Researching the original sin fiasco

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John Zain

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I call it a fiasco because the Jews don't believe it, nor do many "Christians".
And the Muslims really freak out about it (their Qur'an says man just chooses to sin).

David explains why all humans are sinners … their inherited sin nature
“Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin my mother conceived me.” (Psalm 51:5)
“The wicked (sons of men, verse 1) are estranged from the womb;
they go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies.” (Psalm 58:3)


David tells of the disasterous consequences
“The Lord looks down from heaven upon the children of men … They have all turned aside,
they have all become corrupt; there is none who does good, no, not one.” (Psalm 14:2-3)
“God looks down from heaven upon the children of men … Every one of them has turned aside;
they have all become corrupt; there is none who does good, no, not one.” (Psalm 53:2-3)
“… for in Your sight no one living is righteous.” (Psalm 143:2)


Solomon was the wisest and most influential king in Israel’s history
“When they sin against You (for there is no one who does not sin) …” (1 Kings 8:46)
“When they sin against You (for there is no one who does not sin) …” (2 Chronicles 6:36)
“Who can say, ‘I have made my heart clean, I am pure from my sin’?” (Proverbs 20:9)
“For there is not a just man on earth who does good and does not sin.” (Ecclesiastes 7:20)


Job was blameless and upright
This means he shunned evil and sin, but when he did slip, he immediately
and sincerely repented… which is the absolute best any human can do.

“Man who is born of woman is of few days and full of trouble. …
Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? No one!” (Job 14:1-4)

All humans have the sin nature, so how could any offspring not have the sin nature?
This “man who is born of woman” theme is repeated in Job 15:14-16 and Job 25:4.


Isaiah addresses Israel
“For I knew that you (Israel) … were called a transgressor from the womb.” (Isaiah 48:8)
“For we are all like an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are like
filthy rags (women’s menstral cloths)” (Isaiah 64:6)

All of the Israelites were born sinners … and everyone else is also.

Why didn’t Moses seem to have this revelation?
God gave Moses the all-important Ten Commandments at a critical time.
It was very understandable and necessary that Moses was not told about man’s hopeless
sin nature, and that it was totally impossible for the Israelites to follow God’s Law.
Moses had to be in the most positive, encouraging, and demanding mode possible
to give the Israelites the maximum chance to succeed at following God’s Law.
Yes, God gave them every opportunity to succeed, but they failed miserably.


The main reason for God giving the Law
God gave the Law to PROVE that it is totally impossible for man to please Him.
So, everyone is a sinner, and no one is acceptable to be with God for all of eternity.
God needed to intervene somehow, if ANYONE was to have ANY chance of Heaven.


Jews … how can you not believe in original sin?
Muslims … how can you say God’s prophets were all sinless?
Christians … how can you especially not believe in original sin?


Jesus said His 12 disciples were evil
“If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children …” (Luke 11:13)
Do you think Jesus purposely chose evil men to be His disciples?
No, of course not … He is simply saying that all men are evil.


Jesus understood man’s disasterous spiritual condition
“Now when He was in Jerusalem at the Passover, during the feast, many believed in His
name when they saw the signs which He did. But Jesus did not commit Himself to them,
because He knew all men, and had no need that anyone should tell Him about man,
for He knew what was in man.” (John 2:23-25)

Jesus explains:“I am He who searches the minds and hearts.” (Revelation 2:23)
“Out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries,
fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies.” (Matthew 15:19)

John 2 above occurred months before the Holy Spirit took Jesus’ place (John 14:16-26).
The Pharisees said to a man,
“You were completely born in sins …” (John 9:34)

Paul (the Jewish scholar) just repeated what his Old Covenant Scriptures say
“As it is written: ‘There is none righteous, no, not one … there is none who does good,
no, not one.’ ” (Romans 3:10-12).
Paul is quoting here from Psalm 53:2-3.
“The Scripture has confined all under sin …” (Galatians 3:22)
“… through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin,
and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned …” (Romans 5:12)
“… through one man’s offense judgment came to all men,
resulting in condemnation … in Adam all die …” (1 Corinthians 15:18, 22)
“And you He made alive, who were (spiritually) dead in trespasses and sins” (Eph. 2:1-3)


Why did God want a sinless human (but there wasn’t one)?
One of God's major laws: Sin must result in physical and spiritual death.
Man has a BIG problem … all humans are hopeless sinners, incapable of
atoning for their sins, and doomed to lose Heaven and gain Hell.
God has BIG grace … and He stepped in with an incredibly ingenious plan.
God said, “I'm sinless ... I'll die in their place.”
And He miraculously produced His perfect sinless human (Jesus) (Luke 1:26-35).
And Jesus shedding His blood would satisfy God's ancient blood covenant.
But, why also have Jesus be totally and fully God?
It’s just an infinitely more impressive demonstration of His love for us.
 

justaname

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There are three who were created without sin. Adam, Eve, and Jesus. Two failed and One has overcome. What we have is total depravity, which is where the rest of religion leaves us. Bless God for being a God who saves, for overcoming. To believe is to be set free indeed. The penalty for sin is death. The reward for believing is eternal life. I need Jesus Christ, as does the rest of the world. Without this revelation, eyes are blinded into attempting to go at it alone, or worse yet with a false god. Those blind ones are destined to die the second death. I can only pray God has mercy to open their eyes before their time has expired.
 

ttruscott

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John Zain,

what a great compilation of the "born in sin" doctrine. And from Romans 7:14-25 we can see that this enslavement to sin destroys our free will.

This is the prime reason I look to a pre-earth existence to understand our fall as being by our own choice.

Looking forward to following where you are going to take this...

God's peace,

Ted
 

Lively Stone

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John Zain,

what a great compilation of the "born in sin" doctrine. And from Romans 7:14-25 we can see that this enslavement to sin destroys our free will.

This is the prime reason I look to a pre-earth existence to understand our fall as being by our own choice.

Looking forward to following where you are going to take this...

God's peace,

Ted

When one is confronted or stymied by something that is true about God, one can either reject it, or make up something that is more palatable to one's sensibilities, which is even worse that flat out rejection, as it keeps up a more complicated barrier between a person and God that needs overcoming. It is so much easier to accept the fact that we are born needing a Saviour than to believe we are born already saved. What do you think happens---that we lose our salvation when we sin at age three when we hit our brothers, or lie to our mothers?
 

veteran

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There are three who were created without sin. Adam, Eve, and Jesus. Two failed and One has overcome. What we have is total depravity, which is where the rest of religion leaves us. Bless God for being a God who saves, for overcoming. To believe is to be set free indeed. The penalty for sin is death. The reward for believing is eternal life. I need Jesus Christ, as does the rest of the world. Without this revelation, eyes are blinded into attempting to go at it alone, or worse yet with a false god. Those blind ones are destined to die the second death. I can only pray God has mercy to open their eyes before their time has expired.


God was pointing to Satan in the Ezekiel 28 Scripture, and there He said He originally created Satan an anointed cherub that was 'perfect in his ways' before iniquity was found in him. That predates the time when God created Adam and Eve and placed them in His Garden.
 

John Zain

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And from Romans 7:14-25 we can see that this enslavement to sin destroys our free will.

I see an equal (or greater) destroyer of man's free will as being Satan.
I.E. There are several verses which explain that he blinds men's eyes, etc.


God may speak to the unsaved in a still small voice,
but Satan's demons are much more pushy and insistent in what they're selling.
People are actually "driven" to commit suicide, adultery, drugs, alcohol, etc.
... and to not believe in the "foolish" gospel.

P.S. God has spoken to me in the small still voice, a medium-volume voice, and a LOUD voice.
 

ttruscott

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When one is confronted or stymied by something that is true about God, one can either reject it, or make up something that is more palatable to one's sensibilities, which is even worse that flat out rejection, as it keeps up a more complicated barrier between a person and God that needs overcoming. It is so much easier to accept the fact that we are born needing a Saviour than to believe we are born already saved. What do you think happens---that we lose our salvation when we sin at age three when we hit our brothers, or lie to our mothers?
Ahh, thanks for asking...

I think that one of the prerequisits of a true free will choice is full understanding without proof. I know that this isn't always self evident but I'll hold off with the long version till later.

I think that as part of the full understanding, GOD instructed us in the meaning of election for those who made the true free will choice to accept HIM as LORD and the gospel for any of those elect who might fall into sin after becoming elect. This of course is what happened and so HE sent us to earth to learn the suffering that sin causes, and the eternal nature or HIS enemies evil.

The biggest part is thought that we must learn to trust GOD and be holy (the first lesson of Genesis in the garden - the skin coats) so we will join HIM in HIS judgement of HIS enemies no matter who they are in this life, family, friends, neighbours etc.

Of course I don't expect this to answer every question but I'll be around...

God bless,

Ted
 

justaname

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God was pointing to Satan in the Ezekiel 28 Scripture, and there He said He originally created Satan an anointed cherub that was 'perfect in his ways' before iniquity was found in him. That predates the time when God created Adam and Eve and placed them in His Garden.
Do you think the iniquity surprised God?
 

Lively Stone

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Ahh, thanks for asking...

I think that one of the prerequisits of a true free will choice is full understanding without proof. I know that this isn't always self evident but I'll hold off with the long version till later.

To choose by faith is to do so WITHOUT full understanding OR proof. Holy Spirit does the convicting of sin and the convincing of what is true.

I think that as part of the full understanding, GOD instructed us in the meaning of election for those who made the true free will choice to accept HIM as LORD and the gospel for any of those elect who might fall into sin after becoming elect. This of course is what happened and so HE sent us to earth to learn the suffering that sin causes, and the eternal nature or HIS enemies evil.

We weren't sent to Earth. We were conceived here. Jesus was SENT to Earth to bear the suffering of all sin and to relieve us of the suffering that sin wreaks on us.

The biggest part is thought that we must learn to trust GOD and be holy (the first lesson of Genesis in the garden - the skin coats) so we will join HIM in HIS judgement of HIS enemies no matter who they are in this life, family, friends, neighbours etc.

Yes we must learn to trust God, but we must know Him through His wonderful and awesome Son, Jesus---which is salvation. He wants us to be saved from punishment.
 

ttruscott

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Do you think the iniquity surprised God?

Must admit, I have no idea. I understand little about Satan.

Peace,

Ted

To choose by faith is to do so WITHOUT full understanding OR proof. Holy Spirit does the convicting of sin and the convincing of what is true.



We weren't sent to Earth. We were conceived here. Jesus was SENT to Earth to bear the suffering of all sin and to relieve us of the suffering that sin wreaks on us.



Yes we must learn to trust God, but we must know Him through His wonderful and awesome Son, Jesus---which is salvation. He wants us to be saved from punishment.


:)
 

ttruscott

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...To choose by faith is to do so WITHOUT full understanding OR proof. Holy Spirit does the convicting of sin and the convincing of what is true....

If I may speak to this at length: I find the secular version of free will to be sadly lacking when it comes to spiritual topics. So I offer this and ask that if any have a better or deeper version or definition of free will that they let me know...

The Nature of Free Will (short version):

1. A true free will choice must not be coerced by any compulsion of any kind; either by fear, love or hate nor of ideas of good and evil or of God’s true nature, ie, the person must be in a true state of ingenuous innocence, lacking in any guile or worldliness.

[Ref: definition of ingenuous: http://www.thefreedi...m/ingenuousness as: 1. Lacking in cunning, guile worldliness; artless. 2. Openly straightforward or frank; candid.]

Nor can it be compelled by any prior event impinging on their life or sensibility - they must be totally free from coercions or seductions known and unknown, physically, emotionally and mentally.

Nor can it be compelled, impelled or forced by any inner nature, any genetic programming of their biology nor spiritual nature from God. A tape recorder saying, "I love Jesus." is meaningless and has no love at all and a tape recorder saying, "I hate Jesus." is guilty of nothing.

2. The person must understand the consequences of their choice or it is a guess, not a choice. “What will happen if I choose left or right, the red pill or the blue pill?” must be answered in full theological detail.

But "PROOF" of the nature of the consequence would compel or coerce the person to choose what was proven to be the best for them. If the answer “death here,” “life there,” was proven, which would you choose? The weight of knowledge would destroy the effect of a true ‘free will’ choice.

Therefore they must know, but without proof, the nature of the consequences of their choice. Such a choice, might be described as making a choice based on faith.

Only in a situation / system / reality where these things could be true can a true free will choice be made. If you know of a better way to describe how a choice could be free of any and all seduction or coercion, I'd love to hear of it.

Now, if the room still seems to empty and like a vacuum, there there is a longer, detailed version that includes the Problems of Creation, Election and Free Will:

God bless...

Ted
 

Lively Stone

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Deuteronomy 30:19
“Today I have given you the choice between life and death, between blessings and curses. Now I call on heaven and earth to witness the choice you make. Oh, that you would choose life, so that you and your descendants might live!

It's an easy choice. The work for us is done as far as the set-up. It's the Holy Spirit who reveals to us the truth of the situation: we are sinners in need of saving...and Jesus is the Saviour. No coercion, no unholy fear, and no seduction.
 

veteran

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Do you think the iniquity surprised God?

I can't suppose to speak for God on that, but only about what He revealed concerning Satan sinning against Him first.

It gets into the realm of why God created Satan, the angels, and us, with free will. And the times involving that has to be rightly divided per Scripture.

That also gets into the area of just when the concept of evil began, and who was the original author of it. Not sure if we want another one of those long debates about the origin of evil, iniquity, etc., but per Scripture, I see it as having begun with Satan by use of his free will choice to rebel against God.

Prior to Satan's rebellion I don't see any example of sin or iniquity or death written of in God's Word. Nor do I see any after the "lake of fire" event and establishing of God's new heavens and a new earth. Many appear to have a problem with thinking that far back when Satan first sinned, and confuse that time as being in connection to the Gen.3 Garden of Eden events.

Understanding about free will choice should be easy to comprehend. It's because God created some heavenly creatures (the 'zoon' of Rev.5), that do not have free will, but were created to specifically guard His Throne. (See Gen.3:22-24 also). Those serve as a contrast to the free will He gave us and the angels.

Another contrast to free will exists in Isaiah 65:18, where He said in final He's going to "create" (Hebrew bara) Jerusalem and her people a joy. That idea is also written in Ezekiel 11 about God's people being given "one heart" and "a new spirit" in His future eternal Kingdom. This is where Apostle Paul was pulling from in The Old Testament with the "new creature" idea for those in Christ Jesus.

I don't recall Paul going into the detail like the OT has it about God making us over in that future time, because he taught the "new creature" idea as having already begun within us believers under Christ Jesus via The Holy Spirit. The OT detail gives a bit more info, because evidently the full "new creature" state is with the manifesting of the "sons of God" along with the redemption of our body at Christ's second coming, which is still a hope for today.

I link God's doing that in full with us in His future Kingdom being for after the "lake of fire" event, when it's certain that every soul has made their free will choice to live with and obey Him for the Eternity or not.
 

ttruscott

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Deuteronomy 30:19
“Today I have given you the choice between life and death, between blessings and curses. Now I call on heaven and earth to witness the choice you make. Oh, that you would choose life, so that you and your descendants might live!

It's an easy choice. The work for us is done as far as the set-up. It's the Holy Spirit who reveals to us the truth of the situation: we are sinners in need of saving...and Jesus is the Saviour. No coercion, no unholy fear, and no seduction.

You just have to beat your slavery to sin and your total inability to seek GOD while living on earth:
Romans 7:14-24
14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin.
15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.


John 8:34
Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin


Romans 3:10 As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one;

which we can't do or we would be saved by works not grace.

So why does GOd talk about us choosing HIM over sin? Because we need to learn to be sanctified and holy in HIS sight.. Such choices don't save us because the elect are saved in Christ already and the non-elect will never be saved but once you are converted, it is your duty to become holy or you will suffer.

Blessings,

Ted
 

Lively Stone

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You just have to beat your slavery to sin and your total inability to seek GOD while living on earth:
Romans 7:14-24
14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin.
15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.


John 8:34
Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin


Romans 3:10 As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one;

which we can't do or we would be saved by works not grace.

So why does GOd talk about us choosing HIM over sin? Because we need to learn to be sanctified and holy in HIS sight.. Such choices don't save us because the elect are saved in Christ already and the non-elect will never be saved but once you are converted, it is your duty to become holy or you will suffer.

Blessings,

Ted

I am not a slave to sin, but I am free from sin through Jesus Christ's blood. We don't have tolearn to be sanctified. Jesus does the sanctifying. We do have to learn how to obey God. Jesus makes us holy, and because of the blood over us, and the grace of God, He sees us as holy already.
 

ttruscott

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I am not a slave to sin, but I am free from sin through Jesus Christ's blood. We don't have tolearn to be sanctified. Jesus does the sanctifying. We do have to learn how to obey God. Jesus makes us holy, and because of the blood over us, and the grace of God, He sees us as holy already.

Perhaps.

And perhaps you should look at this...

Here is a study on our need for holiness and how it was taught at the very beginning...(taken from a longer work):

11. MISFITS, the first.[1]

Well, just about last, and quite possibly least, there are a few verses that just do not seem to fit very well into any category, exceptional or otherwise! (Imagine, they are just like the elect! There always seems to be a few on the perimeter, although these days there seems to be quite a few. But hooray for Christian preconception existence theology; it even has a place for the misfits, howbeit, on the Earth, somewhat near the end!)

Genesis 3:21 - For Adam also and for his wife did the LORD GOD make coats of skin, and clothed them.

In this type[2] there are four things.

First is the fig leaves of Genesis 3:7b - … and they sewed fig leaves together…

Second is the aprons of 3:7c - … and made themselves aprons.

Third is the shed blood (which is not mentioned, but you do
not obtain animal skins without shedding some blood).

Fourth is the skin coats of 3:21.

Thus we have four separate things being combined in two ways, to wit: the fig leaf - aprons, and the blood - skin coats.

To understand the spiritual truth conveyed in this type, we must first understand what the two dualities or combinations represent. Therefore, let's take a look to see what these things represent in the spiritual realms.

The first combination is the fig leaf - aprons. May I suggest that these represent Adam and Eve's attempt to be reconciled with GOD, i.e., their attempt to escape the penalty for being naked and disobedient (disfellowship and impending death), viz., their attempt to be where they were before they were (bad) naked and disobedient, i.e., to have true peace with GOD again.

In other words, the fig leaf - aprons would represent the way for them to become righteous again (so far as being naked and this command are concerned), and holy (no longer willing to accept the serpent as a good person) if they would have worked.

However because they did not work, they must represent all false or counterfeit ways of becoming righteous and holy.[3] In other words, they symbolise a counterfeit Christianity.[4]

Second comes the blood and coats of skin. May I suggest that these represent GOD's provision for their reconciliation with HIM (which we will look into a little deeper in a moment).

The next thing I'd like to examine is the reason(s) why the fig leaf - aprons did not work. Why was GOD not satisfied with this covering of their nakedness? Why were they still the same as being naked in HIS sight? Well I believe that they did not work because they failed to stop that which was out to kill them (which Adam and Eve had set in motion by eating the fruit).

Now they were not going to die because the fruit was poisonous. The fruit itself was good on three counts. The reason they were going to die was because of the poisonousness of the act of eating, that is, the poisonousness of the act of disobeying GOD.[5]

Hence, we can see that what they had done wrong is that they had set aside GOD's purpose for them and were doing something else instead. (All by mistake, of course!) Now this is a very grave situation indeed, even worse than eating poison.[6]

Hence, we can see that what was out to get them was GOD's justice and holiness, that is, the retributive and exilic demands of these two attributes.

Hence we can see that the fig leaf - aprons did not work
first, because nothing had borne the wrath of GOD {ripping leaves off fig trees does not satisfy GOD's wrath (justice) nor does self-imposed suffering[7], viz., the religion of man - Adam.}

Second, they did not work because Adam and Eve were still not willing to fulfil GOD's purpose for them, viz., GOD's purpose for them was not that they should be “dressed in fig leaves". He wanted them to be clothed with something else.[8] Thus the fig leaf - aprons failed to satisfy both HIS justice and HIS holiness.

The third thing we need to examine is the two aspects of the blood - coats that worked.

The first aspect is that GOD judged (killed) some animal(s) on their behalf, that is, instead of them. Thus HIS justice “was satisfied” because something else had borne the retribution for them.

The second aspect is that GOD clothed them with the skins of the slain animal(s). This covering fitted HIS purpose for them.[9] It was the kind of clothes HE wanted them to wear.

I hope that you can see that this little episode constitutes a good example on how to get back together with GOD to the extent of “getting back into HIS garden in peace”.

The shed blood typlifies the sacrifice of Jesus that can satisfy GOD's justice and justify us. (The holy elect are now and forever righteous by this free gift from GOD.) The putting on and wearing of the coats which satisfied GOD's holiness, typlifies the putting on (permanently) of the new person created in righteousness and holiness (justified by Jesus' sacrifice and permanently separated in spirit from GOD's enemies, viz., willing to judge them, viz., faithful in GOD's sight as per Ephesians 4:24, 5:27[10]).

Now, it is of the utmost importance to make the distinction between the blood and the coats, that is, you must realise that HE did not cover their nakedness by the shed blood of the animal(s), that is, through the shedding of the blood that can justify. Rather, it was the putting on and wearing of the skin coats that covered their nakedness, that is, that brought them back into a peaceful relationship with GOD. In other words, they were not forgiven until they had put on the coats.

Therefore, we should be able to see that although the shedding of the blood was involved with and a necessary prerequisite to their being covered,[11] the foremost or most vital aspect was the putting on of the coats.

For example, 3:21 says absolutely nothing about the sacrificial death(s). In other words, even though the blood has been shed, the Church still can not get back into the garden (past the judgement) until it has put on the coats, viz., until we all put on the person created in holiness, viz., until we all become holy, which is much different than believing in the blood (realising that Jesus died for our sin).[12]

Now this would all be quite easy to understand except for the fact that there are these other interpretations that say that all you need to be saved, reborn, forgiven, redeemed, adopted, whisked away to Paradise when you die, granted eternal life, made righteous, made holy, made perfect, resurrected, et cetera, is to be covered by a belief in the shed blood.

In other words, you do not have to be holy to have any of these things. Holiness is just an added extra, it does not matter when you pick it up. Take your time. (Fig leaves are still in fashion!!!!)

Well in spite of the ever increasing mound of Biblical Scholarship, it is not too hard to understand if one keeps in mind that there are two different aspects to having peace with GOD, to wit: the blood and the coats, viz., not just the fact of the shed blood and the acceptance or belief in that fact, but two different facts.

The blood is a free gift to the holy elect (viz., to those whose faith is unto holiness). GOD does all this work. There is nothing you can do to merit being justified, viz., to merit escaping GOD's wrath, the penalty due for your sin. It is done, complete, finished. You are righteous[13]: just as righteous as GOD, just as righteous as if you had never sinned, and just as righteous as you will ever be. GOD's justice has absolutely no claim in your regard.

Now, the situation is not the same for the coats. Christ's sacrifice does not make you holy, viz., willing to judge HIS enemies. No indeed! That is something you have to do. It is a work,[14] a very hard work, a work you are not willing to do for if you were, you would not be here.[15] Furthermore, without this work, your “faith” (justification) means nothing,[16] viz., you are still kept out of “Eden”, you still do not have true peace with GOD,[17] you are still not forgiven, redeemed, reborn, adopted, for if HE held HIS judgement, you too would be judged on account of your abiding unity with HIS enemies.


But, on account of GOD's election of some, HE will never hold HIS judgement until all the elect become holy.[18] To say it another way, if you are not holy at the time of HIS judgement, it will not matter how much faith you have, you will not be forgiven, you will be condemned (Matthew 7:21, 22:11).[19]

In other words, without holiness we are in the position Adam and Eve were in just after GOD had killed the animal(s), but before they had put on the skin coats, viz., standing there with their fig leaves on, believing in the blood, thankful as can be,[20] but naked as new born babes in GOD's sight.

To put in NT terms, we are in the same position as the Laodiceans of Revelation 3:17 - Knowest not that thou are wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked?

Here Jesus again uses the examples of nakedness and blindness to show the Church its needs,[21] but He is doing this after His sacrifice had been made and they had been “converted”.[22]

This means that the “needed” things or emphasis was entirely upon their need for holiness in order that they could be right with Him, for they no longer needed that GOD should make a sacrifice to justify them.

What they needed was to put on the coats, the new man in Christ, in order that they could truly have peace with Him.

As Jesus said in Revelation 3:17-20 - I counsel thee to buy of Me gold tried in the fire, (unadulterated or holy faith), that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed (symbolic of purification unto holiness) and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear (to all the covered, you are stopping My judgement); and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see (that MY enemies are irrevocable in their choice to be evil, you must become holy). As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten; be zealous, therefore, and repent (of your unholiness). Behold, I stand at (outside) the door (of the heart of this kind of Christian); and knock (seek acceptance of My holy word). If any man hear My voice, and open the door (come into unity with My holiness); I will come into him, and will sup with him (commune intimately, you will no longer be alone), and he with Me.

So then, when it comes to being saved from GOD's wrath and having peace with HIM, there is nothing you can do and there is something you must do.[23] There is nothing you can do because your saving sacrifice must be wrought by GOD. There is something you must do because you must put on the coat (white raiment), viz., become holy, viz., become willing to judge HIS enemies, viz., open the door to HIM and let HIM in, viz., be adopted, viz., repent, at least of your unholiness.

In other words, the mere belief in HIS saving sacrifice gets you no closer to GOD's kingdom than you are right now. Until you repent and open up (believe) to the extent of being holy, you are just putting in correctional time, either down here or in the worlds of the dead. We were “put out” for not being holy and we will not get back in until we are holy, even though the blood has been shed.

In other words, without holiness we just stay in the exilic state we have been in for the last ~6000 years, and Jesus will not clean up this place (hold His judgement), until it fulfils the purpose HE created it to do, viz., to bring everyone of the elect unto repentance and faith unto holiness, and when it does, then we will get to live in the Promised Land in peace.[24]
~RLC
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Notes for 11, Misfits, the first

1 - Otherwise known as the uncategory.

2 - This is a very important type (example) and I am afraid that very many people have not fully understood it. Therefore, because it is so important and so misunderstood, I would like to add my say to the already large pile of Biblical Scholarship.

In other words, since (many of) our theologians have erred in their diagnosis of the cause of our problems with GOD, perhaps we should take another look at the solution GOD gave us in Genesis, because they probably made some mistakes there too, being that these things are so intimately related.

In other words, this is not a verse that gives direct proof that we existed before our conception but rather, it shows that the Scriptures say that the most important aspect of having “peace with GOD again in Eden” is our becoming holy, which fact exactly matches preconception existence theology.

3 - I.e., of getting back to Eden.

4 - Otherwise known as unsaving faith. Checked lately to see what material your raiment (wedding garment) is made of? Or didn't you know that fig leaves are now being marketed under the brand name “Whiter than white linen"? Checked to see if it is clean and well pressed, as per Ephesians 5:27?

5 - Hence, the poisonousness of being unholy, since that is why they disobeyed.

6 - If you do not recognise the gravity of the situation, please refer back to the WAGES OF SIN, about page 16 in THY WILL BE DONE.

7 - See Genesis note 33 on fig leaves.

8 - Most likely in the willingness to judge and be separate from HIS enemies, viz., in faith unto holiness at least. It is not explicit in the Scriptures, but from the general drift of Genesis 3:7-14, it seems that they were very close to the serpent when GOD found them. Was it just ironic coincidence, or could it be that they went to the serpent for help to hide? Perhaps they were just mysteriously drawn to his presence?

9 - Most likely because it symbolised believing in GOD to the degree of being willing to not ever eat of the forbidden fruit anymore, that is, of not ever listening to the serpent anymore, that is, it symbolised their being holy.

10 - Ephesians 4:24 and 5:27 - And that ye put on the new man, which after GOD is created in righteousness and true holiness. / That He might present it to Himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish (in this regard at least).

11 - Viz., being forgiven, made righteous, made holy, at peace with GOD.

12 - As Jesus warned (the latter day Church) in Luke 17:21 - Remember Lot's wife. She had to look back to her family and friends. I guess she did not like what she saw, viz., she did not think that GOD was right to hurt them that much, viz., she suddenly became unholy! Hence, she was judged with them. And just how many other “Christians" are like Mrs. Disobedient Unholy Lot? Lots right? (Hence, we may get the great falling away of 2 Thessalonians 2:3.)

13 - If you have the holiness coat on.

14 - Much to M. Luther and everyone else's dismay!

15 - There is a possible exception here but it's very expensive. Maybe I’ll tell you about it next year.

16 - As per James 2:20. And please take note of his example of saving faith in action in verse 21.

17 - Although you might be convinced, somewhat akin to the Laodicean delusion of Revelation 3:17, that you do have peace with GOD. Of the seven Churches, I believe that this is the one that has the most members.

18 - Which event He may bring to pass in just a few short years, so don't go too slow on it.

19 - Matthew 7:21, 22:11 - Not every one that saith unto Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that doeth the will of My Father… / … and the wedding was furnished with guests. And when the king came in to see the guests, He saw there a man who had not on a wedding garment. … and (He said, "You!") cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

How are you going to do when he starts weeping “in repentance”? Are you still going to do the will of the Father who wants you to throw him out?

20 - And maybe even getting religious about it.

21 - I believe He was alluding to this very situation in Genesis. [22] - But they were no longer naked. They had their fig leaves on! There is a big difference between conversion and adoption. Sometimes they happen at the same time, but usually they take place many years apart (just like there is a big difference between getting out of Egypt and getting into the Promised Land, or between falling in love and getting married, i.e., being adopted into your partner's family).

23 - Otherwise known as the faith and works dilemma. Saving faith brings forth certain works, or repentance to a certain degree, viz., you will stop doing most of your sins, but you will not stop completely, viz., become perfect. Some of these sins are listed in the NT, to wit: fornication, stealing, lying, et cetera (see 1 Corinthians 5:11, 6:9; Galatians 5:19; Ephesians 5:3; Colossians 3:5 and Revelation 21:8).

Well, in addition to all such evils, I hope that you can now see that you can not have saving faith and still be unholy, as per James 4:4 - know ye not that the friendship of the world (any member, even if it is your infant child, Matthew 10:37) is enmity with GOD. In other words, the angels will get you out of Sodom, but you can not disobey, viz., look back, even if your family and friends are back there screaming, wailing, howling, and being roasted alive in GOD’s judgement.

24 - This very same example is reiterated in both Testaments too. In the OT, we have blood of the Passover (Paschal) Lamb, as well as its body, with the bitter herbs and holiness, viz., the willingness to leave Egypt immediately, and one was not covered by the blood unless one was willing to fulfil these other requirements as well.

In the NT, we have the broken Loaf and the Wine, and the blood does not cover one unless one is also willing to partake of it and of the Loaf. And I believe that it is correct to say that one must be willing to eat and drink all of it, that there can not be any of it left over (out) because that is sin. (It seems to me that if one is going to believe in the transubstantiation of the bread and wine, one must also believe the same about the flesh of the paschal lamb and the sin offering.)

God bless you sir,

Ted