Are Jehovah's witnesses real Christians?

.
Continued From No.192

DavidB said:

Please show me in the Bible why it is necessary go believe not just that Jesus was
resurrected, but that he was raised physically?

Click to expand...

None of the Old Testament sacrifices were restored to life. Their bodies all
remained deceased, and some of them were even used for food. So it's
logical to expect that Jesus' body would remain deceased.

Well; one difficulty in that respect is that the Watchtower Society teaches
human existence is entirely physical. So then, were Jesus' body to remain
deceased, the man himself would be no more.

An additional difficulty is consistency. Every resurrection recorded in the
Bible-- both the New Testament and the Old --restored people's dead body
to life: Jonah's too, which is especially important because Jesus related his
own experiences to Jonah's.

But there is a matter of far more consequence to consider.

• Rom 4:25 . . He was delivered up for the sake of our trespasses, and was
raised up for the sake of declaring us righteous.

The first half of that verse speaks of Isa 53:6

"We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way;
and The Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all."

However, though Jesus' crucifixion satisfies retribution for people's sins, the
people remain guilty; similar to when speeders pay a fine for going too fast.
Their payment satisfies retribution for speeding, but the broken law stays on
the books. In other words: a paid fine makes no one innocent.

• 1Cor 15:17 . . If Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you
are still in your sins.

Were Jesus' body to remain dead, people's sins would remain on the books
as a criminal record with which they would be confronted later on down the
line at Rev 20:11-15. In other words: forgiveness obtained via the death of
a sacrifice is merely a reprieve, viz: a dead sacrifice allows God to forgive
but doesn't allow Him to exonerate. (Ex 34:6-7)

The second half of Rom 4:25 speaks of justification: translated from the
Greek word dikaiosis (dik-ah'-yo-sis) which means acquittal; defined as an
adjudication of innocence.

In other words; it's by means of Christ's physical resurrection that people
can get themselves cleared of all wrongs so that on the books it can be as
though they've never been anything but 100% innocent.

* Were I the Devil, the one component of Christianity that I would make my
mission in life to invalidate is Christ's physical resurrection because by
means of its acceptance sinners have the opportunity to obtain an acquittal.
Failure to believe his dead body was restored to life will result in their loss of
the one God-given opportunity to wipe the books; and thus they'll remain on
a sure-fire path to the wrong side of things.
_

Robert Gwin said:

Aah, I get your point BH, truth is Jesus died on a Stauros, and it is defined as an upright pole. We believe it was a stake and that his hands were together upright. No one knows how he was hung, but the method of death is suffocation and having the arms outward is not an efficient way to accomplish this. We believe his hands were together as were his feet. The Bible has the word nails, but interestingly if you look up the original word in the Strongs it says this:
h|loß Helos (hay'-los); Noun Masculine, Strong #: 2247

1. a nail

KJV Word Usage and Count
nail 2

Which is really weird as they say nails as well in their version. Who knows how many nails were used, but I believe you are trying to promote the cross as being sacred to our worship. Is not this is the real issue you are trying to promote BH?

Click to expand...

The truth of the cross in the Bible is not about worshiping the cross. I don’t know of any Protestant who bows down before the cross (Unless they are Catholic sympathizers and or they are buddying up with them). The idea is ignoring a truth in the Bible. All truth revealed by God to us by His Word matters. You can play the original languages game to avoid the truth all you like, but your ENGLISH translation should be perfect and without error if you guys really are for the truth. But your New World Translation says NAILS in his hand in John 20:25. Yet a picture at JW.org shows only ONE NAIL in his hands. So they are lying to you. This is flat out a lie to say one thing and contradict it by saying something else. While there are tons of things that should tell a person to run away from the JW religion, this one thing should be sufficient to make my argument even. Your organization is lying to you on this point. You are just biased to your group because you too deeply involved in it (Whereby you cannot see the forest from the trees). You will lose your JW friends if you accept the Bible for what it really says and if you will admit the truth that there are flaws or major errors in the JW religion.

Robert Gwin said:

I teach Jehovah is God, and Jesus is His firstborn son, If you would like to rebutt that I am willing to discuss it sir.

Click to expand...

Yes, the word Jehovah is in the Bible and it does refer to GOD. But JW’s place an unnecessary emphasis upon this word when God has other names, as well. It was not until the JW religion was formed in the late 1800’s whereby they started to place an added emphasis on this particular name of GOD. Nowhere does the Bible teach that this is the only special name of God we should focus upon. English is not even a chosen language by GOD. So to say that the English rendering Jehovah is somehow the only special name for God means one is simply running in fantasy candy land. Show in the Bible where it says that the English name Jehovah was to be the future name GOD wanted us to use. While I do agree Jehovah is a correct rendering in the KJB (for an English translation), it does not mean that is how that word actually sounds or how it is pronounced in the original Hebrew (Old Testament) or in Greek (New Testament). The Bible does recognize the differences between one language and another. We see this in Revelation 16:16 (with the Greek Scriptures recognizing the original Hebrew word).

As for Jesus being called things like the firstborn son of all creation: Well, while this truth is true in Scripture, you cannot ignore those verses on His deity just because your cult does not like the idea about how Jesus is both GOD and man (Note: I have provided plenty of Scripture to show the truth of the Trinity and how Jesus is GOD here). Think. Your own religion has created their own bible to fit their theology. That’s a red flag right there. You guys used to use the KJB, and that was based on the TR manuscripts, which is totally different than the manuscripts you are using now (the Westcott and Hort text). But seeing you guys are Arian, you would naturally switch to those texts that fit that viewpoint. So your religion is not being consistent and or fair or unbiased. They switched to fit their theology. Of course you are blinded to this fact. Your JW religion has trained your mind that everyone else is lying and they are the only ones who are telling you the truth. But again… I already proved to you that they are lying to you with John 20:25 and their JW photo of him showing only one nail in his hands while John 20:25 in your own translation says NAILS in his hand. Again, your JW organization is lying to you by this. You have to be willing to face this fact. If not, you are only deceiving yourself.

Robert Gwin said:

The simple truth is sir, that the Bible does not exist.

Click to expand...

Sure it does. I have the Bible in my house right now.
It has not disappeared.

I mean, are you saying that even your Bible does not exist?
Then why do you guys bother to even read and or study from it if it does not exist?
That makes no sene.

You said:

The KJV of the Bible alters many verses to support the trinity doctrine.

Click to expand...

You do realize that JW’s used the KJB before your own false Bible came out that catered conveniently to your own pet theological beliefs.
So were Jehovah’s Witnesses in error for using the KJB for about a hundred years?

You said:

They deliberately remove God's name and replace it with LORD, and some even have it explained in their forward if they included it. I use Ps 110:1 as a prime example as it really makes no sense, but at any rate it is easy to research today to see what occurred there originally if one is honest and sincere anyway. Does it not clearly say that YHWH said to Adonai in Hebrew BH? So why alter the passage?

Click to expand...

Look. The only reason…. You think this way is because your JW’s leaders are telling you this junk. You need to see that your organization is lying to you before you can see the truth of the Bible for what it says. Until then… you are only going to look at things like this through the lens of the Watch Tower instead of letting a normal Bible speak for itself. Right now you have a biased bible that caters to the extra biblical thoughts of the Watch Tower organization.

For example: What is the difference between your cult vs. say the Jim Jones cult?
What makes his cult any different than yours? How do you know you are not being deceived by the Watch Tower? Are you telling me that if the Watch Tower told people to commit suicide that they would not do it? I believe many of them would do that. They would just blindly trust them because they teach that what they are like the very words of GOD. This is why you cannot see.

DavidB said:

Please show me in the Bible why it is necessary go believe not just that Jesus was resurrected, but that he was raised physically?

Click to expand...

It is the word itself!!! or more correctly both words!

1. anastasdia = resurrection= a standing again . Key word AGAIN> If jesus laid down (died) as an invisible spirit creature and became alive again as an invisible spirit crreature- then yes we would rightly say He was resurrected!

2. egeiro= resurrection= The KJV translates Strong's G1453 in the following manner: rise (36x), raise (28x), arise (27x), raise up (23x), rise up (8x), rise again (5x), raise again (4x), miscellaneous (10x).

In order for something to be resurrected- it has to be laid down! Jesus body was laid down!

Robert Gwin said:

All who believe in the spiritual resurrection of Jesus are the children of God Ron

John 3 and Romans 10

Click to expand...

Sorry they are not- it requires belief in His physical resurrection. Teh Watchtowewr says spiritual, but Gods Word does not!

Robert Gwin said:

See it is a fine line sir, we believe Jesus is Divine, but we believe satan is as well, where we likely differ is who is the Almighty God, the Supreme God, and that is Jehovah in our eyes sir.

Click to expand...

So then you are like the mormons. Okay!

And as I have showed you many times- Jesus is called Yahweh.

Robert Gwin said:

*** it-2 p. 313 Manuscripts of the Bible ***
The 7th, 8th, and 9th editions of the Biblia Hebraica (1951-1955) furnished the basic text used to render the Hebrew Scriptures into English in the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures originally published in 1950-1960. A new edition of the Hebrew text, namely Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia, is dated 1977. This edition was used for updating the information presented in the footnotes of the New World Translation published in 1984.

Click to expand...

Sorry. You are not educating me on Bible facts here. I already mentioned the Biblia Hebraica before on the forums already (and how that is not a good text). I was referring to the New Testament portion of the Scriptures when I referred to Westcott and Hort text. Your New World Translation (New Testament) is based on the Westcott and Hort text (Whereby these men were into Catholicism). Your Old Testament is based on the Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia (is merely the 4th edition) started by Rudolf who was anti semitic and his son joined the Nazi party (with his son also being involved in the Bible). So you are still drinking from this well (Which is not good). Think slaughter of the Jews. Your Bible is drawing from a man who was anti-Semitic and his son was a Nazi.

The King James translators were god fearing men and the manuscripts they used was taken from men like Tyndale who was martyred by the Catholic Church for making an English translation. Big difference between my Bible and yours.

Webers_Home said:

.
Continued from No.85

Below is the text of Col 1:16-17 quoted verbatim from the Watchtower
Society's New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures ©1969.

"Because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens
and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter
whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All
[other] things have been created through him and for him. Also, he is before
all [other] things and by means of him all [other] things were made to
exist."

The word "other" is in brackets. This alert readers that "other" is not in the
Greek manuscript; viz: the Society's translators took the liberty to pencil it
in; which gives the impression that God's son was His first creation; and
thereafter, the Son created everything else.

NOTE: I heard it from a JW that the Society's translators added "other"
because that's what Col 1:16-17 means to say even though it doesn't say so
in writing. In other words; that portion of the Society's Bible is an
interpretation rather than a translation.

One day, a pair of Watchtower missionaries came to my door consisting of
an experienced worker and a trainee. I immediately began subjecting the
trainee to a line of questioning that homed in on the Society's rather
dishonest habit of embellishing the Bible in order to reinforce its line of
thinking.

I had him read the Society's text of Col 1:16-17 and then pointed out that
the word "other" is in brackets to alert him to the fact that "other" is not in
the Greek manuscript. The experienced worker corroborated my statement.

I then proceeded to have the trainee read the passage sans "other". It
comes out like this:

"By means of him all things were created in the heavens and upon the earth,
the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are
thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All things have been
created through him and for him. Also, he is before all things and by means
of him all things were made to exist."

The trainee's eyes really lit up; and he actually grinned with delight to
discover that Col 1:16-17 reveals something quite different than what he
was led to believe.

Had I pressed the attack; I would have pointed out that the Society is
inconsistent with its use of the word "other" by failing to pencil it into John
1:3 in order to make it read like this:

"All [other] things came into existence through him, and apart from him not
even one [other] thing came into existence."

FYI: The 1984 revised version of the New World Translation omits brackets
around the word "other" in Col 1:16-17. However, it's readily seen from the
Watchtower Society's Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek
Scriptures ©1969 that "other" is nowhere to be found in the Greek text.
Caveat Lector.
_

Click to expand...

Anyone who accepts and promotes Bible translations that replace the Tetragrammaton with Adonai or Elohim over 6,000 times (with no brackets or italics) has zero credibility to criticize the NWT. Correct that and then we could move on. Take the rafter out of your own eye first would be Jesus’ advice.

Michiah-Imla said:

Most people would worship their creditors when faced with consequences like these:

“But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.” (Matthew 18:25)

Click to expand...

They would worship a creditor as the Almighty Creator. Of course not. But they might prostrate themselves and do obeisance, just what proskyneo means. Unless it is used regarding the Most High God Jehovah.

Webers_Home said:

.
Continued From No.192




None of the Old Testament sacrifices were restored to life. Their bodies all
remained deceased, and some of them were even used for food. So it's
logical to expect that Jesus' body would remain deceased.

Well; one difficulty in that respect is that the Watchtower Society teaches
human existence is entirely physical. So then, were Jesus' body to remain
deceased, the man himself would be no more.

An additional difficulty is consistency. Every resurrection recorded in the
Bible-- both the New Testament and the Old --restored people's dead body
to life: Jonah's too, which is especially important because Jesus related his
own experiences to Jonah's.

But there is a matter of far more consequence to consider.

• Rom 4:25 . . He was delivered up for the sake of our trespasses, and was
raised up for the sake of declaring us righteous.

The first half of that verse speaks of Isa 53:6

"We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way;
and The Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all."

However, though Jesus' crucifixion satisfies retribution for people's sins, the
people remain guilty; similar to when speeders pay a fine for going too fast.
Their payment satisfies retribution for speeding, but the broken law stays on
the books. In other words: a paid fine makes no one innocent.

• 1Cor 15:17 . . If Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you
are still in your sins.

Were Jesus' body to remain dead, people's sins would remain on the books
as a criminal record with which they would be confronted later on down the
line at Rev 20:11-15. In other words: forgiveness obtained via the death of
a sacrifice is merely a reprieve, viz: a dead sacrifice allows God to forgive
but doesn't allow Him to exonerate. (Ex 34:6-7)

The second half of Rom 4:25 speaks of justification: translated from the
Greek word dikaiosis (dik-ah'-yo-sis) which means acquittal; defined as an
adjudication of innocence.

In other words; it's by means of Christ's physical resurrection that people
can get themselves cleared of all wrongs so that on the books it can be as
though they've never been anything but 100% innocent.

* Were I the Devil, the one component of Christianity that I would make my
mission in life to invalidate is Christ's physical resurrection because by
means of its acceptance sinners have the opportunity to obtain an acquittal.
Failure to believe his dead body was restored to life will result in their loss of
the one God-given opportunity to wipe the books; and thus they'll remain on
a sure-fire path to the wrong side of things.
_

Click to expand...

None of the scriptures you used say anything that his body had to be resurrected. You are correct that all previous resurrections involved the body. That is why 1 Corinthians 15:20 calls Jesus the first fruits of the resurrection. He was the first one to be “put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit.” (1 Peter 3:18)
This is what Paul is talking about in 1 Corinthians 15. Vs 40 says: “It is sown a physical body; it is raised up a spiritual body.”

.
Continued From No.201

When Jesus ascended to Heaven forty days after his resurrection, he
underwent the ceremony depicted by Daniel 7:13-14 which established him
as the cosmos' supreme monarch. At that moment, he was in a position to
rule the cosmos in God's stead, but it wasn't till his promotion depicted by
Phil 2:7-11 that he became authorized to rule as God.

• Phil 2:9 . . God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the
name that is above every other name

Note that Jesus wasn't given a name above every other name. Rather, he
was given the name. What name might that be? Well; it's Jehovah; there is
none higher.

So then; Jesus has the God-given right to use God's name for his own name,
viz: Jesus has the right to be addressed as Jehovah, and the right to be
respected and obeyed as Jehovah. Refusal to acknowledge Jesus as Jehovah
is a refusal to acknowledge the glory of God. (Phil 2:10 11) In other words;
it's a shameful show of disrespect for God's name. (cf. Eph 1:15-21)
_

.
Continued From No.212

It's my personal opinion that, unless somebody has undergone specialized
training, it's not a good idea to attempt to evangelize a Watchtower
missionary as I can just about guarantee that experienced JWs are better at
evangelizing us than we are them. If you think that your own gospel
message is some sort of silver bullet; you'll find out right quick that their
silver bullets are quite likely bigger than yours.

Should it be decided to go head to head with Watchtower Society
missionaries, here's some useful tips.

1» It's best to use their Bibles. So round up a copy of the Watchtower
Society's New World Translation of the Bible and the Kingdom Interlinear
Translation of the Greek Scriptures. Sometimes these are available in thrift
stores like Good Will and Salvation Army. Both are available online from
amazon dot com.

For some useful insights into a variety of Jehovah's Witness teachings, the
little brown book titled "Reasoning From The Scriptures" is a must-have. It's
available online too. Be sure to get the Watchtower Society's version instead
of another book by the same name published by a different agency.

2» Do not let these people get personal with you. You must never ever
assume they are your friends because first and foremost their primary
interest is in making you a life-long slave to the Watchtower Society. You
can be courteous and you can be civil, but it's highly recommended that you
not let them into your life.

3» Do not accept their literature. They will want to come back later and
discuss it with you; thus taking control of both your thinking and the
meeting.

4» Don't let them get too far into their spiel, but at the first opportunity
begin introducing your own questions; thus denying them control of the
conversation.

5» Do not debate. You're not a salesman pushing a product, nor a recruiter,
nor a candidate running for an elected office: you're not on a quota, you're
not out to win anything, nor are you required to win— you're a herald; viz: a
messenger. Your information is best presented as a second opinion for them
to think about; and that's all. No hammering, no pressuring, and no having
the last word. Keep moving.

The goal is to show missionaries that the Society's isn't the only expert
opinion out there. In other words: the Watchtower Society's interpretations
aren't the only option; nor are theirs eo ipso the right interpretations just
because the Governing Body says so.

6» Avoid getting embroiled in trivial issues like birthdays, Easter, Christmas,
Christmas trees, the design and construction of the wooden device upon
which Christ was crucified, saluting the flag, service in the military, and that
sort of thing. There are much bigger fish to fry than those.

The No.1 issue on their minds when they come to your door will likely be
Jehovah's kingdom, in particular, the portion of His kingdom to be on Earth.

7» Make them listen and pay attention to what you say even if you have to
repeat yourself to do it, or clap your hands, snap your fingers, or raise your
voice. Do not let them digress, change the subject, go off on a tangent, nor
get distracted and/or turn their attention elsewhere while you're speaking.

If they start digging through their bags, shuffling papers, tinkering with their
tablets, or looking up a reference; call them on it because there is no use in
speaking when their minds are elsewhere engaged.

8» Do not permit them to interrupt you and/or talk out of turn. Politely, but
firmly, insist that they hold their peace until you've said your piece.

9» Do not permit them to evade and/or circumvent difficult questions. They
sometimes say that they will have to confer with someone more
knowledgeable. When they do that, the meeting is over. Thank them politely
for their time and then ask them to leave and come back when they have
the information. Do not let them stay and start a new topic of their own.

10» Do not react and/or respond to ad hominems, which can be defined as a
logical fallacy in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character,
motive, qualifications and/or other attribute of the person making the
argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking
the substance of the argument itself.

They will most likely challenge your qualifications; for example your training
in the Greek and Hebrew languages. But don't let them get away with
discrediting you as a means to invalidating your information.

11» These people undergo hour upon hour of training to refute standard
Christian doctrines, so it's very important to show them the Bible not only in
ways they've already seen, but also in ways they've never imagined.

12» And finally, do not expect a eureka moment from these folks; because
even if you best them scripture for scripture, they will not give up on the
Society. Their mind's unflinching premise is that the Society is right even
when it appears to be totally wrong. They are thoroughly convinced that the
Society is the voice of God, while your voice has no more validity than that
of a squeaky little gerbil.
_

Webers_Home said:

.
Continued From No.212

It's my personal opinion that, unless somebody has undergone specialized
training, it's not a good idea to attempt to evangelize a Watchtower
missionary as I can just about guarantee that experienced JWs are better at
evangelizing us than we are them. If you think that your own gospel
message is some sort of silver bullet; you'll find out right quick that their
silver bullets are quite likely bigger than yours.

Should it be decided to go head to head with Watchtower Society
missionaries, here's some useful tips.

1» It's best to use their Bibles. So round up a copy of the Watchtower
Society's New World Translation of the Bible and the Kingdom Interlinear
Translation of the Greek Scriptures. Sometimes these are available in thrift
stores like Good Will and Salvation Army. Both are available online from
amazon dot com.

For some useful insights into a variety of Jehovah's Witness teachings, the
little brown book titled "Reasoning From The Scriptures" is a must-have. It's
available online too. Be sure to get the Watchtower Society's version instead
of another book by the same name published by a different agency.

2» Do not let these people get personal with you. You must never ever
assume they are your friends because first and foremost their primary
interest is in making you a life-long slave to the Watchtower Society. You
can be courteous and you can be civil, but it's highly recommended that you
not let them into your life.

3» Do not accept their literature. They will want to come back later and
discuss it with you; thus taking control of both your thinking and the
meeting.

4» Don't let them get too far into their spiel, but at the first opportunity
begin introducing your own questions; thus denying them control of the
conversation.

5» Do not debate. You're not a salesman pushing a product, nor a recruiter,
nor a candidate running for an elected office: you're not on a quota, you're
not out to win anything, nor are you required to win— you're a herald; viz: a
messenger. Your information is best presented as a second opinion for them
to think about; and that's all. No hammering, no pressuring, and no having
the last word. Keep moving.

The goal is to show missionaries that the Society's isn't the only expert
opinion out there. In other words: the Watchtower Society's interpretations
aren't the only option; nor are theirs eo ipso the right interpretations just
because the Governing Body says so.

6» Avoid getting embroiled in trivial issues like birthdays, Easter, Christmas,
Christmas trees, the design and construction of the wooden device upon
which Christ was crucified, saluting the flag, service in the military, and that
sort of thing. There are much bigger fish to fry than those.

The No.1 issue on their minds when they come to your door will likely be
Jehovah's kingdom, in particular, the portion of His kingdom to be on Earth.

7» Make them listen and pay attention to what you say even if you have to
repeat yourself to do it, or clap your hands, snap your fingers, or raise your
voice. Do not let them digress, change the subject, go off on a tangent, nor
get distracted and/or turn their attention elsewhere while you're speaking.

If they start digging through their bags, shuffling papers, tinkering with their
tablets, or looking up a reference; call them on it because there is no use in
speaking when their minds are elsewhere engaged.

8» Do not permit them to interrupt you and/or talk out of turn. Politely, but
firmly, insist that they hold their peace until you've said your piece.

9» Do not permit them to evade and/or circumvent difficult questions. They
sometimes say that they will have to confer with someone more
knowledgeable. When they do that, the meeting is over. Thank them politely
for their time and then ask them to leave and come back when they have
the information. Do not let them stay and start a new topic of their own.

10» Do not react and/or respond to ad hominems, which can be defined as a
logical fallacy in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character,
motive, qualifications and/or other attribute of the person making the
argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking
the substance of the argument itself.

They will most likely challenge your qualifications; for example your training
in the Greek and Hebrew languages. But don't let them get away with
discrediting you as a means to invalidating your information.

11» These people undergo hour upon hour of training to refute standard
Christian doctrines, so it's very important to show them the Bible not only in
ways they've already seen, but also in ways they've never imagined.

12» And finally, do not expect a eureka moment from these folks; because
even if you best them scripture for scripture, they will not give up on the
Society. Their mind's unflinching premise is that the Society is right even
when it appears to be totally wrong. They are thoroughly convinced that the
Society is the voice of God, while your voice has no more validity than that
of a squeaky little gerbil.
_

Click to expand...

One problem is the original languages game. Nobody today can actually read and write Biblical Hebrew and Biblical Greek like the original authors. We can only make guesses that we know these kind of languages. We did not grow up in these cultures to truly know these languages. We don’t have a Moses around to check our Hebrew or an apostle Paul to check our Greek. What we do have are the words of God for today in the English. If God wants to talk to us, He is going to use our language or at the very least the world language of today (Which is English). God never says in the Bible for us to know some ancient dead language that we are not familiar with in order to truly know what He says. God is not requiring me to know some ancient dead language. God is requiring me to believe His Word plainly by faith today. I know English. They know English. It’s how we communicate. I don’t have faith in what scholars say, I have faith in what the Bible says. The bible at JW.org is written in English and not Hebrew and Greek. If they lie in their Bible in the English and I point that out to them, they should know that their organization is lying to them like with John 20:25 and their picture of Jesus with only one nail in his hand. Their religion is a joke and a first class act of deception in the highest.

I also do not care if they don’t listen. I will keep pointing out their same errors over and over and over and over again. I know most of them will not listen. But it only takes one who has doubts about the organization because of abuse they witnesses by the hands of their leaders, or an inconsistency in their own religion that is tugging at their heart as being wrong.

If they will follow anything their organization says blindly… they need to know how destructive this kind of thinking is. Mention Jim Jones to them and ask what happened involving that crazy guy. What will prevent the Watch Tower from abusing their followers in the same way? What if they did this? Would they not drink the Flavor-Aid with poison in it if the Watch Tower told them to do it? I am sure many of them would do it. So what makes the Watch Tower cult any different than Jim Jones cult? Nothing. The difference is the Watch Tower has not asked anyone to kill themselves yet. We can hope that will not happen. But it potentially can. Therein lies the flaw in their false religion. Any unimaginable evil can be commanded by the Watch Tower and they must obey without question. They must turn off their moral compass and obey the words of the Watch Tower. It sounds like some kind of horror movie. But it’s real life and they are the ones who are at the control to act out anything just because the Watch Tower says so. This is what cults do. Ask them to research other cults and how they destroyed people’s lives. Ask them to help identify the characteristics of a cult. By doing so… they will see that they are in one.

Jesus said, “Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.” (Mark 10:15).

In other words, it's like this:



In other words, one has to believe.



But if one does not believe like a child and they complicate things and create their own games to not believe the text plainly, then the following below happens.

“When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.” (Matthew 13:19).

JW's used to use the King James Bible that admits that God was manifest in the flesh (i.e. The Word who is God was made flesh). But now they follow a bible that caters to their pet theology. The New World Translation follows the Westcott and Hort text just like other popular Modern Translations do (via the Nestle and Aland text).

DavidB said:

I’m amazed that you think this post supports the trinity.

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When have I ever suggested I support the trinity? I believe there are 3 divine members of the Godhead, but I do not accept the trinity as we have them taught to is by creeds and assumptions of man. Just take my posts as your read them. Dont make assumptions.

DavidB said:

I’m amazed that you think this post supports the trinity.

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I'm amazed you could read it and think it was designed to support the trinity.

DavidB said:

You clearly believe that the Son was brought forth. This is what the Bible teaches. Yet the trinity teaches the three are all coeternal, without beginning. The error is glaring.

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Couldn't agree more.

Bible Highlighter said:

Most do not know that all Modern Bibles are influenced by the Vatican.

Here it is straight out of the Nestle and Aland Critical Text 27th Edition (New Testament Greek text). Note: The Nestle and Aland Critical Text is in it’s 28th edition now and it is the basis for most of the Modern English Bibles printed today. But the 27th edition below says this…

Source:
The KJB Only versus the Latin Vulgate Only Argument by: Another King James Bible Believer

I am going to repeat the text and highlight the key points.

“The text shared by these two editions was adopted internationally by Bible Societies, and following an agreement between the Vatican and United Bible Societies it has served as the basis for new translations and for revisions made under their supervision. This marks a significant step with regard to inter confessionals relationships.”​

So…

#1. The text shared by these two editions was adopted internationally by Bible Societies.
#2. Following an agreement between the Vatican and United Bible Societies
#3. It has served as the basis for new translations and for revisions made under their supervision. (Note: What is the word “it” referring to in this sentence? This could be referring to the text and it is the basis (foundation) for new translations and revisions (Modern Bibles)).
#4. The text is the basis for new bible translations made under their supervision (the Vatican) which marks a significant step in regards to inter confessional relationships. Why does it mark a significant step? Because Carlo Martini (A Catholic cardinal) is an editor on the Nestle and Aland Critical Text.

In fact, let's check out the Nestle and Aland Critical Text page at Wikipedia called:

“Novum Testamentum Graece”

Novum Testamentum Graece - Wikipedia

Scroll down the page, and you will see pictures of Nestle, and Aland.
Note: Nestle worked on the Critical Text years before Aland.
Kurt Aland is the one who worked on the Critical Text involving the Vatican. How so?

Notice the highlighted words in the pic below.

Carlo Maria Martini.

If you were to zoom in and look at the picture below Kurt Aland:

Again, who is Carlo Maria Martini?

As I said before, he is a Catholic cardinal.

Source:
Carlo Maria Martini - Wikipedia

Important Note: JUST CLICK ON THE LINK FOR CARLO MARIA MARTINI MENTIONED IN THE ARTICLE).

But wait. There’s more. Let’s look at Kurt Aland again. I circled his picture below for you to see him. You can see his name next to his picture.

Now in this photo, you can see Kurt Aland with the pope:

Why?

Because of this:

“The text shared by these two editions was adopted internationally by Bible Societies, and following an agreement between the Vatican and United Bible Societies it has served as the basis for new translations and for revisions made under their supervision. This marks a significant step with regard to inter confessionals relationships.”

Source:
Nestle and Aland Critical Text - 27the Edition.

But Guess which Bible the Roman Catholic Church does NOT want you to read -

Yes, I am aware that this is an older book by the Catholic Church. But it is still pretty recent in history.

But why bring this up?
See my next post.

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Of course it's just coincidence that not so long ago Bible societies were the excrement of the earth, at least as far as Rome was concerned, and the Bible itself, at least the KJV, forbidden and fit only for bonfires.
And now however that we have all those emasculated versions the Bible societies are now exemplary examples of Christian virtue? So long as they don't promote the KJV.