Difference between Catholic and Protestant.

michaelvpardo said:

You're arguing logical fallacies. The city, like the tabernacle of God comes down to men. But you're wrong about Heaven anyway. Scripture says we'll judge angels, and that God sees even angels as impure in His sight.
Your theology is unbiblical. What a shock.

Click to expand...

YOUR understanding of Scripture is woefully lacking.

First of all – Job is largely ALLEGORICAL as is much of the language used in Job.

Secondly – if the Heavenly Jerusalem is “undefiled” – then,
- Either the Bible had contradicted itself in Job 15:15
OR
- YOU simply don’t understand that some of it is literal and some of it is allegorical.

After conversing with you – my guess is the LATTER . . .

michaelvpardo said:

I forgive you, but I know the Lord very well and you could too. Just place your trust in the only God and Savior, believe in His resurrection, and ask for His Spirit.

Click to expand...

I already do because I belong to His Church – who taught all of this to the world (Matt. 28:19-20).

YOU wouldn’t have a clue about Jesus had it NOT been for the Catholic Church . . .

BreadOfLife said:

YOUR understanding of Scripture is woefully lacking.

First of all – Job is largely ALLEGORICAL as is much of the language used in Job.

Secondly – if the Heavenly Jerusalem is “undefiled” – then,
- Either the Bible had contradicted itself in Job 15:15
OR
- YOU simply don’t understand that some of it is literal and some of it is allegorical.

After conversing with you – my guess is the LATTER . . .

Click to expand...

Seeing as I haven't mentioned Job or quoted the book, I'd say that you are in need of a sound mind, but this is available in Christ Jesus. Turn from false religion and the deception of greedy men to the lover of your soul. Submit to your only Sovereign Lord and pray for His Spirit and He will lift the veil from your eyes and deliver you from the doctrines of men.

BreadOfLife said:

I already do because I belong to His Church – who taught all of this to the world (Matt. 28:19-20).

YOU wouldn’t have a clue about Jesus had it NOT been for the Catholic Church . . .

Click to expand...

Yes, the mystery of iniquity.

michaelvpardo said:

Seeing as I haven't mentioned Job or quoted the book, I'd say that you are in need of a sound mind, but this is available in Christ Jesus. Turn from false religion and the deception of greedy men to the lover of your soul. Submit to your only Sovereign Lord and pray for His Spirit and He will lift the veil from your eyes and deliver you from the doctrines of men.

Click to expand...

Ummmmm, YOU posted:
“Scripture says we'll judge angels, and that GOD SEES EVEN ANGELS AS IMPURE IN HIS SIGHT.”

I assumed you knew that your out-of-context reference was from the Book of Job – but I guess I assumed too much.
Why am I NOT surprised?

Your dishonesty is only outdone by your ignorance . . .

michaelvpardo said:

Yes, the mystery of iniquity.

Click to expand...

Funny – I’ve never heard of God’s grace being described as “iniquity” . . .

BreadOfLife said:

Ummmmm, YOU posted:
“Scripture says we'll judge angels, and that GOD SEES EVEN ANGELS AS IMPURE IN HIS SIGHT.”

I assumed you knew that your out-of-context reference was from the Book of Job – but I guess I assumed too much.
Why am I NOT surprised?

Your dishonesty is only outdone by your ignorance . . .

Click to expand...

Paul said that we would judge angels and Isaiah tells us about the fall of the annointed Cherub.

But let's just clinch my argument with this:
"12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places."
Ephesians 6:12

Somebody must have forgotten to tell those rulers in the heavenly places that they're supposed to be pure. Maybe the Pope should get right on that.

It's been fun, but just a waste of time with someone Bereft Of Logic. Keep up the great work, you're definitely helping spread the gospel (by contrast.)

Dropship said:

What a dynamic duo Liz and her dad Henry VIII were, they broke that pope bloke's grip on England once and for all..

Click to expand...

theefaith said:

Now we are praising apostasy and rebellion against Christ and his holy church!
Also praising the murder virgin f true Christians
it is in prophecy England will return to the one true fold of Christ

Click to expand...

I'm english and if ever I start praying to Jesus's mum, or confessing to a priest in a box, or believe hell has a swing door, or be against women as clergy, or taking orders from that pope bloke in Rome, you can call me Mary Poppins..

michaelvpardo said:

Yes, the mystery of iniquity.

Click to expand...

Another stupid insult. The Catholic Church is not the mystery of iniquity. You need to stop accusing Jesus of lying and stop borrowing from the false teachings of the Seventh Day Adventists, Jehovah's Witlesses, Christadelphians and a long list of Made-In-America cults; you demonize the historic Church the same way they do. This destroys your claim to be neutral or objective. Too often, well meaning non-denominationals get suckered into believing the lies of Dave Hunt, Jack Chick, James White, Matt Slick; legions of professional liars. Those who stand for nothing will fall for anything.
Anti-Catholicism Index Page

The "mystery of iniquity" phrase (found only in the KJV) is taken from 2 Thessalonians 2:7. The first half of chapter 2 concerns the Second Coming, there is no mention of any church.

Matt. 16:18 – Jesus promises the gates of Hades would never prevail against the Church. This requires that the Church teach infallibly. If the Church did not have the gift of infallibility, the gates of Hades and error would prevail. Also, since the Catholic Church was the only Church that existed up until the Reformation, those who follow the Protestant reformers call Christ a liar by saying that Hades did prevail.

You need to stop accusing Jesus of lying.

John 11:51-52 – some non-Catholics argue that sinners cannot have the power to teach infallibly. But in this verse, God allows Caiaphas to prophesy infallibly, even though he was evil and plotted Jesus’ death. God allows sinners to teach infallibly, just as He allows sinners to become saints. As a loving Father, He exalts His children, and is bound by His own justice to give His children a mechanism to know truth from error.

This forces you to change the meaning of "infallible" into a false premise.

Matt. 16:19 – for Jesus to give Peter and the apostles, mere human beings, the authority to bind in heaven what they bound on earth requires infallibility. This is a gift of the Holy Spirit and has nothing to do with the holiness of the person receiving the gift.

Matt. 18:17-18 – the Church (not Scripture) is the final authority on questions of the faith. This demands infallibility when teaching the faith. She must be prevented from teaching error in order to lead her members to the fullness of salvation.

Matt. 28:20 – Jesus promises that He will be with the Church always. Jesus’ presence in the Church assures infallible teaching on faith and morals. With Jesus present, we can never be deceived.
The Biblical Church - Scripture Catholic

You need to stop accusing Jesus of lying.

Dropship said:

You've "explained" zilch mate, you've simply fired off a big blunderbuss blast of assorted convoluted verses like a tangled furball..

Click to expand...

BreadOfLife said:

And an intelligent person would be able to DEBINK those “convoluted verses”.
But, I would NEVER accuse you of being intelligent . . .

Click to expand...

Mate, Jesus told his disciples- "This is how you should pray: 'Our Father which art in heaven...'",
so if ever I disobey him and start praying to his mum instead, you can gladly measure me up for a straitjacket..

Dropship said:

I'm english and if ever I start praying to Jesus's mum, or confessing to a priest in a box, or believe hell has a swing door, or be against women as clergy, or taking orders from that pope bloke in Rome, you can call me Mary Poppins..

Click to expand...

only a man can be a father (priest)
Don’t know what swinging door means

Dropship said:

I'm english and if ever I start praying to Jesus's mum, or confessing to a priest in a box, or believe hell has a swing door, or be against women as clergy, or taking orders from that pope bloke in Rome, you can call me Mary Poppins..

Click to expand...

you’re saying Christ is not king???

Dropship said:

I'm english and if ever I start praying to Jesus's mum, or confessing to a priest in a box, or believe hell has a swing door, or be against women as clergy, or taking orders from that pope bloke in Rome, you can call me Mary Poppins..

Click to expand...

There are not over a hundred people in the United States who hate the Catholic Church. There are millions, however, who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church — which is, of course, quite a different thing.

These millions can hardly be blamed for hating Catholics because Catholics “adore statues”; because they “put the Blessed Mother on the same level with God”; because they say “indulgence is a permission to commit sin”; because the Pope “is a Fascist”; because the “Church is the defender of Capitalism.” If the Church taught or believed any one of these things it should be hated, but the fact is that the Church does not believe nor teach any one of them. It follows then that the hatred of the millions is directed against error and not against truth.

As a matter of fact, if we Catholics believed all of the untruths and lies which were said against the Church, we probably would hate the Church a thousand times more than they do.

If I were not a Catholic, and were looking for the true Church in the world today, I would look for the one Church which did not get along well with the world; in other words, I would look for the Church which the world hates…
Look for the Church that is hated by the world, as Christ was hated by the world.
Look for the Church which is accused of being behind the times, as Our Lord was accused of being ignorant and never having learned.
Look for the Church which men sneer at as socially inferior, as they sneered at Our Lord because He came from Nazareth.
Look for the Church which is accused of having a devil, as Our Lord was accused of being possessed by Beelzebub, the Prince of Devils.
Look for the Church which, in seasons of bigotry, men say must be destroyed in the name of God as men crucified Christ and thought they had done a service to God.
Look for the Church which the world rejects because it claims it is infallible, as Pilate rejected Christ because He called Himself the Truth.
Look for the Church which is rejected by the world as Our Lord was rejected by men…
If then, the hatred of the Church is founded on erroneous beliefs, it follows that basic need of the day is instruction. Love depends on knowledge for we cannot aspire nor desire the unknown. Our great country is filled with what might be called marginal Christians, i.e., those who live on the fringe of religion and who are descendants of Christian living parents, but who now are Christians only in name. They retain a few of its ideals out of indolence and force of habit; they knew the glorious history of Christianity only through certain emasculated forms of it, which have married the spirit of the age and are now dying with it. Of Catholicism and its sacraments, its pardon, its grace, its certitude and its peace, they know nothing except a few inherited prejudices. And yet they are good people who want to do the right thing, but who have no definite philosophy concerning it.

They educate their children without religion, and yet they resent the compromising morals of their children. They would be angry if you told them they were not Christian, and yet they do not believe that Christ is God. They resent being called pagans and yet they never take a practical cognizance of the existence of God. There is only one thing of which they are certain and that is that things are not right as they are. It is just that single certitude which makes them what might be called the great “potentials,” for they are ready to be pulled in either of two directions. Within a short time they must take sides; they must either gather with Christ or they must scatter; they must either be with Him or against Him; they must either be on the cross as other Christs, or under it as other executioners. Which way will these marginal Christians tend?…

Only this much is certain. Being human and having hearts they want more than class struggle and economics; they want Life, they want Truth, and they want Love. In a word, they want Christ. It is to these millions who believe wrong things about the Church and to these marginal Christians, that this little book is sent. It is not to prove that they are “wrong”; it is not to prove that we are “right”; it is merely to present the truth in order that the truth may conquer through the grace of God.”

Father Fulton Sheen and the Millions Who Hate the Catholic Church

Dropship said:

Mate, Jesus told his disciples- "This is how you should pray: 'Our Father which art in heaven...'",
so if ever I disobey him and start praying to his mum instead, you can gladly measure me up for a straitjacket..

Click to expand...

The Lord’s Prayer can be found in Matt. 6:9-13.
In the EIGHT verses PRIOR to this, Jesus is talking about communicating with the FATHER. He is teaching them how to pray to the FATHER.

YOUR objection to all other prayer is idiotic because the CONTEXT here is communication with the FATHER only.

As I’ve schooled you TWICE now, “Pray” simply means “ASK”. Prayer as “worship” is a SECONDARY definition. It is legal, juridical language that is used in police reports and court documents.
ONE more time, Einstein . . .

Merriam-Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary:
Full Definition of pray
transitive verb
1: entreat, implore —often used as a function word in introducing a question, request, or plea<pray be careful>
2: to get or bring by praying
intransitive verb
1: to make a request in a humble manner
2: to address God or a god with adoration, confession, supplication, or thanksgiving

Acts 27:34 - KJV
"Wherefore I PRAY you to take some meat: for this is for your health: for there shall not an hair fall from the head of any of you".[/QUOTE]

michaelvpardo said:

Paul said that we would judge angels and Isaiah tells us about the fall of the annointed Cherub.

But let's just clinch my argument with this:
"12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places."
Ephesians 6:12

Somebody must have forgotten to tell those rulers in the heavenly places that they're supposed to be pure. Maybe the Pope should get right on that.

It's been fun, but just a waste of time with someone Bereft Of Logic. Keep up the great work, you're definitely helping spread the gospel (by contrast.)

Click to expand...

Which has absolutely NOTHING to do with Rev. 21:27.
One is about spiritual warfare – the other is about the Bride of Christ.

You’re getting more and more confused.

Once again – if you can believe that a wooden box made by human hands is MORE undefiled and holy than God’s eternal dwelling place – then your confusion may have run TOO DEEP for me to reach . . .

Illuminator said:

Another stupid insult. The Catholic Church is not the mystery of iniquity. You need to stop accusing Jesus of lying and stop borrowing from the false teachings of the Seventh Day Adventists, Jehovah's Witlesses, Christadelphians and a long list of Made-In-America cults; you demonize the historic Church the same way they do. This destroys your claim to be neutral or objective. Too often, well meaning non-denominationals get suckered into believing the lies of Dave Hunt, Jack Chick, James White, Matt Slick; legions of professional liars. Those who stand for nothing will fall for anything.
Anti-Catholicism Index Page

The "mystery of iniquity" phrase (found only in the KJV) is taken from 2 Thessalonians 2:7. The first half of chapter 2 concerns the Second Coming, there is no mention of any church.

Matt. 16:18 – Jesus promises the gates of Hades would never prevail against the Church. This requires that the Church teach infallibly. If the Church did not have the gift of infallibility, the gates of Hades and error would prevail. Also, since the Catholic Church was the only Church that existed up until the Reformation, those who follow the Protestant reformers call Christ a liar by saying that Hades did prevail.

You need to stop accusing Jesus of lying.

John 11:51-52 – some non-Catholics argue that sinners cannot have the power to teach infallibly. But in this verse, God allows Caiaphas to prophesy infallibly, even though he was evil and plotted Jesus’ death. God allows sinners to teach infallibly, just as He allows sinners to become saints. As a loving Father, He exalts His children, and is bound by His own justice to give His children a mechanism to know truth from error.

This forces you to change the meaning of "infallible" into a false premise.

Matt. 16:19 – for Jesus to give Peter and the apostles, mere human beings, the authority to bind in heaven what they bound on earth requires infallibility. This is a gift of the Holy Spirit and has nothing to do with the holiness of the person receiving the gift.

Matt. 18:17-18 – the Church (not Scripture) is the final authority on questions of the faith. This demands infallibility when teaching the faith. She must be prevented from teaching error in order to lead her members to the fullness of salvation.

Matt. 28:20 – Jesus promises that He will be with the Church always. Jesus’ presence in the Church assures infallible teaching on faith and morals. With Jesus present, we can never be deceived.
The Biblical Church - Scripture Catholic

You need to stop accusing Jesus of lying.

Click to expand...

I've never said anything to contradict the Lord Jesus Christ, not one word. You however have broken the commandment and born false witness. Good luck with that.

BreadOfLife said:

Which has absolutely NOTHING to do with Rev. 21:27.
One is about spiritual warfare – the other is about the Bride of Christ.

You’re getting more and more confused.

Once again – if you can believe that a wooden box made by human hands is MORE undefiled and holy than God’s eternal dwelling place – then your confusion may have run TOO DEEP for me to reach . . .

Click to expand...

Bereft Of Logic.
Bereft Of Logic.
You see, no matter how many ways I write it, the result is always the same.
When I want a lesson in insanity, you'll be the first person I ask.