Billy Graham, and a new crusade

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2ndRateMind

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Hmmm. Weak. However, I have neither the time nor inclination to educate you all. You are adults; that is your responsibility. Meanwhile, we shall all just have to agree to disagree.

Now, can we please discuss the distribution of the world's wealth? And how we might save lives, and very likely our souls, by doing it better? A few years ago, pre-Covid, I did some back of an envelope calculations based on numbers from Credit Suisse. It seems there is enough wealth in the world for every man, woman and child on Earth to have a net worth of $33,000, and an annual income of $27,000. It is perfectly possible to live on such a budget; in fact, I live happily and contentedly on somewhat less. The advantage of such an equitable distribution is that everyone would get enough to eat. I do not see any disadvantages that outweigh this.

Best wishes, 2RM.
 
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Behold

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And how we might save lives, and very likely our souls,

If you can save your soul by giving to the poor, then why did Christ have to die on the Cross?

So, its pretty obvious that your "im born again" is not related to the Cross of Christ, if you actually BELIEVE you can "save your soul" by being good to the Poor.
And you must believe it, as you just wrote it.

Guess again.
 

2ndRateMind

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Christ's crucifixion was a demonstration of the extent of His love. Do you really think He would have denied a poor man a reasonably dignified living, were that in His power to bestow? Instead, He gave us the only example He could; that no sacrifice was too great for Him, and should not be for a Christian.

Best wishes, 2RM.
 
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Behold

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Christ's crucifixion was a demonstration of the extent of His love. Do you really think He would have denied a poor man a reasonably dignified living, were that in His power to bestow? Instead, He gave us the only example He could; that no sacrifice was too great for HIm, and should not be for a Christian.
.

What you said, previously, was that you can "save your soul" by giving to the Poor.

Now you are trying to update that bit of nonsense, previously stated by recreating a brand new OPINION.

You have more opinions then you have good sense, it would seem.

People like you, have no inner foundation, as you are always 'well, my next opinion is my new belief system."

In the bible, you are known as : Double Minded.
 

2ndRateMind

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So do you prefer the status quo, that sees people starve? If not, what is your proposal?

Best wishes, 2RM.
 

Behold

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So do you prefer the status quo, that sees people starve? If not, what is your proposal?

Best wishes,2RM.

Are you posting to me?
Can you "REPLY" to me, so that i see it?

So, to answer your question, if you are talking to me...

"poverty is the destruction of the poor".

At this point in time, you can't change the world, as it is on its course, as the Devil has designed it to exist.

There are small avenues of change that can be applied, such as changing the politics in a country by vote.

Jesus said that there will always be the poor.

Its a shame that there can't exist on earth a UTOPIA where we all have a house, health care, food.
Communism tried to produce this, but the people in this system have to be treated like Dogs to control them, as when you change a culture from work based to food stamp based, you end up with a type of person that you have to CONTROL by force.
WORK develops character, and food stamp mentality develops a carnal selfishness that just gets worse.

Pure Capitalism, leaves out Love and Concern and a helping hand.

Is there a "in between"..... that works? And if there is, how to implement it world wide?
Its impossible.
So, its easy to be idealistic and want everyone to have a share of the pie, but, the real world system is created by the Devil, and he created it to cause the suffering.
 
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2ndRateMind

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Oh right! It's not our fault, it's the Devil's! And all this while we make the laws that distribute the world's wealth. The fact is, there is enough wealth in the world for us all to have food, housing, healthcare. But we can't have that, and millionaires as well. We have to decide which we prefer. And that is our decision, not the Devil's.

Best wishes, 2RM.
 
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Behold

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Oh right! It's not our fault,.

Your "our" is the last 90 yrs....
We live in a space of about 90 yrs.

This world didnt just become a DITCH.
ITs been one, starting with the Fall of Adam.

So, it a very old world, and a continuing problem..........poverty, health care concerns, shelter, food....... its not a brand new issue.
Its ancient.
And i ascribe to this concept....>"""no burden is too heavy, if everybody LIFTS"".
THe thing is, most want to sit on the sofa, feeling entitled, and collect from the WELFARE STATE, instead of doing any "LIFTING".
The FEW that want to lift, can't lift it all, 2ndratemind.
Thats a fact.

So, yes, there is a real Devil, and he hopes you dont believe it.
 

2ndRateMind

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So, I presume you are one of those that wants to lift. That's good. We can make a start, simply by gradually reducing our annual budgets to the figures I gave, and donating any excess we might have at the end of each year to appropriate charities. Are you up for that?

Best wishes, 2RM.
 

Enoch111

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It seems there is enough wealth in the world for every man, woman and child on Earth to have a net worth of $33,000, and an annual income of $27,000.
I do not doubt it. But the problem of selfishness and greed remains. All the trillions of dollars which have gone to the third world in "foreign aid" for the past 70 years have made absolutely no impact on the living conditions of people in those countries. That's because the money was put into the hands of those in power, who in turn grabbed it for themselves. Then we have the obscene bonuses to bankers for doing what? Offering less than 1% interest to savings account. Then we have obscene bonuses to the people who destroyed lives through the COVID Scamdemic. And what about all the politicians who do absolutely nothing to fulfil their responsibilities and walk away with huge salaries + retirement benefits. In fact they undermine their own countries while profiting from tax-payer dollars.
 
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2ndRateMind

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I do not deny that the world needs a radical rethink of the way it does stuff. But selfishness and greed can only be fixed one soul at a time. Our own. And this is the opportunity I am trying to lay out in this thread.

Best wishes, 2RM.
 

Behold

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So, I presume you are one of those that wants to lift. That's good. We can make a start, simply by gradually reducing our annual budgets to the figures I gave, and donating any excess we might have at the end of each year to appropriate charities. Are you up for that?

Best wishes, 2RM.

I do more than talk about it on forums.
Im lifting for years.
 

2ndRateMind

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What Bible verse makes it a sin to have wealth?

Since there are no bible verses, what is the source of your “special revelation”?

If you can save your soul by giving to the poor, then why did Christ have to die on the Cross?

So, its pretty obvious that your "im born again" is not related to the Cross of Christ, if you actually BELIEVE you can "save your soul" by being good to the Poor.
And you must believe it, as you just wrote it.

Guess again.

The Parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man. Luke 16: 19-31 KJV.

19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:

28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

......

It seems, as far as Jesus is concerned, we just are our neighbour's keeper.

Best wishes, 2RM.
 
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Behold

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It seems, as far as Jesus is concerned, we just are our neighbour's keeper.

Best wishes, 2RM.

Jesus said that we will always have the poor with us.

The bible teaches that "Poverty is the destruction of the poor".

So, your earlier "position" was that you could save your own soul, by giving to the poor.
You can't.
But, there are many blessings associated with helping others, especially the poor.
 

2ndRateMind

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Jesus said that we will always have the poor with us.

Read the context! (Matthew 26:11 and Mark 14:7 KJV). Jesus was talking to a specific audience (His disciples) at a specific time, in a specific place. And it was quite true: His disciples always would have the poor with them, for the rest of their lives. But for the first time in history, we have the power and resources to end that, if we only choose to do so. And if we do, all of heaven's choirs will sing.

Best wishes, 2RM.
 
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2ndRateMind

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Interlude 1

This is one of my favourite charities. It hits so many desirable targets at once: Provides food for the poor. Provides employment opportunities for the poor. Locks up carbon to combat climate change. Increases the availibility and reduces the price of cashew nuts (my favourites!)

If my poverty eradication programme is a little too radical for your taste, you may like to consider a small donation, here. Thanks in advance,

Best wishes, 2RM.
 

Behold

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If my poverty eradication programme is a little too radical for your taste,

Helping the poor is a God given ministry to every believer, so, that is not "radical", that is The Love of God, reaching out.

What is radical, is you telling Christians that they can "save their soul" by giving to the poor, as that theology seriously indicates you are not familiar with The finished work of Jesus on the Cross, 2ndRateMind.
 

2ndRateMind

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Helping the poor is a God given ministry to every believer, so, that is not "radical", that is The Love of God, reaching out.

Agreed. But what is politically, economically and psychologically radical is the extent of the help I request.

What is radical, is you telling Christians that they can "save their soul" by giving to the poor, as that theology seriously indicates you are not familiar with The finished work of Jesus on the Cross, 2ndRateMind.

Did you actually read that parable? I cannot see any other conclusion you can reasonably draw. And I do not think Jesus ever meant His life and death to be misconstrued as a 'Get into Heaven free ticket' for conventional believers.

Best wishes, 2RM.