Did Satan do a good thing?

Elysian, if you spent as much time in the Bible as you do starting these silly threads...

.....you wouldn't need to start these silly threads.

Is Satan then a teacher rather than a tempter, a teacher appointed by God to educate mankind?

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Only Satan in his evil pride would like to think so.

elysian said:

I am too poor to afford a bible or anything at all. I come from a poor, third-world country, trying to survive. The forum is the only thing I have.

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It must be hard to be so poor you cannot afford a Bible; you must have to walk a long ways to find a computer and internet connection.

elysian said:

I am too poor to afford a bible or anything at all. I come from a poor, third-world country, trying to survive. The forum is the only thing I have.

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-- Yet you are able to access the Internet on a regular basis?

Psssst. It isn't that difficult to find the Bible online.

bible.cc gives you the entire Bible, scripture by scripture, in every translation.

Ta dah!

The serpent was not doing anyone a favor. The Fall of humanity was a terrible event that never should have happened. Believing that the serpent was helping us and that the Fall was actually a good thing is shared by the Mormon church and an early Gnostic heresy called Sethianism.

elysian said:

Not much mention is made of Satan. Genesis starts with the fall of A and E, only the serpent is mentioned.

Just who is Satan? Assuming he was the serpent, did he actually do a good thing by tempting A and E to acquire knowledge? I mean, knowledge is a good thing, right? A and E were ignorant until they ate from the tree of knowledge, and Satan was instrumental. So did God really want A and E to eat from the tree, which was why he allowed the serpent to enter the garden to begin with? Is Satan then a teacher rather than a tempter, a teacher appointed by God to educate mankind?

Some insights would be appreciated.

Elysian

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satan a teacher, appointed by God to educate mankind...WOW !!!

elysian said:

I am too poor to afford a bible or anything at all. I come from a poor, third-world country, trying to survive. The forum is the only thing I have.

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Could the admins check this guy's IP address to see where it's located? If it's not a third world country, please ban him.

Satan is a liar. The serpent shows this Genesis 3:4-5
God is the only good as HammerStone presents. God would not send a liar to teach us.
Satan means deceiver, but careful when thinking about him. ESPECIALLY if you do not have a Bible to confer to with your thoughts.

Excuse me people but when a person asks genuine questions because he is trying to grow in the faith we should not be telling him he is silly not to be finding these answers himself in the Bible. Asking questions are discussing the topic in a civilised manner is how we learn so I don't care if Elysian can get hold of a Bible or not. If he asks a question on here then we as Christians should give him the benefit of the doubt and treat his questions at face value.

"satan" is simply the word "adversary" and is only that carnal mind at emnity against obeying the Word of God.

The superstitions of a supernatural evil god-creature that some churches teach is a false doctrine. That false doctrine altogether removes a man from the wickedness of his own carnal mind, putting the blame off onto a horned evil doer who is purported to have a pitchfork, a forked tail and runs around in red flannels causing people to be "tempted" somehow.
This is a child's version of "evil" and when we grow and mature and learn how to use a concordance and become an accomplished sola scripturist led purely by the Spirit of Revelation of Christ, all things will become evident.

Lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes and the pride of life. It all comes from within us.
That IS the "devil" or "satan". So important to know of our own selves in our origins as sons of Adam.

The truth is so revealing of our inherint wickedness. Let us take responsibility to what we've caused of evil and wickedness from our own evil hearts, and not pass the buck on to a fable.

For in Christ, the devil is overcome. Our own temptations and lusts and wickedness is done away with in the righteousness of Christ indwelling us, His Pure and Perfect Temple Bodies that He has raised up from the dead in His own resurrection! Praise you Jesus!

Peace

Phillip said:

"satan" is simply the word "adversary" and is only that carnal mind at emnity against obeying the Word of God.

The superstitions of a supernatural evil god-creature that some churches teach is a false doctrine. That false doctrine altogether removes a man from the wickedness of his own carnal mind, putting the blame off onto a horned evil doer who is purported to have a pitchfork, a forked tail and runs around in red flannels causing people to be "tempted" somehow.
This is a child's version of "evil" and when we grow and mature and learn how to use a concordance and become an accomplished sola scripturist led purely by the Spirit of Revelation of Christ, all things will become evident.

Lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes and the pride of life. It all comes from within us.
That IS the "devil" or "satan". So important to know of our own selves in our origins as sons of Adam.

The truth is so revealing of our inherint wickedness. Let us take responsibility to what we've caused of evil and wickedness from our own evil hearts, and not pass the buck on to a fable.

For in Christ, the devil is overcome. Our own temptations and lusts and wickedness is done away with in the righteousness of Christ indwelling us, His Pure and Perfect Temple Bodies that He has raised up from the dead in His own resurrection! Praise you Jesus!

Peace

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I agree with putting him in perspective, but to deny him as an actual entity is foolish:

Job 1:6
One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them.
Job 1:7
The LORD said to Satan, “Where have you come from?” Satan answered the LORD, “From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it.”
Job 1:8
Then the LORD said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.”
Job 1:9
“Does Job fear God for nothing?” Satan replied.

God would have to be talking to himself, seeing, and hearing things here, as Satan and God spoke to each other.

Matthew 4
Jesus Is Tested in the Wilderness

[sup]1[/sup] Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted[sup][a][/sup] by the devil. [sup]2[/sup] After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. [sup]3[/sup] The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”
[sup]4[/sup] Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’[sup][b][/sup]”
[sup]5[/sup] Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. [sup]6[/sup] “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written:
“‘He will command his angels concerning you,
and they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’[sup][c][/sup]”
[sup]7[/sup] Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’[sup][d][/sup]”
[sup]8[/sup] Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. [sup]9[/sup] “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”
[sup]10[/sup] Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’[sup][e][/sup]”
[sup]11[/sup] Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.

I don't see any other way to explain away Satan here, without suggesting that Jesus was talking to himself in the desert and had an "inherent wickedness" he was battling.

Revelation
[sup]9[/sup] The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

An "inner adversary" has angels? who were hurled to earth?

Redeemed86 said:

I agree with putting him in perspective, but to deny him as an actual entity is foolish:

Job 1:6
One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them.
Job 1:7
The LORD said to Satan, “Where have you come from?” Satan answered the LORD, “From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it.”
Job 1:8
Then the LORD said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.”
Job 1:9
“Does Job fear God for nothing?” Satan replied.

God would have to be talking to himself, seeing, and hearing things here, as Satan and God spoke to each other.

Matthew 4
Jesus Is Tested in the Wilderness

[sup]1[/sup] Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted[sup][a][/sup] by the devil. [sup]2[/sup] After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. [sup]3[/sup] The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”
[sup]4[/sup] Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’[sup][b][/sup]”
[sup]5[/sup] Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. [sup]6[/sup] “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written:
“‘He will command his angels concerning you,
and they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’[sup][c][/sup]”
[sup]7[/sup] Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’[sup][d][/sup]”
[sup]8[/sup] Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. [sup]9[/sup] “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”
[sup]10[/sup] Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’[sup][e][/sup]”
[sup]11[/sup] Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.

I don't see any other way to explain away Satan here, without suggesting that Jesus was talking to himself in the desert and had an "inherent wickedness" he was battling.

Revelation
[sup]9[/sup] The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

An "inner adversary" has angels? who were hurled to earth?

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You are trying to prove with those scriptures that the 'devil' is a supernatural entity?

THAT is foolishness.

All Jesus' temptations "of the devil" came from within his carnal mind. Yes, that is the "entity". Jesus, the man. Any other idea is silliness.

Consider for one, did the "devil" have any power of any of those things "he" offered Jesus?

Of course not.

Only Jesus Himself had any power to take up reign over the earth, or to turn stones into bread and feed himself, or to show himself as invulnerable before folk by surviving a plunge from a cornice of the temple. No other 'creature' could offer such a thing. I sure would never have fallen for such a moronic offering, knowing that no one but Jesus had that power. Jesus knew that only He was the Rightful heir and King and of Himself were those things to be manifest.

His temptation laid in being able to do all the things He was tempted to do for Himself. That is the total meaning and understanding. And He overcame those temptation 'wiles of the devil'. If I had all that power, I'd be tempted to bypass the cross also.

Jesus was tempted, as we all are, when He was drawn away by His own lusts and enticed. Lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes and pride of life.

But He overcame His temptations to do those things by the power of Christ in Him.

(Heb 4:15) For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
(Heb 2:14) Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil
.
THAT is what we are to learn from all this. NOT that evil is an incarnate boogey man who has power and riches and invulnerability to offer the son of God lol! Don't you see how foolish your store bought devil idea is??

And PS...

The "satan" in Job's story is never disclosed as a supernatural entity.

In fact, we are told right up front he was one of the sons of God.

Job was the son of Issachar and that entire story happened in Egypt in the land of Goshen.

The "sons of God" (a term always used of men in covenant relationship to God everywhere in the Bible...)

were gathered together and satan (adversary) was amongst them.

This is exactly the same as the tares amongst the wheat that Jesus speaks of.

In the gathering together in those days of the sons of God, they would have been worshipping with burnt sacrifices and a holy convocation, together, as always did the 'church in the wilderness'.

There are always men of corrupt minds and misdirected jealousy. The person that was in goshen amongst those who presented themselves before God, was a corrupt person. He had ulterior motives like corrupt men have. In presenting his idea before God, it was filled with envy and jealousy. The amazing thing is that whoever this man was who was 'satan', God went ahead and performed that which the satan person asked for, which was to take away all of Job's persons and possesions, and eventually his health, to see if Job was upright to God without those things.

That is what Job is about. We know that God did those things to Job. Quite the story. But a sorry attempt to prove that satan is a supernatural entity. That is ridiculous.

Revelation
[sup]9[/sup] The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

An "inner adversary" has angels? who were hurled to earth?

The Pharisees and their Nation were cast down of course, after they battled against Christ and His disciples. The Jewish fables by which they continued to persecute the seed of the woman (church) pursue us down through time even unto today, where Christians still are decieved by the Jewish doctrines and claims.

They were the ones whom Christ identified as serpents, devil, satan, den of vipers etc.

I believe Christ.

Here are his consistent disclosures which are reflected in Rev 12, take note of the "cast out" or "cast down" state of the Jews to whom He was referring to once again in Rev 12;


(Mat 8:12) But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
(Mat 21:12) And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,
(Joh 12:31) Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

It is all centered around the timing of these prophecies which all were fulfilled in AD 70 When Jesus burnt His whorish ex-wife Judah, who arrogantly widowed herself in crucifying her husband, the Lord of Glory.

(Mat 21:43)Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

The Jews of Jesus day declared war on the Gospel, and failed in destroying Jesus and His followers with the message of the gospel (aka angels)

They died. Were "cast down". they are the devil/dragon/satan/serpent according to Jesus. Their descendents still try to rub out Christianity, but are doomed to continous casting down in the presence of Christ and His followers.

So I give you Jesus' Word.

All Jesus' temptations "of the devil" came from within his carnal mind. Yes, that is the "entity". Jesus, the man. Any other idea is silliness.

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So...Jesus was carnal and His mind tried ot overtake Him in demonic temptation?

Jesus knows who His enemy is, and identifies him as the devil:


Matthew 13:39
And the enemy who sowed it is the devil. The harvest is the close and consummation of the age, and the reapers are angels.


1 Peter 5:8
Be well balanced (temperate, sober of mind), be vigilant and cautious at all times; for that enemy of yours, the devil, roams around like a lion roaring [ in fierce hunger], seeking someone to seize upon and devour.


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