Food for Thought

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Mar 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye

Have we (the church) allowed doctrine to make the word of God of none effect? With a couple thousand denominations all believing they have it right, wouldn’t it be in our best interest to seek out the truth of God’s Holy Word? What many people in today’s churches don’t realize is that the doctrines that they believe are traditional eschatological doctrine are in most case only 100 – 500 years old. So it would be in our best interest to research the roots of the doctrines we hold. Most churches (not all) are in agreement when it comes to the core doctrines, and issues of salvation, the number of interpretations of figurative language of the dreams and visions of prophecy are countless. Virtually all established in the absence of sound hermeneutic principles.

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

The 19th century brought us:
Mary Eddy Baker - Christian Science
Joseph Smith - LDS Mormon
Charles Taze Russel – Jehovas witness
William Miller – Millerites
Edward Irving – irvingites
John Nelson Darby – dispensationalism futurism
Dr John Thomas – Christadelphians
George W. F. Hegel – Idealism
Madame Blavatsky – Theosophical society
Wescott and Hort – wrote corrupt 19th century minority Greek texts that is the basis of most modern bible versions.
United and Oneness Pentecostal Church – linked to several individuals
Pope Pious IX – 1854 dogma of immaculate conception

And the list goes on and on….. and it is most certainly not limited to the 19th century consider:
Constantine – 3rd-4th century - Roman church
Ribera – 16th century -futurists doctrine creator and seed for Darby’ doctrine
Alcazar – 17th century – preterist doctrine Preterism
Jean de Labadie - 17th century – millennial reign
Manuel De Lacunza – 17th century – middle man between Ribera and Darby


Job 8:8 For enquire, I pray thee, of the former age, and prepare thyself to the search of their fathers:

When I researched the views held by many of the former age I discovered that many believed prophecy unfolded over hundreds of years not just the last seven. Even most Christians and Jews look at the Old Testament prophecies that way. For example most recognize that Daniel’s beast/kingdoms were kingdoms that came to pass over hundreds of years.

Many scholars of the former ages believed that prophecy would unfold over hundreds of years, not just all in the first century or all in just the last seven years. Many Christians don’t hesitate to use a day as a year understanding for Daniel’s first 69 weeks. But then don’t hesitate to toss a proven method out the window when it comes to dealing with other days, months and year prophecies, especially when this line of thinking does not fit their doctrine. The application of sound principles of hermeneutics requires a consistent approach, rather then picking and choosing to match our doctrinal view.

Thieleman van Braght (the author of Martyr’s Mirror) wrote in pages 21-24; “a thousand two hundred and threescore days, which reckoned according to prophetic language means as many years…… let it be reckoned as it may, say we, as a very long period of time.”

Years later Matthew Henry came to the same conclusion, he wrote in his Commentary of the Whole Bible (Volume VI page 1157 column 1 paragraph 2) “if the beginning of that interval could be ascertained, this number of prophetic days, taking a day for a year, would give us a prospect of when the end might be.”

The Jamison, Faucett and Brown commentary “in the wilderness ’a thousand two hundred and threescore days. ‘In the wider sense we may either adopt the year-day theory of 1260 years…..”

Many other scholars also believed this way. A few examples:
Augustine (AD 430)
Nahawndi (Jewish) (AD 8-9th century)
Jehoram (AD 10th century)
Abraham bar Hiyya (Jewish) (AD1136)
Arnold of Villanova (AD1292)
Tichonius (AD 380)
Joachim of Floris (AD 1202)
John Wycliff (AD c.1379)
Nicolas of Cusa (AD c. 1452)
Martin Luther (AD 1522)
Phillip Melanchton (AD 1543)
Johan Funck (AD 1558)
James 1 of England (AD 1600)
Sir Isaac Newton (AD 1727)


While those of the former age may have understood how to interpret prophecy maybe they were not in aposition to do so.
Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
Dan 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel; for the words are shut up and sealed till the time of the end.

There are 2 main schools of thought when it comes to Biblical eschatology. On one hand you have the futurists (with it's pre, mid and most tribvariations) who believe most prophecy about the second coming occurs in the last 7 years. On the other hand you have partial preterism, which believes that most, if not all prophecy was fulfilled in the first century.

A most interesting observation in regard to the two most popular eschatologies in the 20th-21st century church - futurism and partial-preterism - is that these doctrines eliminate the possibility that Mohammed could be THE false prophet mentioned in the book of Revelation! This in spite of Mohammed's 1400 year record of success, with approximately 1/4 of mankind following Mohammed’s antichrist religion in today’s world (and how many billion since it’s inception). It shouldn't come as a surprise then, that those who follow these two eschatologies must each consider the other to be virtually 100% wrong in regard to their understanding of the book of Revelation (after chapter 3) because a 1900 year gulf divides the two views. Could both views be wrong?

If by chance we are truly in “the time of the end’ and some from the former age are correct in their beliefs about interpreting prophecy, then maybe we are looking through the wrong end of the telescope. Many of the Jews thought they understood prophecy, but when Christ stood in front of them many did not recognize Him? Why? In some cases the spirit of slumber, but that only explains some. I suspect, preconceived notions, may have blinded many of the others.

"The folly of interpreters has been to foretell times and things by this prophecy [Revelation], as if God designed to make them prophets. By this rashness they have not only exposed themselves, but brought the prophecy also into contempt. The design of God was much otherwise. He gave this and the prophecies of the Old Testament, not to gratify men's curiosities by enabling them to foreknow things, but that after they were fulfilled they might be interpreted by the event, and his own providence, not the interpreters', be then manifested thereby to the world. For the event of things predicted many ages before will then be a convincing argument that the world is governed by Providence." - Sir Isaac Newton

“Those things of God which are now dark and obscure will hereafter be made clear, and easy to be understood. Truth is the daughter of time. Scripture prophecies will be expounded by the accomplishment of them; therefore they are given, and for that expectation they are reserved. Therefore they are told us before, that, when they do come to pass, we may believe”. - Matthew Henry

If we truly fear making the word of God of none effect then maybe it s time to set aside our doctrinal glasses and reexamine the word of God from the other end of the telescope to see if maybe we have been so blinded by our doctrinal glasses that we missed the fulfillment of scripture that has unfolded right in front of us.
 

shilohsfoal

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Dec 26, 2010
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I guess I was lucky enough to not have ben raised in any church and never recieved such doctrins.
There came a time in my life in 1998 that I started seeking God .I started reading the bible and found myself following the word and not long afterward I recieved the Holy Sprit.The written Gospel was enough without any mans guidance.Though I desired to be part of a church I found none that taught what the word itself was teaching me and I desired to learn so much attending a church only slowed my studies.Many people on the net told me I should have a man teach me but I desired to learn from the spirit I had received and I believed what John wrote about the annointing teaching me.Now my understanding is nothing like what others believe and often Im misunderstood .Very seldom do I find anyone who believes what I do.Still I love what Ive learned and love that the Holy spirit reveals things to me.To me its all in who you place your faith.Who you want and desire to be taught by.

1 John 2;27
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
 

veteran

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Aug 6, 2010
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....

If we truly fear making the word of God of none effect then maybe it s time to set aside our doctrinal glasses and reexamine the word of God from the other end of the telescope to see if maybe we have been so blinded by our doctrinal glasses that we missed the fulfillment of scripture that has unfolded right in front of us.

Excellent post Ridgerunner.

God's Word isn't called The Living Word for nothing. With each new generation more of His Word is laid bare for us. I'm certain a lot of those past would not have had the same set of views if they were living today.
 

freeindeed

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Feb 21, 2012
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Hi, This topic really intrigues me and because I have not studied many differing doctrines I do not always understand the discussions, however I am going to add my two cents worth in order to see if others hold a similar belief or if through scripture I may have a fuller understanding as I hope I am teachable. I notice my husband and other christian men when they get together love to discuss doctrinal issues and wonder if this is a male thing and possibly why women were not able to speak in the congregation and instead ask their husbands in private what was being discussed in the church in the old testament. Again another observation I have is that when women gather their conversation is often around the wonderful things God has been doing in their lives. Possibly this too is why God often used women throughout his word to take the good news to others ie the woman at the well. Is it because of the tendency of woman to prefer to see the positive that God allows them to be prophets too because in fact prophecy is for building the body. Finally through my christian walk I have started believing a lot of the prophecy in the word is a description and warning of signs to watch for rather than a timetable of when certain events will occur as God loves to talk in parables.
 

veteran

New Member
Aug 6, 2010
6,509
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Southeast USA
Hi, This topic really intrigues me and because I have not studied many differing doctrines I do not always understand the discussions, however I am going to add my two cents worth in order to see if others hold a similar belief or if through scripture I may have a fuller understanding as I hope I am teachable. I notice my husband and other christian men when they get together love to discuss doctrinal issues and wonder if this is a male thing and possibly why women were not able to speak in the congregation and instead ask their husbands in private what was being discussed in the church in the old testament.

It was a commission mainly given to males back in the Old Testament, as also with the New Covenant concerning elders, bishops, etc. But women were not excluded in understanding.

Luke 10:38-42
38 Now it came to pass, as they went, that he entered into a certain village: and a certain woman named Martha received Him into her house.
39 And she had a sister called Mary, which also sat at Jesus' feet, and heard His word.
40 But Martha was cumbered about much serving, and came to Him, and said, "Lord, dost Thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone? bid her therefore that she help me."
41 And Jesus answered and said unto her, "Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things:
42 But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her."
(KJV)

Martha's sister Mary obviously had been given the 'urge' to understand about The Gospel and His Kingdom. We see that much more with the New Covenant than in Old Covenant times. Yet even back in Old Testament times, there were some women called in the role of prophetess (Miriam, Deborah, Huldah, Noahdiah, and Anna of Luke 2).


Again another observation I have is that when women gather their conversation is often around the wonderful things God has been doing in their lives. Possibly this too is why God often used women throughout his word to take the good news to others ie the woman at the well. Is it because of the tendency of woman to prefer to see the positive that God allows them to be prophets too because in fact prophecy is for building the body. Finally through my christian walk I have started believing a lot of the prophecy in the word is a description and warning of signs to watch for rather than a timetable of when certain events will occur as God loves to talk in parables.

The prophetess in Old Testament times didn't always give out positive revelations from God, but spoke as moved by God through The Holy Spirit what He gave to speak. Got to take the good with the bad, like John was shown in Revelation 10. God wants people to know about His judgments and vengeance upon the wicked in hope that the wicked will repent and come to Him through His Son. That's also how He reveals His Righteousness verses the children of darkness. I know many women that understand about both sides per Scripture, and they are very able in coversation about it. You'll find some of them here on this Forum, even among the administrators.
 

Believerway

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Mar 6, 2012
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Ridgerunner this is a great post. And I believe you are correct that it would do every believer good to research the principals of the doctrine they hold. As in times past I have always wondered why what I was being taught was not in harmony with the Word of God. Seems that many of these doctrines are based on the precepts of men and not on the Word of God. Excellent food for thought.

Thanks brother,
In Christ, Believerway