My studies -Daniel 11

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shilohsfoal

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This chapter contains events in the promised land (the middle east)from the time the kingdom was devided till the time it is inherited by the saints.
Aprox 70 year time frame.Reign of the king of Babylon.apr.1948-2018
.
Daniel 11;1-4
Also I in the first year of Darius the Mede,even I ,stood to confirm and to strengthen him.
And now will I show thee the truth.Behold,there shall stand up yet three kings in Persia;and the fourth shall be far richer than they all;and by his streignth through his riches he shall stir up all against the realm of Grecia.
And a mighty king shall stand up that shall rule with great dominion,and do according to his will.
And when he shall stand up,his kingdom shall be broken,and shall be devided toward the four winds of heaven;and not to his posterity,nor according to his dominion which he ruled;for his kingdom shall be plucked up,even for others beside those.
Daniel 11;5-6
And the king of the south shall be strong,and one of his princes;and he shall be strong above him,and have dominion;his dominion shall be a great dominion.
And in the end of years they shall join themselves together;for the kings daughter of the south shall come to the king of the north to make an agreement;but she shall not retain the power of the arm;neither shall he stand,nor his arm;but she shall be given up,and they that brought her,and he that begat her,and he that streignthend her in these times.
Perhaps Palestine ?
In early 1947 the British announced their intention to abandon the Mandate, and turn the question of the future of Palestine over to the UN. The General Assembly decided to set up the United Nations Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP) to investigate the cause of the conflict in Palestine, and, if possible, devise a solution.
UNSCOP, composed of representatives of 11 nations, visited Palestine and heard testimony from Zionists in Palestine and in the US. The Arabs in Palestine greeted the UNSCOP with hostility and refused to cooperate. The Arab Higher Committee boycotted the Commission but demanded that the UN immediately grant Palestine its independence.
All eleven members of UNSCOP agreed on termination of the mandate, a foregone conclusion given the position of Great Britain. Seven members endorsed a partition plan favored by the Zionists, while three members endorsed a federal state similar to the Grady Morrison plan that had been rejected by both Jews and Arabs. No members endorsed the unitary Arab state recommended by the Arab Higher Committee.
In a speech delivered on 25 March 1948, US President Truman recommended a temporary trusteeship and stated: We could not undertake to impose this solution on the people of Palestine by the use of American troops, both on Charter grounds and as a matter of national policy.[136]
First phase: 14 May 1948–11 June 1948
The British Mandate over Palestine was due to expire on 15 May, but Jewish Leadership led by Ben-Gurion declared independence on 14 May. The State of Israel declared itself as an independent nation, and was quickly recognized by the United States, Iran, the Soviet Union, and many other countries.
Over the next few days, approximately 1,000 Lebanese, 5,000 Syrian, 5,000 Iraqi, and 10,000 Egyptian troops invaded the newly-established state. Four thousand Jordanian troops invaded the Corpus separatum region encompassing Jerusalem and its environs, as well as areas designated as part of the Arab state by the UN partition plan. They were aided by corps of volunteers from Saudi Arabia, Libya and Yemen.
 
 
Daniel11;7-8
But out of her roots shall one (Imad Fayez Mughiyah -Hezbollah)stand up in his estate,which shall come with an army,and shall enter into the fortress (US embassy and barracks ,Beirut 1983)of the king of the north,and shall deal against them,and shall prevail;
And shall also carry captives into Egypt
(TWA flight 847-1985)thier gods,with thier prnces,and with thier precious vessels of silver and gold;and he shall continue more years than the king of the north.

Imad Fayez Mughniyah died feb 12,2008
Ronald Reagon died june 5,2004

June 1985
TWA Flight 847 from Athens is hijacked by terrorists. The pilot is forced to fly to Beirut, where hijackers beat and kill a Navy diver. The plane is flown to Algiers, then back to Beirut again. Most passengers are released; 39 are held captive in Lebanon. Reagan vows that the U.S. will never give in to terrorists' demands. The remaining hostages are freed after 17 days.
 
Dan 11;9
So the king of the south shall come into his kingdom,and shall return into his own land.
Dan11;10-12
But his sons shall be stirred up,and shall assemble a mutitude of great forces;and one shall certainly come,and overflow,and pass through;then shall he return,and be stirred up,even to his fortress.
(1991 Gulf war)
And the king of the south shall be moved with choler,and shall come forth and fight with him,even with the king of the north;and he shall set forth a great mutitude;but the mutitude shall be given into his hand.
And when he had taken away the mutitude,his heart shall be lifted up;and he shall cast down many ten thousands;but he shall not be strengthened by it.
(During the first war with Iraq,Sadam had the 3rd largest army in the world.Certainly a great mutitude.But they were given into the hand of the US.After the US army (its mutitude)was withdrawn from Iraq ,Sadam cast down many ten thousands.The kurds to the north and shias to the south.Even though the US imposed no fly zones to help the uprising ,Sadam defeated all that rose against him.)
Dan 11;13-17
(2003 Gulf war)
For the king of the north shall return,and set forth a mutitude greater than the former,and shall certainly come after certain years with a great army and with much riches. And in those times there shall many stand up against the king of the south;also the robbers of thy people shall exalt themselves to establish the vosion;but they shall fall. So the king of the north shall come,and cast up a mount,and take the most fenced cities;and the arms of the south shall not withstandlneither his chosen people,neither shall there be any strength to withstand But he that cometh against him shall do according to his own will,and none shall stand before him;and he shall stand in the glorious land,which by his hand shall be consumed. He shallalso set his face to enter with the strength of his whole kingdom,and upright ones with him;thus shall he do;and he shall give him the daughter of women ,corrupting her;but she shall not stand on his side,neither be for him.
The US returned with an army greater than before and took the most fenced cities.Not even Sadam's chosen elect (elite republican guard) could withstand.
Daniel 11;18
After this shall he turn his face unto the isles,and shall take many;but a prince for his own behalf shall cause the reproach offerd by him to cease;without his own reproach he shall cause it to turn upon him.
Bush took prisoners to Cuba and has since been forced to give the detainees their day in court.
Daniel 11;19-20
Then shall he turn his face toward the fort of his own land;but stumble and fall,and not be found. Then shall stand up in his estate a raiser of taxes in the glory of the kingdom;but within few days he shall be destroyed,neither in anger,nor in battle.
Bush then conceded his estate(the White house)to Obama who is a raiser of taxes.After a few years Obama would be defeated but not in battle.
Daniel 11;21
And in his estate shall stand up a vile person,to whom they shall not give the honor of the kingdom;but he shall come in peaceably,and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.



 
 
 
 
 

veteran

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The Daniel 11 Scripture is a pattern. And its final fulfillment is by a final antichrist false messiah coming to work great signs and wonders on the earth which no flesh man can do.

And we certainly have not seen any man yet to come to sit in a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem as king in place of Christ, which is exactly what the final antichrist is to do (2 Thess.2).
 

Retrobyter

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Shalom, Shilohsfoal.

Your studies have obviously been void of human history. You even have a NAME that gets you started, and it should have steered you in the right direction at the start.

"Darius the Mede," or Daryavesh (Darius) II, who reigned from 423 to 404 B.C., was the king under whom Dani'el wrote chapter 11.
The three kings who followed him were Artachshashta (Artaxerxes) II (404-358 B.C.), Artachshashta (Artaxerxes) III (358-338 B.C.), and Artachshashta (Artaxerxes) IV (338-336 B.C.). As one can see, there would be little use in naming them, since they all took the same name (title) in their public life as "king of kings." (They didn't refer to themselves or others before them with the Roman numerals "II, III, or IV.")
The fourth king who stirred up trouble against Greece (Macedonia) was Daryavesh (Darius) III (336-330 B.C.).
Alexander III of Macedonia, commonly referred to as "Alexander the Great" (336-323 B.C.), began his assault on Persia in 334 B.C.
When Alexander the Great died after his short reign, his son wasn't even born yet, and for all they knew at the time, it only had 50% chance of being a son! So, after 40 years of strife, the kingdom of Alexander ended up being divided among his four generals: Ptolemy took control of Egypt, Seleucus took control of Syria and Persia, Attalus took control of Pergamos, and Antipater (after the deaths of the co-regents Philip III, Alexander's half-brother, and Alexander IV, Alexander's son) took control of Macedonia.
That's the history for the first four verses!

Verses 5 through 20 talk about various rulers of the Seleucid Empire and the Ptolemaic Empire and their wars that happened on Isra'eli Land.
Verses 21 through 32a talk about Antiochus IV Epiphanes who reigned over the Seleucid Empire from 175 to 164 B.C. It was during HIS time that the "abomination of desolation" was set up in the Temple, the House of God, in Isra'el. This happened in 167 B.C., three and a half years before his death.
Verses 32b through 35 talk about the revolt under Judas Maccabees and the Hasmonean family of Judea.
Verses 36 through 39 speak of Herod the Great.
Verses 40 through 43 speak of Caesar Augustus.
And, verses 44 through 45 go back to Herod the Great.
(Herod the Great was set up as king again over Isra'el by Caesar Augustus.)

So, chapter 11 of Dani'el's book was ALREADY FULFILLED! ONE MUST LEARN FROM HISTORY, TOO!
 

shilohsfoal

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Shalom, Shilohsfoal.

Your studies have obviously been void of human history. You even have a NAME that gets you started, and it should have steered you in the right direction at the start.

"Darius the Mede," or Daryavesh (Darius) II, who reigned from 423 to 404 B.C., was the king under whom Dani'el wrote chapter 11.
The three kings who followed him were Artachshashta (Artaxerxes) II (404-358 B.C.), Artachshashta (Artaxerxes) III (358-338 B.C.), and Artachshashta (Artaxerxes) IV (338-336 B.C.). As one can see, there would be little use in naming them, since they all took the same name (title) in their public life as "king of kings." (They didn't refer to themselves or others before them with the Roman numerals "II, III, or IV.")
The fourth king who stirred up trouble against Greece (Macedonia) was Daryavesh (Darius) III (336-330 B.C.).
Alexander III of Macedonia, commonly referred to as "Alexander the Great" (336-323 B.C.), began his assault on Persia in 334 B.C.
When Alexander the Great died after his short reign, his son wasn't even born yet, and for all they knew at the time, it only had 50% chance of being a son! So, after 40 years of strife, the kingdom of Alexander ended up being divided among his four generals: Ptolemy took control of Egypt, Seleucus took control of Syria and Persia, Attalus took control of Pergamos, and Antipater (after the deaths of the co-regents Philip III, Alexander's half-brother, and Alexander IV, Alexander's son) took control of Macedonia.
That's the history for the first four verses!

Verses 5 through 20 talk about various rulers of the Seleucid Empire and the Ptolemaic Empire and their wars that happened on Isra'eli Land.
Verses 21 through 32a talk about Antiochus IV Epiphanes who reigned over the Seleucid Empire from 175 to 164 B.C. It was during HIS time that the "abomination of desolation" was set up in the Temple, the House of God, in Isra'el. This happened in 167 B.C., three and a half years before his death.
Verses 32b through 35 talk about the revolt under Judas Maccabees and the Hasmonean family of Judea.
Verses 36 through 39 speak of Herod the Great.
Verses 40 through 43 speak of Caesar Augustus.
And, verses 44 through 45 go back to Herod the Great.
(Herod the Great was set up as king again over Isra'el by Caesar Augustus.)

So, chapter 11 of Dani'el's book was ALREADY FULFILLED! ONE MUST LEARN FROM HISTORY, TOO!

I see that you too donmt believe the testimony of Jesus.
Jesus said the abomination of desolation will take place just before his coming and you say the abomination of desolation was placed hundreds of years before Jesus even spoke of it .

Mark13;14
But when you shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that reads understand,) then let them that be in Judea flee to the mountains



You would rather believe the false interpretation of a common man over the words of Jesus Christ and you think I have a problem.Your interpretation is wrong.The abomination of desolatio has never been set up.You dont even know what it is even though it is described in the book of revelation.

The Daniel 11 Scripture is a pattern. And its final fulfillment is by a final antichrist false messiah coming to work great signs and wonders on the earth which no flesh man can do.

And we certainly have not seen any man yet to come to sit in a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem as king in place of Christ, which is exactly what the final antichrist is to do (2 Thess.2).

There are many men who can perfoirm those signs.
I myself an witness to man making fire come down out of heaven ij the sight of man.

But if you pay attention you wouild see its not a man who places the abomination of desolation .It is an army.
It is also that army that makes fire come down out of heaven in the sight of man.
Happens all the time veteran.You should know these things seeing you are a veteran.

Also i would like to remind you that God does not dwell in temples made with hands so if you are claiming God's temple is a temple made with hands then you are wrong.
 

Retrobyter

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Shabbat shalom, shilohsfoal.

(Allow me to clean this up a little just to make matters clear...)
I see that you, too, don't believe the testimony of Jesus.
Jesus said the abomination of desolation will take place just before His coming, and you say the abomination of desolation was placed hundreds of years before Jesus even spoke of it.

Mark 13:14
But when you shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that reads understand,) then let them that be in Judea flee to the mountains:

You would rather believe the false interpretation of a common man over the words of Jesus Christ, and you think I have a problem. Your interpretation is wrong. The abomination of desolation has never been set up.You don't even know what it is even though it is described in the book of Revelation.

Actually, brother, Yeshua` (Jesus) did NOT say that "the abomination of desolation will take place just before His coming." That's YOUR interpretation of what He said! One MUST be careful and precise when quoting our Master, or he or she will end up putting words in the Master's mouth, a very dangerous thing to do!

Here's what Yeshua` said:

Matthew 24:9-31
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV


Mark 13:9-27
9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.
10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
12 Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.
13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
15 And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:
16 And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.
17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.
19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:
22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
KJV


And to flesh it out, here is Luke's version of the same portion:


Luke 21:12-28
12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
19 In your patience possess ye your souls.
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
KJV


Consequently, I don't have a bit of problem with what Yeshua` said, but I have a BIG DISPUTE with anyone who has a single-verse mentality! One MUST use the WHOLE context of a passage if he or she is going to get anything right!

Also, one should note that Luke mentions the end of the times of the Gentiles in verse 24 and the signs in the sun, moon, and stars in verse 25 both happening AFTER the "abomination of desolation" and BEFORE the Messiah's Return!

Now, one should pay close attention to the second-person, plural words "ye," "you" and "your." When Yeshua` says words so translated, He was speaking DIRECTLY to His disciples sitting on Har HaZeitiym (the Mount of Olives) at the time of this discourse. When he let's the pronouns be more nebulous in the third-person, plural as "they" or "them," He is usually viewing the future as afar off.

The abomination of desolation to which Yeshua` referred was that of Dani'el 9:24-27, not Dani'el 11:31 or 12:11! Dani'el 11:31 and 12:11 were references to Antiochus IV Epiphanes, but Dani'el 9:27 had never been fulfilled until the first century.
 

shilohsfoal

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Daniel 11 still has not been forfilled nor was the abomnatioof deslation ever set up.
The abomination of desolation is the mark of the beast that shall be given to all who dwell in Judea.
And those jews who do not take that mark shall be killed just as the book ofDaniel states.
You just try to understand prophecy without revelation and you fail because of it.
You would rather believe the interpretations of men without the Holy Spirit insted of turning to God for guidance.

Like I said .It hasnt happened.
3 1/2 years after the abomination of desolation is given then the time of the end of the gentiles shall be.
The gentiles still are in control of the promised land and shall stay in control till they are destroyed.
 

Retrobyter

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Shalom, shilohsfoal.

(Again, just a little clean-up is necessary...)
Daniel 11 still has not been fulfilled nor was the abomination of desolation ever set up.
The abomination of desolation is the mark of the beast that shall be given to all who dwell in Judea.
And those jews who do not take that mark shall be killed just as the book of Daniel states.
You just try to understand prophecy without revelation and you fail because of it.
You would rather believe the interpretations of men without the Holy Spirit instead of turning to God for guidance.

Like I said. It hasn't happened.
3 1/2 years after the abomination of desolation is given then the time of the end of the gentiles shall be.
The gentiles still are in control of the promised land and shall stay in control till they are destroyed.

You said, "Daniel 11 still has not been fulfilled nor was the abomination of desolation ever set up." Only in your mind, brother, only in your mind. History teaches us otherwise. Also, you might want to consider the testimonies of those who were there and those who were historically closer to the event than you are:

ANTIOCHUS
3. Antiochus IV (175 B.C. - 164 B.C.), surnamed Epiphanes (God manifest) but called by his enemies Epimanes (madman). Antiochus IV was one of the cruelest rulers of all time. Like his father, Antiochus III the Great, he was enterprising and ambitious; however, he had a tendency to cruelty that bordered on madness. His primary aim-to unify his empire by spreading Greek civilization and culture-brought him into direct conflict with the Jews. This conflict broke into open rebellion in 167 B.C. Accounts of these conflicts are found in the apocryphal book of 2 Maccabees.
The revolt began with Antiochus' edict that sought to unite all the peoples of his kingdom in religion, law, and custom. The Jews were the only people who would not adhere to this edict. Antiochus issued regulations against observing the Sabbath, practicing circumcision, and keeping all food laws. These regulations were followed by the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION (Dan 11:31) - the erection of the altar of the Greek god Zeus over the altar of the burnt offering in the Temple. Jews were forced to participate in heathen festivities and were put to death if they were caught with the Book of the Law in their possession.
(from Nelson's Illustrated Bible Dictionary, Copyright © 1986, Thomas Nelson Publishers)


§35 [12.35]
4. Now it came to pass, after two years, in the hundred forty and fifth year, on the twenty-fifth day of that month which is by us called Chasleu, and by the Macedonians Apelleus, in the hundred and fifty-third olympiad, that the king came up to Jerusalem, and, pretending peace, he got possession of the city by treachery; at which time he spared not so much as those that admitted him into it, on account of the riches that lay in the temple; but, led by his covetous inclination, (for he saw there was in it a great deal of gold, and many ornaments that had been dedicated to it of very great value,) and in order to plunder its wealth, he ventured to break the league he had made. So he left the temple bare, and took away the golden candlesticks, and the golden altar [of incense], and table [of shew-bread], and the altar [of burnt-offering]; and did not abstain from even the veils, which were made of fine linen and scarlet. He also emptied it of its secret treasures, and left nothing at all remaining; and by this means cast the Jews into great lamentation, for he forbade them to offer those daily sacrifices which they used to offer to God, according to the law. And when he had pillaged the whole city, some of the inhabitants he slew, and some he carried captive, together with their wives and children, so that the multitude of those captives that were taken alive amounted to about ten thousand. He also burnt down the finest buildings; and when he had overthrown the city walls, he built a citadel in the lower part of the city, for the place was high, and overlooked the temple; on which account he fortified it with high walls and towers, and put into it a garrison of Macedonians. However, in that citadel dwelt the impious and wicked part of the [Jewish] multitude, from whom it proved that the citizens suffered many and sore calamities. And when the king had built an idol altar upon God's altar, he slew swine upon it, and so offered a sacrifice neither according to the law, nor the Jewish religious worship in that country. He also compelled them to forsake the worship which they paid their own God, and to adore those whom he took to be gods; and made them build temples, and raise idol altars in every city and village, and offer swine upon them every day. He also commanded them not to circumcise their sons, and threatened to punish any that should be found to have transgressed his injunction. He also appointed overseers, who should compel them to do what he commanded. And indeed many Jews there were who complied with the king's commands, either voluntarily, or out of fear of the penalty that was denounced. But the best men, and those of the noblest souls, did not regard him, but did pay a greater respect to the customs of their country than concern as to the punishment which he threatened to the disobedient; on which account they every day underwent great miseries and bitter torments; for they were whipped with rods, and their bodies were torn to pieces, and were crucified, while they were still alive, and breathed. They also strangled those women and their sons whom they had circumcised, as the king had appointed, hanging their sons about their necks as they were upon the crosses. And if there were any sacred book of the law found, it was destroyed, and those with whom they were found miserably perished also.
(from Josephus: Antiquities of the Jews, PC Study Bible formatted electronic database Copyright © 2003, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)


1 Macc. 1:1-56
1 And it happened, after that Alexander son of Philip, the Macedonian, who came out of the land of Chettiim, had smitten Darius king of the Persians and Medes, that he reigned in his stead, the first over Greece,
2 And made many wars, and won many strong holds, and slew the kings of the earth,
3 And went through to the ends of the earth, and took spoils of many nations, insomuch that the earth was quiet before him; whereupon he was exalted and his heart was lifted up.
4 And he gathered a mighty strong host and ruled over countries, and nations, and kings, who became tributaries unto him.
5 And after these things he fell sick, and perceived that he should die.
6 Wherefore he called his servants, such as were honourable, and had been brought up with him from his youth, and parted his kingdom among them, while he was yet alive.
7 So Alexander reigned twelves years, and then died.
8 And his servants bare rule every one in his place.
9 And after his death they all put crowns upon themselves; so did their sons after them many years: and evils were multiplied in the earth.
10 And there came out of them a wicked root Antiochus surnamed Epiphanes, son of Antiochus the king, who had been an hostage at Rome, and he reigned in the hundred and thirty and seventh year of the kingdom of the Greeks.
11 In those days went there out of Israel wicked men, who persuaded many, saying, Let us go and make a covenant with the heathen that are round about us: for since we departed from them we have had much sorrow.
12 So this device pleased them well.
13 Then certain of the people were so forward herein, that they went to the king, who gave them licence to do after the ordinances of the heathen:
14 Whereupon they built a place of exercise at Jerusalem according to the customs of the heathen:
15 And made themselves uncircumcised, and forsook the holy covenant, and joined themselves to the heathen, and were sold to do mischief.
16 Now when the kingdom was established before Antiochus, he thought to reign over Egypt that he might have the dominion of two realms.
17 Wherefore he entered into Egypt with a great multitude, with chariots, and elephants, and horsemen, and a great navy,
18 And made war against Ptolemee king of Egypt: but Ptolemee was afraid of him, and fled; and many were wounded to death.
19 Thus they got the strong cities in the land of Egypt and he took the spoils thereof.
20 And after that Antiochus had smitten Egypt, he returned again in the hundred forty and third year, and went up against Israel and Jerusalem with a great multitude,
21 And entered proudly into the sanctuary, and took away the golden altar, and the candlestick of light, and all the vessels thereof,
22 And the table of the shewbread, and the pouring vessels, and the vials, and the censers of gold, and the veil, and the crown, and the golden ornaments that were before the temple, all which he pulled off.
23 He took also the silver and the gold, and the precious vessels: also he took the hidden treasures which he found.
24 And when he had taken all away, he went into his own land, having made a great massacre, and spoken very proudly.
25 Therefore there was a great mourning in Israel, in every place where they were;
26 So that the princes and elders mourned, the virgins and young men were made feeble, and the beauty of women was changed.
27 Every bridegroom took up lamentation, and she that sat in the marriage chamber was in heaviness,
28 The land also was moved for the inhabitants thereof, and all the house of Jacob was covered with confusion.
29 And after two years fully expired the king sent his chief collector of tribute unto the cities of Juda, who came unto Jerusalem with a great multitude,
30 And spake peaceable words unto them, but all was deceit: for when they had given him credence, he fell suddenly upon the city, and smote it very sore, and destroyed much people of Israel.
31 And when he had taken the spoils of the city, he set it on fire, and pulled down the houses and walls thereof on every side.
32 But the women and children took they captive, and possessed the cattle.
33 Then builded they the city of David with a great and strong wall, and with mighty towers, and made it a strong hold for them.
34 And they put therein a sinful nation, wicked men, and fortified themselves therein.
35 They stored it also with armour and victuals, and when they had gathered together the spoils of Jerusalem, they laid them up there, and so they became a sore snare:
36 For it was a place to lie in wait against the sanctuary, and an evil adversary to Israel.
37 Thus they shed innocent blood on every side of the sanctuary, and defiled it:
38 Insomuch that the inhabitants of Jerusalem fled because of them: whereupon the city was made an habitation of strangers, and became strange to those that were born in her; and her own children left her.
39 Her sanctuary was laid waste like a wilderness, her feasts were turned into mourning, her sabbaths into reproach, her honour into contempt.
40 As had been her glory, so was her dishonour increased, and her excellency was turned into mourning.
41 Moreover king Antiochus wrote to his whole kingdom, that all should be one people,
42 And every one should leave his laws: so all the heathen agreed according to the commandment of the king.
43 Yea, many also of the Israelites consented to his religion, and sacrificed unto idols, and profaned the sabbath.
44 For the king had sent letters by messengers unto Jerusalem and the cities of Juda that they should follow the strange laws of the land,
45 And forbid burnt offerings, and sacrifice, and drink offerings, in the temple; and that they should profane the sabbaths and festival days:
46 And pollute the sanctuary and holy people:
47 Set up altars, and groves, and chapels of idols, and sacrifice swine's flesh, and unclean beasts:
48 That they should also leave their children uncircumcised, and make their souls abominable with all manner of uncleanness and profanation:
49 To the end they might forget the law, and change all the ordinances.
50 And whosoever would not do according to the commandment of the king, he said, he should die.
51 In the selfsame manner wrote he to his whole kingdom, and appointed overseers over all the people, commanding the cities of Juda to sacrifice, city by city.
52 Then many of the people were gathered unto them, to wit every one that forsook the law; and so they committed evils in the land;
53 And drove the Israelites into secret places, even wheresoever they could flee for succour.
54 Now the fifteenth day of the month Casleu, in the hundred forty and fifth year, they set up the abomination of desolation upon the altar, and builded idol altars throughout the cities of Juda on every side;
55 And burnt incense at the doors of their houses, and in the streets.
56 And when they had rent in pieces the books of the law which they found, they burnt them with fire.
KJV


Whether you like it or not, Dani'el 11:31 was fulfilled in 167 B.C.
Yeshua` (Jesus) was not talking about Dani'el 11:31; He was talking about Dani'el 9:24-27!

Dan 9:24-27
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
KJV


These abominations that led to Yeshua` making the city and the sanctuary desolate (Matt. 23:38) were the things that Yeshua` bawled them out about in Matthew 23! They rejected Him - the Anointed of God to be King - as their King! So, Yeshua` rejected that generation! And, the desolation that they caused through their rebellion and their rejections led, 40 years later, to the abomination of the destruction of the Temple!

LEARN FROM HISTORY!!!
 
These abominations that led to Yeshua` making the city and the sanctuary desolate (Matt. 23:38) were the things that Yeshua` bawled them out about in Matthew 23! They rejected Him - the Anointed of God to be King - as their King! So, Yeshua` rejected that generation! And, the desolation that they caused through their rebellion and their rejections led, 40 years later, to the abomination of the destruction of the Temple!

LEARN FROM HISTORY!!!

What's so abominable in the destruction of a temple that Christ decalred desolate and the veil was rent 40 years before it was destroyed?

While it is true that Christ declared the temple desolate and it was destroyed approximately 30 years later, I don’t see how this could be the fulfillment of the
abomination of desolation. One could hardly say that Christ’s death or the events of 70AD left Jerusalem desolate. After Christ’s death Jerusalem did continue to thrive with both Jews and Christians living and worshipping there. In addition there was no abomination setup (as Daniel said) or Standing (per the gospels of Mark and Matthew). Christ said “When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be (Mat24:15-21) The worst period of tribulation for Christians and Jews did not follow immediately after Christ’s death or 70AD. (how many Jews were slaughtered in the Holocaust? And to the best of my knowledge Christians were not targeted or killed in 70AD) Nor was either of these times the most desolate period in Jerusalem’s history. While it is true that the events of 70AD were significant and horrific, we must remember that few if any, Christians were killed in that event. In addition we would be hard pressed to say it left Jerusalem desolate when less then 65 years later during Bar Kokhba revolution another 600,000 – 750,000 Jews were slaughtered.

Interestingly Jerusalem was surrounded by armies on many occasions, 70AD, 132, 639, 1099, 1187, 1948, 1967 and some would say even now. As history shows nothing was more spiritually or physically desolating to Jerusalem then the 1100 years of Islamization and the exile of Jews and Christians as a result. By the early 1800’s Jerusalem’s population had dropped to 550 people.

So if the crucifixion or 70AD is the abomination that makes desolate, what exactly is the abomination that was set up or is standing where it ought not? Why is it that the most desolate period in Jerusalem’s history occurred during the 1100 years of Islamization and not during those times?
 

shilohsfoal

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Riderunner

Most people believe the temple of God is a building made by common men.
They cant understand the human body was always ment to be a temple.

So they see when someone might do something to what they concieve to be God's temple which man made for God,they see iot as an abomination.They also try to understand the OT prophets without revelation from God.The revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave to him to show his servants describes the abomionation as a mark which is to be placed within the body(the temple).
That is the abomination that shall be set and The saints in Judea shall understand this.Those saints shall tell others but they shall be killed for the testomony of Jesus.They do not worship the beast nor recieve his mark.

Daniel 11;31-33And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate
And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by plunder, many days.

Revelation 13;8-10And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
If any man have an ear, let him hear.
He that leads into captivity shall go into captivity: he that kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.


This is the same event.
Revelation helps us to understand what others who deny Jesus can not.
Therefore the jews in Judea who believe in Jesus and keep the saying of the prophecy of Revelation have an understanding of the events in Daniel 11 where those in Judea who deny the Son and hath not the father are not given revelation of those same events and likewise cant understand what is happening nor what they are doing. They also do not understand what shall befall them for thier abominations .

Daniel 12;4
But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

You can run to and fro and compare verse to verse.But those who have no revelation have nothing to compare Daniel's words too.The wicked shall not understand.Those in Judea who reject Christ shall not understand the words of Daniel because they reject Christ and his word.
 

veteran

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There are many men who can perfoirm those signs.
I myself an witness to man making fire come down out of heaven ij the sight of man.

No, there has not been any 'man' come yet with the ability to do what the Rev.13, Matt.24:23-26, and 2 Thess.2 Scripture states. It ain't about military helicopters and nukes. It's about a miracle working on the order that our Lord Jesus did, and more. That's the key, because by the level... of miracle working that false one is to do per our Lord, it will deceive the whole world. Obviously, there's never yet been a time on earth when the whole world... was deceived by a man with the ability to work miracles in the sight of men like that (Rev.13:11 forward), and also setup an image to the beast causing all to bow in worship to it.

The nearest example of history for that was the king of Babylon, Nebuchadnezzar, with the golden image that was made requiring all in his kingdom to bow in worship to it at the sound of the psalter (musical instrument). But that pattern in Daniel still did not cover all the earth like the Revelation pattern lays bare.


But if you pay attention you wouild see its not a man who places the abomination of desolation .It is an army.
It is also that army that makes fire come down out of heaven in the sight of man.
Happens all the time veteran.You should know these things seeing you are a veteran.

Read the Dan.9:27 verse again, it's about a certain "he" that causes the daily sacrifice and oblation to cease because of setting up abominations instead. And the arms standing "on his part" per Dan.11:31 is about the "vile person" who's in charge of setting the abomination idol up for false worship. Not only that, but our Lord Jesus and His Apostle Paul gave us updates on that future event in Jerusalem...


II Th 2:2-4
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
(KJV)

Rev 13:11-17
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
(KJV)

So obviously, you're focused on the wrong stuff about that abomination of desolation event, and haven't included the later updates given about that event like the above examples.



Also i would like to remind you that God does not dwell in temples made with hands so if you are claiming God's temple is a temple made with hands then you are wrong.

That's an example of you taking Scripture out of its context, for that idea is an expression to show how God cannot be limited to some material bulding like a flesh built temple or Church building. Fact of the matter per OT Scripture, He DID... recognize the physical temple that David wanted to build, but God allowed his son Solomon to build, and even the second temple which the remnant of the house of Judah built in Jeruslaem after their return from the Babylon captivity.

And since the end-time temple to be built in Jerusalem again involves what Orthodox Jewry believes, and not Christ's Church, its building again and setting up of the abomination of desolation within it by the coming pseudo-messiah is exactly the idea that our Lord was referring to in Matt.24 and Mark 13, quoting from the Book of Daniel.

And here it is again as revealed to John by our Lord Jesus...

Rev 11:1-3
1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
3 And I will give power unto My two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
(KJV)

The time of that temple John is told go measure, with a reed likened... unto a 'rod' (symbolic of punishment), is when God's two witnesses appear on earth at the end on the 6th Trumpet -2nd Woe period, just prior to Christ's return. That 42 months and 1320 days is the "great tribulation" timing our Lord Jesus spoke of.

This is why Orthodox Jews in Jerusalem today already have all the building materials ready to build another temple there, as they plan on starting up the daily sacrifice and oblation of the Levitical priest system again per Old Covenant worship. It's because they do not believe Christ has ever come yet. Even the Sanhedrin was re-established again several years ago. Everything is aligning perfectly according to God's Plan in His Word.
 
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shilohsfoal

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The next president of the United states is Mitt Romney.
According to his church (Mormon)he is high priest in the order of Melchizedek.
According to the bible,he is the false prophet.

And yes Veteran.As commander in chief ,Mitt will command fire come down out of heaven in the sight of man and it shall certainly do so.

Priesthood (Latter Day Saints)


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jump to: navigation, search

In the Latter Day Saint movement, priesthood is considered to be the power and authority of God, including the authority to act as a leader in the church and to perform ordinances, and the power to perform miracles. A body of priesthood holders is referred to as a quorum.
Priesthood denotes elements of both power and authority. The priesthood includes the power Jesus gave his apostles to perform miracles such as the casting out of devils and the healing of sick (Luke 9:1). Latter Day Saints believe that the Biblical miracles performed by prophets and apostles were performed by the power of priesthood, including the miracles of Jesus, who holds all of the keys of the priesthood. The priesthood is formally known as the Priesthood after the Order of the Son of God, but to avoid the too frequent use of the name of the Son of God, the priesthood is referred to as the Melchizedek Priesthood, Melchizedek being the high priest to whom Abraham paid tithes.
As an authority, priesthood is the authority by which a bearer may perform ecclesiastical acts of service in the name of God. Latter Day Saints believe that acts (and in particular, ordinances) performed by one with priesthood authority are recognized by God and are binding in heaven, on earth, and in the afterlife. In addition, Latter Day Saints believe that leadership positions within the church are legitimized by the priesthood authority.
For most of the history of the Latter Day Saint movement, only men have been ordained to specific offices in the Priesthood. The first exception to this policy was within the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Strangite), a minor faction founded by James J. Strang that flourished between 1844 and 1856 (though a diminutive remnant still exists today). In Strang's church, women were—and still are—permitted to hold the offices of Priest and Teacher (but not any other offices) from as early as 1856.[sup][1][/sup] In 1984, the Community of Christ, the second largest denomination of the movement, began ordaining women to all of its priesthood offices. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the largest faction in the movement, still restricts its priesthood to men, as do most of the other Latter Day Saint denominations.
 

Retrobyter

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Shalom, Ridgerunner.

What's so abominable in the destruction of a temple that Christ decalred desolate and the veil was rent 40 years before it was destroyed?

While it is true that Christ declared the temple desolate and it was destroyed approximately 30 years later, I don’t see how this could be the fulfillment of the
abomination of desolation. One could hardly say that Christ’s death or the events of 70AD left Jerusalem desolate. After Christ’s death Jerusalem did continue to thrive with both Jews and Christians living and worshipping there. In addition there was no abomination setup (as Daniel said) or Standing (per the gospels of Mark and Matthew). Christ said “When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be (Mat24:15-21) The worst period of tribulation for Christians and Jews did not follow immediately after Christ’s death or 70AD. (how many Jews were slaughtered in the Holocaust? And to the best of my knowledge Christians were not targeted or killed in 70AD) Nor was either of these times the most desolate period in Jerusalem’s history. While it is true that the events of 70AD were significant and horrific, we must remember that few if any, Christians were killed in that event. In addition we would be hard pressed to say it left Jerusalem desolate when less then 65 years later during Bar Kokhba revolution another 600,000 – 750,000 Jews were slaughtered.

Interestingly Jerusalem was surrounded by armies on many occasions, 70AD, 132, 639, 1099, 1187, 1948, 1967 and some would say even now. As history shows nothing was more spiritually or physically desolating to Jerusalem then the 1100 years of Islamization and the exile of Jews and Christians as a result. By the early 1800’s Jerusalem’s population had dropped to 550 people.

So if the crucifixion or 70AD is the abomination that makes desolate, what exactly is the abomination that was set up or is standing where it ought not? Why is it that the most desolate period in Jerusalem’s history occurred during the 1100 years of Islamization and not during those times?

1 Sam 4:15-22
15 Now Eli was ninety and eight years old; and his eyes were dim, that he could not see.
16 And the man said unto Eli, I am he that came out of the army, and I fled to day out of the army. And he said, What is there done, my son?
17 And the messenger answered and said, Israel is fled before the Philistines, and there hath been also a great slaughter among the people, and thy two sons also, Hophni and Phinehas, are dead, and the ark of God is taken.
18 And it came to pass, when he made mention of the ark of God, that he fell from off the seat backward by the side of the gate, and his neck brake, and he died: for he was an old man, and heavy. And he had judged Israel forty years.
19 And his daughter in law, Phinehas' wife, was with child, near to be delivered: and when she heard the tidings that the ark of God was taken, and that her father in law and her husband were dead, she bowed herself and travailed; for her pains came upon her.
20 And about the time of her death the women that stood by her said unto her, Fear not; for thou hast born a son. But she answered not, neither did she regard it.
21 And she named the child Ichabod (Hebrew: Iy-kaavowd = "no glory"), saying, The glory is departed from Israel: because the ark of God was taken, and because of her father in law and her husband.
22 And she said, The glory is departed from Israel: for the ark of God is taken.
KJV


Oh, I don't know... maybe it was so abominable like it was abominable for the P'lishtiym (the Philistines) to take the Ark of the Covenant during `Eli's day (1 Sam. 4:15-22)? The Temple was the symbol for the presence (sh'kinah) of God, for the Holy of Holies CONTAINED the Ark of God!! When the Temple was destroyed - both times! - it signaled that God had left Isra'el! That's pretty disheartening, wouldn't you think?!

Who said the period ENDED?! Is there a Temple today in Jerusalem? It HASN'T ENDED! All the lives lost that you mentioned are ADDED TO the lives lost in 70 A.D.! They are cumulative because the Time of the Gentiles has not ended, yet! They are still in the time of Ya`aqov's (Jacob's) Trouble, the "thlipsis" or "tribulation!"

You quoted Matthew 24:15-21 yourself above. I added the high-lights to the words "ye" and "your" and the "you-understood," command forms of the verbs used. He was talking directly to HIS STUDENTS WHO WERE RIGHT THERE ON THAT MOUNTAIN WITH HIM! Now, unless you think those students are still alive today, this portion of the prophecy ended with the ends of their lives! Thus, this portion of the prophecy had to be fulfilled before they died in the first century!

Oh, and by the way, the "Christians" as you call them in the first century were primarily believing JEWS!
 

shilohsfoal

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Jesus declared his own body the temple while the Jew's temple was yet standing.

John 2;19
Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

It sure was a good thing there were gentlemen like Retrobyter and Veteran there to set everyone straight.


Mathew 26 ;60-61
But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none. At the last came two false witnesses,
And said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days



Some people just cant understand.
 

veteran

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The next president of the United states is Mitt Romney.
According to his church (Mormon)he is high priest in the order of Melchizedek.
According to the bible,he is the false prophet.

And yes Veteran.As commander in chief ,Mitt will command fire come down out of heaven in the sight of man and it shall certainly do so.

Priesthood (Latter Day Saints)


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jump to: navigation, search

In the Latter Day Saint movement, priesthood is considered to be the power and authority of God, including the authority to act as a leader in the church and to perform ordinances, and the power to perform miracles. A body of priesthood holders is referred to as a quorum.
Priesthood denotes elements of both power and authority. The priesthood includes the power Jesus gave his apostles to perform miracles such as the casting out of devils and the healing of sick (Luke 9:1). Latter Day Saints believe that the Biblical miracles performed by prophets and apostles were performed by the power of priesthood, including the miracles of Jesus, who holds all of the keys of the priesthood. The priesthood is formally known as the Priesthood after the Order of the Son of God, but to avoid the too frequent use of the name of the Son of God, the priesthood is referred to as the Melchizedek Priesthood, Melchizedek being the high priest to whom Abraham paid tithes.
As an authority, priesthood is the authority by which a bearer may perform ecclesiastical acts of service in the name of God. Latter Day Saints believe that acts (and in particular, ordinances) performed by one with priesthood authority are recognized by God and are binding in heaven, on earth, and in the afterlife. In addition, Latter Day Saints believe that leadership positions within the church are legitimized by the priesthood authority.
For most of the history of the Latter Day Saint movement, only men have been ordained to specific offices in the Priesthood. The first exception to this policy was within the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Strangite), a minor faction founded by James J. Strang that flourished between 1844 and 1856 (though a diminutive remnant still exists today). In Strang's church, women were—and still are—permitted to hold the offices of Priest and Teacher (but not any other offices) from as early as 1856.[sup][1][/sup] In 1984, the Community of Christ, the second largest denomination of the movement, began ordaining women to all of its priesthood offices. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the largest faction in the movement, still restricts its priesthood to men, as do most of the other Latter Day Saint denominations.

I don't support Mitt Romney. Don't know where you ever got that idea, most likely from the confusion existing in your mind.

Jesus declared his own body the temple while the Jew's temple was yet standing.

John 2;19
Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

It sure was a good thing there were gentlemen like Retrobyter and Veteran there to set everyone straight.


Mathew 26 ;60-61
But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none. At the last came two false witnesses,
And said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days

Some people just cant understand.


Right, some people... (like yourself)... just do not understand.

Paul was not talking about a 'spiritual' metaphorical temple in the 2 Thess.2 Scripture. Those who say he was are pushing a doctrine of man, and not staying with how the Scripture is written in simplicity.


How can we be sure... that Paul meant a physical literal temple in 2 Thess.2:3-4? It's easy!

ANSWER:
The spiritual metaphorical temple idea applied to our Lord Jesus and His Body of believers CANNOT BE CORRUPTED. If it could be, then none... would have Salvation through Christ Jesus. What Paul declared about the false one coming to sit in the temple of God per 2 Thess.2 is a corrupting... of a temple, false worship, rebellion against The Father and His Son.

And all... those who don't bring forth good fruit in Christ Jesus are cut off... from His spiriutal temple, so those could never be included.

Because you have yet to understand that simple Truth, it shows all the more how you are stuck on the doctrines of false prophets that exist to try God's people.
 

shilohsfoal

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Paul spoke of the temple of God many times.
All of which he was speaking of the body.Not a man made structure .
If you claim the temple of God were a manmade structure then you must not be a part of the temple of God.
 
Paul was not talking about a 'spiritual' metaphorical temple in the 2 Thess.2 Scripture. Those who say he was are pushing a doctrine of man, and not staying with how the Scripture is written in simplicity.


How can we be sure... that Paul meant a physical literal temple in 2 Thess.2:3-4? It's easy!

ANSWER:
The spiritual metaphorical temple idea applied to our Lord Jesus and His Body of believers CANNOT BE CORRUPTED. If it could be, then none... would have Salvation through Christ Jesus. What Paul declared about the false one coming to sit in the temple of God per 2 Thess.2 is a corrupting... of a temple, false worship, rebellion against The Father and His Son.
While I disagree with the vast majority of shilosfoals doctrine, I do believe he is correct when he says the temple of God is the body of believers. Are you saying believers cannot be corrupted?
1Cor15:52-53 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
Are the Scriptures wrong? Are we already incorruptible?
 

Retrobyter

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Shalom, Shilohsfoal.

Well, considering that His body is called the VEIL in the Temple (Heb. 10:20), that's a partial truth.

What good is an analogy if you take away the basic truth upon which the analogy is built? The point Yeshua` was making was that HE was the presence of God, not just a building. That's true. However, to ignore both the prophecies that predict a rebuilt Temple and the teaching of what the Temple represented is to miss a good deal of the truth of God's Word. IF YOU TAKE AWAY THE BASIS FOR THE ANALOGY, YOU TAKE AWAY THE MEANING OF THE ANALOGY!!!

In the words of Alice's Mad Hatter, "Please! Don't let us be silly!"

NOWHERE did Yeshua` claim to take the place of the Temple! HE PURGED THE TEMPLE! He had a ZEAL for the Temple, the House of God!

It's like how the P'rushiym (Pharisees) were looking for the Kingdom's arrival when Yeshua` was standing right there in the middle of them! He wasn't saying that there would be no physical, literal Kingdom; He was saying that He was the EMBODIMENT of the Kingdom because He was supposed to be their KING!

In the same way, Yeshua` was not saying that there would be no physical, literal Temple rebuilt; He was saying that He was the EMBODIMENT of the Temple because He was supposed to be their Great High Priest "forever after the order of Melchiy-Tsedeq!" (Which the author of Hebrews points out means "King of Righteousness!")

Isaiah 62:1-7
1 For Zion's sake will I not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest, until the righteousness thereof go forth as brightness, and the salvation thereof as a lamp that burneth.
2 And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the Lord shall name.
3 Thou shalt also be a crown of glory in the hand of the Lord, and a royal diadem in the hand of thy God.
4 Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzi-bah, and thy land Beulah: for the Lord delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married.
5 For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee.
6 I have set watchmen upon thy walls, O Jerusalem, which shall never hold their peace day nor night: ye that make mention of the Lord, keep not silence,
7 And give him no rest, till he establish, and till he make Jerusalem a praise in the earth.
KJV


Please, pray for the peace of Jerusalem!

Ps 122
122 I was glad when they said unto me, Let us go into the house of the Lord.
2 Our feet shall stand within thy gates, O Jerusalem.
3 Jerusalem is builded as a city that is compact together:
4 Whither the tribes go up, the tribes of the Lord, unto the testimony of Israel, to give thanks unto the name of the Lord.
5 For there are set thrones of judgment, the thrones of the house of David.
6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
7 Peace be within thy walls, and prosperity within thy palaces.
8 For my brethren and companions' sakes, I will now say, Peace be within thee.
9 Because of the house of the Lord our God I will seek thy good.
KJV
 

veteran

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Paul spoke of the temple of God many times.
All of which he was speaking of the body.Not a man made structure .
If you claim the temple of God were a manmade structure then you must not be a part of the temple of God.


While I disagree with the vast majority of shilosfoals doctrine, I do believe he is correct when he says the temple of God is the body of believers. Are you saying believers cannot be corrupted?
1Cor15:52-53 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
Are the Scriptures wrong? Are we already incorruptible?


It's like I said before that both of you are on the same doctrine of men that falsely preaches there is no coming singular antichrist false messiah.


The Spiritual Temple Foundation --

Eph 2:19-22
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
(KJV)

Anyone who thinks that foundation there can be corrupted by anything, or anyone, has much to learn about the Power of The Father, and The Son, and The Holy Spirit. One can only... be joined to that foundation by staying in Christ Jesus The Chief Cornerstone.

You guys just aren't thinking, but instead are letting men's doctrines do the thinking for you! Christ's enemies do not want you to think there's going to be another physical temple built in Jerusalem for the last days, with a false messiah coming to sit in it proclaiming himself to be God, and demanding to be worshipped 'as'... God. Yet that's exactly the subject Apostle Paul was covering in the 2 Thessalonians 2 Scripture.

It was also the specific matter our Lord Jesus was covering when He quoted Daniel about the "abomination of desolation" in Matt.24 and Mark 13. And there's already been a historical pattern for that abomination of desolation idol worship setup in a temple in Jerusalem. It happened in 170 B.C. with the one named Antiochus Epiphanes. He conquered Jerusalem with an army, went into the 2nd temple and sacrificed swine upon the altar, spread its broth around inside the temple, and then setup an idol abomination to Zeus, and commanded all in Judea to bow in false worship to it.
 
It's like I said before that both of you are on the same doctrine of men that falsely preaches there is no coming singular antichrist false messiah.


The Spiritual Temple Foundation --

Eph 2:19-22
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
(KJV)

Anyone who thinks that foundation there can be corrupted by anything, or anyone, has much to learn about the Power of The Father, and The Son, and The Holy Spirit. One can only... be joined to that foundation by staying in Christ Jesus The Chief Cornerstone.

You guys just aren't thinking, but instead are letting men's doctrines do the thinking for you! Christ's enemies do not want you to think there's going to be another physical temple built in Jerusalem for the last days, with a false messiah coming to sit in it proclaiming himself to be God, and demanding to be worshipped 'as'... God. Yet that's exactly the subject Apostle Paul was covering in the 2 Thessalonians 2 Scripture.

It was also the specific matter our Lord Jesus was covering when He quoted Daniel about the "abomination of desolation" in Matt.24 and Mark 13. And there's already been a historical pattern for that abomination of desolation idol worship setup in a temple in Jerusalem. It happened in 170 B.C. with the one named Antiochus Epiphanes. He conquered Jerusalem with an army, went into the 2nd temple and sacrificed swine upon the altar, spread its broth around inside the temple, and then setup an idol abomination to Zeus, and commanded all in Judea to bow in false worship to it.

And yet you ignore the fact that Scripture tells us we do not become incorruptible until the last trumpet.
1Cor15:52-53 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
Are the Scriptures wrong? Are we already incorruptible? Or could it be that you are mistaken and that believers can be corrupted? If not then how do you explain the multitude of different doctrines that Believers have? Why do some believers do as you did (in the mark of the beast thread) and twist Scripture by claiming it said the beast of Rev17 is called Babylon? When in reality as Scripture tells us it is the whore that rides the beasts back that is called Babylon, not the beast. Is it because you have allowed the doctrines of men to corrupt your thinking? Sure it is, WE (myself included) all fall short at times. If the man of sin only shows himself he is God and not the world then he would have a hard time convincing the world he is God. besides even if the Jews do rebuild the temple, (and they may) it will still be desolate. Christ declared their building desolate, rebuilding it won't cure that. Do you really believe the temple of God is a building that Christ declared desolate?
As you are led friend, as you are led!
 

Retrobyter

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Shalom, Ridgerunner.

And yet you ignore the fact that Scripture tells us we do not become incorruptible until the last trumpet.
1Cor15:52-53 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
Are the Scriptures wrong? Are we already incorruptible? Or could it be that you are mistaken and that believers can be corrupted? If not then how do you explain the multitude of different doctrines that Believers have? Why do some believers do as you did (in the mark of the beast thread) and twist Scripture by claiming it said the beast of Rev17 is called Babylon? When in reality as Scripture tells us it is the whore that rides the beasts back that is called Babylon, not the beast. Is it because you have allowed the doctrines of men to corrupt your thinking? Sure it is, WE (myself included) all fall short at times. If the man of sin only shows himself he is God and not the world then he would have a hard time convincing the world he is God. besides even if the Jews do rebuild the temple, (and they may) it will still be desolate. Christ declared their building desolate, rebuilding it won't cure that. Do you really believe the temple of God is a building that Christ declared desolate?
As you are led friend, as you are led!

A relatively simple misunderstanding can sometimes be missed by the person who misunderstands as well as those who are trying to argue a different point. You have just such a misunderstanding when you said, "Christ declared the building desolate." That's NOT what He declared desolate! Read it again carefully:

Matt 23:37-39
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
KJV


Okay, so what is "your house?" Is it the Temple? Here's the Greek of the same passage:

To Kata Matthaion `Agion Euaggelion (The Holy [Thrilling] Good-News According-to Matthaios or Matthew) 23:37-39
37 Ierousaleem Ierousaleem, hee apokteinousa tous profeetas kai lithobolousa tous apestalmenous pros auteen, posakis eetheleesa episunagagein ta tekna sou, hon tropon ornis episunagei ta nossia autees hupo tas pterugas, kai ouk eetheleesate!
38 Idou afietai humin ho oikos humoon ereemos.
39 Legoo gar humin, ou mee me ideete ap’ arti heoos an eipeete, “Eulogeemenos ho erchomenos en onomati Kurios.”
Interlinear Bible of PC Study Bible v.5

37 Ierousaleem = 37 Yerushalaim (Jerusalem)
Ierousaleem, = Yerushalaim, (Jerusalem,)
hee = the
apokteinousa = killers
tous = of-the
profeetas = prophets
kai = and
lithobolousa = stoners
tous = of-the
apestalmenous = ambassadors
pros = unto
auteen, = thee, (you [singular],)
posakis = how-many-times
eetheleesa = I’d-have-chosen
episunagagein = to-gather-together
ta = the
tekna = children
sou, = of-thee; thy, (of-you; your [singular],)
hon = in-that
tropon = way/style
ornis = a-bird
episunagei = gathers-together
ta = the
nossia = chicks
autees = of-it; its
hupo = under
tas = the
pterugas, = wings,
kai = and
ouk = no
eetheleesate! = thou-choseth; you-chose (singular)!
38 Idou = 38 Behold; Look!
afietai = is-sent-forth
humin = with-you (plural)
ho = the
oikos = house/household
humoon = of-you; your (plural)
ereemos. = lonesome/waste.
39 Legoo = 39 I-say
gar = for
humin, = to-you [plural],
ou = no
mee = not-at-all
me = me
ideete = you-see (plural, 2nd aorist, subjunctive mood)
ap’ (apo) = off; away-from
arti = just-now
heoos = until
an’ (ana) = up; at
eipeete, = you-say (plural, 2nd aorist, subjunctive mood),
“Eulogeemenos = “Welcome
ho = the
erchomenos = Comer; One-coming
en = in/on
onomati = name/authority
Kurios.” = of-LORD.”; of-ADONAI.”

Therefore, although the Greek word "oikos" can mean either a literal "house" or an abstract "household," the latter is the better choice because it, WITH THEM, is being SENT AWAY lonesome and a waste, "desolate!"

Thus, it is that "their houseHOLD is being sent away desolate!"