Original Sin

Adam and Eve did know what they could and could not do, and they were given the consequences. Its the same as a parent telling a child "Don't touch the stove or else you will get burnt." The child may not understand why, untill they touch the stove that is. Adam and Eve ate the fruit, and so they died. Not right away of the flesh, but their relationship with God was killed. Death isnt always your heart stopping, it is simply a seperation.The Bible makes no mention of Eve hesitating, it says in Gen. 3:6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.I read the chapter through several times and don't see hesitation. Thats besides the fact that part of the arguement dosn't even make sense.Lastly, if anyone had the best opportunity of getting things right it would have been Adam and Eve. God breathed Adam's very life into him. They had a perfect relationship with their Creator (pre-fall), and could freely communicate with him. God told them in an audible voice (when was the last time most of us heard that?) what to, and not to do. The sins of the Father are passed on, but also remember that love covers a multitude of sin.

(RisingForce;13896)
Hi, I am 16 years old, I have been raised christian. The problem is I have never really asked questions about the bible. My brother, who is 21, is an atheist, he reads the bible outloud to me and points out contradictions. He makes sense and has raised questions in me which i want answers for, please...Anyway onto the question number one of a series of questions i will ask in the coming days.To me it doesnt make sense how god tells adam and eve, who know not of wrong and right, good and evil not to eat of the forbidden fruit. But when they do they are punished even though they had not known what they were doing was wrong. Also the way the bible makes it, Eve was hesitant in doing it, that doesnt make sense because a person without any sense of right and wrong would do what he/she desires without any thought to it. Is this not unreasonable of god and unjust? That does not make sense because he is a just and loving god!!I need clarification on this and also....How am I punished for something my ancestors did? I had no say/no act in the so-called crime?This kind of thing is seen constantly throughout the Old Testament as well. God curses many people and their children's children.PLEASE Answer my questions....
Hi Risingforce,God not only told them not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and bad he told them why! The reason they had not been made with understanding of right and wrong was so God who knew what Satan would do could save them who wanted to be saved and have eternal life.The word of God teaches us that the book of life was written before the foundation of the world and Christ was also before the foundation.We obeyed our parents as children for two reasons. We knew by their care of us they loved us. God provided for Adam and Eve and showed them his love for them. And we knew because they cared they warned us about things like the danger of talking to strangers and playinf near water.God warned them about not eating the fruit because in that day they would die.We see that all the while God knew they would fall but he had prepared a way by which in the future he would restore them to himself in a way no one could cause them to be taken away again.Jesus Christ is the way by all may know the love of God and his care of all he has made. Look at the book of Peter and you will see that Jesus 1 Peter 3:18-19 (King James Version) 18.For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19.By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;No one has escaped the offer and choice by free will to accept Jesus Christ.You see Gods love like his power is infinite and he had already decided on a way back to him before Adam and Eve ate the fruit. A God who has complete knowledge , care and providence for those who accept and trust in him.We need to learn all about the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ. Because it is only when we love God and others we can know and understand what freedom and hope he brings all who trust and believe in Jesus.Hope you will see the greater providence of God for us his children.Faithful.:angel9:

For one thing you need to understand what the real Sin in Eden was readhttp://www.christianityboard.com/true-sin-...study-t509.htmlSecond you are obviously never been a parent and sometimes you have to show tough love to a child even when it breaks you heart to do so.God never disowed Adam and Eve he just punished them.Gen 3:21 The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them they did not just do a little thing wrong they changed the wholeWorld by their actions for generations to come. We still suffer from the sin they committed.

Genesis 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons. And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God (Jehovah Elohim - plural sense of God) amongst the trees of the garden. Eve took of the produce of Satan, which means she lost her virginity through a sexual act to the Serpent. Adam was also beguiled through Eve by Satan. They knew it was wrong before this, their knowledge now received a new meaning, when they encounter the Lord walking through the garden. Contrast the man-made covering of Adam And Eve's Fig leaves with God's clothing made of animal (sacrificed) skins (v. 21).They sewed aprons to cover their waist where the sin took place, not masks to cover their mouths from eating an apple. When we come to the understanding of what took place in the garden of Eden, we realize Fig Leaves is a Modest symbolism for that which is hidden. That thing hidden within Eve's womb was the knowledge of evil. The offspring was Cain, the first murderer.Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity [hatred] between Serpent and the woman, and between thy [Satan’s] seed and Adam's Seed; Christ shall bruise (the serpents) head [vital part], and (Adam's seed) shalt bruise His (own) heel [lower part].Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman He said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception [pregnancy]; in sorrow [painful toil] thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be subject to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.Genesis 3:22-24 ¶ And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to preserve the way of the tree of life.Preserve So that man should not “live for ever” in his fallen condition, but only in Christ, 1 John 5:11, 12.You also need to learn the parable of the fig trees and the sower (of tares)

God didnt disown anyone, they had to be protected from taking fruit from the tree of life, lest we live forever in our fallen state. Redemption of the body had to come first.Besides, he clothed them and then he prepared the way for our redemption.People disown him, no-one can say God has disowned us.

Your Right it is a very hard question, and we all try to give bible responses to emotional conditions. The problem is you can't understand this until you realize there was a 1st earth age and God was restarting over. Giving People a 2nd Chance, as it were. I always say Revelation is Genesis in reverse, well the opposite is true also. You yourself mentioned a few of these phrases, which are hard to understand with our logical or emotional brains. For instance God says to himself "let us make man in our own image." How can we relate to this? Likewise let it be known, that Satan who knew better but was no-good from the beginning deliberately deceived Eve first so he could use her to get to Adam. Adam more than likely would have resisted Satan's "interogation." Because he had 1st received the message and then Adam told it to Eve. Remember this word wasn't used to get an answer but to sow doubt in Eve's mind.Secondly, Satan is the Tree of Knowledge, Bad Knowledge, the knowledge of death. Satan never intended to use his knowledge for good. Christ is, was and still is the Tree of Life. Adam and Eve could have taken the Tree of Life also. They probably were not concerned that much with it, and willing accepted God's command, until Satan saw an opportunity to mislead innocent people against there better judgement.3rd - Genesis 3:22 "the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil" isn't a leading question its a statement of fact. A fact asserted to by a pluralistic God reasoning from the position of the knowledge of both. But under the charge of the Tree of Life, not of being good and bad. But out of concern, due to its consequences. Which was "thou shalt surely die."This is also true to some extent. Why was it a sin to know wrong and right? Adam and Eve did not know disobeying god was wrong until after when they gained the knowledge of good and evil and were ashamed. Their eyes had been opened as it says.But it wasn't a decision to know the difference between an apple and an orange, for example. As innocent as they were they knew it was wrong before they did it. If it was just knowing the difference between right and wrong, why did Eve "KNOWING" cause Adam to SIN also? Her Eye Had to be opened before Adam's right. So, here you come to the "moral of the story." Can you tell me what it is?I hope I haven't come across to strong. I just wanted to answer your question as best as I could for your benefit. I hope this helped.

(RisingForce;13896)
Hi, I am 16 years old, I have been raised christian. The problem is I have never really asked questions about the bible. My brother, who is 21, is an atheist, he reads the bible outloud to me and points out contradictions. He makes sense and has raised questions in me which i want answers for, please...Anyway onto the question number one of a series of questions i will ask in the coming days.To me it doesnt make sense how god tells adam and eve, who know not of wrong and right, good and evil not to eat of the forbidden fruit. But when they do they are punished even though they had not known what they were doing was wrong. Also the way the bible makes it, Eve was hesitant in doing it, that doesnt make sense because a person without any sense of right and wrong would do what he/she desires without any thought to it. Is this not unreasonable of god and unjust? That does not make sense because he is a just and loving god!!I need clarification on this and also....How am I punished for something my ancestors did? I had no say/no act in the so-called crime?This kind of thing is seen constantly throughout the Old Testament as well. God curses many people and their children's children.PLEASE Answer my questions....
If your parents asked you not to do something because you would die if you did. Knowing what it means to die, would you do it?Adam and Eve may not have known right from wrong but death itself is not a question of right or wrong. Why would you not disobey your parent if they had told you that you would die? Clearly it is your choice, disobey them and you die. Now if a stranger told you they were lying, whom would you chose to believe?If you ignored your parents warning and was killed, whos fault would that be?Not your parents because they warned you. And the stranger may have some responsibility but your the one who disobeyed. Warnings are just that, given us to prevent us doing the wrong thing. If warned then no ones fault but your own if you ignore the people warning you.Just think about it.

You have understand what is meant by death here. Think of it like a disease for example if someone lives a normal life span of 80 years. But decided to sin and have unsafe sex and contacted aids that person might only live to be 30 or 40 his sin cut his life span in half. In a sense you have given yourself a death penalty. This is the same type sin of Adam and Eve. Sin is death God did not sentence them to death as a punishment so much as their choices Lead to ther downfall because their spirit,soul, an body was made diseased by sin.( Satan infected them with sin,which causes death) In fact Adam lived several hundred years.

The temptation is about abusing freewill instead of relying on God's Word. Satan is tempting them to choose what is good and evil for themselves and not rely on what God should propose is right and wrong.So to answer your question as to why man should have to die to come to the knowledge of good and evil: because it is sin. It is pride, it is selfishness, it is blasphemy to assert that man (in any state whether "perfect" or fallen) is capable of matching wits with God. God knows of an eternal perspective of what is right and wrong, and man does not, since none other can have a “God’s eye view,” to know the end from the beginning. (Isa 46:8-10). The choice of life is to receive God’s Word as truth, in faith, or to go blindly through life making choices for temporal and immediate satisfaction, never knowing the latter end of the consequences of our choices until they catch up to us (Matt 15:10-20)!All that Adam and Eve knew was created upon the foundation that God's Word is true (Psalm 33:6, Heb 6:16-20, Isa 55:8-11). All that they knew of God was grace. They were created by Him, and appointed as ruler over His works, and set in His garden.Satan came professing that God was denying them something by the boundary of His commandment and that they should experience for themselves what they should consider to be good or evil and not be lead about by mere faith. He also insinuates a manner of protection from the fact that God, who cannot lie or contradict Himself, gave them EVERY tree of the garden and blessed them that they should multiply and replenish the earth (Gen 1:27-30). And the commandment coming afterward, cannot disannul the promise of the gift (Gal 3:15-18, Rom 7:4-13). Satan seeking to be honored as the “forerunner,” paving the way of this rebellion (Heb 6:19-20) as a very anti-type of Christ. And since all that God will’s comes to fruition, man should exercise his own will, and be “truly” like God, that he might have the things he considers good, and avoid only those things that he should consider evil! I find it heartbreaking that God calls to Adam seeking a confession and repentance and instead is blamed Himself for somehow allowing or forcing this to happen. And what does man do with this opportunity for forgiveness…the woman says the devil made me do it, and man says the woman who YOU made for me gave it to me (a false trinity in one accord sets out to sin, and in the testing of judgment turns one on another)! I also find it interesting that after they made aprons of leaves for themselves they say that they hid from God because they were naked…some might call this a contradiction, but I call it profound!God’s judgment is to remove the excess of His grace (which Adam and Eve already abandoned since they were willing to die to disobey God), to test the power of their own will (Job 40:1-14). Surely, man, that would take all of God’s grace in vain, only to throw it away to make a name for themselves, commemorating their own accomplishments, can attain unto such a state that God gave them freely by His grace, that they should not die…NOT!The reason God’s judgment seems so harsh is because our hearts are callous against sin (Eze 11:19-21, Joel 2:13, Deut 10:13-22). This act of disobedience made necessary the sacrifice of Christ. Because “there is no other name by which man can be saved,” the act of sin, forced the act of the cross. Not the eating of fruit, but the partaking of sin made necessary the death of Christ (the cross is the very symbol of sin, the broken Word of God, seeing He was made sin for us, and His body broken for us. 2 Cor 5:21, 1 Cor 11:24), and therefore in judgment makes necessary the death of Adam and Eve who refused repentance and therefore accept the consequence of their actions! That godly nature in which they were created being abandoned and left upon that “tree” in the moment of the WORKS of their apostasy, just as Christ, the very image and likeness of God, “hung upon a tree” in the act of sacrifice, providing a means of our redemption, by which we receive through FAITH (Gal 3:6-14, Eph 2:8-22).For our failure in sin is reverencing either our own judgments or even God’s gifts (whether by the law or grace) above a relationship with Him. In sin, Adam and Eve forsook all of God’s graces, in faith, upon the word of Satan (Refusing the Word of God and honoring Satan’s words, thereby yielding themselves servants to their new master and god. (Rom 6:16-23); surely than, we are to forsake the mere creature comforts of this world, and bear our cross, having been redeemed by the righteous Word of God and the true Angel of Light! For the proof of Jesus Christ being our only means of salvation and glory is spoken by the very mouth of the LORD, “Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever.” For Adam and Eve were surrounded by the world of God’s grace, and hearkened unto one voice of temptation; therefore redemption shall be to those surrounded by a world of sin, among a people defiled by their own works, who hearken to the words of God’s true Angel of Light, sent to redeem all things unto Himself! As the Son of God, Christ is held up as a righteous contrast to Adam, who betrayed the Father and led all people through himself toward sin. This far superior glory in Jesus is revealed manifold in His coming in the flesh, As the Son of Man (Adam); avenging Adam’s betrayal of humbling himself to the ways of sin, through Christ humbling Himself to the death of the cross, manifesting the gospel of grace; whereby all in Him are redeemed unto righteousness and holiness unto the LORD!!! For if Adam, a Son of God, can betray his heritage and nature in God, to rebel and lead all within him unto sin, then Christ, as the Son of Man, contrary to the fallen nature of the flesh, can sanctify unto righteousness all in Him through the gospel of grace (Rom 5)!!!

(alaskadrifter;13899)
Adam and Eve did know what they could and could not do, and they were given the consequences. Its the same as a parent telling a child "Don't touch the stove or else you will get burnt."
"Sin" is basically doing what God doesn't want us to do, right? Choosing to "sin" is excercising free will. When Eve ate the fruit, she was only excercising her God given free well. It doesn't make sense to me. God gives free will, we use it, and make a wrong choice and from then on their descendants were judged infinitely after living a finite period of time on earth. What a test, huh?

When Eve ate the fruit, she was only excercising her God given free well. It doesn't make sense to me. God gives free will, we use it, and make a wrong choice and from then on their descendants were judged infinitely after living a finite period of time on earth. What a test, huh?
If you don't understand that it was'nt about a piece of fruit,you won't get it.Try reading the post,Real sin in the Garden

This one?http://www.christianityboard.com/parable-f...tudy-t2808.htmlI was not focusing on the actual "sin" that took place, really. What my primary point was that whatever "sin" happened, was a result of our God given free will. It is literally impossible for Adam or Eve to have not "sinned" because they were merely excercising their free will. It's so natural.edit* I actually read this....three months ago onthi ssite....wil refresh the memeory, get those cobwebs out of there.(ÐøÞÞlégäñgèr;13950)
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Your nameis awesome! I assume that because Doppleganger is a German word, you are using German keys? Very cool!

I remember my father saying to me something like; "You are not old enough to understand this yet, but when you do, you will know what I am talking about". My father has passed over now, but his words still come back to me every once in awhile. Here, my young friend, let me share some with you.You are old enough, but are probably not now a father of your own children so the example I am about to give you may not carry the weight that I wish it to. If you had a child of about eight years old and he came to you asking why pornography was bad for him, what would you say? Would you say, "Here, let me show you?" Of course not! Once you reveal the nature and substance of pornography to a young mind, it is forever impressed with those images and with the knowledge of those images - you can never wash it away and your child will never be the same again. But, you did share the knowledge, didn't you? And how can simply allowing the child to understand why something is bad for him/her be wrong? Sometimes, like the example of pornography, even a full knowledge of why it is harmful is harmful.The knowledge of good and evil cannot be viewed as an short entry in some textbook or encyclopedia. Knowledge, full knowledge of a thing sometimes includes the experience of that thing - experience that changes us forever. And, we, in our present state, cannot fully understand or appreciate what it must have been like for Adam and Eve - imagine, a mind filled only with the knowledge of love and trust, innocent wondering and complete confidence in Someone caring for you. The Father says, "Do not eat or consume this thing - do not let it become a part of you. If you do, then it will change you forever and the poison that it contains will spread throughout your body and mind and eventually - you will die". Here is the sad part. Children seldom listen to what their parents tell them. They think that the parent is keeping something from them or trying to prevent them from growing up. And, when you add to that kind of thinking the tremendous influence of someone who claims to be your friend daring you to do the deed, well, its pretty easy to see where the path is going. It is the path of disobedience that all of us have "knowledge" of. It is the path that Adam and Eve eventually took - one that marked their children with death and destruction for thousands of years. What is wrong with "knowing" evil? Well, the taste of its poison remains on the tongue - and it kills you. That's what the Father was trying to tell Adam and Eve. And yeah, its as simple as that!God bless you and keep you. Christ plus nothing.Brother Bernard

Nope I aint German, those are just Alt+key Characters I used for naming chars in video games. For instance Holding the Alt key and pressing 0208 get you this kinda of Ð. My name is from a character I used in a game called Dungeon Siege. You can Make your own alt characters easily by using Windows Charmap.As far as the freewill thing, I am not to certain. I have heard of the philosophical ideas you are alluding to. As a new member you seem to be running the gambit, with your posts tryin to shake some cages. These people won't be shaken easy. And your anger does show. Its not really about freewill per say. Even Satan had the "freewill to perish" and take as many others that will follow him. Adam and Eve were beguiled by a being far more intelligent, cunning, with more resources at hand, who had an agenda. Had even Adam, just obeyed certain things would be different.The point is, in there youth they disobeyed God, whom they should have trusted. Can we trust Satan, No! It wasn't natural, which is why they had the shame and guilt of the experience. But God in his infinite wisdom, has a plan, you can either follow it despite your shortcomings, or follow Satan and use an excuse like, "its just natural and God doesn't want you to be like him and me". Its just another lie, another "interogation" not to answer a question, but sow doubt in the minds of people.