Non-Trinitarians, Please Answer This

Hidden In Him said:

I'm having trouble finding out what the non-Trinitarian position is to this question, so I thought I would ask the non-Trinitarians on this forum (I know we have a bunch here):

Scripture says that Jesus and the Father share the same throne in Heaven (Revelation 22:1, 3). If so, how could this infer anything else but that Jesus is God if He is seated together with Him on the same throne? Will not the inhabitants of Heaven worship Him like they do the Father if He is seated on the throne of Almighty God?

Revelation chapter 22 states, “And he showed me a river of water of life, bright as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb...No longer will there be anything accursed, but the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and His servants will serve Him.” The Greek here reads, “του θρονου του θεου και του αρνιου (the throne of God and of the Lamb)”; two different Persons but only one throne, since “του θρονου” is singular in number.

Thank you for your answers in advance, and God bless
Hidden In Him

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Hello Hidden In Him once again since 9-20-21 from Christian Forums.net, on the thread Jesus Is God Part 1, I'm now a Genuine Christian, but your OP is interesting again, how have you been? I tell you I have learned a lot more since then, that Jesus Is GOD by the scriptures as His Father spirit moves while viewing this thread.

Love, Walter

LetThyWordBeVerified said:

Sir, the scriptures say that there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. And in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. As it is written, God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself. And again, God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. Amen.​

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Welcome to the forum.

The identity of the mediator is very clear. Who is the one God?

LetThyWordBeVerified said:

Sir, the scriptures say that there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. And in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. As it is written, God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself. And again, God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. Amen.​

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Welcome to @ Christianity Boards.
Be blessed in TRUTH!

LetThyWordBeVerified said:

Sir, the scriptures say that there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. And in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. As it is written, God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself. And again, God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. Amen.​

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Examining the Trinity: Fulness

Examining the Trinity: 1 Tim. 3:16 God "manifest in the flesh" KJV

Yes Jesus was God in heaven before He came to earth and lived as a man who bought our salvation with His blood and rose from death and ascended to heaven and is God forever!

Hidden In Him said:

Doing well, brother, and very blessed. So glad to hear you are learning some new things from the word of God. Along with growing in the word, it strengthens us spiritually, and builds up our faith in Him to even greater levels.

Good to hear from you. If I'm absent for a time, it's just that I've rededicated myself to the word and to writing.

God bless, and continue growing in Christ Jesus our Lord.
- H

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Hay Brother, always good to hear from you.

Love, Walter

Hidden In Him said:

I'm having trouble finding out what the non-Trinitarian position is to this question, so I thought I would ask the non-Trinitarians on this forum (I know we have a bunch here):

Scripture says that Jesus and the Father share the same throne in Heaven (Revelation 22:1, 3). If so, how could this infer anything else but that Jesus is God if He is seated together with Him on the same throne? Will not the inhabitants of Heaven worship Him like they do the Father if He is seated on the throne of Almighty God?

Revelation chapter 22 states, “And he showed me a river of water of life, bright as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb...No longer will there be anything accursed, but the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and His servants will serve Him.” The Greek here reads, “του θρονου του θεου και του αρνιου (the throne of God and of the Lamb)”; two different Persons but only one throne, since “του θρονου” is singular in number.

Thank you for your answers in advance, and God bless
Hidden In Him

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I am what some (not all) classify as 'non-trinitarian' (Roman Catholic def.) because it is unscriptural, and destroys the Gospel. My belief, scripturally, is in the eternal heavenly Trio, see 1 John 5:7-8; Zechariah 3:1-2; Isaiah 48:16; &c.

So, to answer your question, which may be geared more specifically to another set of beliefs (i.e. arian, unitarian, modalism, sabellianism, etc), 'Jesus' (the person/being of the Son) is God (not the person/being of the Father, but Deity by nature as stemming from His Father's nature, eternal, everlasting). John 1:1-18 is so clear on this point, that all but the hardened in heart, refusing the witness of the inspiration of God, the Holy Ghost, can see and read it stated plainly.

All must honour the Son as they do the Father -

Joh_5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

So, Jesus, by sitting upon the right hand of the Majesty (Father) on High on the eternal throne of Deity, is God (eternal Deity).

JEHOVAH Elohiym is the eternal family/relationship. JEHOVAH is the singular eternal family name, while Elohiym (Gods, trio) are the individual Persons/Beings that exist in that eternal family/relationship, Matt. 28:19; 1 Jhn. 5:7,8.

1. JEHOVAH, "the LORD" (Gen. 19:24b.; Zec. 3:2b.), "the Ancient of days" (Dan. 7:9,13,22) is "the only true God" (Jhn. 17:3; τὸν μόνον ἀληθινὸν θεὸν), "God" (Jhn. 1:1b.; τὸν θεόν), "thy God" (Heb. 1:9; ὁ θεός σου), "God the Father" (2 Jhn. 1:3; θεοῦ πατρός) the "person" (Job 13:8; Heb. 1:3) identified in the beginning as the "God said" (Gen. 1:6), for it was by Him that Revelation says, "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created." (Rev. 4:11).

2. Jesus JEHOVAH (Gen.49:18; Exo. 14:13; 2 Chr. 20:17; Jon. 2:9; Psa. 119:174 HOT) or JEHOVAH Immanuel (see Psa. 46:7,11 HOT)), "the LORD" (Gen. 19:24a.; Zec. 3:2a.), "the son of man" (Dan. 7:13), "the only begotten" (Jhn. 1:14,18, 3:16,18; Heb. 11:17; 1 Jhn. 4:9, is basically monogene (μονογενῆ; Jhn. 3:16; Heb. 11:17; 1 Jhn. 4:9) or monogenes (μονογενὴς; Jhn. 1:18) or monogenous (μονογενοῦς; Jhn. 1:14, 3:18)), "the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father" (2 Jhn. 1:3; Κυρίου Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ τοῦ υἱοῦ τοῦ πατρός) is not "the only true God" (Jhn. 17:3), but is "the express image of his person" (Heb. 1:3; χαρακτὴρ τῆς ὑποστάσεως αὐτοῦ), being "the Word was God" (Jhn. 1:1c.; θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος), who is "O God" (Heb. 1:9; ὁ θεός), the "just person" (Matt. 27:24, "person", 2 Cor. 2:10) indentified in the beginning as "God made" (Gen. 1:7) on behalf of the Father's direction (Pro. 8:22-36; Exo. 20:12), for it was by him (the Son) that John says, "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." (Jhn. 1:3), that Ephesians says, "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:" (Eph. 3:9), that Colossians says, "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:" (Col. 1:16), that Hebrews says, "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;" (Heb. 1:2), the very, "I AM THAT I AM" (Exo. 3:14), the great "I am" (Jhn. 8:58; ἐγὼ εἰμί), the very "fellow" (Zec. 13:7) of the Father's person, and who comes in the name of His Father (Jhn. 5:43).

3. The Holy Spirit of JEHOVAH (Luk. 4:18), "his Spirit" (Isa. 48:16), "the LORD" (Zec. 3:2c.), the "another Comforter" (Jhn. 14:6), even "he", "the spirit of truth" (Jhn. 14:17, 15:26, 16:13), "God" (Acts 5:4), identified in the beginning as "the Spirit of God moved" (Gen. 1:2) and "God saw" (Gen. 1 throughout, the eternal Witness who inspired the scriptures; 2 Tim. 3:16-17; 2 Pet. 1:21), by which/whom everything is "created" (Psa. 104:30) and "made" (Job 33:4), whose nature is a mystery left unspoken of in scripture, but is the person who does "not speak of himself" (Jhn. 16:13), but comes in the name of the Son (Jhn. 14:26).

The eternal Heavenly Trio - family JEHOVAH Elohiym, over all creation as "Godhead".

ReChoired - too many different things to reply to. I'll just respond to your first three scriptures.

1 John 5:7-8 is provably spurious and nearly all trinitarian scholars agree.

Zechariah 3:1-2. Sorry, I don't see any relevance.

Is. 48:16 - Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD [Jehovah], and his spirit, hath sent me. - KJV.

Commenting on this scripture some trinitarians will say: “The speaker of Is. 48:16 is Jehovah as identified by context in the first part of the verse and as shown by his identification in verse 17 where he continues to speak. But notice that Jehovah, who is speaking, says: ‘The Lord GOD [Jehovah] ... hath sent me.’ Therefore there must be at least two persons who are Jehovah!”

The answer to such “proof” is obvious: “speaker confusion.” Isaiah, like most other Bible writers, often interspersed the conversation of one person with statements by others and often doesn’t identify the new speakers. Very often they appear to be comments by Isaiah himself.

That this is very likely the case here is shown, not only by context, but by these modern trinitarian Bible translations: The RSV and the NIV Bibles show by quotation marks and indenting that Isaiah himself made the final comment in Is. 48:16. The NAB also indicates a new speaker there, and, in the St. Joseph edition of the NAB, a footnote for Is. 48:16 tells us that the final statement was made by Cyrus! And the trinitarian Holy Bible: Easy-to-Read Version, World Bible Translation Center, 1992, comes right out and says at Is. 48:16,

“‘Come here and listen to me! ... from the beginning, I spoke clearly, so that people could know what I said.’ Then Isaiah said, ‘Now the Lord [Jehovah] my master sends me and his Spirit to tell you these things.’ ”

The New English Bible (NEB), The Revised English Bible (REB), and the Bible translation by Dr. James Moffatt (Mo) consider the last statement of Is. 48:16 to be spurious and leave it out of their translations entirely.

Also see CEB, CSB, ERV, ESV, EXB, GNT, HCSB, ICB, NCV, NET (and f.n.), NLT, TPT, WEB, etc. Quotation marks are important here also.

Certainly these trinitarian translations would have rendered this scripture (and punctuated it accordingly) to show a two-Jehovah meaning (or given such an alternate rendering in the footnotes) if their trinitarian translators had thought there was even the slightest justification for such an interpretation! (Also analyze Jer. 51:19 - Jacob is the former of all things - Jehovah of hosts is his name, according to this trinitarian-type "speaker confusion" reasoning!)

"The prophet himself, [Isaiah] as a type of the great prophet, asserts his own commission to deliver this message: Now the Lord God (the same that spoke from the beginning and did not speak in secret) has by his Spirit sent me, v. 16." - Matthew Henry Complete Commentary on the Whole Bible, Isaiah Chapter 48 verse 16.