Just heard about the rosary....

Selene · Jun 4, 2012

Angelina said:
Jesus was not praying to them...he was talking to them

Praying is the same thing as talking. It is a form of communication.

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,

Now you show me where it states that those who have passed into heaven can pray for those who are still on earth...

Christ said that the greatest commandment is to love God and the second is like it...to love your neighbor as yourself. When a Christian dies, he/she does not stop loving God nor does he/she stop loving others. The saints continue to love us by interceding for us. Yes, Christ is one Mediator, but praying for one another doesn't take away His role as one mediator. Why? Because the Bible says to pray for one another. What is bound on earth is also bound in Heaven.

Also, you still have not answered my question. Since you believe that your father is in Heaven, how is he dead? Scripture says that those who believe in our Lord Jesus Christ will have eternal life in His kingdom. So, how is it that your father in Heaven dead? We believe that death does not exist in Heaven. The souls there have eternal life. And these souls (and even angels) in Heaven can intercede for us because they are alive. They can offer our prayers to God.

Revelations 5:8 And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.

Revelations 8:3-4 Another angel, who had a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense to offer, with the prayers of all the saints, on the golden altar before the throne. The smoke of the incense, together with the prayers of the saints, went up before God from the angel's hand.

Both the souls and angels in Heaven can offer up the prayers of the saints on earth to God.

Angelina · Jun 4, 2012

My quote

Matthew 17:3
And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him.

Your quote:

What is the difference? They were no longer living on Earth, yet they were alive - they sound like saints to me. Jesus spoke with them in the exact same way that the majority of Christians speak to other saints.

Because their purpose of appearing has nothing to do with us praying to the saints already gone into heaven. Please read that verse in context...

My quote

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,
Now you show me where it states that those who have passed into heaven can pray for those who are still on earth...

Not unless you are willing to show me a verse that tells us not to ask others for prayer. If you really believe we are one Body, you know that we are still connected to those whose life has ended on Earth and continued in Heaven.

Asking for prayer of other believers here on earth, is scriptural...asking those who have gone into heaven to pray for us, is not...I believe we are one body but that does not mean that we should communicate with those already in heaven. There is no-where in the bible that says that we can do that nor is there any example accept for Elijah and Moses and that meeting represented the end of the law and the prophets...It had nothing to do with anything else.

My quote

You know again...full well what I mean. The bible speaks of salvation. That is the gospel message...

Which is not limited to the written word.

...no...it is not. It also includes the administration of the Holy Spirit.

My quote

The Holy spirit is the guarantee of our redemption

Your quote:

Guarantee? What relationship is guaranteed? I think the OT show us plainly that God required us to participate in our relationship with Him.

Our relationship with Jesus is guaranteed by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

My quote

So...Romans is not an acceptable part of the bible now...and Acts...Jesus was not alive during the days of acts either...do you wipe Acts out of the equation also???
Another book bites the dust...
...and there we have it... ^_^

Your quote:

I see - so because I am stating the truth about the three books you listed - that they were not written or canonized until 200 years later - you have decided that I must not view them as the word of God. Of course, you are missing my point completely - fact is, all three of those books were part of oral Tradition before they were ever written down or canonized. Yes they are inspired; no, not because they were written down. It is myour limitation (only accepting the written word as authoritative) that causes you to doubt my belief in God's word - not mine.

Why did you say it then, you were dismissing these books as if they were irrelevant and yet you also know [as I do] that they are inspired by God. If they were not, they would not be in the bible today???

My quote

Yes he was...because it was Abraham who was appealing to God on behalf of that city and not Moses [and he was not praying to God either]

Your quote:

So how was Abraham communicating with God, if not in prayer? You know very well that Moses negotiated with God regarding the destruction of the people He lead out of Israel, many times. And you know my point - that God allows for negotiation.

Moses was a shadow of Jesus [a type] He interceded on behalf of the people so that God would not destroy them. God is not unjust. If a nation repents, he will relent concerning the judgment had passed on them formerly. Note: Jonah and Nineveh.

My quote

...no she wasn't...Abraham was...

Your quote:

Abraham was a Jew - he was not excused from making sacrifices

No he wasn't...Abraham was from Ur of the Chaldeans. The Hebrew nation did not exist during Abrahams time...

Your quote:

Mary was the first person to have Jesus inside her - she was the first Christian.

Matthew 12
[sup]46 [/sup]While He was still talking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers stood outside, seeking to speak with Him. [sup]47 [/sup]Then one said to Him, “Look, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, seeking to speak with You.”
[sup]48 [/sup]But He answered and said to the one who told Him, “Who is My mother and who are My brothers?” [sup]49 [/sup]And He stretched out His hand toward His disciples and said, “Here are My mother and My brothers!

Abraham had the Gospel preached to him 42 generations before the birth of Christ [Matthew 1:17]

Galatians 3:8
And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.”

Shalom!!!

Hey Selene!

Praying is the same thing as talking. It is a form of communication

please note the differences>>>

Matthew 17:3
And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him.

John 17
17 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, [sup]2 [/sup]as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. [sup]3 [/sup]And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. [sup]4 [/sup]I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. [sup]5 [/sup]And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

Revelations 5:8 And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.

Revelations 8:3-4 Another angel, who had a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense to offer, with the prayers of all the saints, on the golden altar before the throne. The smoke of the incense, together with the prayers of the saints, went up before God from the angel's hand.

The prayer of the saints are prayers that believers on earth have prayed...what has that got to do with anything???
Interpreting the book of Revelation has been an eschatological challenge to many prophets and scholars because it possibly borders between literal and figurative...who can truly understand it??? :huh:

Bless you!!!

Selene · Jun 4, 2012

Angelina said:
Hey Selene!

please note the differences>>>

Matthew 17:3
And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him.

John 17
17 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, [sup]2 [/sup]as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. [sup]3 [/sup]And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. [sup]4 [/sup]I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. [sup]5 [/sup]And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

Bless you!!!

There is no difference. Prayer is communicating. In here, Jesus communicates with His Father. When we pray the "Our Father", we are ASKING God to forgive us our sins as we forgive those who trespass against us." When we pray to Mary, we are ASKING Mary to pray for us. All this is communication. That's what prayers really are. It's all about relationship. Communication and relationship go together. God wants us to have a relationship with Him, but He also wants us to have a relationship with ALL our brothers and sisters. Thus, the commandment - Love God and Love your neighbor as yourself.

Angelina · Jun 4, 2012

When we pray to Mary, we are ASKING Mary to pray for us. All this is communication

Why pray to Mary??? no one else on earth did when she was here. Why pray to her now???
It is true God wants us to have a relationship with him...but who said anything about Mary? :huh:
Do you worship Mary also??? So other believers who have gone into heaven...they are my neighbors???
Interesting!!!

Shalom!!!

Selene · Jun 4, 2012

Angelina said:
Why pray to Mary??? no one else on earth did when she was here. Why pray to her now???
It is true God wants us to have a relationship with him...but who said anything about Mary? :huh:
Do you worship Mary also???

Shalom!!!

No, Catholics don't worship Mary. We're only doing what Jesus did because He is the WAY. Jesus followed the fourth commandment perfectly. He honored His mother and Father perfectly. He honored His Father God and He also honored His mother Mary. Christ was not a disobedient son to His mother. He was the perfect son and He followed God's commandment perfectly - honor your mother and father. He honored His mother perfectly and even gave her the honor of being called "blessed" for all generations. And we do call Mary "blessed." We fulfill that prophecy. Christ honored His mother, so we followed Him in this example and honored His mother too.

Angelina · Jun 4, 2012

Then why is there statues of Mary in your Churches and why is Jesus still depicted as being on the cross when he is not on the cross... :huh:

HE HAS RISEN!!!

Shalom!!!

Mungo · Jun 4, 2012

Angelina said:
Mungo...he knows how to pray for himself. This was a time set aside by the Pastor, for people to come up the front to be prayed for, if they wanted to. He asked for prayer... ^_^
It is good to pray to God alone in the inner closet but there is also power in corporate prayer....

That is exactly the point.

People ask to be prayed for.

We ask the Saints to pray for us.

Your Pastor (and others) asked for prayers.

We ask for prayers.

Why do you have such a problem with that?

Selene · Jun 4, 2012

Angelina said:
Then why is there statues of Mary in your Churches and why is Jesus still depicted as being on the cross when he is not on the cross... :huh:

HE HAS RISEN!!!

Shalom!!!

We have images of Mary in our Churches for the same reason why you have images of your husband and children in your home. Mary and all the saints in Heaven are our family. We are the sons and daughters of God. Jesus is our brother and Mary is our mother. This is our family. As for Christ on the cross, this is a memorial for us to remind us of how much Christ loves us. Yes, He is risen. But how much did He loved us? He loved us so much that He died for us. I wear a crucifx around my neck as a reminder of His love. The more I look at what He had to go through to save us, the more I repent of my sins and become closer to God.

Angelina · Jun 4, 2012

Because you are asking people of God who has already entered heaven to pray for you and it ain't scriptural...that is why. :huh:

I've truly enjoyed this tag preaching from the Catholic persuasion...thanks for that but I must get to bed now as it is late here and I have work in the morning...

Bless you all and thank you ^_^

Matthew 12
[sup]46 [/sup]While He was still talking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers stood outside, seeking to speak with Him. [sup]47 [/sup]Then one said to Him, “Look, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, seeking to speak with You.”
[sup]48 [/sup]But He answered and said to the one who told Him, “Who is My mother and who are My brothers?” [sup]49 [/sup]And He stretched out His hand toward His disciples and said, “Here are My mother and My brothers!

Luke 11
[sup]27 [/sup]As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, “Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you.”
[sup]28 [/sup]He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”

Blessings!!!

Selene · Jun 4, 2012

Angelina said:
Because you are asking people of God who has already entered heaven to pray for you and it ain't scriptural...that is why. :huh:

The Bible says to pray for one another. It did not say, pray for one another on earth. Where does it say that we are to ask only those on earth to pray for us?

Mungo · Jun 4, 2012

Angelina said:
Then why is there statues of Mary in your Churches and why is Jesus still depicted as being on the cross when he is not on the cross... :huh:

HE HAS RISEN!!!

Shalom!!!

Jesus is depicted as being on the Cross because it's in the cross that supremely shows God's love for us.

Indeed, only with difficulty does one die for a just person, though perhaps for a good person one might even find courage to die. But God proves his love for us in that while we were still sinners Christ died for us. (Rom 5:7-8)

"he loved us and sent his Son as expiation for our sins." (1Jn 4:

Paul Preached Christ Crucified:

For Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we proclaim Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles (1Cor 1:23)

When I came to you, brothers, proclaiming the mystery of God, I did not come with sublimity of words or of wisdom. For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ, and him crucified. (1Cor 2:1-2)

O stupid Galatians! Who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? (Gal 3:1)

aspen · Jun 4, 2012

Angelina - if you are still asking questions like 'do you worship Mary'? This conversation has deteriorated into 'I am right no matter what because I believe the Bible! and Catholic are wrong because they don't!'

The astronaut Buzz Aldrian is a cranky, old man - now I see why - I feel the pain he has experienced trying to convince people that we really did land on the moon......

Angelina · Jun 4, 2012

I'm sure that people can work it out for themselves....
You defend your denomination more than you defend the truth...which is found in the word of God... ^_^

Shalom!!!

aspen · Jun 4, 2012

Angelina said:
I'm sure that people can work it out for themselves....
You defend your denomination more than you defend the truth...which is found in the word of God... ^_^

Shalom!!!

false dichotomy

blessings!!!

Ace Michaels · Jul 27, 2012

Lively Stone said:
That's what is put out about it, but in actuality, the rosary is a thing, and the prayer associated with it is not true prayer, but is a recitation and not directed to God, but to Mary, who cannot receive prayer.

I am sorry to see your ignorance of the rosary and its use. The rosary glorifies Jesus Christ, not Mary!

Green Lantern · Jul 28, 2012

I address this issue in detail here:

http://w11,zetaboards.com/Sola_Scriptura_Alone/topic/7849943/1/?x/0#post8042266

aspen · Jul 28, 2012

Ace Michaels said:
I am sorry to see your ignorance of the rosary and its use. The rosary glorifies Jesus Christ, not Mary!

I agree.

Green Lantern said:
I address this issue in detail here:

http://w11,zetaboard...x/0#post8042266

link does not work

Foreigner · Jul 28, 2012

Selene said:
The Bible says to pray for one another. It did not say, pray for one another on earth. Where does it say that we are to ask only those on earth to pray for us?

-- Yup. That's typical. That's the standard line I head in my 20-plus years I was a Catholic when I asked HOW they know a specific practice is acceptable.

You ask where in the Bible it says it is okay to do or believe something and their reply is "Where in the Bible does it say it's NOT okay."

Translation: Anything they choose to believe that the Bible doesn't say specifically is wrong is automatically acceptable and can become Doctrine.
As the Church Lady says, "How conveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeenient."

It doesn't say Mary was taken into heaven alive and bodily.........."Doesn't say she wasn't."
Doesn't say Mary never had any other children after Jesus was born........."Doesn't say she did"
Doesn't say we should pray to Mary........."Doesn't say we shouldn't"
Doesn't say Purgatory is a real place........."Doesn't say it isn't"
Jesus said "break bread in memory of me" not, "when you do this,it actually becomes me." Where do you come off thinking it is actually him?........."The Bible doesn't say is ISN'T actually him."

Ace Michaels said:
I am sorry to see your ignorance of the rosary and its use. The rosary glorifies Jesus Christ, not Mary!

-- Yeah. That is why there are 10 "Hail Mary's" to every one "Our Father" in every Decade.

And just for the record, the "Our Father" was what Jesus Himself told us was the correct way to pray.
Apparently, Catholics feel they have found a better way.

I love it when they reply to that with "He didn't say that was the ONLY way to pray" and I laughingly reply with "He didn't say it wasn't"

.

aspen · Jul 28, 2012

the Bible doesn't say it is the sole authority either.

Tradition + Bible = authority.

Finally, even if Catholic Tradition is not explicitly written in the Bible - if it does contradict scripture there is nothing wrong with it.

Foreigner · Jul 28, 2012

aspen2 said:
the Bible doesn't say it is the sole authority either.

Tradition + Bible = authority.

Finally, even if Catholic Tradition is not explicitly written in the Bible - if it does contradict scripture there is nothing wrong with it.

-- Aspen, you are really in no position whatsoever to comment on this topic.
The Pope has not sanctioned the Rosary, (or the communion turning into the actual body of Christ, or the right to ask the dead in heaven to pray for you) "ex patria."
You yourself said that if the Pope didn't say it "ex patria" than it is "just his opinion."

And if history tells us anything, labeling something as "tradition" does not automatically make it right.

And the "if it doesn't contraditict scripture, there is nothing wrong with it" doesn't fly either.
It wouldn't contradict scripture if you chose to sell your children into slavery....

Just heard about the rosary....

New Member

Prayer Warrior

New Member

Prayer Warrior

New Member

Prayer Warrior

Well-Known Member

New Member

Prayer Warrior

New Member

Well-Known Member

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

Prayer Warrior

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

New Member

New Member

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

New Member

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

New Member

Similar threads