Difference between Catholic and Protestant.

Taken said:

Did my statement say YOU SHOULD do anything? Uh no.
Well you are, but in this post you are being “ignorant”. Pretending you are commenting on something, I never said!

Click to expand...

Sooooo, you WEREN’T trying to convince me that YOU were right and 2000 years of the most brilliant Scripture and linguistic scholars were wrong?

Then WHY bother posting your manure-fillef rant?

Marymog said:

Sooooo braklite your statement makes no sense. The men I mentioned, Clement, Polycarp and Ignatius were students of the Apostles. They walked and talked with the Apostles. They had the opportunity to ask clarifying questions to the Apostles about the things they wrote and said. Clements letters, back in the early 2nd century, were treated as Scripture. Equivalent to letters from the Apostles. Those are the men The Church relies on! What evidence do you have that those 3 men were NOT guided by the Holy Spirit? You have ZERO evidence and what you have suggested is your OPINION!

Now, compare those men to the men YOU FOLLOW from the Protestant Revolution that has divided Christianity for the last 500 years. Your Protestant men from the 16th century rely on their personal opinions (they all disagreed with each other) when interpreting the "Scriptural Text" to "teach and induct members/congregates".

Keeping it real....Mary

Click to expand...

In other words Brakelite, you are correct. I don't have a relationship with Jesus or His holy Spirit, I rely on fallible sinful man to lead me to heaven.
Just keeping it real.

BreadOfLife said:

Soooo, the linguists at Strong’s are in “total error” – so I should just take YOUR word for it.
The uneducated opinion of an ignorant poster on an obscure little online forum?
You’re not only ignorant – you’re arrogant. So, when the EXPERTS prove you wrong – THEY are wrong – is that it??

Your repeated argument that the Pharisees couldn’t fully understand what Jesus was saying on the cross is your MOST desperate and moronic. Were YOU there? Did you hear Jesus shout out “Eli, Eli, Lama sabachthani” is a CLEAR voice?

Are you SURE that He wasn’t in such pain that it may have come out somewhat garbled? The Bible says He shouted out in a loud voice – it DOESN’T say that He spoke in a CLEAR voice.
I know that when I’m in pain – my wife RARELY understands what I’m shouting about.

With regard to your argument involving OT verses like Dan 2:4, 2 kings 18:26, Isa_36:11, etc. - the word “Syriack” is Old English from the KJV. In the HEBREW text, however, the word used here is ארמית which translates as “ARAMAIC”:
ארמית - 'Aramiyth
Pronunciation: ar-aw-meeth'
Definition: Aramaic = "language" 1) the language of Aram, Aramaic
feminine of 761; (only adverbial)in Aramean:-in the Syrian language (tongue), in Syriac.
see HEBREW for 0761

As for the NT verses like Acts 21:40, Acts22:2, Acts 26:14, etc. – this is translated in the Greek as “heb-rah-is'”. This goes back to what I explained to you before. That it is talking about the “Chaldee Hebrew” and NOT the Hebrew in which the OT was written. Chanldee is another name for ARAMAIC.

You are arguing from a point of ignorance here because, although you fancy yourself as a linguist – you AIN’T one . . .

Click to expand...

And of course you are a linguist and anyone disagreeing with you is psychotic, arrogant, and ignorant.

BreadOfLife said:

Ignatius of Antioch
Follow your bishop, every one of you, as obediently as Jesus Christ followed the Father. Obey your clergy too as you would the apostles; give your deacons the same reverence that you would to a command of God. Make sure that no step affecting the Church is ever taken by anyone without the bishop’s sanction. The sole Eucharist you should consider valid is one that is celebrated by the bishop himself, or by some person authorized by him. Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as, wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the Catholic Church (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 107]).

Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God. . . . They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. (Letter to the Smyrnaeans 6:2-7:1 [A.D. 107]).

This sounds nothing – absolutely NTHING like YOUR SDA sect,

Click to expand...

As I said. Very early there were heretics who removed Christ as being Head of the church and replaced Him with vicarious filli dei. Church authority replaced Christ's authority, and the church began to demand that men listen to men, rather than listen to Jesus through His Spirit. Relational salvation through Jesus was circumvented by power hungry bishops and prelates.
You are correct. The religion of Ignatius is nothing like that of the Seventh Day Adventist church. And praise God for that. I am grateful that Jesus, by His grace and mercy, led me out of your church at the age of 24 and began to teach me Truth.

BreadOfLife said:

As for the non-Catholic factions - what makes their teachings bad is that they strayed from the Church’s teachings – from Scripture and Sacred Tradition.

Click to expand...

Again, you confirm my entire ethos... Those who refuse to surrender to man made traditions and trust in the word of God for instruction in righteousness, are heretics. Not because they are wrong in their doctrine, but because they resist the authority of your Pope. And again, praise God for that for without independent thought and individualism, heaven would be empty.

Marymog said:

Your men have taught you that "supremacy" died when the last Apostle died. Your men lied to you.

Click to expand...

Isn't that how Jesus came to Earth to establish the supremacy of the RCC (or not to)?

Yet, no actual Scripture stating that. Too bad.

Brakelite said:

You are correct. The religion of Ignatius is nothing like that of the Seventh Day Adventist church. And praise God for that. I am grateful that Jesus, by His grace and mercy, led me out of your church at the age of 24 and began to teach me Truth.

Click to expand...

The Anglican J.B. Lightfoot, no great fan of Catholic (whom he terms “Romanists”) nevertheless concedes that

• “Throughout the thirteen letters the same doctrines are maintained,
• the same heresies assailed,
• and the same theological terms employed.

In this respect no difference can be traced between the two sets of epistles.” So while there may have been theological reasons (responding to the Apollinarian or Arian heresies) for the forgery of the additional 6 letters, nothing theological (between Catholics and Protestants) turns on these spurious letters. Anything that Protestants would object to in the six false letters is also found in the seven genuine letters.

In other words, the fact that the Middle Recension is authentic should give radical anti-Catholics serious pause, since it disproves SDA theories about the nature of the early Church.

How Do We Know Ignatius’ Letters are Genuine? – Shameless Popery

Brakelite said:

You are correct. The religion of Ignatius is nothing like that of the Seventh Day Adventist church

Click to expand...

Just more evidence that the SDA has no connection to the Church Jesus founded through the apostles..

Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that the antichrist was coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. Thus we know this is the last hour.

They went out from us, but they were not really of our number; if they had been, they would have remained with us. Their desertion shows that none of them was of our number.

Pax et Bonum

Brokelight said: "You are correct. The religion of Ignatius is nothing like that of the Seventh Day Adventist church."

Chapter 12. Praise of the Ephesians
I know both who I am, and to whom I write. I am a condemned man, you have been the objects of mercy; I am subject to danger, you are established in safety. You are the persons through whom those pass that are cut off for the sake of God. You are initiated into the mysteries of the Gospel with Paul, the holy, the martyred, the deservedly most happy, at whose feet may I be found, when I shall attain to God; who in all his Epistles makes mention of you in Christ Jesus.

Chapter 14. Exhortations to faith and love
None of these things is hid from you, if you perfectly possess that faith and love towards Christ Jesus 1 Timothy 1:14 which are the beginning and the end of life. For the beginning is faith, and the end is love. 1 Timothy 1:5 Now these two, being inseparably connected together, are of God, while all other things which are requisite for a holy life follow after them. No man [truly] making a profession of faith sins; 1 John 3:7 nor does he that possesses love hate any one. The tree is made manifest by its fruit; Matthew 12:33 so those that profess themselves to be Christians shall be recognised by their conduct. For there is not now a demand for mere profession, but that a man be found continuing in the power of faith to the end.
CHURCH FATHERS: Epistle to the Ephesians (St. Ignatius)

You are correct, Breaklight; the religion of Ignatius is nothing like that of the Seventh Day Adventist church.

Wrangler said:

Isn't that how Jesus came to Earth to establish the supremacy of the RCC (or not to)?

Yet, no actual Scripture stating that. Too bad.

Click to expand...

You are soooooo cute Wrangler. I just LOVE how you partially quote me so you can make a cute little quip.

There is no actual Scripture that states that you and your ilk have supremacy either kiddo. So now we are back to square one and I have addressed your cute little quip.

I would LOVE it even more if you were serious for once and addressed what I said: Scripture makes it clear that Christ established The Church, and he chose 12 men to help him establish The Church. Those men had "supremacy" after he was crucified (Luke 10:16) and they enforced that "supremacy" (Acts 15).

Is that a factual statement or not?

Patient Mary

Brakelite said:

I don't have a relationship with Jesus or His holy Spirit, I rely on fallible sinful man to lead me to heaven.

Just keeping it real.

Click to expand...

Dear Brakelite,

I know you don't have a relationship with Jesus, or His holy Spirit and you rely on fallible sinful Protestant men to lead you to heaven. But we have already established that.

What I would really like is if you would answer my questions so we can have a discussion: What evidence do you have that those 3 men were NOT guided by the Holy Spirit?

Taken said:

What a ridiculous statement!

Click to expand...

Lol...you crack me up Taken. You partially quote someone and then call it a "ridiculous statement" even though you didn't quote the entire statement :smlhmm:

How about addressing what I said: Is it true or not when someone stands firm upon what they believe is sound biblical doctrine you tell them they are wrong because YOU are always right?

Marymog said:

Lol....Who's lost? These heathens from Scripture?

Daniel 3:52-90, Psalms 136, Mark 11:9

And last but not least: Day and night without ceasing they sing, “Holy, holy, holy, the Lord God the Almighty, who was and is and is to come.”

Click to expand...

Good try, but the Psalms aren't prayer, they're poetry.
Mark 11:9 isn't prayer, it's praise.
And your last quote isn't prayer either, you conveniently left out chapter and verse. This phrase is praise and it's pronounced in heaven, and not by men, but by the four .iving creatures surrounding the throne of God.
Revelation 4:8
You do understand that God condemns deceitfulness, right?

michaelvpardo said:

Good try, but the Psalms aren't prayer, they're poetry.
Mark 11:9 isn't prayer, it's praise.
And your last quote isn't prayer either, you conveniently left out chapter and verse. This phrase is praise and it's pronounced in heaven, and not by men, but by the four .iving creatures surrounding the throne of God.
Revelation 4:8
You do understand that God condemns deceitfulness, right?

Click to expand...

Hey Michaelpardo. Thanks for your opinion.

When you take the time to actually read Psalms 136 you will notice it is a thanksgiving to God. According to the Jews, the Book of Psalms is an ancient anthology of poetic prayers originally written in Hebrew.
The Great Hallel – The Everyday Prayer
(The Book of Psalms | My Jewish Learning)


When you read Mark 11:9 you might notice the word "Hosanna". The Hebrew word, “hoshi’a na,” is translated in Greek as “(h)osanna.” In English, we known it as “hosanna.” The original intent of the bible is “Save!” It is viewed as a plea for help. When you plea for help you are praying.
Hosanna - Wikipedia Hosanna Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster
Strong's Greek: 5614. ὡσαννά (hósanna) -- save, we pray (biblehub.com)


I will let you figure out Revelation 4:8 on your own. I suggest you read ALL of Revelations 4 and you will see that it is, in fact, a prayer.

Yes, I understand that God condemns deceitfulness. I have read many of your posts. I am now in fear of your soul.

None the less.... Thank you for your opinion......Mary

Marymog said:

Hey Michaelpardo. Thanks for your opinion.

When you take the time to actually read Psalms 136 you will notice it is a thanksgiving to God. According to the Jews, the Book of Psalms is an ancient anthology of poetic prayers originally written in Hebrew.
The Great Hallel – The Everyday Prayer
(The Book of Psalms | My Jewish Learning)


When you read Mark 11:9 you might notice the word "Hosanna". The Hebrew word, “hoshi’a na,” is translated in Greek as “(h)osanna.” In English, we known it as “hosanna.” The original intent of the bible is “Save!” It is viewed as a plea for help. When you plea for help you are praying.
Hosanna - Wikipedia Hosanna Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster
Strong's Greek: 5614. ὡσαννά (hósanna) -- save, we pray (biblehub.com)


I will let you figure out Revelation 4:8 on your own. I suggest you read ALL of Revelations 4 and you will see that it is, in fact, a prayer.

Yes, I understand that God condemns deceitfulness. I have read many of your posts. I am now in fear of your soul.

None the less.... Thank you for your opinion......Mary

Click to expand...

Of course you would reference the opinion of Jews and not the saints. The Jews rejected Christ and do not possess His Spirit, nor can they until they recognize the person of our Lord and enter into His covenant of peace through the propitiation in His blood.
You too could receive the Lord, but to do this you must lay down your false teachings and enter into His covenant, not by dead ritual, not by imaginary sacrament, but by trusting the sufficiently of our Lord's sacrifice to have paid the price of all your sin, once and for all time.
Pray for wisdom, pray for His Spirit, and turn from idolatry to a knowledge of the truth.

“I am the LORD, that is My name;
I will not give My glory to another,
Nor My praise to graven images"
Isaiah 42:8

Marymog said:

There is no actual Scripture that states that you and your ilk have supremacy either kiddo

Click to expand...

You do love to invoke the mocking spirit with your constant use of 'kiddo.' Do you suppose it is endearing?

Guess what? Protestants don't want supremacy over God's children. We don't desire usurping Christ's role on Earth as being our head.

Marymog said:

I would LOVE it even more if you were serious for once and addressed what I said: Scripture makes it clear that Christ established The Church, and he chose 12 men to help him establish The Church. Those men had "supremacy" after he was crucified (Luke 10:16) and they enforced that "supremacy" (Acts 15).

Is that a factual statement or not?

Click to expand...

Not as you define the church. The church is not the RCC but the body of believers.

michaelvpardo said:

Of course you would reference the opinion of Jews and not the saints.

Click to expand...

You have no 2nd or 3rd century "saints" because you can't name any.

You too could receive the Lord, but to do this you must lay down your false teachings

Click to expand...

Over our dead bodies. "false teachings" is always asserted, never proven with any intellectual rigor. The "false teachings" charge amounts to mindless carnival barking. It's a mindset locked into 16th century politics. You're so critical of church teachings yet you avoid RECENT teachings because you have little or no DEVELOPMENT OF DOCTRINE.

Which of these RECENT documents should I reject, that would make me a better Christian???

and enter into His covenant, not by dead ritual,

Click to expand...

Rituals are dead only to those who engage in them without the proper disposition. Jesus didn't condemn rituals, He sanctified them.

not by imaginary sacrament,

Click to expand...

Why must you be so insulting??? Sacraments have been explained 1000 times but you stubbornly resist all explanations. (cognitive dissonance)
Are Relics & Sacraments Mere Magical Charms?

I will not give My glory to another,
Nor My praise to graven images"
Isaiah 42:8

Click to expand...

The condemnation of "graven images" in the OT always deals solely with the worship of false gods. Iconoclasts always read into scripture what isn't there. Not all "images" are graven. Where in Scripture is Scripture in art form forbidden? Nowhere. That's another one of your false man made traditions.
Do Catholic’s Worship Statues?

Brakelite said:

And of course you are a linguist and anyone disagreeing with you is psychotic, arrogant, and ignorant.

Click to expand...

No, I’m NOT a linguist – and that’s the point.
I don’t pretend to BE a linguist. I leave questions about languages to the linguistic scholars.

I don’t make idiotic claims that the scholars are “wrong” because they disagree with ME.

Brakelite said:

As I said. Very early there were heretics who removed Christ as being Head of the church and replaced Him with vicarious filli dei. Church authority replaced Christ's authority, and the church began to demand that men listen to men, rather than listen to Jesus through His Spirit. Relational salvation through Jesus was circumvented by power hungry bishops and prelates.

You are correct. The religion of Ignatius is nothing like that of the Seventh Day Adventist church. And praise God for that. I am grateful that Jesus, by His grace and mercy, led me out of your church at the age of 24 and began to teach me Truth.

Again, you confirm my entire ethos... Those who refuse to surrender to man made traditions and trust in the word of God for instruction in righteousness, are heretics. Not because they are wrong in their doctrine, but because they resist the authority of your Pope. And again, praise God for that for without independent thought and individualism, heaven would be empty.

Click to expand...

I’m actually surprised at your complete cluelessness with regard to Scripture. You usually do your homework – however MISLED you ultimately are.
Time for a Bible Lesson . . .

Ummmmm, it was JESUS who gave His Church SUPREME earthly Authority when he told the first leaders of His Church that WHATEVER THEY loosed or held bound on earth would be loosed and held bound in Heaven (Matt. 16:19, Matt. 18:15-18).

It was JESUS who gave His Church SUPREME earthly Authority when he told the first leaders of His Church that whoever listened to or rejected THEM listened to and rejected HIM and the ONE who sent Him (Luke 10:16).

it was JESUS who gave His Church His GUARANTEE that the Holy Spirit would guide it to ALL TRUTH (John 16:12-15).

Finally – THANK YOU for admitting that the Church of Ignatius’s time is NOTHING like the man-made SDA sect. Ignatius, a lifelong disciple of the Apostle John wrote about the “Catholic Church” in his letters while John was presumably STILL alive. There us ZERO evidence to show that Ignatius was a heretic, as he was appointed Bishop of Antioch by Peter.