RAPTURE QUESTION + answer

popeye · Nov 30, 2011

There is a year that can be calculated to determine the "season" of Christ's return. It is simply 2000 years after the date of the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. If this were not true, then the words of Christ are not true. Ad-libing, Christ said that if your enemy commands you to carry a load for 1 mile, carry it for him 2 miles instead. In likewise fashion, as Christ's MK is 1000 years in duration, then God and Christ MUST suffer carrying Satan's load as ruler of this world for twice as long as Christ, or 2000 years since Christ was present on earth. I could also cite a few more calculations from scripture that would verify this date.

That date is none other than 2032 AD when Daniel's 70th week and the start of the end time events kick-off, culminating 3.5 years later, after a Great worldwide Christian Tribulation, when the AOD is committed, to The Rapture ( the DAY and HOUR not known ). The Rapture is imminent ONLY after the AOD is committed.....the day & hour not known....

BibleScribe · Nov 30, 2011

popeye said:
... the "season" of Christ's return. It is simply 2000 years after the date of the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. If this were not true, then the words of Christ are not true. ...

Hey Popeye,

I guess "the words of Christ are not true". Because this is NOT the date which Bible Prophecy ( with NO mathematical gymnastics required) stipulates. Scripture provides a different date.

So as you suggest, either Jesus is wrong, or Scripture is wrong. But the fact is, I would argue that it's your expectations which are wrong, and Scripture is correct. As such, I would strongly recommend that you revise your expectations to match Scripture.

BibleScribe

popeye · Nov 30, 2011

Explain your date discovery in one paragraph or less....and I may listen.... I just may not hear....

veteran · Nov 30, 2011

Yes Biblescribe, EXPLAIN how you derive such a date, since the burden of proof is upon you because of the statements you've made.

BibleScribe · Nov 30, 2011

veteran said:
Yes Biblescribe, EXPLAIN how you derive such a date, since the burden of proof is upon you because of the statements you've made.

Hi Popeye & Veteran,

I think I've explained the concept multiple time, but again provide it for your reference:

1. The Psalms is the 19th Book of the Bible.

2. The chapters appear to be prophetic for the 1900s*.

As such, one might consider that Book 19, Chapter 44, (i.e., 19, 44 = 1944), depicts the holocaust. Or possibly that Book 19, Chapter 48 depicts the international recognition of the nation of Israel. And so the more one understand Israeli history, the more the Chapters appear to align with the historical events of those respective years.

So far so good?

* As depicted in the book "Hidden Prophecies in the Psalms", by J.R. Church.

BibleScribe

veteran · Nov 30, 2011

That's still a basis from numerology though. I've heard of some who use Gematria from the Hebrew apply that kind of prophetic dating of events. Though I agree the Massorah provided some inscriptions for ending of a verse, later translations got away from that.

BibleScribe · Nov 30, 2011

Hi Veteran,

If evaluating the Psalms to see if this 19th Book of the Bible and associated Chapters are prophetic for the 1900's, Chapter for year, is "numerology", then you and I have a different understanding of that word. But let me further suggest that not only does J.R. Church apparently present and defend this premise, but Daniel instructs this interpretative text for the seventy shibiym/shabuwa.

But then again, I've offered to present and defend these concepts to you before, and you've chosen to blindly follow the failed "classical" interpretation.

BibleScribe

rockytopva · Nov 30, 2011

Psalms is NOT the 19th book of the bible. There are books of the bible that have been lost in history...

Wherefore it is said in the book of the wars of the LORD - Numbers 21:14
Is not this written in the book of Jasher? - Joshua 10:13
are they not written in the book of the chronicles of the kings of Israel? - 1 Kings 15:31
(Note the Chronicles of the kings of Judah have been saved)
Also he bade them teach the children of Judah the use of the bow: behold, it is written in the book of Jasher - 2 Samuel 1:18
And the rest of the acts of Solomon, and all that he did, and his wisdom, are they not written in the book of the acts of Solomon - 1 Kings 11:14
Now the rest of the acts of Rehoboam, and all that he did, are they not written in the book of the chronicles of the kings of Judah? - 1 Kings 11:49
***Note - That book is what we call I and II Chronicles.
Now the acts of David the king, first and last, behold, they are written in the book of Samuel the seer, and in the book of Nathan the prophet, and in the book of Gad the seer, - 1 Chronicles 29:29\
Now the acts of Rehoboam, first and last, are they not written in the book of Shemaiah the prophet, and of Iddo the seer concerning genealogies? - 2 Chronicles 12:15
Now the rest of the acts of Jehoshaphat, first and last, behold, they are written in the book of Jehu the son of Hanani, who is mentioned in the book of the kings of Israel. - 2 Chronicles 20:34
And all the acts of his power and of his might, and the declaration of the greatness of Mordecai, whereunto the king advanced him, are they not written in the book of the chronicles of the kings of Media and Persia? - Ester 10:2
Then took Jeremiah another roll, and gave it to Baruch the scribe, the son of Neriah; who wrote therein from the mouth of Jeremiah all the words of the book which Jehoiakim king of Judah had burned in the fire: and there were added besides unto them many like words. - Jeremiah 36:32

So the numbers game goes out the window and the rapture of the church unknown to man.

BibleScribe · Nov 30, 2011

rockytopva said:
Psalms is NOT the 19th book of the bible. There are books of the bible that have been lost in history...
...

Hi Rockytopva,

You apparently presume that the sequence and selection of the Books of Scripture catches GOD unaware, and that HE has no idea that HIS texts have been organized and compiled such that the modern Bible has the Psalms in the 19th position.

However, I presume that GOD brings ALL things to perfection, including the fact that not only is the Psalms the 19th Book of the Bible, but also that the Chapters are equally in their proper sequence. As such, these appear to prophetically match the events of the 1900s for the Jewish nation.

And with this information, we can discern the year of the LORD's return.

BibleScribe

PS As suggested to "Veteran", the book of Daniel references this text for the interpretation of the seventy shibiym/shabuwa.

veteran · Nov 30, 2011

That's depending upon numerology, regardless of how one looks at it. God's Word reveals Christ's coming by the times and seasons which He and His Apostles gave us to be watching. He did not conceal the day and hour using numerology meant for some special group of mystics practicing mysticism.

BibleScribe · Nov 30, 2011

Yeah, you're right. It's real ~mystical~ to read the 19th Book of the Bible Chapter in context with the events of the 1900's for the nation of Israel. And when Daniel used this same resource to resolve the seventy shibiym/shabuwa, he too was ~mystical~.

Yep, we don't cotton to thinking 'round here. :wacko:

To All,

The premise is simple. And YOU get to judge whether it the Chapters of the Psalms appear to correlate to the events of the 1900's for the nation of Israel. So if Book 19, Chapter 48 doesn't depict the international recognition of that nation, then the discussion is satiated. However, if you don't judge by the evidence, and simply declare your bias, then you're an unjust judge. And there are plenty of unjust judges as blinded by doctrines of men.

BibleScribe

popeye · Dec 1, 2011

I've read the Psalms, and frankly, fail to see where they align with historical accounts, albeit, everything written there is subject to interpretation....and in some cases....really ambiguous and "reaching" type interpretations.

Frankly, when it comes to numerology, I'd prefer to put my trust in God's numerology, that is, His holy numbers 7, 12 & 24. And THAT is what I use to get my date.

If any of you believe that these numbers are not used by God repeatedly, especially in prophecy, then I suggest you need to seriously consider them, because, when applied to prophecy, they are as homogeneous as they come. Why do you think God recorded the "times" quote ( a time, times and 1/2 a time )?

Retrobyter · Dec 1, 2011

Shalom BibleScribe.

BibleScribe said:
Hi Rockytopva,

You apparently presume that the sequence and selection of the Books of Scripture catches GOD unaware, and that HE has no idea that HIS texts have been organized and compiled such that the modern Bible has the Psalms in the 19th position.

However, I presume that GOD brings ALL things to perfection, including the fact that not only is the Psalms the 19th Book of the Bible, but also that the Chapters are equally in their proper sequence. As such, these appear to prophetically match the events of the 1900s for the Jewish nation.

And with this information, we can discern the year of the LORD's return.

BibleScribe

PS As suggested to "Veteran", the book of Daniel references this text for the interpretation of the seventy shibiym/shabuwa.

Actually, the book of Psalms is the 27th book of the Bible, although it might be considered to be the 25th book or the 14th book, depending on whether one sees the "Minor Prophets" as one book, the two books of Sh'mu'el as one book, and the two books of the Kings as one book.

In the Hebrew order of the TANAKH (Torah, Navi'iym, Ketuviym or Law, Prophets, Writings), you will find the following:

TORAH
1 B'resheet = Genesis
2 Sh'mot = Exodus
3 Vayikra = Leviticus
4 B'midbar = Numbers
5 D'variym = Deuteronomy

NAVI'IYM
6 Y'hoshua = Joshua
7 Shoftim = Judges
8 Sh'mu'el Alef = 1 Samuel
9 Sh'mu'el Bet = 2 Samuel
10 M'lakhiym Alef = 1 Kings
11 M'lakhiym Bet = 2 Kings
12 Yesha`yahu = Isaiah
13 Yirmeyahu = Jeremiah
14 Yechezk'el = Ezekiel
15 Hoshea = Hosea
16 Yo'el = Joel
17 `Amos = Amos
18 `Ovadyahu = Obadiah
19 Yonah = Jonah
20 Mikhah = Micah
21 Nachum = Nahum
22 Havakuk = Habakkuk
23 Tz'fanyahu = Zephaniah
24 Hagai = Haggai
25 Z'kharyahu = Zechariah
26 Mal'akhiy = Malachi

KETUVIYM
27 Tehilliym = Psalms
...

This is the order that Yeshua` would have used and DID use! (Luke 24:44)

Don't base your theory on the order of books! That's ridiculous! Instead, look to what's written INSIDE those books!

BibleScribe · Dec 1, 2011

Retrobyter said:
Shalom BibleScribe.

Actually, the book of Psalms is the 27th book of the Bible, although it might be considered to be the 25th book or the 14th book, depending on whether one sees the "Minor Prophets" as one book, the two books of Sh'mu'el as one book, and the two books of the Kings as one book.

...

Once again, your math differs from the table of contents of a modern Bible. Your lack of history also denies the Prophetic Psalms.

BibleScribe

popeye said:
I've read the Psalms, and frankly, fail to see where they align with historical accounts, ...

Popeye,

I think you're disingenuous:

Psalms 48

[sup]1[/sup] Great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised
In the city of our God,
In His holy mountain.
[sup]2[/sup] Beautiful in elevation,
The joy of the whole earth,
Is Mount Zion on the sides of the north,
The city of the great King.
[sup]3[/sup] God is in her palaces;
He is known as her refuge.

[sup]4[/sup] For behold, the kings assembled,
They passed by together.
[sup]5[/sup] They saw it, and so they marveled;
They were troubled, they hastened away.
[sup]6[/sup] Fear took hold of them there,
And pain, as of a woman in birth pangs,
[sup]7[/sup] As when You break the ships of Tarshish
With an east wind.

[sup]8[/sup] As we have heard,
So we have seen
In the city of the LORD of hosts,
In the city of our God:
God will establish it forever. Selah

[sup]9[/sup] We have thought, O God, on Your lovingkindness,
In the midst of Your temple.
[sup]10[/sup] According to Your name, O God,
So is Your praise to the ends of the earth;
Your right hand is full of righteousness.
[sup]11[/sup] Let Mount Zion rejoice,
Let the daughters of Judah be glad,
Because of Your judgments.

[sup]12[/sup] Walk about Zion,
And go all around her.
Count her towers;
[sup]13[/sup] Mark well her bulwarks;
Consider her palaces;
That you may tell it to the generation following.
[sup]14[/sup] For this is God,
Our God forever and ever;
He will be our guide
Even to death.

BibleScribe

popeye · Dec 1, 2011

Psalm 48 is talking about Holy City, new Jerusalem, the city that descends to earth, and the mountain of God, the holy mountain, Mt Zion, AFTER IT HAS DESCENDED TO EARTH.. This Psalm is speaking of nothing else, period. It's corresponding passage is in Rev 21. Plain and simple. Nothing here to pass-off as the regathering of Jews and the re-establishment of the nation of Israel in '48.

Sorry, 'Scribe.....

BibleScribe · Dec 1, 2011

Popeye,

I believe you are intentionally misrepresenting the text. Verse 13 says: "That you may tell it to the generation following."

So are you saying that there are male and female, husbands, wives and new born children in HEAVEN? And if so, are you now Mormon? LOLOL

BibleScribe

rockytopva · Dec 1, 2011

BibleScribe... You are making the same mistake as Herold Camping in your numbers game.

veteran · Dec 1, 2011

popeye said:
I've read the Psalms, and frankly, fail to see where they align with historical accounts, albeit, everything written there is subject to interpretation....and in some cases....really ambiguous and "reaching" type interpretations.

Frankly, when it comes to numerology, I'd prefer to put my trust in God's numerology, that is, His holy numbers 7, 12 & 24. And THAT is what I use to get my date.

If any of you believe that these numbers are not used by God repeatedly, especially in prophecy, then I suggest you need to seriously consider them, because, when applied to prophecy, they are as homogeneous as they come. Why do you think God recorded the "times" quote ( a time, times and 1/2 a time )?

Yes, that kind of number usage you speak of IS of God's Word, and not numerology like Hebrew Gematria from Cabbalistic mysticism.

FIVE is a Biblical number for Christ's Grace.

FORTY is a Biblical number for probation, testing, a proving.

The 19th century Bible scholar E.W. Bullinger has an Appendix in The Companion Bible on Biblical numbers as those kind of symbols.

us2are1 · Dec 2, 2011

The question is wrong and the answer is wrong.

First off there is no rapture in scripture.

The return of the Lord will happen 1335 days after the weather disappears from the planet.

At the time the Lord returns is when the resurrection of the dead will happen.

.

biggandyy · Dec 2, 2011

So now Global Warming is going to bring about the Apocalypse?

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