the rapture

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Ihsan Petros

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Is there any signs for the rapture? or the signs in the bibles related to the appearing of the LORD jesus??as i know, there is no signs for the rapture, but if we see the shadow of the sings of the tribulation which will happen after the rapture, so how close we are to our hope.
 

Ihsan Petros

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thank you for your comment, i suggest to read these booksthe MacArthur Bible commentary by John MacArthur pages ( 1757- 1578)the Mackintosh Treasury by C.H. Mackintosh pages ( 853 - 863)God bless you all
 

Christina

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I challange anyone to give me one scripture that says there will be a pre-trib rapture,flying away,catching up or anything else you want call it. good luck its not been found and proved true in the bible yet:)
 

Christina

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First off I have notice that on this board most do not subscribe to the theory of the Rapture. So get ready for some long replies. Don't think they are bashing your as this site states very clearly about it stand on that issue. They simply call it a lie. I will say this about the return of Jesus from my own perspective. I will remain in the boat with Noe aka Noah. There has been so much hype on the so called rapture that most people fail to read and understand what is really taking place in those days. I gave you a hint using the name Noe. Do a bible search using that spelling and you will find it. That is also my stand on the so called rapture. It is only going to be another spiritual ethnic group cleansing of the Earth on a very large magnitude. Yes I know I used the word ethnic look it up it means religious group also. But don't let that word divert you focus from Noe.God bless and I will see you on the boat.
What are you talking about? like in the days of Noe(Noah) is refering to marriage to the fallen angles the giving and taking of marraige is The sons of God (Angels mating with daughters of men resulting in a race of GiantsThese are Satan and his fallen Angels being refered to. Are you getting in the boat with them????They were the reason for Noahs Flood then there was a second influx and there will be a third during the sixth trumpread the appendex from the companion Bible below for proof of what I say
 

Christina

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Nephilium (fallen Angels)here is a description from the Companion Bible appendix The Nephilium appendix 25 of Companion BibleThe progeny of the fallen angels with the daughters of Adam (see notes on Gen. 6, and Ap. 23) are called in Gen. 6, Ne-phil-im, which means fallen ones (from naphal, to fall). What these beings were can be gathered only from Scripture. They were evidently great in size, as well as great in wickedness. They were superhuman, abnormal beings; and their destruction was necessary for the preservation of the human race, and for the faithfulness of Jehovah's Word (Gen. 3:15). This was why the Flood was brought "upon the world of the ungodly" (2Pet. 2:5) as prophesied by Enoch (Jude 14). But we read of the Nephilim again in Num. 13:33 : "there we saw the Nephilim, the sons of Anak, which come of the Nephilim". How, it may be asked, could this be, if they were all destroyed in the Flood? The answer is contained in Gen. 6:4, where we read : "There were Nephilim in the earth in those days (i.e. in the days of Noah); and also AFTER THAT, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became [the] mighty men (Heb. gibbor, the heroes) which were of old, men of renown" (lit. men of the name, i.e. who got a name and were renowned for their ungodliness). So that "after that", i.e. after the Flood, there was a second irruption of these fallen angels, evidently smaller in number and more limited in area, for they were for the most part confined to Canaan, and were in fact known as "the nations of Canaan". It was for the destruction of these, that the sword of Israel was necessary, as the Flood had been before. As to the date of this second irruption, it was evidently soon after it became known that the seed was to come through Abraham; for, when he came out from Haran (Gen. 12:6) and entered Canaan, the significant fact is stated : "The Canaanite was then (i.e. already) in the land." And in Gen. 14:5 they were already known as "Raphain" and Emim", and had established themselves at Asteroth Karnaim and Shaven Kiriathaim. In ch. 15:18-21 they are enumerated and named among Canaanite Peoples : "Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims, and the Amorites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites" (Gen. 15:19-21; cp. Ex. 3:8, 17; 23:23. Deut. 7; 20:17. Josh. 12:8). These were to be cut off, and driven out, and utterly destroyed (Deut. 20:17. Josh. 3:10). But Israel failed in this (Josh. 13:13; 15:63; 16:10; 17:18. Judg. 1:19, 20, 28, 29, 30-36; 2:1-5; 3:1-7); and we known not how many got away to other countries to escape the general destruction. If this were recognized it would go far to solve many problems connected with Anthropology. As to their other names, they were called Anakim, from on Anak which came of the Nephilim (Num. 13:23), and Rephaim, from Rapha, another notable one among them. From Deut. 2:10, they were known by some as Emim, and Horim, and Zamzummim (v. 20, 21) and Avim, &c. As Rephaim they were well known, and are often mentioned : but, unfortunately, instead of this, their proper name, being preserved, it is variously translated as "dead", "deceased", or "giants". These Rephaim are to have no resurrection. This fact is stated in Isa. 26:14 (where the proper name is rendered "deceased," and v. 19, where it is rendered "the dead"). It is rendered "dead" seven times (Job 26:5. Ps. 88:10. Prov. 2:18; 9:18; 21:16. Isa. 14:8; 26:19). It is rendered "deceased" in Isa. 26:14. It is retained as a proper name "Rephaim" ten times (two being in the margin). Gen. 14:5; 15:20. Josh. 12:15 (marg.). 2Sam. 5:18, 22; 23:13. 1Chron. 11:15; 14:9; 20:4 (marg.). Isa. 17:5. In all other places it is rendered "giants", Gen. 6:4; Num. 23:33, where it is Nephilim; and Job 16:14, where it is gibbor (Ap. 14. iv). By reading all these passages the Bible student may know all that can be known about these beings. It is certain that the second irruption took place before Gen. 14, for there the Rephaim were mixed up with the five nations or peoples, which included Sodom and Gomorrha, and were defeated by the four kings under Chedorlaomer. Their principal locality was evidently "Ashtaroth Karnaim"; while the Emim were in the plain of Kiriathaim (Gen. 14:5). Anak was a noted descendant of the Nephilim; and Rapha was another, giving their names respectively to different clans. Anak's father was Arba, the original builder of Hebron (Gen. 35:27. Josh. 15:13; 21:11); and this Palestine branch of the Anakim was not called Arbahim after him, but Anakim after Anak. They were great, mighty, and tall (Deut. 2:10, 11, 21, 22, 23; 9:2), evidently inspiring the ten spies with great fear (Num. 13:33). Og king of Bashan is described in Deut. 3:11. Their strength is seen in "the giant cities of Bashan" to-day; and we know not how far they may have been utilized by Egypt in the construction of buildings, which is still an unsolved problem. Arba was rebuilt by the Khabiri or confederates seven years before Zoan was built by the Egyptian Pharoahs of the nineteenth dynasty. See note on Num. 13:22. If these Nephilim, and their branch of Rephaim, were associated with Egypt, we have an explanation of the problem which has for ages perplexed all engineers, as to how those huge stones and monuments were brought together. Why not in Egypt as well as in "the giant cities of Bashan" which exist, as such, to this day? Moreover, we have in these mighty men, the "men of renown," the explanation of the origin of the Greek mythology. That mythology was no mere invention of the human brain, but it grew out of the traditions, and memories, and legends of the doings of that mighty race of beings; and was gradually evolved out of the "heroes" of Gen. 6:4. The fact that they were supernatural in their origin formed an easy step to their being regarded as the demi-gods of the Greeks. Thus the Babylonian "Creation Tablets", the Egyptian "Book of the dead", the Greek mythology, and heathen Cosmogonies, which by some are set on an equality with Scripture, or by others adduced in support of it, are all the corruption and perversion of primitive truths, distorted in proportion as their origin was forgotten, and their memories faded away.__________________
 

Christina

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Yes I have done the search and yes I have read every word of scripture on numerous occasions. And yes there is a changing (catching away to the lord)God tells us exactly when it is: Cor. 15:52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.We will ALL be changed into spirit bodies at the 7th (last) trump which is at Christs return. There will be no other rapture as believed by most churches Flesh and blood (bodies of humans)can not enter heaven.Anti christ comes in the 6th trump
 

Christina

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Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, I was explaining what these verses are talking about they are refering to third influx of fallen Angles the first was the cause of the flood, then there was a second smaller influx after the flood (this is where the giant(Goliath) David slew came from) and there will be a third which is what Mat. is talking about above. What is the subject of the Chapter Mat 24? It is the signs of the endand it will be as it was at the begining. What was happing at the beginning?There was giving and taking of marriage between the SONS OF GOD (Angels(fallen) and the daughters of men
 

Ihsan Petros

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The raptureThe word of God says "and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come" ( 1 thessalonias 1:10) The Lord Jesus will deliver us not after the wrath, not through the wrath, but before the wrath, why?? There are many reasons, I will put some points The relationship between the Lord and the believers resemble as the bridegroom and bride, I don’t think that the bride will let his fiancée endure (plagues) This is supposed scene;The bridegroom is seeing his bride attacked, and he said to her, after they finished I will rescue!!! I don’t think any one want to be like this bridegroom how devoid of love.1. Our bridegroom the LORD loves us and his promise (to keep us from the hour of trial) (Rev3:10)2. We have blessed hope ( Titus 3:13) so there is no meaning if the church will endure the tribulation , and the word ( hope) will be meaningless3. We are waiting for the mercy (Jude 21), there is no meaning of (mercy) if we will do through the tribulation 4. Another picture from the bible Rescue before wrath (Genesis 19:29) God sent Lot out of, see also 2 peter 2: 9 out of 5. The Lord’s Supper We do the Lord supper to remember HIM, till he comes (1 CORINTH 11:25-26) we don’t want to do the Lord’s super to remember that there is tribulation ahead
 

Jordan

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For some reason, I have gotten this feeling, that lots of people who believes in the rapture believes they will fly away in the flesh, while leave other flesh (unbelievers) in the tribulation with Satan...It is a 100% foolish thought and doctrine...And yes we shall ALL be changed. (to spiritual bodies) Believers and unbelievers...at the last trumpet (1 Corinthians 15:52), which is the 7th trumpet (Revelation 11:15) which the Lord will come, it is the only time the Lord will come, the trumpet of God.Lovest thou in Christ Jesus (Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour.
 

Joyful

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Rapture is popular theology and popularity sells. That's the bottom line of the mainstreams.
 

Ihsan Petros

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For some reason, I have gotten this feeling, that lots of people who believes in the rapture believes they will fly away in the flesh, while leave other flesh (unbelievers) in the tribulation with Satan...It is a 100% foolish thought and doctrine...And yes we shall ALL be changed. (to spiritual bodies) Believers and unbelievers...at the last trumpet (1 Corinthians 15:52), which is the 7th trumpet (Revelation 11:15) which the Lord will come, it is the only time the Lord will come, the trumpet of God.Lovest thou in Christ Jesus (Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour.
The last trumpetThere is no any relation between the trumpet in ( 1 corinthians 15:52) and the trumpets in the book of revelation, simply because all the trumpet in revelation for the judgment and If you read it, you will find that the trumpets related to angels but the last trumpet in 1 corinthians15 is equal to the trumpet of GOD ( 1 Thessalonians 4:16) Why Paul says the last trumpet? This kind of similarity was taken from the Roman army at that time. The fist trumpet for AlertThe second trumpet for Lining up The third for DepartWe also spirituality like this The first trumpet is the gospel, we heard the gospel and we took eternal life The second trumpet is “midnight a cry was heard: Behold the bridegroom is coming; go out to meet him ( Matt 25:6) The last trumpet is ( 1 corinthians 15:25) the coming of the LORD JESUS Even so, come, Lord Jesus! (Revelation 22:20)Note If we want to make a comparison between the verses in the bible, the bible tell us"spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual"( 1 cor 2:13). As example if I read the word (serpent) in matt ( 10:16) I will be wrong if I compare it with ( Revelation 12:9) there is no relation between these versesNote2 " you said we all ( believers and unbelievers ) will changed !! can you answer me these questionscan the unbelievers singing this song ( 1 corinthians 15: 55)can we say about the unbelievers " sleep in Jesus" ( 1 thess 4:14) can we say about the unbelievers " dead in Christ" ( 1 thess4:16)my friends we need to study the bible more accurately ( Acts 18:26)
 

Christina

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Sorry Ihsan but you are just plain wrong we must follow subject and object what is cor. taking about ? Christ, and then a mystery this is not about any roman army. Its the mystery of the second coming.And the trumpet of God is the last trump it is the 7th trump the second Coming of the Lord at the last trump the 7th trump the trump of God this is the same trump same event.Behold the trump of God:15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will reign for ever and ever."
 
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Remember, when you were younger, and the church use to tell you were all waiting for the day of the Lord so we can rise again. Maybe they showed you a movie first, or had a speaker. Back then we didn't question things like we do now. But, believers back then clearly believed they weren't with the Lord and that when they died the had to wait for Him to return to raise (our bodies up) from the grave somehow and then change us to be like him. Common sense tells you the rapture theory is non-sense. Perpetuated by ... well I won't go into the history here. But clearly, though there faith was present in believers, the theology behind it was truly ignorant and lacking.
 

Ihsan Petros

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Sorry Ihsan but you are just plain wrong we must follow subject and object what is cor. taking about ? Christ, and then a mystery this is not about any roman army. Its the mystery of the second coming.And the trumpet of God is the last trump it is the 7th trump the second Coming of the Lord at the last trump the 7th trump the trump of God this is the same trump same event.Behold the trump of God:15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will reign for ever and ever."
thank you Krissif you want to interpret a verse you know you need to return to the whole chapter to see what is all about, so if you read chapter 15 in the first chorinthians you will realize he is talking about ( resurrection ) but in revelation 11:15 he is talking about ( the kindom proclaimed) "the kingdoms of this world have been come the kingdoms of our Lord and of his Christ , so this scene is in earth but the scene in 1 chorinthinns 15 in heaven
 

HammerStone

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If the latter part I Corinthians 15 were only about the resurrection, then why can I still pinch this old flesh body?I Corinthians 15:52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.That is, of course, completely ignoring the last trump.
 

Christina

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Mathew and Luke both say only 50% not ALL. Unless that mention of the return of the Son of Man is yet another return? What about that?God Bless
Your going to have to show me where it says 50% and what you are saying sorry I dont understand
 

Ihsan Petros

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I want to continue the issue The events of consequence which the bible declares are:The coming of the Lord Jesus for the church (the believers) see John 14:3, Philippians 3:20-21, 1 thessalonians 1:10 please see the verb ( wait) , 1 thessalonians 4:13-18Titus 2:13, Romans 8:25, James 5:7-8, Jude 21.Second thing the tribulation (7 years) (revelation 11:3, 12:6, 12:14, 13:5) After that the appearance (revealing) of the Lord JesusThe most important things will happen are The judgment of the nations, see ( mattthew 25:31-46) The Lord reign ( 1 chorinthians 15:24-25) see also (Revelation 20:4-7)The judgment of the wicked dead ( revelation 20:11-15)Eternity ( revelation 21-22 )
 

Christina

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None of the verses you mention have anything to do with a pre-trib rapture yes they for the most part speak of the coming of the lord but none say it will be any time but the appointed time of the Last (7th) Gods trump.John 14:3 "And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto Myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."This is Jesus' promise to you and I today, as much as it was to those eleven disciples sitting at the supper table with Him two thousand years ago. Jesus is telling us that we can count on Him, He is returning to earth to receive His own, and be with them here on earth during the Millennium age Kingdom.No rapture herePhilippians 3:20 "For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:""Our conversation" is the "Word of God", and that Word comes from God who is in heaven. That Word of God tells us that Jesus Christ is going to come again, and we are earnestly looking forwardly to that day of his coming. No rapture herePhilippians 3:21 "Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body, according to the working whereby He is able even to subdue all things unto Himself."Yes at the sounding to the seventh and last trumpet, we will get rid of these flesh bodies, and put on a new and glorious body that shall never age. For all those in our generation that do not bend a knee to Satan the Antichrist, and take his name or number, and hold fast with patience to the end of this flesh age. Just as Cor 15:52 tells usNo rapture hereTitus 2:13 "Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ;"At the seventh and Last trump just as Ive saidRomans 8:25 "But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it."This is what our faith in Jesus Christ is based upon. We hope for that which we cannot see, And wait for his second coming at the last trumpJames 5:7 "Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain."Patience is one of the most difficult things for any man to have, for everything must come to pass in the due course of time. When you go out and plant a tree, you have to wait for the tree to mature before it can give you its fruit. There is a time coming when the fruits of all mankind's labor will be rewarded, and that time is at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Again no rapture we are to simply be paietient and wait (till the last trump)James 5:8 "Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh."Be firm in your mind, and have the patience to wait on the Lord. He will do everything that He has promised in His course in time. God has laid out the sequential order of the things that will happen at the end of this earth age, and written them in His Word. Jude 21 "Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life."You keep yourselves in the love and mercies of God by studying His Word and following it's instructions. That is walking by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, and the result of that walk is eternal life.As I said none of these verses show anything but that the Lord is returningand we should have faith be patient and wait. Untill when the Trump of God which is his return which is also the last and 7th trump.Now I have covered most all your verses except 1 Thess which I will cover in the next post because it requires a little history. As for your verses on Rev I dont understand how you are using them to prove rapture.