Hi again John,
In Romans 9 Paul is speaking about the Jews. If you read the entire book of Romans you find that in chapter 2:17 Paul says, 'thou art called a Jew'. He continues this line of discussion all the way through 11:13 where he says, 'for I turn to you gentiles. From 2:17-11:13 Paul is speaking to the Jews about the Jews. The election that he speaks of is Israel. If you look at the context it becomes clear.
[sup]9[/sup] For
this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and
Sara shall have a son.
[sup]10[/sup] And
not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
[sup]11[/sup] (For
the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
[sup]12[/sup] It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. {elder: or, greater} {younger: or, lesser}
[sup]13[/sup] As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. (Rom 9:9-13 KJV)
When you go back an look at what Paul is addressing it is clear.
[sup]21[/sup] And Isaac intreated the LORD for his wife, because she
was barren: and the LORD was intreated of him, and Rebekah his wife conceived.
[sup]22[/sup] And the children struggled together within her; and she said, If
it be so, why
am I thus? And she went to enquire of the LORD.
[sup]23[/sup] And the LORD said unto her,
Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and
the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger. (Gen 25:21-23 KJV)
You can clearly see what Paul is addressing. Two nations were to come from Rebekah. Jacob and Esau are representative of their nations, Jacob the Israelites and Esau the Edomites. Notice we have the same words Paul quoted in Romans 9 "the elder shall serve the younger". God's election was Jacob (Israel) over Esau (the Edomites) to be the nation though which the Christ would come. Regarding Jacob have I loved and Esau have I hated, the first mention of this is in the last book of the OT, Malachi.
KJV
Malachi 1:1 The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi. {by...: Heb. by the hand of}
[sup]2[/sup] I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us?
Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD:
yet I loved Jacob,
[sup]3[/sup]
And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.
[sup]4[/sup] Whereas Edom saith, We are impoverished, but we will return and build the desolate places; thus saith the LORD of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and, The people against whom the LORD hath indignation for ever.
(Mal 1:1-4 KJV)
Consider what the Lord says here about Esau’s (Edomites) destruction with what took place.
KJV
Obadiah 1:1 The vision of Obadiah. Thus saith the Lord GOD concerning Edom; We have heard a rumour from the LORD, and an ambassador is sent among the heathen, Arise ye, and let us rise up against her in battle.
[sup]2[/sup] Behold, I have made thee small among the heathen: thou art greatly despised.
[sup]3[/sup]
The pride of thine heart hath deceived thee, thou that dwellest in the clefts of the rock, whose habitation
is high; that saith in his heart, Who shall bring me down to the ground?
[sup]4[/sup] Though thou exalt
thyself as the eagle, and though thou set thy nest among the stars, thence will I bring thee down, saith the LORD.
[sup]5[/sup] If thieves came to thee, if robbers by night, (how art thou cut off!) would they not have stolen till they had enough? if the grapegatherers came to thee, would they not leave
some grapes? {some...: or, gleanings?}
[sup]6[/sup]
How are the things of Esau searched out!
how are his hidden things sought up!
[sup]7[/sup] All the men of thy confederacy have brought thee
even to the border: the men that were at peace with thee have deceived thee,
and prevailed against thee;
they that eat thy bread have laid a wound under thee:
there is none understanding in him. {that were...: Heb. of thy peace} {they...: Heb. the men of thy bread} {in him: or, of it}
[sup]8[/sup] Shall I not in that day, saith the LORD, even destroy the wise
men out of Edom, and understanding out of the mount of Esau?
[sup]9[/sup] And thy mighty
men, O Teman, shall be dismayed, to the end that
every one of the mount of Esau may be cut off by slaughter.
[sup]10[/sup]
For thy violence against thy brother Jacob shame shall cover thee, and thou shalt be cut off for ever.
[sup]11[/sup]
In the day that thou stoodest on the other side, in the day that the strangers carried away captive his forces, and foreigners entered into his gates, and cast lots upon Jerusalem, even thou wast as one of them. {captive...: or, his substance}
[sup]12[/sup]
But thou shouldest not have looked on the day of thy brother in the day that he became a stranger; neither shouldest thou have rejoiced over the children of Judah in the day of their destruction; neither shouldest thou have spoken proudly in the day of distress. {spoken...: Heb. magnified thy mouth}
[sup]13[/sup]
Thou shouldest not have entered into the gate of my people in the day of their calamity; yea, thou shouldest not have looked on their affliction in the day of their calamity, nor have laid hands on their substance in the day of their calamity; {substance: or, forces}
[sup]14[/sup]
Neither shouldest thou have stood in the crossway, to cut off those of his that did escape; neither shouldest thou have delivered up those of his that did remain in the day of distress. {delivered up: or, shut up}
[sup]15[/sup]
For the day of the LORD is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head.
[sup]16[/sup] For as ye have drunk upon my holy mountain,
so shall all the heathen drink continually, yea, they shall drink, and they shall swallow down, and they shall be as though they had not been. {swallow...: or, sup up}
[sup]17[/sup] But upon mount Zion shall be deliverance, and there shall be holiness; and the house of Jacob shall possess their possessions. {deliverance: or, they that escape} {there...: or, it shall be holy}
[sup]18[/sup] And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame,
and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.
[sup]19[/sup]
And they of the south shall possess the mount of Esau; and
they of the plain the Philistines: and they shall possess the fields of Ephraim, and the fields of Samaria: and Benjamin
shall possess Gilead.
[sup]20[/sup] And the captivity of this host of the children of Israel
shall possess that of the Canaanites,
even unto Zarephath; and the captivity of Jerusalem, which
is in Sepharad, shall possess the cities of the south. {which...: or, shall possess that which is in}
[sup]21[/sup] And saviours shall come up on mount Zion
to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the LORD'S.
(Oba 1:1 KJV)
This is why Paul says God hated Esau; it's not that he was hated before he was born. However, It was determined which nation God would use before either was born. This is why Paul says it is not of man who wills but of God. Paul is not saying that some people are chosen for salvation and others aren't. It's clear from the context that Paul is addressing an Issue pertaining to the Jews.
