Just heard about the rosary....

epostle1 · Oct 6, 2012

Mungo said:
Giving someone authority under you does not mean you relinquish your authority.

According to your argument no-one can have any authority because Jesus has it all.

I am working on a theory that people who have authority issues come from dysfunctional families. They had a parent who was spiritually abusive, or emotionally absent, usually the father. Or their parents are divorced. Or they are adopted. In reality, they are acting out the pain of missing out on their fathers love. But this is changing. Great movements within Protestantism such as Promise Keepers, and Marriage Encounter teach a new emphasis on the importance of wholesome fatherhood. Our concept of God is formed before the age of 5. It is influenced by our view of our parents. Parents are being taught how to "raise them up on the way they should go." Proverbs 22:6

Children don't rebel against their parents, they grow up and rebel against society. Or they rebel against symbols in place of authority of their parents who were anything but perfect. Or they stop going to church their mothers forced them to attend. And what better symbol of authority is there than the Catholic Church, the moral "parent" of humanity. She is mistakenly viewed as an abusive parent because that is how the world portrays her. This false image is readily received in a world made up of dysfunctional families.

The causes for the reformation no longer exist. Vatican II ended 450 years of strife. The deep seated reasons for rebellion against the Church today are being diminished by the Protestant virtue of teaching responsible parenthood. The psycho-genesis of rebellion to authority is being diminished within Protestantism itself.
Protestantism and Authority

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWYwBDqFsuE&feature=related

Mungo · Oct 6, 2012

kepha31 said:
I am working on a theory that people who have authority issues come from dysfunctional families. They had a parent who was spiritually abusive, or emotionally absent, usually the father. Or their parents are divorced. Or they are adopted. In reality, they are acting out the pain of missing out on their fathers love. But this is changing. Great movements within Protestantism such as Promise Keepers, and Marriage Encounter teach a new emphasis on the importance of wholesome fatherhood. Our concept of God is formed before the age of 5. It is influenced by our view of our parents. Parents are being taught how to "raise them up on the way they should go." Proverbs 22:6

Children don't rebel against their parents, they grow up and rebel against society. Or they rebel against symbols in place of authority of their parents who were anything but perfect. Or they stop going to church their mothers forced them to attend. And what better symbol of authority is there than the Catholic Church, the moral "parent" of humanity. She is mistakenly viewed as an abusive parent because that is how the world portrays her. This false image is readily received in a world made up of dysfunctional families.

The causes for the reformation no longer exist. Vatican II ended 450 years of strife. The deep seated reasons for rebellion against the Church today are being diminished by the Protestant virtue of teaching responsible parenthood. The psycho-genesis of rebellion to authority is being diminished within Protestantism itself.
Protestantism and Authority

Interesting points.

Just a side issue but Marriage Encounter is a Catholic Movement.

Axehead · Oct 6, 2012

By your logic, Jesus had an authority problem with the Pharisees. But, the authority that mattered the most to Jesus was His Father's authority in heaven.

That is the authority that should matter to everyone.

Of course, the RCC propagates the idea that everyone who is at odds with Romanism has an "authority problem". It is only another one of their strategies for denigrating others.

As if their "authorities" are equal with the Father or even came from the Father, which they did not. It is a big, made up sham to bring people under their "covering".

Coming under God's authority will free you from the fear of man and you won't be phased by man's "psychologic evaluation" or "theories" of you.

Mungo · Oct 6, 2012

Axehead said:
By your logic, Jesus had an authority problem with the Pharisees. But, the authority that mattered the most to Jesus was His Father's authority in heaven.

That is the authority that should matter to everyone.

Of course, the RCC propagates the idea that everyone who is at odds with Romanism has an "authority problem". It is only another one of their strategies for denigrating others.

As if their "authorities" are equal with the Father or even came from the Father, which they did not. It is a big, made up sham to bring people under their "covering".

Coming under God's authority will free you from the fear of man and you won't be phased by man's "psychologic evaluation" or "theories" of you.

The Catholic Church's authority came from Jesus, who was given authority by HisFather. So yes, the Church's authority does come from the Father, but indirectly. But of course their authority is not equal to the Father's, or to Jesus'.

The Catholic Church does come under God's authority.

Where does a Protestant's authority come from and how did they get it?

Were they given it or did they just try and usurp it?

mjrhealth · Oct 6, 2012

The Catholic Church's authority came from Jesus, who was given authority by HisFather. So yes, the Church's authority does come from the Father, but indirectly. But of course their authority is not equal to the Father's, or to Jesus'.

The Catholic Church does come under God's authority.

Where does a Protestant's authority come from and how did they get it?

Where??? derailing the thread. God gave no specific church His authority, it was usurped. There is not a single denomination in this world today, who does not claim to be the only way. Jesus said He is the only Way. Now if the religious people would look at there church history, at the things it did, and is still doing and can still make claim that it is from God, than they must truly have a very distorted idea of who He is.

Jesus is Building His Church, Revelation is the sure rock on which it is built, and that come from God not man.

In all His Love

neophyte · Oct 6, 2012

mjrhealth said:
Where??? derailing the thread. God gave no specific church His authority, it was usurped. There is not a single denomination in this world today, who does not claim to be the only way. Jesus said He is the only Way. Now if the religious people would look at there church history, at the things it did, and is still doing and can still make claim that it is from God, than they must truly have a very distorted idea of who He is.

Jesus is Building His Church, Revelation is the sure rock on which it is built, and that come from God not man.

In all His Love

Jesus is God, and Jesus formed His only Church on His Apostles/ there successors as we can read from the Bible [ Luke 10: 16 ] Jesus said 'my church " [ Matt.16: 18 ] not churches. Your church was invented by a mere-man many hundreds of years later. It hasn't the same "doctrine " as Christ's Catholic& Apostolic Church contains as found in [ Romans 16:17-18 ] [ 1 Cor. 1:10 ] and your church certainly doesn't follow Apostolic lineage nor Apostolic Teachings along with the Holy Bible , only the Catholic Church is apostolic [ Eph. 2:19-20 ] the True Christian Church is also the only world religion that isn't of a Book alone religion as is found in Judaism, Mormonism, Islam, Jwism, Protestanism. Jesus is much more than just a Holy Book alone. Jesus also is more than just the Son , He is also God the Father and also the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit also has appeared as Tongues of Fire and as a Dove.

dragonfly · Oct 6, 2012

Hi neophyte,

God doesn't have grandchildren. Only children. A person is either born of God, or, they need to be born of God. There's no other category.

mjrhealth · Oct 6, 2012

Joh_14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Joh 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
Joh 5:41 I receive not honour from men.

Joh 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
Joh 6:66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
Joh 6:67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
Joh 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
Joh 6:69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

Folowed Who, Jesus, church no matter what it is called can save no man.

In All His Love

dragonfly · Oct 6, 2012

Hi Mungo,

I will return your favour by not quoting your whole post.

And to whom did Jesus pass on his authority?
Answer: to the leaders of His Church.

And what else did he say following those words?
Answer:- “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age."

I've emboldened the sentence which is the most important to retain in one's understanding of how spiritual authority works.

It works by the Son, Jesus Christ, and His Father, the one God, presencing Themselves through the Holy Spirit, in the believer. After He had risen from the dead, Jesus told the disciples, 'As [my] Father sent me, so send I you'. John 20:21, John 17:18, 19, 20, 21.

Our unity with Christ and His Father is intended by the Godhead to convince the world that Jesus Christ was sent by God the Father.

It is, also, important to note that the apostles had 'authority' to teach only what Jesus Christ had taught them, and that He Himself was going to go with them everywhere. He did not, as you stated, 'pass on his authority to the leaders of His Church'. No-one has authority while separated from God Himself. We are to abide in Him. That is, in all of His death, all of His resurrection and all of His life. Rom 6:4

Only in absolute submission to His Father's will, is there any of Christ's real authority for a disciple of Christ. (His sending out the seventy, was a very special exception.) As His sons, we are to be obedient as He was obedient. For Christ, that meant dying on the cross. For us, that means disowning our lives to be made partakers of the divine nature. 2 Peter 1:4 - always in the presence of the Father, and the Son. Phil 2:8, 9.

They learn from the ones Jesus appointed to teach them.

No... They learn from Jesus Himself through the ministry of the Holy Spirit and the written word working together in their hearts, and, more importantly, as they obey Him implicitly, they both prove His perfect will in their lives, and, are transformed by the renewing of their minds. Rom 12:1, 2.

Have you come round to the Biblical point of view yet?

You didn't express a Biblical point of view; but, if you meant your pov? no; I am sticking with a simple reading of scripture, thanks.

Where does a Protestant's authority come from and how did they get it?

The only things a Protestant against Catholicism is protesting about, are the additions and subtractions from scripture which successive regiemes have made down the centuries; the passive acceptance of endless changes to doctrine, all of which drift the believer further and further from the source of true knowledge Col 2:3, show a wanting of the Holy Spirit's authority, grace (power), truth and love. Rom 5:5. Any Protestant without the Holy Spirit is no better off than a Catholic without the Holy Spirit. Neither have the power of God working with them as a sign of God's endorsement.

Luke 5:17 '... and the power of the Lord was [present] to heal them.

Acts 4:29 And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word, 30 By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus. 31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.

Romans 15:17 I have therefore whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God. 18 For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed, 19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about to Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ. 20 Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation:

epostle1 · Oct 6, 2012

mjrhealth said:
Where??? derailing the thread. God gave no specific church His authority, it was usurped. There is not a single denomination in this world today, who does not claim to be the only way. Jesus said He is the only Way. Now if the religious people would look at there church history, at the things it did, and is still doing and can still make claim that it is from God, than they must truly have a very distorted idea of who He is.

Jesus is Building His Church, Revelation is the sure rock on which it is built, and that come from God not man.

In all His Love

The Catholic Church is the true church, but she is not the only church with truths.

mjrhealth said:
Joh_14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Joh 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
Joh 5:41 I receive not honour from men.

Joh 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
Joh 6:66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
Joh 6:67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
Joh 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
Joh 6:69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

Folowed Who, Jesus, church no matter what it is called can save no man.

In All His Love

What are the "words of eternal life"? Is Peter talking about just the words of Jesus in the New Testament? Or is Peter talking in the context of what Jesus just finished teaching them?

Note that Jesus says "...eternal life..." in verse 54. Note that Peter says "...words of eternal life" in verse 68. It makes no sense for Peter's reply to mean all the words that Jesus spoke in the New Testament. Peter was talking about what Jesus just finished saying.

John 6:54

dragonfly said:
Hi Mungo,

I will return your favour by not quoting your whole post.

I've emboldened the sentence which is the most important to retain in one's understanding of how spiritual authority works.

It works by the Son, Jesus Christ, and His Father, the one God, presencing Themselves through the Holy Spirit, in the believer. After He had risen from the dead, Jesus told the disciples, 'As [my] Father sent me, so send I you'. John 20:21, John 17:18, 19, 20, 21.

I believe in the Priesthood of All Believers, but not all believers are qualified to teach. Jesus told the Apostles and their successors to do certain things that everybody else has no business doing. 'As [my] Father sent me, so send I you' YOU means the Apostles and their successors; that is who Jesus is talking to. Read it in context. It does not mean each individual believer.

Our unity with Christ and His Father is intended by the Godhead to convince the world that Jesus Christ was sent by God the Father.

Jesus said that the unity of Christians would be objective evidence to the world that He had been sent by God (John 17:20 John 17:22 John 17:23). How can the world see an invisible "unity" that exists only in the hearts of believers?

If the unity of Christians was meant to convince the world that Jesus was sent by God, what does the ever-increasing fragmentation of Protestantism say to the world?

It is, also, important to note that the apostles had 'authority' to teach only what Jesus Christ had taught them, and that He Himself was going to go with them everywhere.

Chapter and verse please.

He did not, as you stated, 'pass on his authority to the leaders of His Church'. No-one has authority while separated from God Himself. We are to abide in Him. That is, in all of His death, all of His resurrection and all of His life. Rom 6:4

You seem confused.
The body is made up of many members who are distinguished one from the other by functions for which they have a fixed structure. In the Body, the bishops have the function of teaching and guiding, and this task they perform through the power of the Spirit who transfuses the whole Body, making each member effective in his function.

The Body is one, and so the episcopate is one, and the unity of the episcopate is achieved through solidarity with the prime source of Episcopal power, the Bishop of Rome. In the Catholic vision the pope teaches in the name of the episcopate and the episcopate teaches in the name of the Church and the Church teaches in the name of Christ, and Christ teaches in the name of God.

Only in absolute submission to His Father's will, is there any of Christ's real authority for a disciple of Christ. (His sending out the seventy, was a very special exception.) As His sons, we are to be obedient as He was obedient. For Christ, that meant dying on the cross. For us, that means disowning our lives to be made partakers of the divine nature. 2 Peter 1:4 - always in the presence of the Father, and the Son. Phil 2:8, 9.

We are all called to absolute submission to His Fathers will. We are not all called to be full time servants of the Gospel. (Bishop, priest, deacon)

No... They learn from Jesus Himself through the ministry of the Holy Spirit and the written word working together in their hearts, and, more importantly, as they obey Him implicitly, they both prove His perfect will in their lives, and, are transformed by the renewing of their minds. Rom 12:1, 2.

Yes, that applies all of us.

You didn't express a Biblical point of view; but, if you meant your pov? no; I am sticking with a simple reading of scripture, thanks.

The only things a Protestant against Catholicism is protesting about, are the additions and subtractions from scripture which successive regiemes have made down the centuries

Maybe you actually believe it because that is what you have been taught by your "authorities" down through the centuries, but it is a blatant lie, a falsehood, a slander. Martin Luther, the "father" of Protestantism, threw out 7 books because they didn't suit his opinions, and added the word "alone" to Romans 3:28 to bolster his inventions. Your accusation is hypocritical.

; the passive acceptance of endless changes to doctrine, all of which drift the believer further and further from the source of true knowledge Col 2:3, show a wanting of the Holy Spirit's authority, grace (power), truth and love. Rom 5:5. Any Protestant without the Holy Spirit is no better off than a Catholic without the Holy Spirit. Neither have the power of God working with them as a sign of God's endorsement.

Doctrines cannot change. It is impossible. They develop. The clarification of the Trinity in the face of growing heresies is an example of doctrinal development that most Protestants accept. How do you determine who has the Holy Spirit and who doesn't? By how holy they act at church?

Luke 5:17 '... and the power of the Lord was [present] to heal them.

Acts 4:29 And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word, 30 By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus. 31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.

Romans 15:17 I have therefore whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God. 18 For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed, 19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about to Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ. 20 Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation:

I attend, on occaision, a spirit filled prophetic church. Having gifts of the Holy Spirit made manifest is a good thing, but it is no guarantee of doctrinal infallibility. They err on many teachings. But they do have a zest for God that I admire.

neophyte · Oct 6, 2012

dragonfly, whatever are you saying anyways? I never implied anywhere in my above post about God having any grandchildren.
Also your post#470 is a confused mess on mis-information about Christ's Catholic Church. You mention about changing doctrine through the ages , but no doctrine has ever changed,which one? Then you also write that Luke 10: 16 is either a mistake or a lie, why is that ? By writing that Jesus never passed on His authority to 'only' His apostles you are then contradicting Holy Scripture.
And why do you think that Jesus never wanted all future Christians to hear His apostles teachings? Because Jesus never wrote anything down to pass on to future generations Jesus only used verbal teaching and those apostles were commanded by Jesus to pass on all of His Teachings, for not only the first generation, but for all future Christians as well.

lawrance · Oct 7, 2012

kepha31 said:
He's new. I think he is testing the waters to see what degree of hate and bigotry is tolerated. (in the name of Jesus). But his writing is so mixed up I can't tell if he is taking about Catholics or Protestants. Last I checked, Christians are supposed to have good manners; It's the mark of civility.

soupy said:
Wow, why the name calling?

That is the name that all the Australians called them in them days of our great culture mix mainly in the 50's & 60's and it is not offensive at all as wog just means foreigner. and this is a fact of many people of my generation but the young PC people of today are stuck up grubby little snobs who live in total ignorance and i was talking to people in there 80's the day before i wrought it who were talking about all that stuff.
The people i was talking to were all Freemasons and the conversation started about Catholics, how they have change to day etc and went on from there.

kepha31 said:
He's new. I think he is testing the waters to see what degree of hate and bigotry is tolerated. (in the name of Jesus). But his writing is so mixed up I can't tell if he is taking about Catholics or Protestants. Last I checked, Christians are supposed to have good manners; It's the mark of civility.

Is that true ! i would like to see you try living down hear in it mate and we will see how you go! with such a snob like attitude,
I am on about people who cause much problems in our society and all you can do is just brush good people aside, why do we have to have we have to put up with people like you dishing out such snobbery.

MR ROSENBERGER said:
I was lead to believe this rubbish to by slandering prot's and believed them as the so called RC wogs i dealt with in my work were seen to be by me, as just like you say. "go about their evil ways deliberately" then on Sunday the total morons were forgiven. so the low life would have no qualms in trying to rip you off or try to cause trouble playing stupid moronic games beyond belief. and i came across this time and time again even in other states. i don't know if it comes from living from their home land Mafia type life styles or what.
I think they would try to conn and frighten or co-ursh you by yelling, ranting and swing there arms around into submission, so as to stand over you. and the fact of the mater is, they had on brains at all. as it was all just gibberish foolish nonsense they were on about on the job site.
So in Australia they got the nick name of Dago bastards.
And i thought that the RCC was just a sick joke.

I will have to go into more detail due to others not having a Handel it seems
I thought that the RCC was just a sick joke ? that was my experience in them days ? not now ? and the hatred of my freemason friends against the RCC was full on back in there day and not so much so today as it was and they say the RCC has changed.
The So called reference to the Bastards was a fact of life back then as it was common place to hear it said every where as we were an english people you know.
I don't think i should or anyone should have to endure full on con artist who prey on the vulnerable and this vile disgrace is still encouraged by snobs today in the year 2012 even the PC mob does it. I my self oppose people like this directly as i will not stand for it at all.

dragonfly · Oct 7, 2012

Hi neophyte,

My point is this: Jesus did not 'pass on' His authority to His apostles and disciples in the way that you and Mungo imply, where it is said to have been handed down the generations, a bit like Chinese whispers. Jesus Himself, and His Father - in the disciples by His Holy Spirit - is The Authority by which doctrinal truth and spiritual gift is validated as it is being ministered or prayed. Every believer should have a measure of this Authority, which, as I tried to explain, is directly related to obedience to God like Jesus obeyed His Father. Acts 5:29, 32 (Peter speaking).

That's what I meant about God not having 'grandchildren'; through the spirit of adoption - that is, through the Holy Spirit Rom 8:15, 16, Gal 4:5 - we become sons of God, with direct access to Father in heaven - Eph 2:18 ('both' = Jews and Gentiles), Eph 3:12, Rom 5:1, 2.

As for doctrines that have changed down the centuries, you probably need to read up on Vatican and Catholic websites for that. I am interested only in showing the world how Roman Catholic doctrine strays far from the word of God Himself, whom to know is eternal life. John 17:3

Mungo · Oct 7, 2012

dragonfly said:
Hi neophyte,

My point is this: Jesus did not 'pass on' His authority to His apostles and disciples in the way that you and Mungo imply, where it is said to have been handed down the generations, a bit like Chinese whispers. Jesus Himself, and His Father - in the disciples by His Holy Spirit - is The Authority by which doctrinal truth and spiritual gift is validated as it is being ministered or prayed. Every believer should have a measure of this Authority, which, as I tried to explain, is directly related to obedience to God like Jesus obeyed His Father. Acts 5:29, 32 (Peter speaking).

Dragonfly,

You appear not to understand the nature of authority and how it is transmitted. Your references to Acts 5:29, 32 say nothing about how authority is passed from one person to another.

Let me explain. Sorry it is long. I usually avoid long posts as people tend not to read them. But this matter of authority is very important. Please read it through

If someone has authority, then when they give them a task, a mission, an office under their authority, then they give them the authority that goes with it.

This consists of the authority to act and to speak in their name (within the scope of the authority they give them).

Take the example of the centurion with the sick servant in Mt 8:5-10. The centurion approaches Jesus and asks him to cure his servant.

Verse 9 is a key verse "For I too am a person subject to authority, with soldiers subject to me. And I say to one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and to another, ‘Come here,’ and he comes;"

The Centurion has authority because of his rank, given him by those above him. I don't know the structure of the Roman Army but ultimately his authority comes from Caesar himself. When he gives an order to a soldier it was as if Caesar himself was standing there giving the order. To disobey the Centurion was to disobey Caesar.

Or we could put it another way - for a soldier to listen to the centurion was to listen to Caesar; to reject the centurion was to reject Caesar.

When the centurion said to Jesus "For I too am a person under authority" he was acknowledging that Jesus too had authority from above and that his word was sufficient to cure his servant "Lord, I am not worthy to have you enter under my roof; only say the word and my servant will be healed" (verse 8) This is why Jesus was astonished at the faith of the centurion.

When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him, “Amen, I say to you, in no one in Israel have I found such faith (verse 10).

Now move on to Luke 9:1-6 and Luke 10:1-6 Jesus enunciates these two principles with the disciples he send out on mission.
"He summoned the Twelve and gave them power and authority over all demons and to cure diseases, and he sent them to proclaim the kingdom of God and to heal (the sick)." (Lk 9:1-2)

He gives them authority to act and authority to speak in his name. And he sums this up in verse 16 - "Whoever listens to you listens to me. Whoever rejects you rejects me. And whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me"

That is a universal principle when Jesus gives someone a task, a mission, an office under his authority.

Thus when Jesus sends the apostles out on the great mission with the great commission in Mt 28:19-20
"Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age." He gives the apostles the authority to act and to speak in his name, and the "Whoever listens to you listens to me. Whoever rejects you rejects me. And whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me." applies to them.

The NT gives us an example of people trying to usurp authority:
Then some itinerant Jewish exorcists tried to invoke the name of the Lord Jesus over those with evil spirits, saying, “I adjure you by the Jesus whom Paul preaches.” When the seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish high priest, tried to do this, the evil spirit said to them in reply, “Jesus I recognize, Paul I know, but who are you?” The person with the evil spirit then sprang at them and subdued them all. He so overpowered them that they fled naked and wounded from that house. (Acts 19:13-16).

They had no authority to act or speak in Jesus’ name and the evil spirits knew that.

I now want to go back to the Old Testament.
In Ex 3&4 God gives Moses a mission and gives him authority to act and speak for God. Moses is reluctant because of his poor speech so God put Aaron under Moses’ authority to speak on Moses behalf. (4:14-15). But note what God says to Moses in verse 16 "He shall speak to the people for you: he shall be your spokesman, and you shall be as God to him." Just read them emboldened bit twice.
We see this in the plagues where God told Moses and Moses told Aaron who acted.

Now move on to Numbers 12 where we see a warning about trying to claim authority you do not have. Aaron and Miriam grumble about Moses and thinking they are just as good as him.

They complained, “Is it through Moses alone that the Lord speaks? Does he not speak through us also?” (vs 2).

God was angry and called all three of them to the meeting tent and said to them (vs 6-8)
“Now listen to the words of the Lord:

Should there be a prophet among you,

in visions will I reveal myself to him,

in dreams will I speak to him;

Not so with my servant Moses!

Throughout my house he bears my trust:

face to face I speak to him,

plainly and not in riddles.

The presence of the Lord he beholds.

Why, then, did you not fear to speak against my servant Moses?”
He then turned Miriam into a leper.

To sum up:

1. If you reject those who Jesus has given authotity to speak and act in his name then you are rejecting Jesus.
2. If you reject Jesus you are rejecting he Father (the one who sent Jesus).
3. God will punish those who try to usurp authority

epostle1 · Oct 7, 2012

MR ROSENBERGER said:
That is the name that all the Australians called them in them days of our great culture mix mainly in the 50's & 60's and it is not offensive at all as wog just means foreigner. and this is a fact of many people of my generation but the young PC people of today are stuck up grubby little snobs who live in total ignorance and i was talking to people in there 80's the day before i wrought it who were talking about all that stuff.
The people i was talking to were all Freemasons and the conversation started about Catholics, how they have change to day etc and went on from there.

Is that true ! i would like to see you try living down hear in it mate and we will see how you go! with such a snob like attitude,
I am on about people who cause much problems in our society and all you can do is just brush good people aside, why do we have to have we have to put up with people like you dishing out such snobbery.

I will have to go into more detail due to others not having a Handel it seems
I thought that the RCC was just a sick joke ? that was my experience in them days ? not now ? and the hatred of my freemason friends against the RCC was full on back in there day and not so much so today as it was and they say the RCC has changed.
The So called reference to the Bastards was a fact of life back then as it was common place to hear it said every where as we were an english people you know.
I don't think i should or anyone should have to endure full on con artist who prey on the vulnerable and this vile disgrace is still encouraged by snobs today in the year 2012 even the PC mob does it. I my self oppose people like this directly as i will not stand for it at all.

Manners and civility has nothing to do with pretentious snobbery. There is very little manners and civility in this forum. When I see it it is quite refreshing. There is little discussion in the midst of a tavern brawl. Nobody can receive anything when the fists are up in the air. I see combatants who think they are doing God a service by plummeting their brothers. And they do it with scriptures.

By What Authority?

A Challenge to Protestant Pastors

lawrance · Oct 9, 2012

kepha31 said:
Manners and civility has nothing to do with pretentious snobbery. There is very little manners and civility in this forum. When I see it it is quite refreshing. There is little discussion in the midst of a tavern brawl. Nobody can receive anything when the fists are up in the air. I see combatants who think they are doing God a service by plummeting their brothers. And they do it with scriptures.

By What Authority?
A Challenge to Protestant Pastors

I have just given you a look in to the evil we are up against and you just poo poo it all. in a bigoted way. and i wonder why this is so prevalent still in our world.
This just goes to show you do not care or are way above such things. People have the right to protest you know, as it's the only way to be heard sometimes you know.

I think your understanding of the RCC to be very good, but i am at a loss to how or why you are easily so offended, i think it's because you don't have the so called pleasure putting up with people trying to rob you day in day out. or you think nothing of such.

I could not give a rats how one talked to me really but it's only the intentions of one's sinfulness intent and that sure comes to my attention. but as my big brother always says. i don't care what anyone calls me, as long as they don't call me late for lunch. and people call him Fabio. :lol:

epostle1 · Oct 10, 2012

MR ROSENBERGER said:
I have just given you a look in to the evil we are up against and you just poo poo it all. in a bigoted way. and i wonder why this is so prevalent still in our world.

My posts are open for all to read. If I have poo pooed away evil, use the quote feature.

This just goes to show you do not care or are way above such things. People have the right to protest you know, as it's the only way to be heard sometimes you know.

The Spouse of the Holy Spirit is accused of sleeping around on her Husband; I should have the same right to protest voluntary doubt. It's the only way to be heard sometimes you know.

BTW, according to Mosaic Law, the penalty for sleeping around is stoning to death. I'm sure the "Mary-had-other-children" crowd could find a scripture exempting her.

I think your understanding of the RCC to be very good, but i am at a loss to how or why you are easily so offended, i think it's because you don't have the so called pleasure putting up with people trying to rob you day in day out. or you think nothing of such.

First I poo poo away evil in a bigoted way, now you are telling me I live a sheltered life.

I could not give a rats how one talked to me really but it's only the intentions of one's sinfulness intent and that sure comes to my attention. but as my big brother always says. i don't care what anyone calls me, as long as they don't call me late for lunch. and people call him Fabio. :lol:

Yes, sinful intent comes to my attention as well.

Axehead · Oct 13, 2012

The 15 Promises of Our Lady to Christians Who Recite the Rosary

Whoever shall faithfully serve Me by the recitation of the Rosary, shall receive signal graces.
I promise My special protection and the greatest graces to all who shall recite the Rosary.
The Rosary shall be a powerful armor against hell, it will destroy vice, decrease sin, and defeat heresies.
It will cause virtue and good works to flourish; it will obtain for souls the abundant mercy of God; it will withdraw the hearts of men from the love of the world and its vanities, and will lift them to the desire of eternal things. Oh, that souls would sanctify themselves by this means.
The soul which recommends itself to Me by the recitation of the Rosary, shall not perish.
Whoever shall recite the Rosary devoutly, applying himself to the consideration of its sacred mysteries, shall never be conquered by misfortune. God will not chastise him in His justice, he shall not perish by an unprovided death; if he be just he shall remain in the grace of God, and become worthy of eternal life.
Whoever shall have a true devotion for the Rosary shall not die without the Sacraments of the Church.
Those who are faithful in reciting the Rosary shall have during their life and at their death the light of God and the plenitude of His graces; at the moment of death they shall participate in the merits of the saints in paradise.
I shall deliver from purgatory, those who have been devoted to the Rosary.
The faithful children of the Rosary shall merit a high degree of glory in Heaven.
You shall obtain all you ask of Me by the recitation of the Rosary.
All those who propagate the holy Rosary shall be aided by Me in their necessities.
I have obtained from My Divine Son, that all the advocates of the Rosary shall have for intercessors, the entire celestial court during their life and at the hour of death.
All who recite the Rosary are My sons, and brothers of My only son Jesus Christ.
Devotion to My Rosary is a great sign of predestination.

Isa 42:8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

Joh 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Mungo · Oct 13, 2012

Axehead said:
The 15 Promises of Our Lady to Christians Who Recite the Rosary

Whoever shall faithfully serve Me by the recitation of the Rosary, shall receive signal graces.

I promise My special protection and the greatest graces to all who shall recite the Rosary.

The Rosary shall be a powerful armor against hell, it will destroy vice, decrease sin, and defeat heresies.

It will cause virtue and good works to flourish; it will obtain for souls the abundant mercy of God; it will withdraw the hearts of men from the love of the world and its vanities, and will lift them to the desire of eternal things. Oh, that souls would sanctify themselves by this means.

The soul which recommends itself to Me by the recitation of the Rosary, shall not perish.

Whoever shall recite the Rosary devoutly, applying himself to the consideration of its sacred mysteries, shall never be conquered by misfortune. God will not chastise him in His justice, he shall not perish by an unprovided death; if he be just he shall remain in the grace of God, and become worthy of eternal life.

Whoever shall have a true devotion for the Rosary shall not die without the Sacraments of the Church.

Those who are faithful in reciting the Rosary shall have during their life and at their death the light of God and the plenitude of His graces; at the moment of death they shall participate in the merits of the saints in paradise.

I shall deliver from purgatory, those who have been devoted to the Rosary.

The faithful children of the Rosary shall merit a high degree of glory in Heaven.

You shall obtain all you ask of Me by the recitation of the Rosary.

All those who propagate the holy Rosary shall be aided by Me in their necessities.

I have obtained from My Divine Son, that all the advocates of the Rosary shall have for intercessors, the entire celestial court during their life and at the hour of death.

All who recite the Rosary are My sons, and brothers of My only son Jesus Christ.

Devotion to My Rosary is a great sign of predestination.

Isa 42:8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

Joh 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Is this official Church teaching?

Is it in the Catechism?

Is it in any Ecumenical Council documents?

Is it in a Papal Apostolic Constitution?

Please give me a reference to where I can find it in one of those.

Axehead · Oct 13, 2012

Mungo said:
Is this official Church teaching?

Is it in the Catechism?

Is it in any Ecumenical Council documents?

Is it in a Papal Apostolic Constitution?

Please give me a reference to where I can find it in one of those.

More importantly, can you give me a reference where the Roman Catholic Church, refutes and denies any of this?

Just heard about the rosary....

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