Us and Politics

"My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm." John 18:36
Among other biblical verses that carry the same or similar message, I'd like to pose a question, one that's troubled me for so many years. Why is it that Christians become so passionate about what titles they give themselves and what titles they wish to impose on others? Why must I be pro-life or pro-choice? Why must I oppose gay marriage or why must I support it? Why are the values of the right a wiser choice then those of the left and vice versa? Actually, allow me to be much more clearer on the topic I wish to debate, why is it Christians involve themselves in the affairs of men at all? If we wish to spiritually advance ourselves and reinforce the teachings of our lord Jesus Christ, then why do we pollute our minds and create the obstacles of political infighting and philosophies of the persuasion of men? As a teenager, I was much more politically charged then I am now, although the "taint" does still exist for me and I've slowly learned over the years how much politics makes hateful people out of us all. Not to mention hypocrites and in some cases, liars. I don't recall our lord and teacher, Jesus Christ, lobbying for support against greeks who murdered children because they were mentally or physically ill, I don't remember him publicly shaming or degrading those who were sexually immoral, quite the contrary, I recall him being in support of these people, seeking to redeem them. Those who shut there minds from the lord and closed there hearts, we are taught not to pursue, if they won't listen to the words of the lord, what chance does a servant of our heavenly father have? I see on the television everyday, another man who claims to be a servant of the lord, and yet hate and malice spews from there mouths. One could argue till they were blue in the face that the anger was justified, but the fact remains that they publicly display a Christian as an invidious people. So not only does politics create an obstacle for spiritual progression, it shows would-be Christians a more negative side of what we are not. God wants us to follow his laws and the laws of man for a reason, the first is to bring us up as a righteous people and the second is to make a public display to others of our godliness. How can these feats be accomplished (Both making ourselves righteous and inspiring others to seek the lord through our character) when we involve ourselves in things that will have no bearing in our salvation or the salvation of others? I know this is a strange way of introducing one's self, but I wanted to hop right into the thick of it. I've recently been cruising for a Christian forum that felt a little more personal, that wasn't to overly crowed. In my search, I've found that many Christian forums contain an area for political debate and it concerns me as I have concern for my brothers and sisters in Christ. I'm not accusing anyone here of the malice and hate I've pointed out in my objective observations of our nations self-claiming Christians. In fact, I've spent some time here coming to admire some of the forum personalities that are apart of this fine community. Anyway, I hope my questions aren't to sensitive to anyone, I'm hoping for a civil debate on the matter (I seem to enjoy playing the devils advocate more often then I should) without any passionate or heated remarks.

(Denver;14400)
I think it comes down to a matter of the environment that we live in and want for those around us. We sometimes have to become embroiled in the affairs of men to make sure that we're not pushed right out the door. You want an environment conducive to faith and an environment where your children can grow up safely without the threat of being molested, for example.There isn't one example in the Bible where God said act like an idiot (not meant towards you in any way here) and don't do anything. He instructed his followers to get swords, for example. There are times where we have to draw the line. It's difficult to bring people to the Lord when it's illegal to preach in public. It's hard to get Bibles when they're banned. Care to be thrown in a cell because you said "homosexuality is immoral?"It works on the same concept that you don't go outside when there is a tornado nearby and scream that God protects you as you run towards it. God gave us the sense to seek shelter. I realize that's a bit of a simple situation, but the point is that politics and the spiritual can and do overlap.
Excellent and very valid points. I suppose one could argue that spiritual development could potentially be enhanced if your surrounding environment is molded into a shape that shows similarities to the teachings of our lord. Then I suppose the question I should have asked is, when does or how does a Christian know when to step back and have his conscious thoughts become a devils advocate against his own political ideologies? How does he know when the guidance of the lord is ignored and his own political philosophies take precedence? I feel confident in addressing the matter because I can speak from personal experience and admit my own earthly passions overcoming my obligations to the lord. Although I'm not suggesting you have or are doing the same, I realize however, the ease of letting my own mortal ideas grab hold of me. To many times I've passed judgment on those simply based on there political persuasion's. I find my dedication is easily given to men who seek to take advantage of my faith and morals. In my life, it has been a matter of obstruction, and not molding my community into a people befitting the lord, but a community that is divided and entrenched in there own ways of thinking. I find that the end result of political prowess and dedication is discord and hostility. Whenever we seek to impose our ideals on the general masses, we are met with barriers and resentment. Although the dream is a land of perfect harmony in the lords law, we seem to end up not at where we began, but in a much more troubling state of disarray. The lord knew of the wickedness of man, I believe he saw the same disqualities in the pharisee's as we see in those who challenge our faith based beliefs and the lord didn't bother to redeem them, there hearts were already closed and there minds were already guarded against the word of god. This same lesson could be used to describe the general populace. I agree that any citizen should protest to see that murders are dealt with, that thieves answer for there crimes before the law makers and judges of man, but to try and impose and force the laws of god on men will always be met with disunity. Disregarding how the ungodly respond to Christians trying to better there communities, we must adhere to the fact that there is a very large chance that the Christian him or her self will lose there way in the process of trying to bring the lords teachings to others. We become angry that those who are astray won't accept what we perceive as simple commandments, this anger manifests into something much more difficult to escape from, and that is arrogance. We cease to guard our senses, our gates to our souls and leave ourselves vulnerable to the conniving of men, to the deceitfulness of men. In time, this pride turns into a well fortified shield of some of our most wicked passions and emotions. How does a man, so convinced of his own pride and self-righteousness ever hear the voice of reason, much less god again? In summation, I feel that in the pursuit of goodness through the means of politics (the thinking and "faith" of men), we learn to enjoy hate, to beckon anger to our sides as our companions. We replace the lord with pride and ignore his words for the rantings of silver tongued devils. This has been my experience to a degree, and my observations of many men in or striving for power.

(Romans6:10;14401)
well first I would like to start by welcoming you to the forum, and i hope you enjoy your time here.I see the point you are trying to make, and I think that the agenda for most Christians (and I'm not saying everyone, but a lot of people bear the title Christian even if they don't truly believe) is to try and fit a conversion or talking to a friend about Christ into a once-a-week-I-tried-this sort of thing were they utter words coming from the human mind instead of letting the Holy spirit take control of the conversation and prepare the soil for the planting of the seed.This also leads Christians growing their faith in the rocky ground or next to thorns (figuratively speaking or course) were if they try to grow, the pressure or persecution that comes simply from the title causes them to wither away in the faith yet still bear the same title so as not to have to hear the "Your not going to heaven because you did this and this and this" speech.Another thing that strikes a good point is that yes Jesus did try to reach the people that were down and the people that tried to live life as if there were no eternal destination. but i don't agree that we should stop trying to reach out because he is gone. he left with the call to faith and the call to ministry, if we do not minister we are forsaking what the Lord has commanded us through the apostles. The problem is that the perspective taken is the worlds, Christians who try to minister from a worldly perspective simply presume that if you want to get through to these people you have to tough 'em up for what is gonna happen next. The most important thing is to try and build some sort of trust with the person, if they trust you they are more willing to listen to what you have to say than if you try to bully them with the word, it's just human nature for things to go that way.
Thank you for the welcome, I hope I can become a valued member of your community. By the way, I have an unfortunate tendency to "come off" as insulting or arrogant and being a very facetious person doesn't help matters. So if anything I post sounds insulting to you, be quick to point that out to me and I'll be quick to apologize. I've lost the ear of so many people over the years due to this rather annoying character flaw of mine. I'm not suggesting we allow ourselves to retreat to the mountains and become hermits. Lord knows I hold the value of our ministers, youth outreach programs and the like dearly. However, politics seems to serve little to no purpose in advancing the goals of Christians, if anything it seems to distance people through the means of (As you pointed out) the conniving words of a Christian without the voice of the holy spirit and the arrogant attitude a handful of camera friendly Christians have towards those who have gone astray. Personally, I think the best place a Christian could serve would be in Americorp or the Peace Corp. Programs that focus completely on taking actions Christ would, helping the sick and poor and not speaking as though our throats are open graves, not concerning ourselves whether certain sexual unions are lawful. Although I can't sit here and completely blame and point the finger at all Christians, such things would be the words of a hypocrite (although I'm not entirely innocent of that ). I just don't see the good either way, it could be a good and honest Christian man crusading for laws to be passed that are pleasing to the lord or a man who's a Christian in name only, who seeks to change the country through hate, it all seems to end the same.Edit: Typos, atrocious spelling

(Romans6:10;14409)
Nobody is perfect in any way an nothing could really be insulting to me, but then I don't speak for any other, for all I do is try to understand and explain the word so as to reach those with a point that could potentially be of some help. And tho it may seem to end the same on the outside, God works through the flaws of society to make a difference on the inside of anyone who is willing to accept
Well the reason I said I come off as insulting, is because I don't mean to, it's just how I word my responses and posts. I'm usually a pretty decent guy to get along with, I just don't convey that well enough.