Assurance of salvation

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Episkopos

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One cannot have a relationship with Christ with the faculties we are born with. We don't see Jesus with our natural eyes. But we are given another type of sight at the time of our regeneration so as to see without human eyes. We walk by faith not by sight. By faith we see what is unseen and hear what carnal ears cannot hear.

So there is the natural world and the spiritual realm....and we use natural faculties for the one and spiritual faculties for the other.

We are born anew into the realm where Jesus is....the realm of the kingdom of God. This realm is holy and separate from the world. We are to walk in that realm in order to defeat the ruler of this present world and do the will of God.

One can only see the kingdom through grace AFTER the old nature has been rendered "dead". We must cease to rely on our natural faculties.....we need to give up on them in order to see the truth. The truth cannot be received through our natural faculties (eyes and ears). But by faith God opens the door to us in order to be able to interact with Him.
 

aspen

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One thing we know is that it is not the many that find the truth, it is the few. The truth is that Jesus shed His blood on the cross to reconcile sinners to God. Jesus did for sinners what they could not do for themselves. Glad to have you on the forum.

Richard

This statement is so self-fulfilling. "People disagree with me because not many are called to the heights I am called to as a humble servant of the Lord!"

It reminds me of the Christian habit of justifying antisocial behavior by claiming "The world rejects me because of my imitation of Christ, not because of my obnoxious behavior!"

Every I is dotted and T is crossed in the decree of Self.
 

RichardBurger

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This statement is so self-fulfilling. "People disagree with me because not many are called to the heights I am called to as a humble servant of the Lord!"

It reminds me of the Christian habit of justifying antisocial behavior by claiming "The world rejects me because of my imitation of Christ, not because of my obnoxious behavior!"

Every I is dotted and T is crossed in the decree of Self.

Matthew 7:13-14
13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
NKJV

I bet you would say the same things to Jesus who said the above.
 

aspen

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Matthew 7:13-14
13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
NKJV

I bet you would say the same things to Jesus who said the above.

Jesus didn't have a persecution complex so you would lose your bet.
 

RichardBurger

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Jesus didn't have a persecution complex so you would lose your bet.

Jesus said:

Matthew 7:13-14
13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
NKJV

I said:

One thing we know is that it is not the many that find the truth, it is the few.

Looks to me that I said the same thing Jesus said in different words, so, If I have a persecution complex according to you then so did Jesus.
 

logabe

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Jesus said:

Matthew 7:13-14
13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
NKJV

I said:


One thing we know is that it is not the many that find the truth, it is the few.

Looks to me that I said the same thing Jesus said in different words, so, If I have a persecution complex according to you then so did Jesus.


Where do you get this Truth from? The Holy Ghost is the Spirit of Truth
and it helps us to learn the ways of God through His Law. As I have said
many times, "the Law is not the problem".

Jesus said, he that overcomes shall inherit all things. Overcome what?
The ability to understand the purpose and plan of God through the Law
and the prophets. Luke 24:44-45 says,

44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I
spoke unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things
must be fulfilled, which was written in the Law of Moses,
and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might
understand the scriptures.

As I have said before, the law is the revelation of the character and mind
of Jesus Christ as given to Moses. Anything Jesus says to do is a command
and a law, whether it is found in the Scriptures or by hearing the voice of the
Spirit.

Because all have sinned, and because of our inherent weakness inherited
from Adam, it is not possible for any man to be justified by being perfect.
Simply put, no man is perfect—and even if by some chance a man should
come to be perfect in his later life, this would still not justify his past sins.
Hence, one's obedience to the law cannot be used to justify any man.
Learning obedience is the process of sanctification, not justification.

The process of sanctification, growing in Christ and in the knowledge of His
word, has much to do with learning the will of God for each person's life. I
am for from being perfect but, do I just quit because I see my flaws or do I
continue to allow God to change my situations and in the end qualify for the
1st Resurrection. Many are called but few are chosen and the reason many
are not chosen is because they would rather do it there way and walk in their
own religious spirit.

They would rather keep the Law in their own way and take the credit for being
righteous in their own eyes. God want's us to be obedient to His Law. But
without the active leading of the Spirit in one's life, one cannot hope to apply
the law correctly and with the right spirit and attitude. Romans 2:18 says,

18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are
more excellent, being instructed out of the law.

We who have been set free from the law are now free to be obedient to our
Redeemer, as the law says in Lev. 25:53. Now that we have been set free
from the taskmaster of sin (lawlessness), we have been set free to be
bondservants of Jesus Christ, our Redeemer. Rom. 6:18 says,

18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves
of righteousness.
22 But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to
God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification,
and the outcome eternal life.

To make a long story short, we have to remember to humble ourselves
everyday so in the end we can be chosen by God to inherit all things. If
we don't overcome, we will have to wait a thousand years and we will
miss the Tabernacles age completely. But, that's not to say that God
will throw us away, no, we will just miss that wonderful age of beauty
and restoration.

Hence, my solution would be to learn obedience through the things you
suffer which is sanctification and never give up on God. God knows
exactly what you are going through and he is on your side in the midst
of your trials. And please, don't mix justification with santification because
you will never be able to rightly divide the word of truth.

Wide is the gate that leads to destruction and many will go into the grave
without experiencing the immortality in the first harvest. You have to ask
yourself, do I want to press into the high calling of God or will I be satisfied
with a low calling? It's left up to you.



Logabe
 

Episkopos

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Jesus said:

Matthew 7:13-14
13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
NKJV

I said:

One thing we know is that it is not the many that find the truth, it is the few.

Looks to me that I said the same thing Jesus said in different words, so, If I have a persecution complex according to you then so did Jesus.

I am no psychologist but your take on the bible could be understood from a physco-analytical perspective, You are trying to project your own reality and faults on something you don't understand. You don't realize the great error you are making.
 

jiggyfly

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Good post Logabe, Christ, Himself had to learn obedience through suffering. Here are a couple of other scriptures that compliment/support your post.

8 Even though Jesus was God’s Son, he learned obedience from the things he suffered.9 In this way, God qualified him as a perfect High Priest, and he became the source of eternal salvation for all those who obey him.10 And God designated him to be a High Priest in the order of Melchizedek.
Heb 5:8-10 (NLT)

7 I once thought these things were valuable, but now I consider them worthless because of what Christ has done.8 Yes, everything else is worthless when compared with the infinite value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have discarded everything else, counting it all as garbage, so that I could gain Christ9 and become one with him. I no longer count on my own righteousness through obeying the law; rather, I become righteous through faith in Christ. For God’s way of making us right with himself depends on faith.10 I want to know Christ and experience the mighty power that raised him from the dead. I want to suffer with him, sharing in his death,11 so that one way or another I will experience the resurrection from the dead!
Phil 3:7-11 (NLT)

Sanctification (obedience) in this age, can only come from a foundation of justification based solely upon the righteousness of Christ and His work of obedience at the cross, otherwise it is self-wrought and works against HolySpirit, and may result in the necessity for suffering and correction in the next age.
 

RichardBurger

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Hence, my solution would be to learn obedience through the things you
suffer which is sanctification and never give up on God. God knows
exactly what you are going through and he is on your side in the midst
of your trials. And please, don't mix justification with santification because
you will never be able to rightly divide the word of truth.

Wide is the gate that leads to destruction and many will go into the grave
without experiencing the immortality in the first harvest. You have to ask
yourself, do I want to press into the high calling of God or will I be satisfied
with a low calling? It's left up to you.



Logabe



Sorry logabe but I have already been washed, sanctified, and justified by the Holy Spirit. It is a done deal. I didn't do it by my works, It was acomplished by the Holy Spirit.
1 Corinthians 6:11
11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
NKJV

To you obedience is in self-righteously saying you keep the commandments of Jesus. But you don't. Jesus told those who were under the law that they did not keep it. Neither do you. You just think you do and that makes you self-righteous.

Jesus sent Paul with the gospel of grace and a person is obedient when they believe it. You don't believe it because you are preaching law, not grace and that makes you disobedient..

Looks to me that the reason you took issue with me is so you could attach your rant to my thread. You will not admit that I had said the same thing that Jesus said,

Jesus said: Matthew 7:13-14
13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
NKJV

I said: "One thing we know is that it is not the many that find the truth, it is the few."

I said the same thing Jesus said in different words, so, If I have a persecution complex according to you then so did Jesus.

So much for your label that I have a persecution complex. Go play your game someplace else.

Jesus paid for a plan of salvation that saves sinners, not the self-righteous by their own works.
 

Lively Stone

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Jesus paid for a plan of salvation that saves sinners, not the self-righteous by their own works.

Amen! I have encountered so many people online who beleive that when a Christian sins, theya re instantly of the devil and lose their salvation. That belief makes us all the providers of our own salvation by works---which is totally against God's plan of salvation!

.
 

logabe

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Good post Logabe, Christ, Himself had to learn obedience through suffering. Here are a couple of other scriptures that compliment/support your post.

8 Even though Jesus was God’s Son, he learned obedience from the things he suffered.9 In this way, God qualified him as a perfect High Priest, and he became the source of eternal salvation for all those who obey him.10 And God designated him to be a High Priest in the order of Melchizedek.
Heb 5:8-10 (NLT)

7 I once thought these things were valuable, but now I consider them worthless because of what Christ has done.8 Yes, everything else is worthless when compared with the infinite value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have discarded everything else, counting it all as garbage, so that I could gain Christ9 and become one with him. I no longer count on my own righteousness through obeying the law; rather, I become righteous through faith in Christ. For God’s way of making us right with himself depends on faith.10 I want to know Christ and experience the mighty power that raised him from the dead. I want to suffer with him, sharing in his death,11 so that one way or another I will experience the resurrection from the dead!
Phil 3:7-11 (NLT)


Sanctification (obedience) in this age, can only come from a foundation of justification based solely upon the righteousness of Christ and His work of obedience at the cross
, otherwise it is self-wrought and works against HolySpirit, and may result in the necessity for suffering and correction in the next age.

Exactly my point jiggyfly... Good post!

Logabe
 

logabe

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Sorry logabe but I have already been washed, sanctified, and justified by the Holy Spirit. It is a done deal. I didn't do it by my works, It was acomplished by the Holy Spirit.
1 Corinthians 6:11
11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
NKJV

To you obedience is in self-righteously saying you keep the commandments of Jesus. But you don't. Jesus told those who were under the law that they did not keep it. Neither do you. You just think you do and that makes you self-righteous.

Jesus sent Paul with the gospel of grace and a person is obedient when they believe it. You don't believe it because you are preaching law, not grace and that makes you disobedient..

Looks to me that the reason you took issue with me is so you could attach your rant to my thread. You will not admit that I had said the same thing that Jesus said,

Jesus said: Matthew 7:13-14
13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
NKJV

I said: "One thing we know is that it is not the many that find the truth, it is the few."

I said the same thing Jesus said in different words, so, If I have a persecution complex according to you then so did Jesus.

So much for your label that I have a persecution complex. Go play your game someplace else.

Jesus paid for a plan of salvation that saves sinners,
not the self-righteous by their own works.


Richard, I have already said the works being done within us is by the Spirit. Through
faith we do the works of Christ and that faith will be tested in order for it to grow. The
plan of God is for Christians to learn how to become obedient in this age of testing. If
we don't learn these lessons, we will miss out on our inheritance just as Esau gave up
his birthright by being bitter toward the plan of God.

The reason why I said wide is the gate and few will find the truth is because most people
don't like the plan of God or they don't take time to understand it. 1st Peter 5:10 says,

10 But the God of all grace, who has called us unto his eternal
glory by Christ Jesus, after that you have suffered a while, make
you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

Let's jump back a few verses and see why we should suffer.

4 And when the chief Shepard shall appear, you shall receive a
crown of glory that fadeth not away.

So in order to receive this crown that Peter is talking about, there is something we as
individuals must do. What is it Peter?

6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that
he may exalt you in due time.

Peter is talking to people that love God and he is teaching them what they should do
in order to mature as a son of God. In Colossians 1:23, watch what Paul says to these
people who love God,

23 If you continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not
moved away from the hope of the gospel, which you have heard,
and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven;
whereof I Paul am made a minister.

My point is... these people had been washed, sanctified, and justified in the name of
the Lord. According to Paul, they have to continue working out their own salvation
with fear and trembling. According to you Richard, we already got it. What is Paul
talking about? 1st Timothy 4:16 says,

16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them:
for in doing this thou shall both save thyself, and them that hear
thee.

What did Jesus have to say about this? John 8:31-32,

31 Then said Jesus to those Jews that believed on him, if you
continue in my word, then are you my disciples indeed;
32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you
free.

At some point in our growth we come to understand God is working inside of us
in order to save our soul through regeneration. As I have said many times in the
past that Pentecost is for saving your soul. Passover is for saving your spirit and
that is where most of us don't rightly divide the truth.

When the soon-coming Feast of Trumpets is fulfilled, and the overcoming dead
are raised, many Church leaders will be greatly surprised to find that they were
not called to meet the Lord in the air. In fact, this will precipitate a time of great
repentance, once the reality hits them.

Yet all is not lost. Only the greatest reward will be lost, which has to do with
authority and reigning with Him. This is a reward that goes beyond salvation
itself. All of the believers will be saved, but not all will rule the nations with Christ.
Further, they will have to wait for another thousand years to receive their immortal
bodies.

They will surely be saved, but they will not receive the "better resurrection"
(Heb.11:35) of the overcomers. It is for this reason that Paul disciplined himself,
so that in the end, he would not be disqualified (1 Cor. 9:27). Paul did not doubt his
salvation, but he remained unsure of being qualified as an overcomer. Only at the
end of his life did he know that he had endured to the end and would receive the
"crown of righteousness" (2 Tim. 4:7, 8).

When Christians learn the revelation of the feast days, they can then easily see
the difference between a Passover believer who is justified by faith, a Pentecostal
believer who is sanctified by the Spirit, and a Tabernacles believer who will be
glorified to reign with Him.

This is the path toward the full salvation of spirit, soul, and body (1 Thess. 5:23).
Passover saves your spirit; Pentecost saves your soul; and Tabernacles saves
your body. We call it Justification, Sanctification, and Glorification (or the redemption
of your body—Rom. 8:23).

Our problem is our soul and at Pentecost just as the Israelites struggled in their
trials, we also struggle in the regeneration of our souls.



Logabe
 

Justinian 1

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No one has represented God in any such way, here. Prove how you come to such a conclusion.
No one has represented it voluntarily. Unless you think about it, and you might not, you will never come to the realization of what you are doing. Every minute that you are not preaching, someone just went to hell for all eternity and people will continue to every time you go to sleep. God would never make it that way. He is a God of love. People have gone insane when they actually think about what they believe about hell.
 

RichardBurger

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Richard, I have already said the works --------

Logabe

Again, a person is obedient when they believe God, period.

In this age of grace a person is obedient when they believe, have faith in, trust in, confidence in, the shed blood of Jesus on the cross to reconcile them to God.

We are no longer under the law so being obedient to laws (works) will not reconcile anyone to God.

According to the scriptures I quoted, (1 Corinthians 6:11 ) a child of God has already been washed, sanctified, and justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

NKJV

I believe that to mean a person has been born of God by the Holy Spirit and it is not by progressive works performed by sinful man.

In other words, and more direct, I have been (past tense) made a child of God by a work of God on the cross and not of myself least I should boast as others seem to do on this forum.

Now that is how I see the salvation provided by God.

Now if all the others want to write about is their good works then I will bow out since I see that as boasting.
 

Lively Stone

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No one has represented it voluntarily. Unless you think about it, and you might not, you will never come to the realization of what you are doing. Every minute that you are not preaching, someone just went to hell for all eternity and people will continue to every time you go to sleep. God would never make it that way. He is a God of love. People have gone insane when they actually think about what they believe about hell.

While God IS LOVE, He is also the JUST JUDGE. If people go insane thinking about hell, they can repent of their sins and know they are citizens of heaven.
 

aspen

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While God IS LOVE, He is also the JUST JUDGE. If people go insane thinking about hell, they can repent of their sins and know they are citizens of heaven.

Why is God's love and His Justice always presented as separate characteristics? As if He is creating a recipe! I can just picture it, '2 parts love, one part justice! 3 parts justice, one part love!'
 

Lively Stone

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Why is God's love and His Justice always presented as separate characteristics? As if He is creating a recipe! I can just picture it, '2 parts love, one part justice! 3 parts justice, one part love!'

God has MANY facets to His character. He IS Love, but perfect justice is only one trait of His personality. One does not preclude another. He also has perfect wrath, and supreme mercy, among countless characteristics.
 

Justinian 1

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Why is God's love and His Justice always presented as separate characteristics? As if He is creating a recipe! I can just picture it, '2 parts love, one part justice! 3 parts justice, one part love!'
A great question. I do not believe that a just God is really a loving God. The two just dont fit together in any logical or moral way. I believe that God is simply a perfect, loving God who gives people infinite amount of chances. Jesus did say that we must forgive 77 times 77 times. If God doesnt do that, then he is being hypocritical, which is certainly what god is not.