Nope. I can't disprove this. As a matter of fact, I assent to it!The Crown of Life said:
Good post.
It's important that His people say the same thing as God.
Can You Disprove This?
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Good post.
It's important that His people say the same thing as God.
Obviously you have not read too many replies. But if the op is accurate, then God is one great big hypocrite for pleading with the world to be reconciled to Him (2Cor.5:19,20). And Jesus was not serious when He declared " Come to me all who are weary and heavy laden" , or when He said ..."O Jerusalem, Jerusalem"..jeremiah1five said:
He's gotta plead to the world. That's where His elect live.williemac said:
John 17:6
6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
2 Corinthians 5:19-20
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
If God is not imputing their trespasses unto them (the world), then God has no basis to judge the world and all the world will be saved. But that's Universalism, and the Bible does not teach this.
So, there must be some something else being said here. Maybe it's the "us" in verse 19. That word shows distinction as opposed to "them." Two groups. God's elect (us) and the world (them).
Jesus' "Come unto me all ye that are heavy laden," and "O Jerusalem," is Jesus speaking to His Covenant people - Israel. He is after all, their Messiah God promised to send. He was made manifest to Israel, not the world. He came unto HIS OWN.
John 1:31
31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.
He is speaking to His Covenant people - Israel, not the world.
Israel. So, read it in that context of who He is addressing.
if our lives on this earth are "predetermined" before we are born (both rightous AND unrightous), then what is our purpose for god sending us here?
Some were predestinated, like Apostle Paul says in Romans 8. Our Lord Jesus reveals it in John 17 also.
The problem is that some men can't escape their fleshy reasoning, and misunderstand what that predestination idea of God's elect is actually about, which is usually from understanding only fragments of God's Word, and not the whole Loaf of Bread. They tend to go to extremes with the idea, confusing the concept of an elect group of servants like Christ's Apostles with everyone who believes on Christ Jesus.
In John 17 our Lord Jesus makes a distinction between two groups that were to become 'one' in Him and The Father. The first group He mentions were given Him, by The Father. The subject of His Apostles is brought up about that first group. That is showing predestination of an elect, a leadership to preach The Gospel.
Then a second group is mentioned by Jesus in John 17, those who come to Him through 'their word', i.e., by the preaching of The Gospel by His elect predestinated ones like His Apostles.
And then He speaks about both becoming 'one', put for His Body The Church. This is aligned with what He said about many being called, but few are chosen. The idea of a chosen sent one is what the word apostle means. Both are considered His elect, so what's the distinction?
Those 'called' only can still fall away.
Those 'chosen' cannot ever fall away, because He already owns these.
Both groups are 'called', but only those like His Apostles are called AND chosen.
We can easily see this difference Biblically when Jesus began choosing His Apostles, walking up to them and simply saying something like, "Follow Me". They left what they were doing and followed Him, no questions asked.
But with others that The Gospel was preached to, they had to first 'hear' The Gospel and make a choice to believe and follow, evidences of being called, but not specifically as a chosen sent one. And by their staying... in Christ, not falling away, they too are joined with His 'chosen' 'sent' elect as One Body.
Apostle Paul is a prime example of a predestinated 'chosen' sent elect, because our Lord Jesus divinely intervened with Paul's choice, essentially removing his choice by revealing Himself to Paul directly, removing all doubt. Our Lord Jesus did that while Paul (Saul) was in the very act of working for the Jews to hunt down believers on Christ Jesus. Paul even had a letter of authority from the Jews in his pocket to do that while on the way to Damascus. Thus a direct Divine intervention by The LORD in one's life is a sign of a predestinated chosen one, and it reveals God's 'ownership' of His chosen, with the ability to move them into His service regardless of their own free will.
And thus Abraham was called Friend of God, and God said He knew Jeremiah before he was born in his mother's womb.
The hard thing for many to understand is just how is it Christ's chosen sent ones can be called and chosen before they've had a chance to hear and believe using their own free will. Apostle Paul didn't use his own free will, Christ directly intervened to prove to him, i.e., direct evidence, removing all doubt. It's obvious The LORD doesn't do that for all believers on Him. It's also obvious that The LORD directly intervened in the lives of His chosen back in Old Testament times, but not with everyone. Some will say, "Well God already knew what they would do beforehand, since He knows everything, and that's how they were predestinated." But that's not really the answer either. When God suddenly intevened with His chosen, like His prophet Jeremiah, and tells him that He knew him before he was born in his mother's womb, that's implying a predestinated ownership by God that we will not fully understand until our Lord Jesus comes.
The problem is that some men can't escape their fleshy reasoning, and misunderstand what that predestination idea of God's elect is actually about, which is usually from understanding only fragments of God's Word, and not the whole Loaf of Bread. They tend to go to extremes with the idea, confusing the concept of an elect group of servants like Christ's Apostles with everyone who believes on Christ Jesus.
In John 17 our Lord Jesus makes a distinction between two groups that were to become 'one' in Him and The Father. The first group He mentions were given Him, by The Father. The subject of His Apostles is brought up about that first group. That is showing predestination of an elect, a leadership to preach The Gospel.
Then a second group is mentioned by Jesus in John 17, those who come to Him through 'their word', i.e., by the preaching of The Gospel by His elect predestinated ones like His Apostles.
And then He speaks about both becoming 'one', put for His Body The Church. This is aligned with what He said about many being called, but few are chosen. The idea of a chosen sent one is what the word apostle means. Both are considered His elect, so what's the distinction?
Those 'called' only can still fall away.
Those 'chosen' cannot ever fall away, because He already owns these.
Both groups are 'called', but only those like His Apostles are called AND chosen.
We can easily see this difference Biblically when Jesus began choosing His Apostles, walking up to them and simply saying something like, "Follow Me". They left what they were doing and followed Him, no questions asked.
But with others that The Gospel was preached to, they had to first 'hear' The Gospel and make a choice to believe and follow, evidences of being called, but not specifically as a chosen sent one. And by their staying... in Christ, not falling away, they too are joined with His 'chosen' 'sent' elect as One Body.
Apostle Paul is a prime example of a predestinated 'chosen' sent elect, because our Lord Jesus divinely intervened with Paul's choice, essentially removing his choice by revealing Himself to Paul directly, removing all doubt. Our Lord Jesus did that while Paul (Saul) was in the very act of working for the Jews to hunt down believers on Christ Jesus. Paul even had a letter of authority from the Jews in his pocket to do that while on the way to Damascus. Thus a direct Divine intervention by The LORD in one's life is a sign of a predestinated chosen one, and it reveals God's 'ownership' of His chosen, with the ability to move them into His service regardless of their own free will.
And thus Abraham was called Friend of God, and God said He knew Jeremiah before he was born in his mother's womb.
The hard thing for many to understand is just how is it Christ's chosen sent ones can be called and chosen before they've had a chance to hear and believe using their own free will. Apostle Paul didn't use his own free will, Christ directly intervened to prove to him, i.e., direct evidence, removing all doubt. It's obvious The LORD doesn't do that for all believers on Him. It's also obvious that The LORD directly intervened in the lives of His chosen back in Old Testament times, but not with everyone. Some will say, "Well God already knew what they would do beforehand, since He knows everything, and that's how they were predestinated." But that's not really the answer either. When God suddenly intevened with His chosen, like His prophet Jeremiah, and tells him that He knew him before he was born in his mother's womb, that's implying a predestinated ownership by God that we will not fully understand until our Lord Jesus comes.
Does God predestine us to have our name put into the Book of Life and then if necessary blot it out also?
Rev 3:5
A kid with a father who is a champion surfer who grows up next to the ocean and has all the lessons to be a surfer is destined to be a great surfer himself.
But later in his life he might choose a different course.
Whereas a kid who is unable to get to the ocean, may through great application find a way to become a surfer.
So God has ordained ahead of time on the basis of his complete and perfect foreknowledge which are the elect and chosen ones to receive his grace and be sons of God.
But this flat out Calvinistic idea that predestination is an unbreakable fate one way or the other with TULIP and all that rubbish that nobody believes any more, completely removes the action of the human free will in all of this.
According to the scripture the called son may through neglect lose his salvation [SIZE=medium]Hebrews 2) How shall we escape, if we neglect so great [/SIZE]salvation[SIZE=medium];[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Whereas if we seek God we might find him. Luke 11) [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh [/SIZE]find[SIZE=medium]eth[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]God knows that when he looks at certain men and their lives that they are reprobate even from the womb. But does that mean he casts them away. No. He gives them every opportunity to come to grace. He cajoles them and sends messengers, gives them a conscience and sends even his own son for their salvation. Why does God bother to do this if he has perfect foreknowledge of their demise?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]And why if he has perfect foreknowledge of a man's eternal salvation does he allow Satan to battle against him to try to destroy that salvation?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Great mysteries. If we were eternal and omniscient like God, perhaps we would understand fully.[/SIZE]
Rev 3:5
If we think of the word destiny its not like set in stone or anything.The Crown of Life said:
A kid with a father who is a champion surfer who grows up next to the ocean and has all the lessons to be a surfer is destined to be a great surfer himself.
But later in his life he might choose a different course.
Whereas a kid who is unable to get to the ocean, may through great application find a way to become a surfer.
So God has ordained ahead of time on the basis of his complete and perfect foreknowledge which are the elect and chosen ones to receive his grace and be sons of God.
But this flat out Calvinistic idea that predestination is an unbreakable fate one way or the other with TULIP and all that rubbish that nobody believes any more, completely removes the action of the human free will in all of this.
According to the scripture the called son may through neglect lose his salvation [SIZE=medium]Hebrews 2) How shall we escape, if we neglect so great [/SIZE]salvation[SIZE=medium];[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Whereas if we seek God we might find him. Luke 11) [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh [/SIZE]find[SIZE=medium]eth[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]God knows that when he looks at certain men and their lives that they are reprobate even from the womb. But does that mean he casts them away. No. He gives them every opportunity to come to grace. He cajoles them and sends messengers, gives them a conscience and sends even his own son for their salvation. Why does God bother to do this if he has perfect foreknowledge of their demise?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]And why if he has perfect foreknowledge of a man's eternal salvation does he allow Satan to battle against him to try to destroy that salvation?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Great mysteries. If we were eternal and omniscient like God, perhaps we would understand fully.[/SIZE]
I can answer your question...all I need is time. Please be patient with me. For me to understand one tenth of who God is and how he thinks, I need ten billion years...can you wait?The Crown of Life said:
God is no respecter of persons and He does not force anyone to love Him or obey Him, however they do suffer the consequences for such acts of defiance for God knows what is best for His Creation. But if He did then there would not be scripture after scripture of God being angry due to disobedience and rejecting His Son.The Crown of Life said:
He gave us free will to choose to include Him in our life or live outside His presence. When it says God foreknew us and chose us before the foundation of the world... it means that before this new earth to come all the rulers and people of God will have their places as they are now being selected from among all who enter the race as Paul puts it and are being prepared to rule and reign with Christ for the 1,000 yrs to let the fields be gleamed, then comes the new heaven and new earth in which all things will begin again.
Gen 8:22-9:1
22 While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.
KJV
Eph 3:21
21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.
KJV
Israel will always be a chosen people for God, but they will also always be made up of believing Jews and Gentiles. For even Abraham was not called a Jew or a chosen of God until after he had faith in God, he was a Chaldean. We are now spiritual Jews if we continue to abide in Christ till the end. Even the 12 sons of Jacob were of Jew and Gentile mothers yet one father... so is it with restored Jacob who will be of the promised Seed in Christ being of Jew and Gentile but one Father God.
God says that six years is planting season and the 7th year the field is left to rest. This is a principle of God and is how the earth also is planted and harvested. For 6,000 yrs it is seedtime and then comes the harvest of souls. Then the wheat and good crops are gathered in and the field(earth) is left to rest for 1,000yrs to replenish the soil. If God just decided who was going to be written in the Book of life and not a choice for us to make, then why do the angels celebrate when one comes to repentance and is saved?
Luke 15:3
10 Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.
KJV
And please know for good understanding that we can be blotted out of the book of life
Rev 3:5-6
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
KJV
Considering how we have freewill, I can say without a doubt that your future is still undetermined and believing that you will go to heaven is outright arrogant.
[SIZE=12pt]It seems the topic of this thread is about the doctrine of predestination as opposed to the doctrine of “free will.” The words “predestination or predestine” are biblical words, while “free will” is not biblical rather, it is a theological term. “Free will” should not even be in the same page as with predestination.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]IMHO, Scripture do teach the doctrine of predestination and never about the doctrine of free will, although, there are some apparent scripture texts that teach as such. However; for us to know the meaning of predestination and free will (which many Christians have no understanding at all), we have to know what the two doctrines mean, and to do that we have to go all the way back to the beginning to the Garden of Eden.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Adam as we know was created a perfect being (after creation, God said everything was good) and as long as Adam obeyed God he could live forever. Not only was Adam perfect but he was also given the “spirit” of Jesus which is an essential ingredient by which he could live forever. Then the test came and the rest is history. Why a perfect being would disobey God I have no idea but he did. Adam not only died physically but spiritually as well, that is, God also took back the “spirit” of Jesus from him. The condition of the rest of mankind is altogether different from that of Adam because, after the fall, each and every person that is to be born into this world was tainted with Adam’s sin and became subject to physical as well as spiritual death (I Corinthians 15:22).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Thus, man had to be regenerated (Titus 3:5). Regeneration or “regenesis” means “to have a new beginning” and the Greek word “anothin” means “born again” or “from above” which is found in John Chapter 3. But for anyone to become “born again” God must first elect (choose) that person to be predestinated to salvation and God did that before He created the world (Ephesians 1:4-5; 2Thessalonians 2:13). In other words, God had obligated Himself to save the elect He had chosen before the foundation of the world (Revelation 13:8). Christ had to come in the fullness of time to restore to God’s elect that which Adam lost, which was, Spiritual life.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]We read in Romans 3:10-11: “there are none righteous and there are none that seeketh after God.” If this is God’s assessment of the human race, how then can anyone say he has “free will?” This is impossibility! Or, we read in John 6:44: “no man can come to Jesus unless the Father draws him.” The word “can” is transliterated as “having no power.” Thus, the passage would read: “no man has the power to come to Jesus unless he was being drawn by the Father.” [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]On the other hand, there are those who read Deuteronomy 30: 19 and say: “Aha, there it is in black and white that we are given a choice of life or death,” or, they read of the account of the jailor in Philippi who asked the disciples what can he do to be saved? Unbeknown to these people, they do not see they are spiritually dead. A dead person has no life in himself just like the dry bones of Ezekiel 37:1-4. Man can choose what time to wake up in the morning, what color shoes to wear, or what to eat, etc., but is incapable to choose for God unless God draws him.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]THE RAISING OF LAZARUS[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]The best illustration the Bible has offered concerning “free will” is in the raising of Lazarus. Prior to going to the tomb Jesus told Martha, “I Am the resurrection and the life.” So we find Jesus where Lazarus laid and cried with a loud voice, “Lazarus come forth!” Can Lazarus hear the command of Jesus? No! Lazarus was dead. But he did come forth. What had to have happened? Jesus had to qualify him and give him life! Jesus reached into the tomb to give him life.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]As Lazarus was physically dead so are we spiritually dead (impossible for us to understand spiritual things). As Lazarus was physically deaf so are we spiritually deaf (our ears are dull in hearing the true Gospel). As Lazarus was physically blind so are we spiritually blind (we cannot see the truths of the Bible). As Lazarus was physically closed lip so are we spiritually dumb (we are incapable in speaking spiritual things).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]There are no accidentals or incidentals in Scripture. God is the Author of the Bible and the Ultimate Authority![/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]So we see in the illustration of the raising of Lazarus that Scripture does not teach “free will.” There are only apparent scripture texts that are suggested and even then, they must be read in light of the whole Bible. Did Lazarus make any contribution so that he can live again or had a choice and tell Jesus not to resurrect him? We ought to let the Holy Spirit and the Bible lead us in all truths and lean not in our own understanding.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]It is man that teaches “free will” because it makes him “feel” good that he can somehow contribute to his salvation. To confess Jesus, to believe in Jesus, to have faith in Jesus, to say the sinner’s prayer, to be baptized, and the like, are all works that man performs and they are in violation of Ephesians 2:9. And note what God had to say in Ezekiel 36:24-30, God is the prime mover and not man.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]As a reminder, the wages of sin is death. We come under the wrath of God on our own account. Therefore, God does not predestinates anyone to fall away or to commit sin, however, it is true that nothing in this world that happens without God not knowing about it or not have His hand in it (Ps. 37:23-24; Pr. 16:9; Jer. 10:23; Rev. 22:11). God is a Holy God and man is the sinner.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Aside from much prayer and to ask the Holy Spirit to give us wisdom and to open our spiritual eyes to truths, we ought to follow the rules and principles God set forth in:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]2 Timothy 3:16; I Corinthians 2:13; Mark 4:34.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]I hope and pray this post has helped in some ways. I apologize for its length as I’m not as smart and eloquent as many of you in this Christian Forum who can compress into one page what it takes me three to four pages to write.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]In Christ[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]IMHO, Scripture do teach the doctrine of predestination and never about the doctrine of free will, although, there are some apparent scripture texts that teach as such. However; for us to know the meaning of predestination and free will (which many Christians have no understanding at all), we have to know what the two doctrines mean, and to do that we have to go all the way back to the beginning to the Garden of Eden.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Adam as we know was created a perfect being (after creation, God said everything was good) and as long as Adam obeyed God he could live forever. Not only was Adam perfect but he was also given the “spirit” of Jesus which is an essential ingredient by which he could live forever. Then the test came and the rest is history. Why a perfect being would disobey God I have no idea but he did. Adam not only died physically but spiritually as well, that is, God also took back the “spirit” of Jesus from him. The condition of the rest of mankind is altogether different from that of Adam because, after the fall, each and every person that is to be born into this world was tainted with Adam’s sin and became subject to physical as well as spiritual death (I Corinthians 15:22).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Thus, man had to be regenerated (Titus 3:5). Regeneration or “regenesis” means “to have a new beginning” and the Greek word “anothin” means “born again” or “from above” which is found in John Chapter 3. But for anyone to become “born again” God must first elect (choose) that person to be predestinated to salvation and God did that before He created the world (Ephesians 1:4-5; 2Thessalonians 2:13). In other words, God had obligated Himself to save the elect He had chosen before the foundation of the world (Revelation 13:8). Christ had to come in the fullness of time to restore to God’s elect that which Adam lost, which was, Spiritual life.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]We read in Romans 3:10-11: “there are none righteous and there are none that seeketh after God.” If this is God’s assessment of the human race, how then can anyone say he has “free will?” This is impossibility! Or, we read in John 6:44: “no man can come to Jesus unless the Father draws him.” The word “can” is transliterated as “having no power.” Thus, the passage would read: “no man has the power to come to Jesus unless he was being drawn by the Father.” [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]On the other hand, there are those who read Deuteronomy 30: 19 and say: “Aha, there it is in black and white that we are given a choice of life or death,” or, they read of the account of the jailor in Philippi who asked the disciples what can he do to be saved? Unbeknown to these people, they do not see they are spiritually dead. A dead person has no life in himself just like the dry bones of Ezekiel 37:1-4. Man can choose what time to wake up in the morning, what color shoes to wear, or what to eat, etc., but is incapable to choose for God unless God draws him.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]THE RAISING OF LAZARUS[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]The best illustration the Bible has offered concerning “free will” is in the raising of Lazarus. Prior to going to the tomb Jesus told Martha, “I Am the resurrection and the life.” So we find Jesus where Lazarus laid and cried with a loud voice, “Lazarus come forth!” Can Lazarus hear the command of Jesus? No! Lazarus was dead. But he did come forth. What had to have happened? Jesus had to qualify him and give him life! Jesus reached into the tomb to give him life.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]As Lazarus was physically dead so are we spiritually dead (impossible for us to understand spiritual things). As Lazarus was physically deaf so are we spiritually deaf (our ears are dull in hearing the true Gospel). As Lazarus was physically blind so are we spiritually blind (we cannot see the truths of the Bible). As Lazarus was physically closed lip so are we spiritually dumb (we are incapable in speaking spiritual things).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]There are no accidentals or incidentals in Scripture. God is the Author of the Bible and the Ultimate Authority![/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]So we see in the illustration of the raising of Lazarus that Scripture does not teach “free will.” There are only apparent scripture texts that are suggested and even then, they must be read in light of the whole Bible. Did Lazarus make any contribution so that he can live again or had a choice and tell Jesus not to resurrect him? We ought to let the Holy Spirit and the Bible lead us in all truths and lean not in our own understanding.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]It is man that teaches “free will” because it makes him “feel” good that he can somehow contribute to his salvation. To confess Jesus, to believe in Jesus, to have faith in Jesus, to say the sinner’s prayer, to be baptized, and the like, are all works that man performs and they are in violation of Ephesians 2:9. And note what God had to say in Ezekiel 36:24-30, God is the prime mover and not man.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]As a reminder, the wages of sin is death. We come under the wrath of God on our own account. Therefore, God does not predestinates anyone to fall away or to commit sin, however, it is true that nothing in this world that happens without God not knowing about it or not have His hand in it (Ps. 37:23-24; Pr. 16:9; Jer. 10:23; Rev. 22:11). God is a Holy God and man is the sinner.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Aside from much prayer and to ask the Holy Spirit to give us wisdom and to open our spiritual eyes to truths, we ought to follow the rules and principles God set forth in:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]2 Timothy 3:16; I Corinthians 2:13; Mark 4:34.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]I hope and pray this post has helped in some ways. I apologize for its length as I’m not as smart and eloquent as many of you in this Christian Forum who can compress into one page what it takes me three to four pages to write.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]In Christ[/SIZE]
Hi In Christ,
Welcome to CyB
"Free will" may not be a word found in the bible but neither is the word "Trinity" and many other words that we have coined. I personally believe that God has given us a free will along with God choosing some whom he calls "the elect." I believe that the elect are God's chosen people Israel and the free will believers are those whom God drew by grace through faith ie: Gentile believers. Romans 11:1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. Romans 11:17, 18, 19, 20, 21.
Please note Ephesians 1
3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace 8 that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding, 9 he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ.
11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12 in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.
1. Who were the first to put their hope in Christ?
2. Who is the group he is referring to in verse13?
Back later...Shalom!
Added: I have included a little dispute that occurred when Peter rose up against those who believed that the Gentiles coming to salvation, needed to be circumcised...
Acts 15
6 Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter. 7 And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.”
Welcome to CyB
"Free will" may not be a word found in the bible but neither is the word "Trinity" and many other words that we have coined. I personally believe that God has given us a free will along with God choosing some whom he calls "the elect." I believe that the elect are God's chosen people Israel and the free will believers are those whom God drew by grace through faith ie: Gentile believers. Romans 11:1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. Romans 11:17, 18, 19, 20, 21.
Please note Ephesians 1
3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace 8 that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding, 9 he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ.
11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12 in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.
1. Who were the first to put their hope in Christ?
2. Who is the group he is referring to in verse13?
Back later...Shalom!
Added: I have included a little dispute that occurred when Peter rose up against those who believed that the Gentiles coming to salvation, needed to be circumcised...
Acts 15
6 Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter. 7 And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.”
That's using your own reasoning on the matter instead of staying with how God's Word reveals the idea of those who are predestinated, called and chosen. From the start of God's Word within Gen.13 about the Seed of the Woman, the idea of a chosen predestinated elect begins being revealed and is impossible to miss.excubitor said:
Yes!The Crown of Life said:
2 Peter 3:8-9
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
It would be against God's own will to create people to go to hell with no chance to repent.
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