Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Be a sinner and sin boldly
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Who's oral word? The word of popes?
You are about to become unpopular here!
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Why do you distrust words that are not written down? None of the Bible was written down for centuries - it was all Tradition before it was Scripture.
FHII
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Really? The Bible wasn't written down.... We have the Gospels and the Epistles... They were letters, and were written down. Moses wrote stuff down... That's why we have the OT. David wrote a bunch of Psalms.... They must've been written down. Something was written down and Jesus even said, "IT IS WRITTEN!"
But none of the Bible was written down for centuries, even though Jesus said it is written.....
Like I said, where is a Berean when you need him?
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
ugh......
Scripture
I. The Word of God is Transferred Orally
Mark 13:31 - heaven and earth will pass away, but Jesus' Word will not pass away. But Jesus never says anything about His Word being entirely committed to a book. Also, it took 400 years to compile the Bible, and another 1,000 years to invent the printing press. How was the Word of God communicated? Orally, by the bishops of the Church, with the guidance and protection of the Holy Spirit.
Mark 16:15 - Jesus commands the apostles to preach the Gospel to every creature. But Jesus did not want this preaching to stop after the apostles died, and yet the Bible was not compiled until four centuries later. The word of God was transferred orally.
Mark 3:14; 16:15 - Jesus commands the apostles to preach (not write) the gospel to the world. Jesus gives no commandment to the apostles to write, and gives them no indication that the oral apostolic word he commanded them to communicate would later die in the fourth century. If Jesus wanted Christianity to be limited to a book (which would be finalized four centuries later), wouldn't He have said a word about it?
Luke 10:16 - He who hears you (not "who reads your writings"), hears me. The oral word passes from Jesus to the apostles to their successors by the gracious gifts of the Holy Spirit. This succession has been preserved in the Holy Catholic Church.
Luke 24:47 - Jesus explains that repentance and forgiveness of sins must be preached (not written) in Christ's name to all nations. For Protestants to argue that the word of God is now limited to a book (subject to thousands of different interpretations) is to not only ignore Scripture, but introduce a radical theory about how God spreads His word which would have been unbelievable to the people at the time of Jesus.
Acts 2:3-4 - the Holy Spirit came to the apostles in the form of "tongues" of fire so that they would "speak" (not just write) the Word.
Acts 15:27 - Judas and Silas, successors to the apostles, were sent to bring God's infallible Word by "word of mouth."
Rom. 10:8 - the Word is near you, on your lips and in your heart, which is the word of faith which is preached (not just written).
Rom. 10:17 - faith comes by what is "heard" (not just read) which is the Word that is "preached" (not read). This word comes from the oral tradition of the apostles. Those in countries where the Scriptures are not available can still come to faith in Jesus Christ.
1 Cor. 15:1,11 - faith comes from what is "preached" (not read). For non-Catholics to argue that oral tradition once existed but exists no longer, they must prove this from Scripture. But no where does Scripture say oral tradition died with the apostles. To the contrary, Scripture says the oral word abides forever.
Gal. 1:11-12 - the Gospel which is "preached" (not read) to me is not a man's Gospel, but the Revelation of Jesus Christ.
Eph. 1:13 - hearing (not reading) the Word of truth is the gospel of our salvation. This is the living word in the Church's living tradition.
Col. 1:5 - of this you have "heard" (not read) before in the word of truth, the Gospel which has come to you.
1 Thess. 2:13 - the Word of God is what you have "heard" (not read). The orally communicated word of God lasts forever, and this word is preserved within the Church by the Holy Spirit.
2 Tim. 1:13 - oral communications are protected by the Spirit. They abide forever. Oral authority does not die with the apostles.
2 Tim. 4:2,6-7 - Paul, at the end of his life, charges Timothy to preach (not write) the Word. Oral teaching does not die with Paul.
Titus 1:3 - God's word is manifested "through preaching" (not writing). This "preaching" is the tradition that comes from the apostles.
1 Peter 1:25 - the Word of the Lord abides forever and that Word is the good news that was "preached" (not read) to you. Because the Word is preached by the apostles and it lasts forever, it must be preserved by the apostles' successors, or this could not be possible. Also, because the oral word abides forever, oral apostolic tradition could not have died in the fourth century with all teachings being committed to Scripture.
2 Peter 1:12, 15 - Peter says that he will leave a "means to recall these things in mind." But since this was his last canonical epistle, this "means to recall" must therefore be the apostolic tradition and teaching authority of his office that he left behind.
2 John 1:12; 3 John 13 - John prefers to speak and not to write. Throughout history, the Word of God was always transferred orally and Jesus did not change this. To do so would have been a radical departure from the Judaic tradition.
Deut. 31:9-12 - Moses had the law read only every seven years. Was the word of God absent during the seven year interval? Of course not. The Word of God has always been given orally by God's appointed ones, and was never limited to Scripture.
Isa. 40:8 - the grass withers, the flower fades, but the Word of our God (not necessarily written) will stand forever.
Isa. 59:21 - Isaiah prophesies the promise of a living voice to hand on the Word of God to generations by mouth, not by a book. This is either a false prophecy, or it has been fulfilled by the Catholic Church.
Joel 1:3 - tell your children of the Word of the Lord, and they tell their children, and their children tell another generation.
Mal. 2:7 - the lips of a priest guard knowledge, and we should seek instruction from his mouth. Protestants want to argue all oral tradition was committed to Scripture? But no where does Scripture say this.
II. Learning through Oral Apostolic Tradition
Matt. 15:3 - Jesus condemns human traditions that void God's word. Some Protestants use this verse to condemn all tradition. But this verse has nothing to do with the tradition we must obey that was handed down to us from the apostles. (Here, the Pharisees, in their human tradition, gave goods to the temple to avoid taking care of their parents, and this voids God's law of honoring one's father and mother.)
Mark 7:9 - this is the same as Matt. 15:3 - there is a distinction between human tradition (that we should reject) and apostolic tradition (that we must accept).
Gal. 1:14; Col. 2:22 – Paul also writes about “the traditions of my fathers” and “human precepts and doctrines” which regarded the laws of Judaism. These traditions are no longer necessary.
Acts 2:42 - the members obeyed apostolic tradition (doctrine, prayers, and the breaking of bread). Their obedience was not to the Scriptures alone. Tradition (in Greek, "paradosis") means "to hand on" teaching.
Acts 20:7 - this verse gives us a glimpse of Christian worship on Sunday, but changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday is understood primarily from oral apostolic tradition.
John 17:20 - Jesus prays for all who believe in Him through the oral word of the apostles. Jesus protects oral apostolic teaching.
1 Cor. 11:2 - Paul commends the faithful for maintaining the apostolic tradition that they have received. The oral word is preserved and protected by the Spirit.
Eph. 4:20 – Paul refers the Ephesians to the oral tradition they previously received when he writes, “You did not so learn Christ!”
Phil. 4:9 - Paul says that what you have learned and received and heard and seen in me, do. This refers to learning from his preaching and example, which is apostolic tradition.
Col. 1:5-6 – of this you have heard before in the word of the truth, the gospel, which has come to you. This delivery of the faith refers to the oral tradition the Colossians had previously received from the ordained leaders of the Church. This oral tradition is called the gospel of truth.
1 Thess.1:5 – our gospel came to you not only in word, but in the power of the Holy Spirit. Paul is referring to the oral tradition which the Thessalonians had previously received. There is never any instruction to abandon these previous teachings; to the contrary, they are to be followed as the word of God.
1 Thess. 4:2 – Paul again refers the Thessalonians to the instructions they already had received, which is the oral apostolic tradition.
2 Thess. 2:5 – Paul yet again refers the Thessalonians to the previous teachings they received from Paul when he taught them orally. These oral teachings are no less significant than the written teachings.
2 Thess. 2:15 - Paul clearly commands us in this verse to obey oral apostolic tradition. He says stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, either by word of mouth or letter. This verse proves that for apostolic authority, oral and written communications are on par with each other. Protestants must find a verse that voids this commandment to obey oral tradition elsewhere in the Bible, or they are not abiding by the teachings of Scripture.
2 Thess. 2:15 - in fact, it was this apostolic tradition that allowed the Church to select the Bible canon (apostolicity was determined from tradition). Since all the apostles were deceased at the time the canon was decided, the Church had to rely on the apostolic tradition of their successors. Hence, the Bible is an apostolic tradition of the Catholic Church. This also proves that oral tradition did not cease with the death of the last apostle. Other examples of apostolic tradition include the teachings on the Blessed Trinity, the hypostatic union (Jesus had a divine and human nature in one person), the filioque (that the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son), the assumption of Mary, and knowing that the Gospel of Matthew was written by Matthew.
2 Thess. 3:6 - Paul again commands the faithful to live in accord with the tradition that they received from the apostles.
2 Thess. 3:7 - Paul tells them they already know how to imitate the elders. He is referring them to the tradition they have learned by his oral preaching and example.
1 Tim. 6:20 - guard what has been "entrusted" to you. The word "entrusted" is "paratheke" which means a "deposit." Oral tradition is part of what the Church has always called the Deposit of Faith.
2 Tim. 2:2 - Paul says what you have heard from me entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also. This is "tradition," or the handing on of apostolic teaching.
2 Tim. 3:14 - continue in what you have learned and believed knowing from whom you learned it (by oral tradition).
1 John 2:7 – John refers to the oral word his disciples have heard which is the old commandment that we love one another.
III. Examples of Jesus' and the Apostles' Reliance on Oral Tradition
Matt. 2:23 - the prophecy "He shall be a Nazarene" is oral tradition. It is not found in the Old Testament. This demonstrates that the apostles relied upon oral tradition and taught by oral tradition.
Matt 23:2 - Jesus relies on the oral tradition of acknowledging Moses' seat of authority (which passed from Moses to Joshua to the Sanhedrin). This is not recorded in the Old Testament.
John 19:26; 20:2; 21:20,24 - knowing that the "beloved disciple" is John is inferred from Scripture, but is also largely oral tradition.
Acts 20:35 - Paul relies on the oral tradition of the apostles for this statement ("it is better to give than to receive") of Jesus. It is not recorded in the Gospels.
1 Cor. 7:10 - Paul relies on the oral tradition of the apostles to give the charge of Jesus that a wife should not separate from her husband.
1 Cor. 10:4 - Paul relies on the oral tradition of the rock following Moses. It is not recorded in the Old Testament. See Exodus 17:1-17 and Num. 20:2-13.
Eph 5:14 - Paul relies on oral tradition to quote an early Christian hymn - "awake O sleeper rise from the dead and Christ shall give you light."
Heb. 11:37 - the author of Hebrews relies on the oral tradition of the martyrs being sawed in two. This is not recorded in the Old Testament.
Jude 9 - Jude relies on the oral tradition of the Archangel Michael's dispute with satan over Moses' body. This is not found in the Old Testament.
Jude 14-15 - Jude relies on the oral tradition of Enoch's prophecy which is not recorded in the Old Testament.
Tradition / Church Fathers
I. The Word of God in Oral Apostolic Tradition
'If I do not find it in the ancient Scriptures, I will not believe the Gospel; on my saying to them, It is written, they answered me, That remains to be proved. But to me Jesus Christ is in the place of all that is ancient: His cross, and death and resurrection, and the faith which is by Him are undefiled monuments of antiquity…' Ignatius ofAntioch, Epistle to the Philadelphians 8,2 (c. A.D. 110).
'Follow the bishop, all of you, as Jesus Christ follows his Father, and the presbyterium as the Apostles. As for the deacons, respect them as the Law of God. Let no one do anything with reference to the Church without the bishop. Only that Eucharist may be regarded as legitimate which is celebrated with the bishop or his delegate presiding. Where the bishop is, there let the community be, just as where Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.' Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Symyrnaens 8 (c. A.D. 110).
'The apostles at that time first preached the Gospel but later by the will of God, they delivered it to us in the Scriptures, that it might be the foundation and pillar of our faith.' Irenaeus, Against Heresies 3,1 (inter A.D. 180/199).
'Since, therefore, the tradition from the apostles does thus exist in the Church, and is permanent among us, let us revert to the Scriptural proof furnished by those apostles who did also write the Gospel, in which they recorded the doctrine regarding God, pointing out that our Lord Jesus Christ is the truth, and that no lie is in Him.' Irenaeus, Against Heresies 3,5,1 (inter A.D. 180/199).
"Through none others know we the disposition of our salvation, than those through whom the gospel came to us, first heralding it, then by the will of God delivering to us the Scriptures, which were to be the foundation and pillar of our faith...But when, the heretics are Scriptures, as if they were wrong, and unauthoritative, and were variable, and the truth could not be extracted from them by those who were ignorant of Tradition...And when we challenge them in turn what that tradition, which is from the Apostles, which is guarded by the succession of elders in the churches, they oppose themselves to Tradition, saying that they are wiser, not only than those elders, but even than the Apostles. The Tradition of the Apostles, manifested 'on the contrary' in the whole world, is open in every Church to all who see the truth...And, since it is a long matter in a work like this to enumerate these successions, we will confute them by pointing to the Tradition of that greatest and most ancient and universally known Church, founded and constituted at Rome by the two most glorious Apostles, Peter and Paul, a tradition which she has had and a faith which she proclaims to all men from those Apostles.' Irenaeus, Against Heresies 3,1-3 (inter A.D. 180/199).
'For how should it be if the apostles themselves had not left us their writings? Would it not be necessary to follow the course of the tradition which they handed down to those whom they did commit the Churches?' Irenaeus, Against Heresies 3, 4:1 (inter A.D. 180/199).
"Wherefore it is incumbent to obey the presbyters who are in the Church...those who, together with the succession of the episcopate, have received the certain gift of truth..." Irenaeus, Against Heresies 26:2 (inter A.D. 180/199).
"In this order, and by this succession, the ecclesiastical tradition from the apostles, and the preaching of the truth, have come down to us. And this is most abundant proof that there is one and the same vivifying faith, which has been preserved in the Church from the Apostles until now, and handed in truth." Irenaeus, Against Heresies 3,3:3 (inter A.D. 180/199).
"Then I have pointed out the truth, and shown the preaching of the Church, which the prophets proclaimed (as I have already demonstrated), but which Christ brought to perfection, and the apostles have handed down, from which the Church, receiving, and throughout all the world alone preserving them in their integrity, has transmitted them to her sons. Then also-having disposed of all questions which the heretics propose to us, and having explained the doctrine of the apostles, and clearly set forth many of those things which were said and done by the Lord in parables…that they may preserve steadfast the faith which they have received, guarded by the Church in its integrity, in order that they be in no way perverted by those who endeavor to teach them false doctrine..."Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Preface V (inter A.D. 180/199).
"Now all these [heretics] are of much later date than the bishops to whom the apostles committed to the Churches; which fact I have in the third book taken all pains to demonstrate. It follows, then, as a matter of course, that these aforementioned, since they are blind to the truth, and deviate from the
way, will walk in various roads; and therefore the footsteps of their doctrine are scattered here and there without agreement or connection. But the path of those belonging to the Church circumscribes the whole world, as possessing the sure tradition of the Apostles, and gives unto us to see that the faith of all is one and the same ...And undoubtedly the preaching of the Church is true and steadfast, in which one and the same way of salvation is shown throughout the whole world...For the Church preaches the truth everywhere..." Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Preface V 20, 1 (inter A.D. 180/199).
"Those, therefore, who desert the preaching of the Church, call in question the knowledge of the holy presbyters...It behooves us, therefore, to avoid their doctrines, and take careful heed lest we suffer any injury from them; but to flee to the Church, and be brought up in her bosom, and be nourished with the Lord's Scriptures." Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Preface V 20, 1 (inter A.D. 180/199).
"Wherefore it is incumbent to obey the presbyters who are in the Church, those who as I have shown, possess succession from the apostles; those who, together with the succession of bishops, have received the certain gift of truth, according to the good pleasure of the Father. But [it is also incumbent] to hold in suspicion others who depart from the primitive succession of the succession, and assemble themselves...But those who cleave asunder, and separate the unity of the Church, shall recieve from God the same punishments as Jeroboam did." Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 4, 26:2 (inter A.D. 180/199).
"Heretics assent neither to Scripture nor to Tradition." Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 3,2,1 (inter A.D. 180/199).
"We do not take our scriptural teaching from the parables but we interpret the parables according to our teaching." Tertullian, Purity 9,1 (c. A.D. 200).
Oral Torah
According to some Jews during the Hellenistic period, such as the Sadducees, only a minimal oral tradition of interpreting the words of the Torah existed, which did not include extended biblical interpretation. According to the Pharisees, however, God revealed both a Written Torah and an Oral Torah to Moses, the Oral Torah consisting of both stories and legal traditions. In Rabbinic Judaism, the Oral Torah is essential for understanding the Written Torah literally (as it includes neither vowels nor punctuation) and exegetically. The Oral Torah has different facets, principally Halacha (laws), theAggadah (stories), and the Kabbalah (esoteric knowledge). Major portions of the Oral Law have been committed to writing, notably the Mishnah; the Tosefta; Midrash, such as Midrash Rabbah, theSifre, the Sifra, and the Mechilta; and both the Babylonian and Jerusalem Talmuds as well. It may have even influenced early Jewish Christianity.
Orthodox Judaism continues to accept the Oral Torah in its totality. Masorti and Conservative Judaism state that the Oral Tradition is to some degree divinely inspired, and that rabbis today must adapt and apply its principles to changing conditions, even if this results in changes in Jewish practice. Reform Judaism also gives some credence to the Talmud containing the legal elements of the Oral Torah, but, as with the written Torah, asserts that both were inspired by, but not dictated by, God. Reconstructionist Judaism denies any connection of the Torah, Written or Oral, with God, viewing it instead as the nation's literary and moral genius.
The article Jewish commentaries on the Bible discusses the Jewish understanding of the Bible, including Bible commentaries from the ancient Targums to classical Rabbinic literature, the midrashliterature, the classical medieval commentators, and modern day Jewish Bible commentaries.
Canonical gospels
Main article: Development of the New Testament canon
Of the many gospels written in antiquity, only four gospels came to be accepted as part of the New Testament, or canonical. An insistence upon there being a canon of four gospels, and no others, was a central theme of Irenaeus of Lyons, c. 185. In his central work, Adversus Haereses Irenaeus denounced various early Christian groups that used only one gospel, such as Marcionism which used only Marcion's version of Luke, or the Ebionites which seem to have used an Aramaic version of Matthew as well as groups that embraced the texts of newer revelations, such as the Valentinians (A.H. 1.11). Irenaeus declared that the four he espoused were the four "Pillars of the Church": "it is not possible that there can be either more or fewer than four" he stated, presenting as logic the analogy of the four corners of the earth and the four winds (3.11.8). His image, taken from Ezekiel 1, or Revelation 4:6-10, of God's throne borne by four creatures with four faces—"the four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the right side: and the four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle"—equivalent to the "four-formed" gospel, is the origin of the conventional symbols of the Evangelists: lion, bull, eagle, man. Irenaeus was ultimately successful in declaring that the four gospels collectively, and exclusively these four, contained the truth. He also supported reading each gospel in light of the others.
By the turn of the 5th century, the Catholic Church in the west, under Pope Innocent I, recognized a biblical canon including the four gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, which had been previously established at a number of regional Synods, namely the Council of Rome (382), the Synod of Hippo (393), and two Synods of Carthage(397 and 419).[sup][28][/sup] This canon, which corresponds to the modern Catholic canon, was used in the Vulgate, an early 5th century translation of the Bible made by Jerome[sup][29][/sup]under the commission of Pope Damasus I in 382.
"Those, therefore, who desert the preaching of the Church, call in question the knowledge of the holy presbyters...It behooves us, therefore, to avoid their doctrines, and take careful heed lest we suffer any injury from them; but to flee to the Church, and be brought up in her bosom, and be nourished with the Lord's Scriptures." Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Preface V 20, 1 (inter A.D. 180/199).
"Wherefore it is incumbent to obey the presbyters who are in the Church, those who as I have shown, possess succession from the apostles; those who, together with the succession of bishops, have received the certain gift of truth, according to the good pleasure of the Father. But [it is also incumbent] to hold in suspicion others who depart from the primitive succession of the succession, and assemble themselves...But those who cleave asunder, and separate the unity of the Church, shall recieve from God the same punishments as Jeroboam did." Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 4, 26:2 (inter A.D. 180/199).
"Heretics assent neither to Scripture nor to Tradition." Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 3,2,1 (inter A.D. 180/199).
"We do not take our scriptural teaching from the parables but we interpret the parables according to our teaching." Tertullian, Purity 9,1 (c. A.D. 200).
Oral Torah
According to some Jews during the Hellenistic period, such as the Sadducees, only a minimal oral tradition of interpreting the words of the Torah existed, which did not include extended biblical interpretation. According to the Pharisees, however, God revealed both a Written Torah and an Oral Torah to Moses, the Oral Torah consisting of both stories and legal traditions. In Rabbinic Judaism, the Oral Torah is essential for understanding the Written Torah literally (as it includes neither vowels nor punctuation) and exegetically. The Oral Torah has different facets, principally Halacha (laws), theAggadah (stories), and the Kabbalah (esoteric knowledge). Major portions of the Oral Law have been committed to writing, notably the Mishnah; the Tosefta; Midrash, such as Midrash Rabbah, theSifre, the Sifra, and the Mechilta; and both the Babylonian and Jerusalem Talmuds as well. It may have even influenced early Jewish Christianity.
Orthodox Judaism continues to accept the Oral Torah in its totality. Masorti and Conservative Judaism state that the Oral Tradition is to some degree divinely inspired, and that rabbis today must adapt and apply its principles to changing conditions, even if this results in changes in Jewish practice. Reform Judaism also gives some credence to the Talmud containing the legal elements of the Oral Torah, but, as with the written Torah, asserts that both were inspired by, but not dictated by, God. Reconstructionist Judaism denies any connection of the Torah, Written or Oral, with God, viewing it instead as the nation's literary and moral genius.
The article Jewish commentaries on the Bible discusses the Jewish understanding of the Bible, including Bible commentaries from the ancient Targums to classical Rabbinic literature, the midrashliterature, the classical medieval commentators, and modern day Jewish Bible commentaries.
Canonical gospels
Main article: Development of the New Testament canon
Of the many gospels written in antiquity, only four gospels came to be accepted as part of the New Testament, or canonical. An insistence upon there being a canon of four gospels, and no others, was a central theme of Irenaeus of Lyons, c. 185. In his central work, Adversus Haereses Irenaeus denounced various early Christian groups that used only one gospel, such as Marcionism which used only Marcion's version of Luke, or the Ebionites which seem to have used an Aramaic version of Matthew as well as groups that embraced the texts of newer revelations, such as the Valentinians (A.H. 1.11). Irenaeus declared that the four he espoused were the four "Pillars of the Church": "it is not possible that there can be either more or fewer than four" he stated, presenting as logic the analogy of the four corners of the earth and the four winds (3.11.8). His image, taken from Ezekiel 1, or Revelation 4:6-10, of God's throne borne by four creatures with four faces—"the four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the right side: and the four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle"—equivalent to the "four-formed" gospel, is the origin of the conventional symbols of the Evangelists: lion, bull, eagle, man. Irenaeus was ultimately successful in declaring that the four gospels collectively, and exclusively these four, contained the truth. He also supported reading each gospel in light of the others.
By the turn of the 5th century, the Catholic Church in the west, under Pope Innocent I, recognized a biblical canon including the four gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, which had been previously established at a number of regional Synods, namely the Council of Rome (382), the Synod of Hippo (393), and two Synods of Carthage(397 and 419).[sup][28][/sup] This canon, which corresponds to the modern Catholic canon, was used in the Vulgate, an early 5th century translation of the Bible made by Jerome[sup][29][/sup]under the commission of Pope Damasus I in 382.
As we renew our minds, God gives us the power to be free from sin's bondage. We do not become entirely perfect in this life, but as we grow in wisdom and knowledge by walking in the spirit, God recreates us completely! We have a new spirit when we come to the Father through Jesus. Then God's Spirit within us changes our minds. Some times it takes quite a while for us to learn to walk in the Spirit. Sure is a journey. I'm so thankful for God renewing my mind and daily making me look more like Jesus! I love God so much for all the ways he is changing me! Taking out the negative and putting his love in me! God's healing me and bringing me closer to his image. Helping me to boldly proclaim the gospel. Letting me know I'm God's child! Helping me to overcome my weaknesses!
Thank you so much Father! Please make me less so you will be able to use me more! Please make me whole and give me wisdom! Please shine your light out of me so sinners will see Christ in me and be drawn to you! Please give me your words and use me to show your love. Thank you father for forgiving my sins and being so patient and loving to me. Thank you for the compassion you have freely given me. Help me not to sin! I want you to be proud of me and say well done on judgement day.
In Jesus name I pray while thanking you!
Thank you so much Father! Please make me less so you will be able to use me more! Please make me whole and give me wisdom! Please shine your light out of me so sinners will see Christ in me and be drawn to you! Please give me your words and use me to show your love. Thank you father for forgiving my sins and being so patient and loving to me. Thank you for the compassion you have freely given me. Help me not to sin! I want you to be proud of me and say well done on judgement day.
In Jesus name I pray while thanking you!
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
I got it from several websites. I hope you are not complaining about me including scripture......
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
You are actually - serious, aren't you?
And I am the whiner? WOW
You've complained when I didn't include scripture
You've complained when I cited a source you didn't like
Now you are complaining when I give you a list of scripture because of plagiarism? You can easily find my sources by copying a pasting a sentence from my list in google. Rest ease, I have never claimed that these are my sources, nor have I tried to publish it under my name.
Tell me when you ready to be serious, ok?
FHII
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When did I ever call you a whiner?
Yes, I complained about you not using scripture. You don't seem to take them as serious as I do. I believe they have absolute authority when it comes to doctrine. I didn't coplain when you cited a source (and I never said I didn't like it). What I did do is say it didn't hold as much weight as scripture.
I will not complain if you give a list of scripture. I'm in fact, asking for it. I'm complaining because you didn't give due credit. It may seem unreasonable to you that I would complain, but that is just me. I have been published, other members of my family have been published, I have a lot of friends who have been published, and it's wrong when someone puts so much work into something and isn't given credit. All it would've taken is a simple sentance saying, "I got this from catholicsareus.com or whatever the source is.
You did publish it under your name. You took the writings and never gave credit on this page. It's not something that I'll say you are the dreg of humanity over, but it is a peeve of mine and I'm simply going to ask you to be fair to your references.
Look, don't go overboard on this.... It's pretty separate from the issue at hand. I do take it sensitively.... But it's not such a big deal to give due credit.
Yes, I complained about you not using scripture. You don't seem to take them as serious as I do. I believe they have absolute authority when it comes to doctrine. I didn't coplain when you cited a source (and I never said I didn't like it). What I did do is say it didn't hold as much weight as scripture.
I will not complain if you give a list of scripture. I'm in fact, asking for it. I'm complaining because you didn't give due credit. It may seem unreasonable to you that I would complain, but that is just me. I have been published, other members of my family have been published, I have a lot of friends who have been published, and it's wrong when someone puts so much work into something and isn't given credit. All it would've taken is a simple sentance saying, "I got this from catholicsareus.com or whatever the source is.
You did publish it under your name. You took the writings and never gave credit on this page. It's not something that I'll say you are the dreg of humanity over, but it is a peeve of mine and I'm simply going to ask you to be fair to your references.
Look, don't go overboard on this.... It's pretty separate from the issue at hand. I do take it sensitively.... But it's not such a big deal to give due credit.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
When did I ever call you a whiner?
FHII, on 24 December 2011 - 01:00 AM, said:
You quoted me, so I'll answer. What you are writing certainly isn't "Old Age". It isn't what the Bible says! I have, "Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts, Romans, Corinthians, etc...." You have "Augustine, Polycarp, Lewis".... What's worse is your whining about it!
Yes, I complained about you not using scripture. You don't seem to take them as serious as I do. I believe they have absolute authority when it comes to doctrine. I didn't coplain when you cited a source (and I never said I didn't like it). What I did do is say it didn't hold as much weight as scripture.
Fair enough. Look, I recognize that you limit your authority (on Earth) to scripture. I am Catholic so I limit my authority on Earth to Scripture and Tradition, so if you are in a discussion with me I will use both to form my opinion.
I will not complain if you give a list of scripture. I'm in fact, asking for it. I'm complaining because you didn't give due credit. It may seem unreasonable to you that I would complain, but that is just me. I have been published, other members of my family have been published, I have a lot of friends who have been published, and it's wrong when someone puts so much work into something and isn't given credit. All it would've taken is a simple sentance saying, "I got this from catholicsareus.com or whatever the source is.
Fair enough. I will expect the same from you.
Judaism holds to the Scriptures and traditions.
But Christianity, according to the bible is foremost conformity to the Holy Spirit and Scriptures. The Spirit speaks and we verify through then Scriptures.
At Antioch, the brothers were praying when the Holy Spirit said...Yes the Holy Spirit said..
"Separate for ME Paul and Barnabus..."
So the true church tradition is not to be led by traditions...but by the Holy Spirit. That is the tradition that Paul was speaking about. Otherwise we are just repackaging Judaism and more of the same.
But Christianity, according to the bible is foremost conformity to the Holy Spirit and Scriptures. The Spirit speaks and we verify through then Scriptures.
At Antioch, the brothers were praying when the Holy Spirit said...Yes the Holy Spirit said..
"Separate for ME Paul and Barnabus..."
So the true church tradition is not to be led by traditions...but by the Holy Spirit. That is the tradition that Paul was speaking about. Otherwise we are just repackaging Judaism and more of the same.
FHII
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I stand corrected about calling you a whiner.
Again, Augustine, Polycarp and Lewis as well as many others you may bring up in the future were great thinkers and scholars. I don't ever mean to de emphasize them nor their works. I wish more of them were around in our day. But as I said, they don't take the place of what is written in the Bible. I don't think they'd like it to even suggest they do.
As for you being Catholic and your beliefs on the traditions, we'll continue to disagree I suppose.
Again, Augustine, Polycarp and Lewis as well as many others you may bring up in the future were great thinkers and scholars. I don't ever mean to de emphasize them nor their works. I wish more of them were around in our day. But as I said, they don't take the place of what is written in the Bible. I don't think they'd like it to even suggest they do.
As for you being Catholic and your beliefs on the traditions, we'll continue to disagree I suppose.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Repentance from sin means to turn away from sin - 180 degrees. Finding your happiness in God instead of self. So if we choose to love others before self or 'as ourselves' (like we used to love ourselves first) we are repenting.
Being sorry for our sins is simply recognizing that we are turned away from God and towards self - turning back towards God is necessary. Groveling in the shame and guilt of our sin is a waste of time - it is an indulgence that delays turning from self.
This is not the place for a back-and-forth.
To return to the OP, why don't we examine the quote in full light (taken from Wikiquote):
In other words, acknowledge that you are a sinner and repent. Don't preach a false, feel-good gospel.
To return to the OP, why don't we examine the quote in full light (taken from Wikiquote):
If you are a preacher of mercy, do not preach an imaginary but the true mercy. If the mercy is true, you must therefore bear the true, not an imaginary sin. God does not save those who are only imaginary sinners. Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong (sin boldly), but let your trust in Christ be stronger, and rejoice in Christ who is the victor over sin, death, and the world. We will commit sins while we are here, for this life is not a place where justice resides. We, however, says Peter (2. Peter 3:13) are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth where justice will reign.
Letter 99, Paragraph 13. Erika Bullmann Flores, Tr. from
In other words, acknowledge that you are a sinner and repent. Don't preach a false, feel-good gospel.
Be a sinner and sin boldly
Do you know the context of these words?
After the Edict of Worms, Emperor Charles V issued an arrest warrant for Luther. It was now a "sin" to help or shelter Luther. In fact, it was now treason.
In a letter to his fearful protege Philip Melanchthon, Luther wrote, "Be a sinner, Philip, and sin boldly! Only still more boldly believe and rejoice in Christ."
Do you know the context of these words?
After the Edict of Worms, Emperor Charles V issued an arrest warrant for Luther. It was now a "sin" to help or shelter Luther. In fact, it was now treason.
In a letter to his fearful protege Philip Melanchthon, Luther wrote, "Be a sinner, Philip, and sin boldly! Only still more boldly believe and rejoice in Christ."
Finally some semblance of sanity.
BTW it was Luther's work on translating the Scriptures into the German language so that the everyday people could understand it that freed their Church from the tyranny of so called 'oral' tradition of Rome which included the Pope being the Vicar of Christ., Indulgences (payment for forgiveness of sins), resacrifice of Christ in the Mass, justification by Christ +works (as a life long process) and the list goes on. Thanks, but I'll stick to Sola Scriptura (Scripture as the final Word of authority) as even the Church Fathers had their disagreements.
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