do it in his son's day, Rehoboam, Solomon's son.

At that time, when God rent the kingdom from Solomon and his son Rehoboam; Jeroboam (of Ephraim) returned, and God ordained Jeroboam as "king of Israel" (meaning the northern kingdom, which was called Israel because of the majority of the tribes lived in the northern lands. This did not include the Jews that made up the southern "kingdom of Judah" at Jerusalem-Judea). This history is written in 1 Kings 11.

Jeroboam was not of the tribe of Judah, which only one born of Judah of the house of David was to be king over Israel per God's ordaining. So what gives with that, since God is Who made Jeroboam king over Israel after the split?

Do you recall the story about Joseph and his eleven brethren, and how Jacob favored Joseph more than his brothers, and this made his brothers jealous? So they took Joseph, put him in a pit to decide what to do with him. Then Medianite merchants found Joseph and sold him as a slave into Egypt. Joseph's brothers then told their father that Joseph was dead. But God exalted Joseph in Egypt to second in charge of all Egypt. And during a famine, Joseph's brethren came to Egypt to buy grain, and Joseph disguised himself, so his brethren would not realize who he was. But in final, Joseph revealed himself to his brethren, and they were all joined together as a family again, but in Egypt, and prospered into a great many people there. Likewise with Ephraim and Manasseh, they represent an ordeal like what Joseph went through, being separated from their brethren of the "house of Judah" (Jews) which remained in the holy land at the time of the ten tribes being removed by the kings of Assyria (2 Kings 17).

Thus the "house of Israel" (ten northern tribes) and the "house of Judah" (Jews at Jerusalem-Judea), were separated by God splitting up old Israel into two separate kingdoms, and then scattered the majority of both houses, leaving only a small remnant of Jews (Judah, Benjamin, and Levi) at Jerusalem. This is why today only the Jews are know as the people of Israel. The greater majority of Israelites which were scattered, have been lost; they are lost to the Jews and to the world (Yet God said He would keep a remnant that would know the truth). These scattered Israelites lost knowledge of their heritage as children of Israel. They took on Gentile habits and customs, and became as Gentiles living among Gentiles. But God has not forgotten them, and has promised to gather both houses back together (Ezekiel 37 about the two sticks being put back together in the future).

Thusly, today's split of the two 'houses' in God's Word is similar to Joseph's separation in Egypt, with his brethren not recognizing who Joseph was in Egypt. This suggests why God made Jeroboam, of the tribe of Ephraim, king over the northern kingdom of ten tribes known as the "house of Israel". It is also a pointer to why Lord Jesus said He was not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel (ten tribes), pointing to upon whom The Gospel would be accepted as a people outside of Jerusalem and the Jews who rejected Him.

One of the tribe of Ephraim becoming king of Israel (northern kingdom of ten tribes) is likewise similar to Joseph's plight. Ephraim and Manasseh were Joseph's sons, born to him in Egypt, so there is another link to prophecy. God's Birthright blessings fell upon Joseph, and then were transferred to Ephraim and Manasseh per 1 Chronicles 5. Nowhere else are we shown another transfer of God's Birthright after that, per His Word. This means even today, God's Birthright is still... to be upon Ephraim and his brother Manasseh.
 
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Davy

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Cont...

What exactly is God's Birthright blessing about. You can trace those Blessings from God first given through Abraham. And then to his son Isaac. And then to his son Jacob. And then to his son Joseph. And then to Joseph's two sons Ephraim and Manasseh, where it stopped. The blessings involve ruling the gates of one's enemies (i.e., great military power); plenty of corn and wine (best land resources on earth, and productions); a seed as many as the stars of the sky, and sands of the sea (the Jewish historian Josephus had even said in his day, in 100 A.D., the ten tribes were still scattered beyond Euphrates, and were a great number of people, too many to be counted.) These Blessings are not seen in the nation state of Israel, but with the Christian nations. The western Christian nations are the most productive producers of food and goods and high standards of living, and have the strongest militaries in history, and also control the gates of their enemies having built both the Panama and Suez canals. These are the "multitude of nations" of Ephraim, and I'll let you guess just where the nation that would also become "great" of Ephraim's brother Manasseh wound up.

It is for this reason why Satan's host attack the western Christian nations, and want to destroy us. They haven't been able to do it, but have tried many times and in many ways (through financial depressions, wars, attempted pestilences and famines, etc.) Yet we are still here, a people under GOD and His Son Jesus Christ! And so are the Christian Monarchs still here today also!
 
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Enoch111

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The divine rule of kings and queens over Christian nations STILL exists to this day. (i.e., Britain, Canada, Australia, Belgium, Bahamas, Denmark, Luxembourg, Monaco, Netherlands, Norway, New Zealand, Spain, Sweden, etc.)
You could have also included the Byzantine emperors. But that is definitely not a theocracy. It is an aristocracy through the accident of birth. And how did that work out? Constant bloodshed and slavery.

In a theocracy there are no human kings -- as it was from the time of Moses to the anointing of Saul. And how did that work out? Constant rebellion against God. But when Christ establishes a true theocracy, He will rule with a rod of iron. And there will be universal righteousness and peace under the Prince of Peace.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Yes, but even Peter's reference is to an 'eventual'... physical reality nation, the new Jerusalem that will be manifested upon this earth in Christ's future Kingdom that will be established here on earth in the world to come.
No, it isn't. He said "YOU ARE...a holy nation", not "YOU WILL BE...a holy nation".
 
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Davy

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You could have also included the Byzantine emperors. But that is definitely not a theocracy.
....

The 'idea' of the word theocracy began with the literal 'rule of God' (this per the Oxford Reference). How secularists later began applying the term to a religious head is a later idea.

The only TRUE government is a monarchy, this is clearly shown us in God's Word, as He is our True KING. And since Lord Jesus Christ, our KING died on the cross, that perfect Monarchy is yet to come upon this earth when He will take David's throne here on earth. Until then, God has ordained the divine right of rule for today's monarchs. It's the liberal Leftists and Communists that hate this idea of royal rule.

Gen 49:10
10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
KJV
 

Davy

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The only unbroken line of the Throne of David is the Kings and Queens of England. 2 Samuel 7:16

You mean Great Britain, because the heritage began with the kings of ancient Ireland, then Scotland, and then England. And the royal monarchs in other nations of Europe are all kin to that same family. Czar Nicolas II was descended from Queen Victoria, and his wife Alexandria was descended from the Queen of Danmark.
 

Randy Kluth

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Your whole argument is based on Catholic and Protestants' revisionist versions of history, which is why it has very little merit.

So your argument goes something like this. You don't think Catholic and Protestant versions of history matter, so your view has very little merit?

The "Christianity" that Rome legalized is a satanic counterfeit of the one practiced by the true Church of God.

The Church that Peter and Paul founded in the Roman Empire was "satanic?"

Your argument assumes that modern nations should just adopt it no matter how imperfect it is, but the obvious problem is that it overlooks the amount of persecution and bloodshed that Catholic Rome inflicted on everyone who rejected the religion.

My argument wasn't that theocracies are always acceptable to God. Please note how God dealt with the Israeli theocracy. They compromised, they apostasized, and God took away their theocracy until the rebellion had been burned out of them.

There are former theocracies today that have lost the power of God, and are a mere shell of what they once were. The fact they are empty now does not mean they were never a legitimate theocracy, or Christian society, whose government was based on the Law of God, or the example of Christ.

We would be no better off under the kind of "Christian" theocracy that you're advocating for than we would Islamic theocracy because it is just as oppressive. It hasn't worked in any of the Catholic or Protestant theocracies of the past 1700 years, and it's not going to work now.

It has never worked? Christian governments have never worked? What exactly constitutes "works successfully" to you?

The theocracy God established through ancient Israel worked because they operated on the basis of laws that were designed for the well being of everybody in the nation, alongside the fact that the leaders had to ultimately answer to God. That has never been the case in any Catholic or Protestant theocracy in history because those religions were based on rejecting God's laws and His rule.

That is false--completely false. Christian governments were based on the laws of God as understood in the example of God's Son, Jesus. The laws of the State were based on the Bible. They obviously would reject the Law of Moses, since it is an outmoded system that had been designed only for Israel while they were waiting for Christ's ultimate sacrifice. But now that Christ has come, nations can base their government on what the Law of Moses pointed to, which is much better.
 

Randy Kluth

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Jesus reiterated the 9 commands of God. The Sabbath , what would make for 10 commands, was made by God for us. A gift. It's always applicable.:)

So there are God's laws for a Christian Theocracy.

The 10 Commandments were given to Israel, including the Sabbath Law. It was preliminary to Christ's work on the cross. Now that our sins are forgiven, laws like the Sabbath need not be kept. Jesus did all the work for us. We need not try to cleanse ourselves from sin by works any longer.
 

Randy Kluth

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That "multitude of nations" prophecy to Ephraim's seed directly involves the scattered ten tribes of Israel.

Gen 48.19 is identified by commentary Barnes as the "fulness of the nations," and by Gill as a "multitude of families." In either case, the meaning was that Ephraim would be a larger family than his brother Manasseh and would ultimately come to represent all of northern Israel. "Multitude of nations" correspond to "multitude of families," according to Gill.

I'm not a scholar like these commentators, but it strikes me as true to reality. As you said, the northern tribes perished in exile. I don't believe they will be recovered. Their tribes came to be enmeshed in the S. Kingdom of Judah among those who wished to remain true to the Law of God. The Law of Moses specified that true worship should be done in Jerusalem 3x a year, Passover, Pentecost, and Tabernacles. All sacrifices and offerings were to be made their through the official priests, and not through counterfeit priests presiding over idol worship.