Just heard about the rosary....

proskuneō
pros-koo-neh'-o
From G4314 and probably a derivative of G2965 (meaning to kiss, like a dog licking his master’s hand); to fawn or crouch to, that is, (literally or figuratively) prostrate oneself in homage (do reverence to, adore): - worship.

Mat 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Satan wanted Jesus to worship and adore him. To reverence him and prostrate Himself before him.

Does any of this sound familiar?

Adore
Prostrate
Reverence


Read this very carefully:

But since the salvation of our race was accomplished by the mystery of the Cross, and since the Church, dispenser of that salvation after the triumph of Christ, was founded upon earth and instituted, Providence established a new order for a new people. The consideration of the Divine counsels is united to the great sentiment of religion. The Eternal Son of God, about to take upon Him our nature for the saving and ennobling of man, and about to consummate thus a mystical union between Himself and all mankind, did not accomplish His design without adding there the free consent of the elect Mother, who represented in some sort all human kind, according to the illustrious and just opinion of St. Thomas, who says that the Annunciation was effected with the consent of the Virgin standing in the place of humanity.(5) With equal truth may it be also affirmed that, by the will of God, Mary is the intermediary through whom is distributed unto us this immense treasure of mercies gathered by God, for mercy and truth were created by Jesus Christ.(6) Thus as no man goeth to the Father but by the Son, so no man goeth to Christ but by His Mother. How great are the goodness and mercy revealed in this design of God!

Axehead

Instead of bagging anothers church...maybe we should try to understand that church and not rely on heresay...seek out the truth, visit one a few times, try to understand we all worship the same God on here and try to show God's love toward another...being rude just makes another close off anything you have to say...We can all disagree on doctrine...we can all think we have all the answers...but guess what...we do not have the answers to all things, we are not God and we should not be judging our brother or sister on what church they want to worship in...I have been in Spirit filled Catholic churches and was stunned by the flow of the Spirit...No worship of Mary all the Glory was to the Lord...and I have been in some that were as dry as bones, not only Catholic but Baptist, Methodist as well...
I am not sure that this is true.
I don't worship a God that says we have to submit to a pope.
I agree with a pope that tells me to worship God.

I don't worship a God that says that going to mass earns you salvation brownie points.
I don't go to Mass to earn salvation points, I go to Mass because it helps me to be a better person.

I don't worship a God that says I have to go to confession once a week.
I must go to confession if I feel separated from God. Monthly confession is a devotion that leads me to greater holiness. The minimum requirement is once a year.

I don't worship a God that says the priest has to be obeyed.
Obey what? When he says to obey the Ten Commandments? BTW, Protestant pastors have far more control over the private lives of their flock than do priests. It's sugar coated with what they call "accountability" I've seen "The Mercy Seat" used in fundamentalist cults. Talk about spiritual abuse.

I don't worship a God that wants me to worship Mary.
Oh, please...not you too!

I don't worship a God who calls Mary the queen of heaven.
You have a King without a queen?

I don't worship a God who says I have to pray to Mary.
Nobody ever told me I ever I had to pray to anybody. It's not mandatory. But it's effective.

I don't worship a God who says we get our salvation through Mary.
Jesus, our salvation, became one of us through Mary, unless you have a different version of how Jesus got here.

I don't worship a God that wants me to say the rosary.
Nobody has to say the rosary.

I don't worship a God that winks at child abusing priests.
Is that what you think?

I don't worship a God who approves of graven images.
Then get rid of Christan jewelry, crosses, Christian CD's with "graven images" of the artists faces on them, fish symbols on bumper stickers, "graven images" on T shirts etc.

I don't worship a God who asks his priests to dress up like women.
Pants were not popular until the middle ages. Rev. 1:13, 4:4, 6:11, 7:9, 15:6, 19:13-14 - priests wear special vestments in heaven. Our priests also wear special vestments in celebrating the Holy Mass on earth. Jewish priests wore special vestments.
Exod 28:6-14 That looks far more elaborate than any vestment a priest wears, or the pope for that matter. .


I don't worship a God that who supports clergy that ignore scripture by being called father.
This is the mark of a fundamentalist.

I don't worship a God that has purgatory on the calendar.
I worship a God that harmonizes his justice with his mercy.

I don't worship a God that overseas a church which owns property worth billions.
That is a lie. The CIA World Fact book says differently.

As far as the heresay accusation, I worked in the catholic system for two years. I met lovely people and I met people particularly priests who thought they were God's gift to the church and had to be obeyed without question, and if you didn't, you either got overlooked for promotion or were sacked and thinking for yourself was considered a sin. One thing that did surprise me was that I have never met such foul mouthed people as some of the catholics that I worked with.
How can foul mouthed people be lovely?

If people want to be involved with the RC church, be my guest, but I am not going to be told that what I believe is heresy if it differs with the RC church and I have to keep quiet because it might offend someoone's sensibilities.
Well my dear, you have offended my sensibilities, with a shot blast of falsehoods and preconceived notions. Please use a single slug in your shot gun shells when firing them off so an adequate answer can be given. I had to be brief in replying otherwise the reply adequately would be 5 miles long. If you would like me to elaborate on any of my replies, I will, but please, ONE AT A TIME.

I welcome any challenge to my faith because you don't know what you believe until you are challenged and have to give an account of your faith. If that is a problem to you, perhaps it would be better to stay out of the public arena.
Why would you post something if you were unsure it was true? Is that a disclaimer or an excuse?

Priest Gives Positive Review of Alister Mcgrath's (Protestant) New Book: CHRISTIANITY'S DANGEROUS IDEA

Kepha, that is an incorrect statement. We don't worship the same God.

You worship a god that says that the Eucharist is the actual body, blood and divinity of Jesus Christ. That is idolatry.

You worship a god that requires you to believe things that go against Scripture.

My God dwells in us by His Spirit not in a small "tabernacle" on the altar in a church building.

Paul is standing in the midst of the Aeropagus and he says,"God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
" Acts 17:24

From the Catholic Catechism:

Para 1365: “Because it is the memorial of Christ's Passover, the Eucharist is also a sacrifice. The sacrificial character of the Eucharist is manifested in the very words of institution: ‘This is my body which is given for you’ and ‘This cup which is poured out for you is the New Covenant in my blood.’ In the Eucharist Christ gives us the very body which he gave up for us on the cross, the very blood which he ‘poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.’”

Para 1368: The Eucharist is also the sacrifice of the Church. The Church which is the Body of Christ participates in the offering of her Head. With him, she herself is offered whole and entire. She unites herself to his intercession with the Father for all men. In the Eucharist the sacrifice of Christ becomes also the sacrifice of the members of his Body. The lives of the faithful, their praise, sufferings, prayer, and work, are united with those of Christ and with his total offering, and so acquire a new value. Christ's sacrifice present on the altar makes it possible for all generations of Christians to be united with his offering.

Para 1376: “The Council of Trent summarizes the Catholic faith by declaring: ‘Because Christ our Redeemer said that it was truly his body that he was offering under the species of bread, it has always been the conviction of the Church of God, and this holy Council now declares again, that by the consecration of the bread and wine there takes place a change of the whole substance of the bread into the substance of the body of Christ our Lord and of the whole substance of the wine into the substance of his blood. This change the holy Catholic Church has fittingly and properly called transubstantiation.’"

Para 1377: “The Eucharistic presence of Christ begins at the moment of the consecration and endures as long as the Eucharistic species subsist. Christ is present whole and entire in each of the species and whole and entire in each of their parts, in such a way that the breaking of the bread does not divide Christ.”

Para 1378: “Worship of the Eucharist. In the liturgy of the Mass we express our faith in the real presence of Christ under the species of bread and wine by, among other ways, genuflecting or bowing deeply as a sign of adoration of the Lord. ‘The Catholic Church has always offered and still offers to the sacrament of the Eucharist the cult of adoration, not only during Mass, but also outside of it, reserving the consecrated hosts with the utmost care, exposing them to the solemn veneration of the faithful, and carrying them in procession.’"

Para 2181: “The Sunday Eucharist is the foundation and confirmation of all Christian practice. For this reason the faithful are obliged to participate in the Eucharist on days of obligation, unless excused for a serious reason (for example, illness, the care of infants) or dispensed by their own pastor. Those who deliberately fail in this obligation commit a grave sin.”

Hebrews 7:26-27: For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens; who does not need daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the people’s, for this He did once for all when He offered up Himself.

Hebrews 9:24-28: For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another— He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many.

Hebrews 10:14: For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

1 Peter 3:18a: For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God


Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Axehead

Axehead,Paul's speech at Areopagus was about idol gods that the Arthenians worshipped.

Hi neophyte,

Here we are again with you insisting on a definition of 'the Church' which is completely different from that understood by the apostles, revealed for us by our brothers Peter - 1 Pet 1 and 2, and Paul at the ends of Ephesians 1 and 2, 1 Cor 10:12 - 1 Cor 14, Heb 12 and Rom 12.


Hi Axehead,

Para 1368: The Eucharist is also the sacrifice of the Church. The Church which is the Body of Christ participates in the offering of her Head. With him, she herself is offered whole and entire. She unites herself to his intercession with the Father for all men. In the Eucharist the sacrifice of Christ becomes also the sacrifice of the members of his Body. The lives of the faithful, their praise, sufferings, prayer, and work, are united with those of Christ and with his total offering, and so acquire a new value. Christ's sacrifice present on the altar makes it possible for all generations of Christians to be united with his offering.

Click to expand...

Thank you for bringing this to public attention. It is a masterpiece of deception. I actually feel sick. It is said that if you're going to tell a lie, tell a big one, and thankfully this is so far from the revelation of scripture, that anyone who compares the two with the help of the Holy Spirit, ought to be able to see the theme which you begain in the verses you quoted, showing that Jesus Christ, by Himself, was the whole sacrifice.

John 1:26 John [the baptist] answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there stands one among you, whom ye know not;
27 He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose.
28 These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing.
29 The next day John sees Jesus coming unto him, and said, Behold the Lamb of God, which takes away the sin of the world.
30 This is he of whom I said, After me comes a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.
31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.
32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said to me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizes with the Holy Ghost.
34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
35 Again the next day after John stood, and two of his disciples;
36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he said, Behold the Lamb of God!
37 And the two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus.
38 Then Jesus turned, and saw them following, and saith unto them, What seek ye?
They said to him, Rabbi, (which is to say, being interpreted, Master,) where dwellest thou?
39 He said to them, Come and see. They came and saw where he dwelt, and abode with him that day: for it was about the tenth hour.
40 One of the two which heard John [speak], and followed him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother.
41 He first finds his own brother Simon, and said to him, We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ.


Revelation 7:9 - 17
After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; and cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sits upon the throne, and to the Lamb.

And all the angels stood round about the throne, and [about] the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, [be] to our God for ever and ever. Amen.

And one of the elders answered, saying to me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
And I said to him, Sir, thou knowest.
And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sits on the throne shall dwell among them.
They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them to living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.


In his first epistle, John the apostle defines the separation between us and God, and the relationship He is desiring with us:

1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.

Zephaniah 3:17 The LORD thy God in the midst of thee [is] mighty; he will save, he will rejoice over thee with joy; he will rest in his love, he will joy over thee with singing.


Paul writes:
Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you all present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, [which is] your reasonable service.

2 And be not conformed to this world: but all of you, be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you all may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

John the apostle writes:
1 John 4:15 Whoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwells in him, and he in God.
16 And we have known and believed the love that God has to us. God is love; and he that dwells in love dwells in God, and God in him.
17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.


Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed to men once to die, but after this the judgment.


Paul writes:
1 Corinthians 3:7 So then neither is he that plants any thing, neither he that waters; but God that gives the increase.
8 Now he that plants and he that waters are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
9 For we are labourers together with God: you all are God's husbandry, [you all are] God's building.

10 According to the grace of God which is given to me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another builds thereon. But let every man take heed how he builds thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he has built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

16 Know ye not that you all are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwells in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] you all are.

18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
20 And again, The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.
21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours... '


Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ lives in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

1 Peter 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live to righteousness: by whose stripes you all were healed.
25 For you all were as sheep going astray; but are now returned to the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

I don't worship a God that says I have to go to confession once a week. - Axehead
I must go to confession if I feel separated from God. Monthly confession is a devotion that leads me to greater holiness. The minimum requirement is once a year. - Kepha

-- God does not send us to a Confessional. You are to confess your sins to God every day when you find yourself on your knees.
The Bible says we should confess our sins to each other, but that is mainly to seek guidance, advice, and assistance.
The Bible does not say it has to be to a priest and a priest alone. And the priest does not decide whether your sins are forgiven or not. God looks at your heart and He alone decides.
If you are waiting a week, let alone a year to confess your sins, you are allowing the barrier of sin to remain in place for too long at any one time, making your walk ineffectual.



I don't worship a God that says the priest has to be obeyed. - Axehead
Obey what? When he says to obey the Ten Commandments? BTW, Protestant pastors have far more control over the private lives of their flock than do priests. - Kepha

-- Really?
Protestant pastors can require confession to them in person or else no forgiveness?
Require an exact number of specific prayers be said after confession if they want the confession to be accepted?
Deny people communion if they are not members of the church or if they participate in activities counter to church doctrine?
Try again.



I don't worship a God that wants me to worship Mary. - Axehead
Oh, please...not you too! - Kepha

-- So Mary is the queen of Heaven, you pray to her....but you don't worship her?
Oh please...not you too!



I don't worship a God who calls Mary the queen of heaven. - Axehead
You have a King without a queen? - Kepha

-- So Mary is now on par with Almighty God. That is as disgusting as it is incorrect.
Nowhere does God call Mary "the queen of heaven." That is a Catholic invention.



I don't worship a God who says I have to pray to Mary. - Axehead
Nobody ever told me I ever I had to pray to anybody. It's not mandatory. But it's effective. - Kepha

-- Jesus said in Matt. "When you pray..." not "If you pray..."
So you feel prayers to Jesus are not mandatory, but prayers to those who are not Jesus are just fine?
Yeah, good luck with that.



I don't worship a God who says we get our salvation through Mary. - Axehead
Jesus, our salvation, became one of us through Mary, unless you have a different version of how Jesus got here. - Kepha

-- Yes, the accurate version. Jesus got here through the actions of the Holy Spirit. Mary was a vessel, nothing more.
Without the Holy Spirit, Mary would have had nothing to contribute to Christ coming into the world.
With every false emphasis Catholics put on Mary, they diminish the Holy Spirit who is God.



I don't worship a God that wants me to say the rosary. - Axehead
Nobody has to say the rosary. - Kepha

-- Close. Nobody SHOULD pray the Rosary.
Any device that will have you say the Hail Mary 53 times but says the Our Father - the way Jesus Himself actually TAUGHT us to pray - only six times, taking the emphasis away from God and places it on someone other than Him, should be avoided at all cost.



I don't worship a God who approves of graven images. - Axehead
Then get rid of Christan jewelry, crosses, Christian CD's with "graven images" of the artists faces on them, fish symbols on bumper stickers, "graven images" on T shirts etc. - Kepha

-- Have been to more than one Catholic event where the statue of Mary holding baby Jesus is held while the congregation lines up to kiss her feet. Have seen the same with a huge crucifix of Jesus during Easter.
If you can't see the difference between that and someone wearing a cross.....



I don't worship a God that has purgatory on the calendar. - Axehead
I worship a God that harmonizes his justice with his mercy. - Kepha

-- Yet this is a God who, on more than one occasion, has show that His mercy IS his justice.



I don't worship a God that overseas a church which owns property worth billions. - Axehead
That is a lie. The CIA World Fact book says differently. - Kepha

-- Get real.
A survey by Georgetown University found that there are 17,644 parishes in the U.S. http://cara.georgeto...hurchstats.html
If each - with it's church and rectory and parking lot - has a value of just $100,000 (less than the cost of the average home) then you have property values of more than $1,7 BILLION in the U.S. alone.

When you consider that - according to the survey - more than one-third also have schools with classrooms, gymnasiums, etc., you are looking at an incredibly conservative estimate of over $2 BILLION worth of Vatican land holdings in the United States alone.





.

Hi Foreigner,

Interesting post. Thanks. I enjoyed it.


Romans 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.


These next two verses are a post script to my previous post.

Paul speaking:

Acts 20:27 For I have not shunned to declare to you all the counsel of God.
28 Take heed therefore to yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost has made you overseers,
to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.


1 Timothy 2: [pray] ... that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3 For this [is] good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Hi neophyte,

You are quite correct that there is only one Church, but you are incorrect to assume it is peopled only by Catholics.

it, not churches, as found in the Protestant churches

Click to expand...

Yep! There are Church members all through those denominations. You know... people who have God as their Father?

dragonfly said:

Hi Foreigner,

Interesting post. Thanks. I enjoyed it.

Romans 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.


These next two verses are a post script to my previous post.

Paul speaking:

Acts 20:27 For I have not shunned to declare to you all the counsel of God.
28 Take heed therefore to yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost has made you overseers,
to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.


1 Timothy 2: [pray] ... that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3 For this [is] good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Hi neophyte,

You are quite correct that there is only one Church, but you are incorrect to assume it is peopled only by Catholics.



Yep! There are Church members all through those denominations. You know... people who have God as their Father?

Click to expand...

From Holy Scripture, show me where Jesus gave His Authority to any mere-man to invent any future church different from His One True Apostolic Church as found ,for example, in Eph.2:19-20.

Foreigner said:

I don't worship a God that overseas a church which owns property worth billions.
That is a lie. The CIA World Fact book says differently. - Kepha

-- Get real.
A survey by Georgetown University found that there are 17,644 parishes in the U.S. http://cara.georgeto...hurchstats.html
If each - with it's church and rectory and parking lot - has a value of just $100,000 (less than the cost of the average home) then you have property values of more than $1,7 BILLION in the U.S. alone.

When you consider that - according to the survey - more than one-third also have schools with classrooms, gymnasiums, etc., you are looking at an incredibly conservative estimate of over $2 BILLION worth of Vatican land holdings in the United States alone.

Click to expand...

From the International Tribunal into Crimes of Church and State

Let's get serious indeed.

ITCCS researchers have discovered that at least 73 nations have signed secret treaties or Concordats with the Vatican, many of them since 1982, which channel untold billions of dollars of taxpayers’ money into church coffers. These countries include Canada, the United States, England, Ireland, virtually all European countries, and most of the third world.

Under the concordats, a regular percentage of national revenue – anywhere from two to five percent – is given to the Vatican either directly or in the form of subsidies to church-controlled businesses or “charitable”societies. In 2010 alone, Spain granted 262 million Euros to the Vatican – or over $350 million – under its concordat, which also entitles the catholic church to help formulate laws and control education.
“The figure is enormous” commented Hugo Barrero, an Argentinian who has studied the concordats.
“So much money is pouring into Rome through these agreements that the Vatican bank has a special financial officer just to handle the concordat money. But like the Bank itself, most of these agreements are secret and can’t be modified or even reviewed by elected officials of that country.”
The estimated cash assets each year from catholic church collections alone exceeds $50 billion, according to Barrero, and it’s all tax free.

“Even the costs of construction and maintenance on catholic church buildings can’t be taxed. Somebody has called the church an unregulated on-shore tax haven subsidized by taxpayers to pursue the supernatural. But in many cases, it’s actually pursuing child trafficking and rape.”
Requests to government officials or Members of Parliament or Congress in the United States, Canada, Ireland and England for copies of the respective nation’s concordats with the Vatican have repeatedly gone unanswered.
For more, plesae visit http://www.concordatwatch.eu/

Can't answer my post of # 410 can you, for if you attempt to answer that question it would just back-fire on you and you would find your whole position collapsing in ruins. So run along anti-Catholic strawman and use your same old evasive tactics of half-truths, exaggerations, misunderstandings and outright lies.

neophyte said:

From Holy Scripture, show me where Jesus gave His Authority to any mere-man to invent any future church different from His One True Apostolic Church as found ,for example, in Eph.2:19-20.

Click to expand...

Man is not to invent any church apart from His Church and that includes the Roman Catholic Church.

Eph 2:18 For through him (not Mary) we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

God knows those that are His, Neo. They are interspersed within Christian organizations all over the world and they can be found outside of them, too. God does not establish or save religious organizations, He establish relationships with people and saves people.

The Church of God is not an organization but a living organism "fitly framed together and growing unto an holy temple in the Lord".

Notice that Catholic Church is never mentioned.

Act_20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

1Co_1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

1Co_10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

1Co_15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

2Co_1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:

Gal_1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:

1Ti_3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

Never any mention of the Catholic Church in scripture because it did not exist.

Axehead

Hi neophyte,

From Holy Scripture, show me where Jesus gave His Authority to any mere-man to invent any future church different from His One True Apostolic Church as found ,for example, in Eph.2:19-20.

Click to expand...

It's a pleasure to see you quoting appropriate scripture to support your point. I completely agree that the only Church is the one to which Paul refers many times. I belong to that Church, too.

Quote

From Holy Scripture, show me where Jesus gave His Authority to any mere-man to invent any future church different from His One True Apostolic Church as found ,for example, in Eph.2:19-20.

It's a pleasure to see you quoting appropriate scripture to support your point. I completely agree that the only Church is the one to which Paul refers many times. I belong to that Church, too.

Click to expand...

Its interesting that it doesnt have a name, and it certainly is not any church here on earth as most see. Could be any of hundreds of denominations that make the same claim.
As for Sin, lets see

Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Heb 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

As Jesus said.

It Is Finished, of course the enemy would like you to spend your whole life in " guilT', which does not come from God.

in All His Love

mjrhealth said:

Its interesting that it doesnt have a name, and it certainly is not any church here on earth as most see. Could be any of hundreds of denominations that make the same claim.
As for Sin, lets see

Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Heb 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

As Jesus said.

It Is Finished, of course the enemy would like you to spend your whole life in " guilT', which does not come from God.

in All His Love

Click to expand...

Nice verses, mjrhealth.

Some say that Romans 6:11 is figurative and not reality in us but if it was only figurative then 6:12 would be impossible to carry out.

So, thank God "our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin (the fleshly lusts) might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." Romans 6:6.

Because Romans 6:6 is not figurative and is supposed to be reality in our lives, Romans 6:12 and 6:13 can be obeyed and it is therefore not unfair for the Lord to command that of us.

Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

Axehead

neophyte said:

Can't answer my post of # 410 can you, for if you attempt to answer that question it would just back-fire on you and you would find your whole position collapsing in ruins. So run along anti-Catholic strawman and use your same old evasive tactics of half-truths, exaggerations, misunderstandings and outright lies.

Click to expand...

-- Before you demand he answer your post from #410, why not practice what you preach and answer my question from post #401?


Here, let me remind you:


"But getting back to the actual topic of this thread:
You were also one of the people here who said the Rosary was for the edification of Christ.
I have posted what your Church says about the Rosary - directly from the Catholic Catechism - and you again ignore it:

"The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an "epitome of the whole Gospel," express this devotion to the Virgin Mary."[sup]517[/sup]

Mungo fled, calling it "nonsense."
How about you?"

I don't worship a God that says I have to go to confession once a week. - Axehead
I must go to confession if I feel separated from God. Monthly confession is a devotion that leads me to greater holiness. The minimum requirement is once a year. - Kepha

-- God does not send us to a Confessional. You are to confess your sins to God every day when you find yourself on your knees.
The Bible says we should confess our sins to each other, but that is mainly to seek guidance, advice, and assistance.
The Bible does not say it has to be to a priest and a priest alone. And the priest does not decide whether your sins are forgiven or not. God looks at your heart and He alone decides.

Click to expand...

It doesn't really matter to you how you get forgiveness. I would never suggest that God doesn't forgive your sins. That is not the point. Attacking Catholicism over a 2000 year old Tradition that is clearly in the Bible is the point. You have no need of the confessional because your spiritual ancestors, the reformers, abolished the New Testament priesthood. If you choose to reject the power Jesus gave the Apostles to forgive sins, that's your business. But you have no right to criticize something you refuse to understand. Just who is the "one another" Paul is speaking about?

James 5:16 - James clearly teaches us that we must confess our sins to one another, not just privately to God. (but you can and should) James 5:16 must be read in the context of James 5:14-15, which is referring to the healing power (both physical and spiritual) of the priests of the Church. Hence, when James says therefore in verse 16, he must be referring to the men he was writing about in verses 14 and 15 these men are the ordained priests of the Church, to whom we must confess our sins.

Your system cannot come to terms with James 5:14-15, and your system as unbiblically dropped the Anointing of the Sick as a sacrament. And you have to argue that Jesus did not give mere men, the power to forgive sins as they represent Him according to his instructions.

If you are waiting a week, let alone a year to confess your sins, you are allowing the barrier of sin to remain in place for too long at any one time, making your walk ineffectual.

Click to expand...

In the parable of the Prodigal son, at what point in the story does he obtain forgiveness? When you can answer that question, you will be at the beginning of understanding the confessional.

I don't worship a God that says the priest has to be obeyed. - Axehead
Obey what? When he says to obey the Ten Commandments? BTW, Protestant pastors have far more control over the private lives of their flock than do priests. - Kepha

-- Really?
Protestant pastors can require confession to them in person or else no forgiveness?
Require an exact number of specific prayers be said after confession if they want the confession to be accepted?
Deny people communion if they are not members of the church or if they participate in activities counter to church doctrine?
Try again.

Click to expand...

Protestant pastors do not have the power to forgive sins because they are not the priests in James 5, and they have no pedigree going back to the Apostles. Sometimes we can't make restitution for our sins, but God loves us enough that He will accept our prayers as a sacrifice (something I keep hearing about from Protestants when it comes to "sacrifice"). But without restitution in some form, then confession directly to God or to another human being is meaningless. Sinning against others is one thing, like stealing something; you have to give it back, but how do you make restitution to God for sinning against yourself? Like smoking marijuana or masturbating or mentally undressing beautiful girls. God doesn't need restitution, WE DO because we need to protect our freedom. Here is a link that explains the Sacrament of Reconciliation if you want to understand it. But it is designed for Catholics or potential Catholics to read. Not for anti-Catholics to scour through looking for scourges to whip Catholics with. If you want honest dialogue on this topic, then get informed so we can get somewhere. Otherwise, leave the topic to someone who is curious.

The Sacrament of Reconciliation

Deny people communion if they are not members of the church or if they participate in activities counter to church doctrine?

Click to expand...

Exodus 12:43-45; Ezek. 44:9 - no one outside the "family of God" shall eat the lamb. Non-Catholics should not partake of the Eucharist until they are in full communion with the Church.

Exodus 12:49 - no uncircumcised person shall eat of the lamb. Baptism is the new circumcision for Catholics, and thus one must be baptized in order to partake of the Lamb.

1 Cor. 11:27-29 - in these verses, Paul says that eating or drinking in an unworthy manner is the equivalent of profaning (literally, murdering) the body and blood of the Lord. If this is just a symbol, we cannot be guilty of actually profaning (murdering) it. We cannot murder a symbol. Either Paul, the divinely inspired apostle of God, is imposing an unjust penalty, or the Eucharist is the actual body and blood of Christ.

1 Cor. 11:30 - this verse alludes to the consequences of receiving the Eucharist unworthily. Receiving the actual body and blood of Jesus in mortal sin results in actual physical consequences to our bodies.

1 Cor. 11:27-30 - thus, if we partake of the Eucharist unworthily, we are guilty of literally murdering the body of Christ, and risking physical consequences to our bodies. This is overwhelming evidence for the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. These are unjust penalties if the Eucharist is just a symbol.

Denial of the Eucharist to members outside the Church IS FOR THEIR PROTECTION.
Denial of the Eucharist to those Catholics who publically support abortion is valid, but can only be determined by the local bishop.

I don't worship a God that wants me to worship Mary. - Axehead
Oh, please...not you too! ("you too" meaning another anti-Catholic)- Kepha

-- So Mary is the queen of Heaven, you pray to her....but you don't worship her?
Oh please...not you too!

Click to expand...

Yes, Foreigner, Mary is the queen of Heaven. Every Davidic King had a queen. You have a King but no queen. Tell me how that harmonizes with the whole Bible.

No, I do not worship Mary, that is just hate propaganda from ignorant ministers.

I don't worship a God that overseas a church which owns property worth billions. - Axehead
That is a lie. The CIA World Fact book says differently. - Kepha

-- Get real.
A survey by Georgetown University found that there are 17,644 parishes in the U.S. http://cara.georgeto...hurchstats.html
If each - with it's church and rectory and parking lot - has a value of just $100,000 (less than the cost of the average home) then you have property values of more than $1,7 BILLION in the U.S. alone.

When you consider that - according to the survey - more than one-third also have schools with classrooms, gymnasiums, etc., you are looking at an incredibly conservative estimate of over $2 BILLION worth of Vatican land holdings in the United States alone.

Click to expand...

More forum flatulence. Catholic churches and schools belong to the people who support then, not the Vatican. Catholic hospitals, soup kitchens, clinics, counseling offices, homes for the elderly, safe houses for abused women, homes for troubled teens with abusive parents, addiction centers, etc., etc., etc., are forbidden by law to make a profit. The Pharisees looked at Jesus in the face and they didn't recognize Him either.


In the Catholic sense, mystery means something that is known by divine revelation, which makes it beyond human understanding and thus must be accepted with faith because reason fails to define it alone. The word is from the Latin Mysterium which means the same thing as Sacrament which is Greek in origin.

To a Catholic a sacrament is a time when God touches ones life in a fundamental and personal way. We as Catholics live a sacramental life in that we believe that God is a personal God who touches our lives often. The Church has defined seven particular times in a person's life when God's touch is so intimate that those times are elevated to a "capital S" sacrament. These times are so important that they are celebrated within the Faith Community and leave a mark on the person that cannot be taken away. The seven sacraments are Baptism, First Eucharist, Reconciliation, Confirmation, Matrimony, Holy Orders and Anointing of the Sick/Dying. Most Sacraments are so important that they can only be received once by a Catholic. Eucharist, Reconciliation and Anointing are the three that are repeatable.

The other time one hears the term mystery in the Catholic tradition is when someone is speaking about the life, death and resurrection of Jesus. While historically we can know that these events actually happened, there is a point where our reason and intellect fail in understanding the import of the events. At this point we must rely on our faith to accept the truth of these events. This is living in the Divine Mystery of the Resurrection of Jesus for the salvation of souls.

As these two examples are times when humans try to understand the action of God which cannot be done with reason alone, then for a Catholic the term mystery is meant to explain those actions and interventions of God into our world that we must accept on faith coupled with our reason which is also a gift from God.
source


The Joyful Mysteries

1. The Annunciation
   Mary learns that she has been chosen to be the mother of Jesus.
2. The Visitation
   Mary visits Elizabeth, who tells her that she will always be remembered.
3. The Nativity
   Jesus is born in a stable in Bethlehem.
4. The Presentation
   Mary and Joseph take the infant Jesus to the Temple to present him to God.
5. The Finding of Jesus in the Temple
   Jesus is found in the Temple discussing his faith with the teachers.

The Mysteries of Light

1. The Baptism of Jesus in the River Jordan
   God proclaims that Jesus is his beloved Son.
2. The Wedding Feast at Cana
   At Mary’s request, Jesus performs his first miracle.
3. The Proclamation of the Kingdom of God
   Jesus calls all to conversion and service to the Kingdom.
4. The Transfiguration of Jesus
   Jesus is revealed in glory to Peter, James, and John.
5. The Institution of the Eucharist
   Jesus offers his Body and Blood at the Last Supper.

The Sorrowful Mysteries

1. The Agony in the Garden
   Jesus prays in the Garden of Gethsemane on the night before he dies.
2. The Scourging at the Pillar
   Jesus is lashed with whips.
3. The Crowning With Thorns
   Jesus is mocked and crowned with thorns.
4. The Carrying of the Cross
   Jesus carries the cross that will be used to crucify him.
5. The Crucifixion
   Jesus is nailed to the cross and dies.

The Glorious Mysteries

1. The Resurrection
   God the Father raises Jesus from the dead.
2. The Ascension
   Jesus returns to his Father in heaven.
3. The Coming of the Holy Spirit
   The Holy Spirit comes to bring new life to the disciples.
4. The Assumption of Mary
   At the end of her life on earth, Mary is taken body and soul into heaven.
5. The Coronation of Mary
   Mary is crowned as Queen of Heaven and Earth.

kepha31 said:

I don't worship a God that says I have to go to confession once a week. - Axehead
I must go to confession if I feel separated from God. Monthly confession is a devotion that leads me to greater holiness. The minimum requirement is once a year. - Kepha



It doesn't really matter to you how you get forgiveness. I would never suggest that God doesn't forgive your sins. That is not the point. Attacking Catholicism over a 2000 year old Tradition that is clearly in the Bible is the point. You have no need of the confessional because your spiritual ancestors, the reformers, abolished the New Testament priesthood. If you choose to reject the power Jesus gave the Apostles to forgive sins, that's your business. But you have no right to criticize something you refuse to understand. Just who is the "one another" Paul is speaking about?

James 5:16 - James clearly teaches us that we must confess our sins to one another, not just privately to God. (but you can and should) James 5:16 must be read in the context of James 5:14-15, which is referring to the healing power (both physical and spiritual) of the priests of the Church. Hence, when James says therefore in verse 16, he must be referring to the men he was writing about in verses 14 and 15 these men are the ordained priests of the Church, to whom we must confess our sins.

Your system cannot come to terms with James 5:14-15, and your system as unbiblically dropped the Anointing of the Sick as a sacrament. And you have to argue that Jesus did not give mere men, the power to forgive sins as they represent Him according to his instructions.



In the parable of the Prodigal son, at what point in the story does he obtain forgiveness? When you can answer that question, you will be at the beginning of understanding the confessional.

I don't worship a God that says the priest has to be obeyed. - Axehead
Obey what? When he says to obey the Ten Commandments? BTW, Protestant pastors have far more control over the private lives of their flock than do priests. - Kepha

Protestant pastors do not have the power to forgive sins because they are not the priests in James 5, and they have no pedigree going back to the Apostles. Sometimes we can't make restitution for our sins, but God loves us enough that He will accept our prayers as a sacrifice (something I keep hearing about from Protestants when it comes to "sacrifice"). But without restitution in some form, then confession directly to God or to another human being is meaningless. Sinning against others is one thing, like stealing something; you have to give it back, but how do you make restitution to God for sinning against yourself? Like smoking marijuana or masturbating or mentally undressing beautiful girls. God doesn't need restitution, WE DO because we need to protect our freedom. Here is a link that explains the Sacrament of Reconciliation if you want to understand it. But it is designed for Catholics or potential Catholics to read. Not for anti-Catholics to scour through looking for scourges to whip Catholics with. If you want honest dialogue on this topic, then get informed so we can get somewhere. Otherwise, leave the topic to someone who is curious.

The Sacrament of Reconciliation


Exodus 12:43-45; Ezek. 44:9 - no one outside the "family of God" shall eat the lamb. Non-Catholics should not partake of the Eucharist until they are in full communion with the Church.

Exodus 12:49 - no uncircumcised person shall eat of the lamb. Baptism is the new circumcision for Catholics, and thus one must be baptized in order to partake of the Lamb.

1 Cor. 11:27-29 - in these verses, Paul says that eating or drinking in an unworthy manner is the equivalent of profaning (literally, murdering) the body and blood of the Lord. If this is just a symbol, we cannot be guilty of actually profaning (murdering) it. We cannot murder a symbol. Either Paul, the divinely inspired apostle of God, is imposing an unjust penalty, or the Eucharist is the actual body and blood of Christ.

1 Cor. 11:30 - this verse alludes to the consequences of receiving the Eucharist unworthily. Receiving the actual body and blood of Jesus in mortal sin results in actual physical consequences to our bodies.

1 Cor. 11:27-30 - thus, if we partake of the Eucharist unworthily, we are guilty of literally murdering the body of Christ, and risking physical consequences to our bodies. This is overwhelming evidence for the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. These are unjust penalties if the Eucharist is just a symbol.

Denial of the Eucharist to members outside the Church IS FOR THEIR PROTECTION.
Denial of the Eucharist to those Catholics who publically support abortion is valid, but can only be determined by the local bishop.

I don't worship a God that wants me to worship Mary. - Axehead
Oh, please...not you too! ("you too" meaning another anti-Catholic)- Kepha


Yes, Foreigner, Mary is the queen of Heaven. Every Davidic King had a queen. You have a King but no queen. Tell me how that harmonizes with the whole Bible.

No, I do not worship Mary, that is just hate propaganda from ignorant ministers.



More forum flatulence. Catholic churches and schools belong to the people who support then, not the Vatican. Catholic hospitals, soup kitchens, clinics, counseling offices, homes for the elderly, safe houses for abused women, homes for troubled teens with abusive parents, addiction centers, etc., etc., etc., are forbidden by law to make a profit. The Pharisees looked at Jesus in the face and they didn't recognize Him either.

What Is a Mystery?​

In the Catholic sense, mystery means something that is known by divine revelation, which makes it beyond human understanding and thus must be accepted with faith because reason fails to define it alone. The word is from the Latin Mysterium which means the same thing as Sacrament which is Greek in origin.

To a Catholic a sacrament is a time when God touches ones life in a fundamental and personal way. We as Catholics live a sacramental life in that we believe that God is a personal God who touches our lives often. The Church has defined seven particular times in a person's life when God's touch is so intimate that those times are elevated to a "capital S" sacrament. These times are so important that they are celebrated within the Faith Community and leave a mark on the person that cannot be taken away. The seven sacraments are Baptism, First Eucharist, Reconciliation, Confirmation, Matrimony, Holy Orders and Anointing of the Sick/Dying. Most Sacraments are so important that they can only be received once by a Catholic. Eucharist, Reconciliation and Anointing are the three that are repeatable.

The other time one hears the term mystery in the Catholic tradition is when someone is speaking about the life, death and resurrection of Jesus. While historically we can know that these events actually happened, there is a point where our reason and intellect fail in understanding the import of the events. At this point we must rely on our faith to accept the truth of these events. This is living in the Divine Mystery of the Resurrection of Jesus for the salvation of souls.

As these two examples are times when humans try to understand the action of God which cannot be done with reason alone, then for a Catholic the term mystery is meant to explain those actions and interventions of God into our world that we must accept on faith coupled with our reason which is also a gift from God.
source

Mysteries of the Rosary​

The Joyful Mysteries

1. The Annunciation
   Mary learns that she has been chosen to be the mother of Jesus.
   
2. The Visitation
   Mary visits Elizabeth, who tells her that she will always be remembered.
   
3. The Nativity
   Jesus is born in a stable in Bethlehem.
   
4. The Presentation
   Mary and Joseph take the infant Jesus to the Temple to present him to God.
   
5. The Finding of Jesus in the Temple
   Jesus is found in the Temple discussing his faith with the teachers.

The Mysteries of Light

1. The Baptism of Jesus in the River Jordan
   God proclaims that Jesus is his beloved Son.
   
2. The Wedding Feast at Cana
   At Mary’s request, Jesus performs his first miracle.
   
3. The Proclamation of the Kingdom of God
   Jesus calls all to conversion and service to the Kingdom.
   
4. The Transfiguration of Jesus
   Jesus is revealed in glory to Peter, James, and John.
   
5. The Institution of the Eucharist
   Jesus offers his Body and Blood at the Last Supper.

The Sorrowful Mysteries

1. The Agony in the Garden
   Jesus prays in the Garden of Gethsemane on the night before he dies.
   
2. The Scourging at the Pillar
   Jesus is lashed with whips.
   
3. The Crowning With Thorns
   Jesus is mocked and crowned with thorns.
   
4. The Carrying of the Cross
   Jesus carries the cross that will be used to crucify him.
   
5. The Crucifixion
   Jesus is nailed to the cross and dies.

The Glorious Mysteries

1. The Resurrection
   God the Father raises Jesus from the dead.
   
2. The Ascension
   Jesus returns to his Father in heaven.
   
3. The Coming of the Holy Spirit
   The Holy Spirit comes to bring new life to the disciples.
   
4. The Assumption of Mary
   At the end of her life on earth, Mary is taken body and soul into heaven.
   
5. The Coronation of Mary
   Mary is crowned as Queen of Heaven and Earth.

Click to expand...

Post #403 is your original post. Just to keep the record straight.

These quotes are your concoction, Kepha. I am not saying I don't believe your quotes, but you created these and then proceeded to answer them.
I don't worship a God that says we have to submit to a pope.
I don't worship a God that says that going to mass earns you salvation brownie points.
I don't worship a God that says I have to go to confession once a week.
I don't worship a God that says the priest has to be obeyed.
I don't worship a God that wants me to worship Mary.
I don't worship a God who calls Mary the queen of heaven.
I don't worship a God who says I have to pray to Mary.
I don't worship a God who says we get our salvation through Mary.
I don't worship a God that winks at child abusing priests.
I don't worship a God who approves of graven images.
I don't worship a God who asks his priests to dress up like women.
I don't worship a God that who supports clergy that ignore scripture by being called father.
I don't worship a God that has purgatory on the calendar.
I don't worship a God that overseas a church which owns property worth billions.


Axehead

marksman said:

Instead of bagging anothers church...maybe we should try to understand that church and not rely on heresay...seek out the truth, visit one a few times, try to understand we all worship the same God on here and try to show God's love toward another...being rude just makes another close off anything you have to say...We can all disagree on doctrine...we can all think we have all the answers...but guess what...we do not have the answers to all things, we are not God and we should not be judging our brother or sister on what church they want to worship in...I have been in Spirit filled Catholic churches and was stunned by the flow of the Spirit...No worship of Mary all the Glory was to the Lord...and I have been in some that were as dry as bones, not only Catholic but Baptist, Methodist as well...

I am not sure that this is true.
I don't worship a God that says we have to submit to a pope.
I don't worship a God that says that going to mass earns you salvation brownie points.
I don't worship a God that says I have to go to confession once a week.
I don't worship a God that says the priest has to be obeyed.
I don't worship a God that wants me to worship Mary.
I don't worship a God who calls Mary the queen of heaven.
I don't worship a God who says I have to pray to Mary.
I don't worship a God who says we get our salvation through Mary.
I don't worship a God that wants me to say the rosary.
I don't worship a God that winks at child abusing priests.
I don't worship a God who approves of graven images.
I don't worship a God who asks his priests to dress up like women.
I don't worship a God that who supports clergy that ignore scripture by being called father.
I don't worship a God that has purgatory on the calendar.
I don't worship a God that overseas a church which owns property worth billions.

As far as the heresay accusation, I worked in the catholic system for two years. I met lovely people and I met people particularly priests who thought they were God's gift to the church and had to be obeyed without question, and if you didn't, you either got overlooked for promotion or were sacked and thinking for yourself was considered a sin. One thing that did surprise me was that I have never met such foul mouthed people as some of the catholics that I worked with.

If people want to be involved with the RC church, be my guest, but I am not going to be told that what I believe is heresy if it differs with the RC church and I have to keep quiet because it might offend someoone's sensibilities.

I welcome any challenge to my faith because you don't know what you believe until you are challenged and have to give an account of your faith. If that is a problem to you, perhaps it would be better to stay out of the public arena.

Click to expand...

Axehead. As you can see, I didn't make them up. Marksman did. I couldn't use the quote feature because it would exceed the maximum allowed, so I used colored font to make the distinction between the irrational hatred found way back on page 3 or 4 and my reply. It was most likely an over site on your part...no need to apologize.

Elvis fans will like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Xi3i5r9yhE&feature=related

kepha31 said:

Mysteries of the Rosary​

The Joyful Mysteries

1. The Annunciation
   Mary learns that she has been chosen to be the mother of Jesus.
   
2. The Visitation
   Mary visits Elizabeth, who tells her that she will always be remembered.
   
3. The Nativity
   Jesus is born in a stable in Bethlehem.
   
4. The Presentation
   Mary and Joseph take the infant Jesus to the Temple to present him to God.
   
5. The Finding of Jesus in the Temple
   Jesus is found in the Temple discussing his faith with the teachers.

The Mysteries of Light

1. The Baptism of Jesus in the River Jordan
   God proclaims that Jesus is his beloved Son.
   
2. The Wedding Feast at Cana
   At Mary’s request, Jesus performs his first miracle.
   
3. The Proclamation of the Kingdom of God
   Jesus calls all to conversion and service to the Kingdom.
   
4. The Transfiguration of Jesus
   Jesus is revealed in glory to Peter, James, and John.
   
5. The Institution of the Eucharist
   Jesus offers his Body and Blood at the Last Supper.

The Sorrowful Mysteries

1. The Agony in the Garden
   Jesus prays in the Garden of Gethsemane on the night before he dies.
   
2. The Scourging at the Pillar
   Jesus is lashed with whips.
   
3. The Crowning With Thorns
   Jesus is mocked and crowned with thorns.
   
4. The Carrying of the Cross
   Jesus carries the cross that will be used to crucify him.
   
5. The Crucifixion
   Jesus is nailed to the cross and dies.

The Glorious Mysteries

1. The Resurrection
   God the Father raises Jesus from the dead.
   
2. The Ascension
   Jesus returns to his Father in heaven.
   
3. The Coming of the Holy Spirit
   The Holy Spirit comes to bring new life to the disciples.
   
4. The Assumption of Mary
   At the end of her life on earth, Mary is taken body and soul into heaven.
   
5. The Coronation of Mary
   Mary is crowned as Queen of Heaven and Earth.

Click to expand...

Blessed Mystery to some, but the Scripture declares ONE mystery: how God was manifest in flesh. (1 Timothy 3:16)

It truly amazes me how we somehow can build doctrines on air castles and then proclaim them to others?!