...the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

ttruscott

New Member
Feb 3, 2012
105
0
0
Wet Coast of Canada
In light of the fact that we have some verses in the Bible that tell us that the end times will bring some people (not all) a new or fuller understanding of God's Revelation, perhaps in a letter or other written form, might not this new revelation / understanding have the same weight as scripture?

Daniel 12:9 - And he said, Go thy way Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

Daniel 12:10 - Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand.

Therefore in the end times, we will be given a new understanding, a revealing of that which has been sealed previously.

Micah 4:1,2 - But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it. And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the GOD of Jacob; and HE will teach us of HIS ways, and we will walk in HIS paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.


How might this law and word go forth? Should we expect a speaker or prophet to tell us, "Thus sayeth the LORD," or maybe a letter like Paul's dissertation in Romans, or perhaps someone will write down a vision they saw?

Zechariah 5:2-5 - I see a flying roll; the length thereof is twenty cubits, and the breadth thereof ten cubits. Then he said unto me, This is the curse that goeth forth over the face of the whole earth: for every one that stealeth shall be cut off as on this side according to it; and every one that sweareth shall be cut off as on that side according to it. I will bring it forth, saith the LORD of hosts, and it shall enter into the house of the thief, and into the house of him that sweareth falsely by MY name: and it shall remain in the midst of his house, and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof.

Looks like somebody will see a roll or a book that we haven't seen yet. Might 'flying' mean heavenly or unearthly?

“Flying” is literally: covered (either with wings or feathers, or obscurity).

In other words, it might not be a flying roll at all. It might be an obscure (previously hidden) roll, denoting a new understanding of God's plan. If you think these are the end times, shouldn't we be looking for this new word?

God bless...

Ted
 

tomwebster

New Member
Dec 11, 2006
2,041
107
0
76
In light of the fact that we have some verses in the Bible that tell us that the end times will bring some people (not all) a new or fuller understanding of God's Revelation, perhaps in a letter or other written form, might not this new revelation / understanding have the same weight as scripture?

Daniel 12:9 - And he said, Go thy way Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

Daniel 12:10 - Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand.

Therefore in the end times, we will be given a new understanding, a revealing of that which has been sealed previously.

Micah 4:1,2 - But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it. And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the GOD of Jacob; and HE will teach us of HIS ways, and we will walk in HIS paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.


How might this law and word go forth? Should we expect a speaker or prophet to tell us, "Thus sayeth the LORD," or maybe a letter like Paul's dissertation in Romans, or perhaps someone will write down a vision they saw?

Zechariah 5:2-5 - I see a flying roll; the length thereof is twenty cubits, and the breadth thereof ten cubits. Then he said unto me, This is the curse that goeth forth over the face of the whole earth: for every one that stealeth shall be cut off as on this side according to it; and every one that sweareth shall be cut off as on that side according to it. I will bring it forth, saith the LORD of hosts, and it shall enter into the house of the thief, and into the house of him that sweareth falsely by MY name: and it shall remain in the midst of his house, and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof.

Looks like somebody will see a roll or a book that we haven't seen yet. Might 'flying' mean heavenly or unearthly?

“Flying” is literally: covered (either with wings or feathers, or obscurity).

In other words, it might not be a flying roll at all. It might be an obscure (previously hidden) roll, denoting a new understanding of God's plan. If you think these are the end times, shouldn't we be looking for this new word?

God bless...

Ted

They are opened up and unsealed already!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lively Stone

Stefcui

New Member
Jan 29, 2012
223
13
0
111
The City
Therefore in the end times, we will be given a new understanding, a revealing of that which has been sealed previously.

Many cults lay hold of this verse to convince people that their "new knowledge" is from God; such as Gap Theory advocates, British Israelites, JW's, SDA's, etc... This is a deception by false prophets. God will make His revelation clear to those who have repented and live rightly. This, I believe, will take place during the Great Tribulation when the two witnesses are "prophecying". If you belong to cult; you will more than likely deny that the two witnesses are genuine; even though they bring "fire down from heaven". God will give these ones His "power to prophecy for 42 months", and only true believers will listen in obedience.

Steve
 

tomwebster

New Member
Dec 11, 2006
2,041
107
0
76
Many cults lay hold of this verse to convince people that their "new knowledge" is from God; such as Gap Theory advocates, British Israelites, JW's, SDA's, etc... This is a deception by false prophets. God will make His revelation clear to those who have repented and live rightly. This, I believe, will take place during the Great Tribulation when the two witnesses are "prophecying". If you belong to cult; you will more than likely deny that the two witnesses are genuine; even though they bring "fire down from heaven". God will give these ones His "power to prophecy for 42 months", and only true believers will listen in obedience.

Steve


We'll soon see if you are correct or just another false teacher.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tomwebster

Stefcui

New Member
Jan 29, 2012
223
13
0
111
The City
We'll soon see if you are correct or just another false teacher.

I know for a certainty the Gap Theory you teach is a false teaching. Gap Theory was introduced in the 2nd century AD by Basilides. It is found in the Nag Hammadi Library written in the gnostic document called: "The Second Treatise of the Great Seth." This document is presumably written by Satan himself, and it explains from Satan’s point of view how he was unfairly treated and sent down to earth to reside in human form. The Gap Theory extrapolates from this document. It was introduced into church circles by Rosicrucians. The document called the Great Seth is gnostic, and the Gap Theory dogma is gnostic. The way the scriptures are manipulated to support this view is similar to how satan used the scripture when refuting Jesus. As I said, you need to examine your own teachings.
 

veteran

New Member
Aug 6, 2010
6,509
212
0
Southeast USA
Don't really have to wait that long Tom. The Gen.1 Gap is an idea as old as the Genesis Scripture itself...

http://www.custance.org/Library/WFANDV/chap1.html
 

tomwebster

New Member
Dec 11, 2006
2,041
107
0
76
Don't really have to wait that long Tom. The Gen.1 Gap is an idea as old as the Genesis Scripture itself...



I know that, I've taught it for years. There are many, actually the majority, that are completely unaware; their eyes are closed and they are unable to hear. And that's ok, God has blinded their eyes, someday their eyes will be opened.
 

Stefcui

New Member
Jan 29, 2012
223
13
0
111
The City
God has blinded their eyes, someday their eyes will be opened.

Tom, just because some amateur history teacher was able to convince you that the 10 tribes of Israel migrated into European nations, and that those same European nations are now the remnant of Israel awaiting the fulfilment of biblical prophecies, says a lot about how gullible you and your cronies are. I am not going to “wake up to the truth”, because is a complete distortion of historical facts.

You believe weird stuff because you are weird. You got the “truth” you deserve. If you were obedient to God in your 60 years of being a Christian God would have opened your eyes and mind to the truth, but because you and Veteran are lukewarm in your obedience to God, God has allowed you both to be deceived. Why would I want the same twisted logic and bitterness that you and Veteran have?

You are both so spiritually blind is defies belief… I would never want your twisted logic... please God!!!
 

ttruscott

New Member
Feb 3, 2012
105
0
0
Wet Coast of Canada
I know for a certainty the Gap Theory you teach is a false teaching. Gap Theory was introduced in the 2nd century AD by Basilides. It is found in the Nag Hammadi Library written in the gnostic document called: "The Second Treatise of the Great Seth." This document is presumably written by Satan himself, and it explains from Satan’s point of view how he was unfairly treated and sent down to earth to reside in human form. The Gap Theory extrapolates from this document. It was introduced into church circles by Rosicrucians. The document called the Great Seth is gnostic, and the Gap Theory dogma is gnostic. The way the scriptures are manipulated to support this view is similar to how satan used the scripture when refuting Jesus. As I said, you need to examine your own teachings.

Thanks for this but I remember that every Christian doctrine has a Satanic counterfeit that usually started before the time it was revealed to the Church and thereby they claim it to be the original...everytime.

God bless...

Ted

Is it the end?

Isaiah 11:9 - For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

The most interesting part of this verse has to be the word "full". To my mind, it modifies "the earth" and "the knowledge of the LORD". In other words, I think that the verse means something very close to this: for the full earth shall enjoy the full knowledge of the LORD.

And since this interpretation just happens to match the way that most Christians believe it will be when (after) Christ's kingdom comes, I'm going to get bold and suggest that the Church has to receive some new revelation in order to bring about such an increase in our theological knowledge.

We are left with only three alternatives:

Either we must receive new revelation,

or we must radically re-interpret our present store of facts so that they are able to bring us to the fullness of the knowledge of the LORD (which really would not happen apart from a new revelation to show us how),

or we must interpret all the Scriptures like this one as being presently fulfilled. Because I believe that we do not presently come anywhere near to fulfiling this verse, I am left to believe that we must receive new revelation, since either of the first two alternatives necessitates it.

Therefore, I believe that this Scripture lends credence and support to the idea that the Earth will still receive some more revelation from GOD. ~RLC
 

veteran

New Member
Aug 6, 2010
6,509
212
0
Southeast USA
In light of the fact that we have some verses in the Bible that tell us that the end times will bring some people (not all) a new or fuller understanding of God's Revelation, perhaps in a letter or other written form, might not this new revelation / understanding have the same weight as scripture?

Daniel 12:9 - And he said, Go thy way Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

Daniel 12:10 - Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand.

Therefore in the end times, we will be given a new understanding, a revealing of that which has been sealed previously.

Micah 4:1,2 - But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it. And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the GOD of Jacob; and HE will teach us of HIS ways, and we will walk in HIS paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.


How might this law and word go forth? Should we expect a speaker or prophet to tell us, "Thus sayeth the LORD," or maybe a letter like Paul's dissertation in Romans, or perhaps someone will write down a vision they saw?

Zechariah 5:2-5 - I see a flying roll; the length thereof is twenty cubits, and the breadth thereof ten cubits. Then he said unto me, This is the curse that goeth forth over the face of the whole earth: for every one that stealeth shall be cut off as on this side according to it; and every one that sweareth shall be cut off as on that side according to it. I will bring it forth, saith the LORD of hosts, and it shall enter into the house of the thief, and into the house of him that sweareth falsely by MY name: and it shall remain in the midst of his house, and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof.

Looks like somebody will see a roll or a book that we haven't seen yet. Might 'flying' mean heavenly or unearthly?

“Flying” is literally: covered (either with wings or feathers, or obscurity).

In other words, it might not be a flying roll at all. It might be an obscure (previously hidden) roll, denoting a new understanding of God's plan. If you think these are the end times, shouldn't we be looking for this new word?

God bless...

Ted


I think that began happening especially when our Lord Jesus gave His Revelation to John. Afterall, the name of the Book does mean 'the unveiling', and forces the devout to go back all the way to Genesis to link up its many covered subjects. And then our Lord Jesus has been opening it up more and more since His first coming, with the greatest amount being for this last generation prior to His return. Thus I believe it is laid bare right now.
 

Stefcui

New Member
Jan 29, 2012
223
13
0
111
The City
Thanks for this but I remember that every Christian doctrine has a Satanic counterfeit that usually started before the time it was revealed to the Church and thereby they claim it to be the original...everytime.

Good point. I am actually more tolerant of this view than what I let on... I make an issue with Veteran because he is so insistent about pushing it down every ones throat.

God Bless
Steve
 

PropphecyStudent

New Member
Jan 6, 2012
139
0
0
In light of the fact that we have some verses in the Bible that tell us that the end times will bring some people (not all) a new or fuller understanding of God's Revelation, perhaps in a letter or other written form, might not this new revelation / understanding have the same weight as scripture?

Daniel 12:9 - And he said, Go thy way Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

Daniel 12:10 - Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand.

Hi ttruscott,

I think verse 9 is one thought, and verse 10 is another thought which is simple a circumstance approximate to that era. So if one considered an event which would place verse 9 in context with history, one would be well considered if they simply perceived the international recognition of the nation of Israel. And having done that, then determine how each Chapter is fulfilled in each context.

As such, some might propose that times and events are prophetic to the nation of Israel, yet others assert a church aspect, but Daniel was called to prophecy to the nations. So should we be so presumptuous as to assign events and participants outside of Daniel's calling? Or should we wisely conform to his purpose?


But where this Book is the easiest to understand, (clear outlines of "players", chronological presentation of events, and the advantage of 20/20 historical hindsight), -- I would propose that this remains today the most misunderstood book of the Bible. And it's really quite easy.




PropphecyStudent
 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Apr 25, 2012
14,111
4,778
113
52
West Coast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
We'll soon see if you are correct or just another false teacher.

It cracks me up that you give yourself rep points....LOL

You could write 'Yep' 5 rep points!

kills me!
 
  • Like
Reactions: aspen

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Apr 25, 2012
14,111
4,778
113
52
West Coast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I took the liberty of repping myself ........my post was so profound, right? LOL
 
  • Like
Reactions: aspen

PropphecyStudent

New Member
Jan 6, 2012
139
0
0
Pardon me for interrupting a wonderful "christian-slander-slam-fest", but I'd like to share something funny related to Daniel 12:4 & 9.


The amplified Bible makes the following "observation":

Daniel 12
[sup]4[/sup]But you, O Daniel, shut up the words and seal the Book until the time of the end. [Then] many shall run to and fro and search anxiously [through the Book], and knowledge [of God's purposes as revealed by His prophets] shall be increased and become great.



Anyone familiar with this Book, should know there is an audience. This audience could be the Jews, it could be the church, or it could be someone else. -- Any guesses?

The truth is, Daniel was NOT called to prophesy to his kinsmen, the Jews. In fact the ONLY instance where this might be possible, is in Chapter 9, where Daniel does speak to these same. However, Daniel MUST QUOTE JEREMIAH. So although God grants him the priviledge of prophesying to the Jews, it's NOT according to his calling, and he must speak from under the mantle of Jeremiah.

Furthermore, all the commentators who ascribe those ancient prophecies to ancient events (pertaining to Maccabean period), have defied the specific angelic instruction in Daniel 12:4 & 9. So not only is this attributed audience incorrect, but so too the historical "fulfillments".

And where some presume the church as a prophetic audience, such is also not the case.

So who's left? -- The nations of the earth. For it was the Babylonians who took Daniel captive, and the Medo/Persians who he last served under. And Daniel spoke to the enduring sequence of world powers, up to and including the Millennial Kingdom.



And so we should perceive that the "going to and fro" is the normal activity of a modern global interaction, and the "knowledge shall increase" is the simple acknowledgement of "Moore's Law", which states that information doubles every 18 months. -- Something clearly applicable to the nations of the earth in these end times.



ProphecyStudent
 

veteran

New Member
Aug 6, 2010
6,509
212
0
Southeast USA
The audience is those that would understand it in the end.

As written,


Dan 12:9-10
9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
(KJV)