Tithing

To everyone,
2Co 9:5 Therefore I thought it necessary to exhort the brethren, that they would go before unto you, and make up beforehand your bounty, whereof ye had notice before, that the same might be ready, as a matter of bounty, and not as of covetousness.
2Co 9:6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.

2Co 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

2Co 9:8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:

Axehead said:

This whole notion about keeping track of God's blessings based on what you give seems very mercenary at best and not something the Holy Spirit inspires me to do.

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Please elaborate on "keeping track of God's blessings based on what you give", because I don't think I said anything like this from what I understand.

Rocky Wiley said:

To everyone,
2Co 9:5 Therefore I thought it necessary to exhort the brethren, that they would go before unto you, and make up beforehand your bounty, whereof ye had notice before, that the same might be ready, as a matter of bounty, and not as of covetousness.
2Co 9:6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.

2Co 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

2Co 9:8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:

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A legalistic tither (I'm not one, I approach God based on his promises), would say that this "only refers to a collection for the saints that were
in Jerusalem " and is in no way shape or form God's "new" pattern of giving.
So how would you respond to them ?

So that we don't stray from the subject and to make sure I understand what we are talking about: Are we talking about the OT Tithe being a law (or even principle) for Christians, today?

If we are, then I conclude from the NT there is no such law (of percentages) that Christians are under. Nothing more needs to be said by me. Let's leave room for the Holy Spirit to speak to all of us.

Axehead said:

So that we don't stray from the subject and to make sure I understand what we are talking about: Are we talking about the OT Tithe being a law (or even principle) for Christians, today?

If we are, then I conclude from the NT there is no such law (of percentages) that Christians are under. Nothing more needs to be said by me. Let's leave room for the Holy Spirit to speak to all of us.

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Yourself and many others consider tithing OT law which is no longer relevant for Christians today and their are many reasons why you would come
to this conclusion.
And I'm not knocking that at all ... I know many of those reasons because I studied the subject in depth myself and also followed that line of thinking
at one stage.
And I like you could Scripturally knock the arguments FOR tithing in the NT out of the park.

So no, tithing CANNOT BE Scripturally backed up in the NT and I'm saying so and I can knock down every argument that says otherwise, that
is how confident I am of that.
And tithing in the NT cannot be approached as a principle either because it was never a principle to begin with.

That is why I approach tithing from the "promise" POV.
And do not condemn those who do not tithe but rather point out that you could hold God to his promise if you should decide to tithe because he
states that ALL of his promises are yes and amen ... and the promises of Malachi are included in the word ALL.

Furthermore, I spoke of the benefits that a local Christian church - like mine - who does tithe albeit according to the legalistic POV, would be able
to enjoy should the congregation decide to tithe.
But then as far as I am concerned it would have to be on the basis of people approaching the tithe as a promise because beyond that it is legalism.

Enquirer said:

A legalistic tither (I'm not one, I approach God based on his promises), would say that this "only refers to a collection for the saints that were
in Jerusalem " and is in no way shape or form God's "new" pattern of giving.
So how would you respond to them ?

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When I started going to church my financial life was totally in shambles. I wanted to please God and it seemed the best way, from the pulpit, was to tithe 10% and then give to other church needs. It was like a tax that I could not afford, but was ashamed not to do it. Shame is the way many churches work and that in return dilutes the love of God.

Don't use the word 'tithe' for it does not pertain to us, use the proper Christian term, 'give'. No one should be shamed into giving.

@ Rocky Wiley ...

Yes shame is an often used tactic ... I remember a leader in a church I used to attend being named publicly from
the pulpit and being kicked out of leadership, condemned and told never to return because he pretty much rejected
tithing as a whole.

"Giving" is the primary word, you're a 100% on that ... as Paul says in 2 Cor 8:7,

But as you excel in everything—in faith, in speech, in knowledge, in all earnestness, and in our love for you—see that you
excel in this act of grace also.

What grace is he talking about ?
Giving.

He goes on to say in the very next verse (and this would have been a perfect opportunity to punt the message of tithing, but he does not)

I say this not as a command, but to prove by the earnestness of others that your love also is genuine.

Tithing and even offerings was a command !

He could have always turned around and said, "Don't forget the tithe that you're obligated to bring", but he never.

The Book of Acts chapter 15, contains one of the most powerful messages for the gentile believing Christian today.
I strongly advise that you read it.
I will quote just a few verses from it and watch how the Holy Spirit unfolds God's path for the NT gentile believer.

And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner
of Moses, ye cannot be saved. Acts 15:1

When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas,
and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question. Acts 15:2

And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all
things that God had done with them. Acts 15:4

But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, AND TO
COMMAND them TO KEEP the law of Moses. Acts 15:5

Please note that tithing was considered by EVERY JEW at that time to be a law of Moses ... they never tithed because
Abraham did or said so, they did it because Moses commanded them to ... this is something that people tend to forget.
Let's continue.

And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. Acts 15:6

What matter ?
The matter of the Gentile believers being 1) circumcised and 2) keeping the Law of Moses.

And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me: Simeon hath declared how God
at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. Acts 15:13 & 14

Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: But that we write unto them, that
they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. Acts 15:19 & 20

For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; That ye abstain
from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall
do well. Fare ye well. Acts 15:28 & 29

Circumcision went out of the window and so did the Law of Moses and it was the Holy Spirit's decision.
In conclusion, the Holy Spirit himself decided that these things were not to be part of the gentile believers experience.
This abolishes tithing which falls under the "keeping of the Law of Moses".

To resurrect it, is to nullify the decision of the Holy Spirit.
To dress it up in new clothing is to practice deception.

End of story.

My wife and I joined a church in 1980. Shortly afterward I was laid off from my job in a steel mill. The church held a membership meeting that we attended in which people were supposed to write their financial pledge on a form and step forward publicly to deposit it in a box. A few days later I got a call mentioning that I didn't deposited a pledge form. I told them that I had just gotten laid off from my job, so I had no income to pledge and it would be a few weeks before my first unemployment check would come in just to buy groceries. Not knowing what income I might have, I could not pledge anything but we'd give what we could. Well, two days later the "ladies from the church" show up at our house with a food basket. Now, we were not in poverty or without food. We simply could not pledge money. The whole episode was so embarassing and humiliating. And unscriptural.

Hah, at a home fellowship meeting I mentioned to the leader that my customers were not paying me on time, he called me into his
kitchen and gave me two bags of potatoes.
I said thanks and took them
When I got home (wife was feeling under the weather that evening and didn't go), I hauled in the potatoes and she gave me a
really funny look and asked where on earth I got all the potatoes ... so I told her.
She burst out laughing and said, "Well I'm not eating potatoes for the next two months, let's give most of it away".
Which we did ... now our kitchen cupboards and 3 fridges were full and we had money in the account but I was not about to rob
the man of his blessing by sowing into our lives.

Malachi 3:8-12 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. 9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. 10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. 11 And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the LORD of hosts. 12 And all nations shall call you blessed: for ye shall be a delightsome land, saith the LORD of hosts.

1 Corinthians 9:13-14 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? 14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

Hebrews 7:1-6 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; 2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; 3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually. 4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils. 5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham: 6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.

Hebrews 7:14-17 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood. 15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest, 16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life. 17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

After the order or Melchisedec, is Christ a priest for ever. Was Melchisedec tithed too? Yes he was indeed, by faithful Abraham. And the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel, should live of the gospel. Those that are pastors, and have no time for other jobs, but spend more time in the word, preaching, ministering, counseling, etc. Their income comes from those that they are feeding. Like a farmer who spends his time cultivating his crops to feed to the people, and is paid, so too are those who spend time making a feast for the children of the Lord, are paid for their services, that they may live, and eat, and take care of spiritual needs and church needs.

As the blessing Abraham received came upon him through faith, and not by the law, so too the blessing of Abraham comes upon the Gentiles, who have faith. So too, as Abraham tithed, so too are the children of Abraham to tithe to the priest after the order of Melchisedec.

Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Tithe to Jesus.

Axehead said:

Regarding Melchizedek

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Hebrews 7:6-8 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises. 7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better. 8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

This passages poses an interesting question. Here, men that die receive tithes, but there he receiveth them, of whom it is wintessed that he liveth. Tell me, who is receiving tithes, and who it is that liveth?

For the readers, here is an excellent treatment of the topic of whether tithing is for the New Testament believer, today.

Tithing Low-Realm, Obsolete and Defunct

Excellent treatise on: Hebrews 7:7-8

"The “he” referred to in Hebrews 7:8 is the same “he” referred to in verse 6. That “he” is Melchizedek. That “he” is not referring to Jesus in the New Covenant. Melchizedek is the subject of verse 1 and is referred to in verses 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 10, 11, 15, 17, and 21."

"This verse is absolutely not saying that the practice of tithing was being followed by the New Testament church at the time the book of Hebrews was written. It is also not talking about a practice of tithing that is supposed to be in effect permanently, throughout the church age. The phrase “here men that die receive tithes” is not talking about Christian ministers in the church, now or then. It is talking about priests at the temple in Jerusalem. The “he” that is being referred to by the phrase “but there he receiveth them” is Melchizedek, 4000 years ago, not Jesus.

This verse is incorrectly interpreted by some to say in effect:
This erroneous interpretation of the verse does not comprehend the theological argument that is being made in the passage. This misinterpretation is carelessly taken to be a scriptural proof that tithing is the will of God and the standard mode of operation in the New Covenant."And here (in the New Covenant), men that die (our pastors and other ministers) receive tithes (from born-again Christians); but there (up in heaven) he (Jesus) (is the one who actually) is receiving them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

Objectively interpreted within its context, the verse is actually saying:"

"And here (in Israel at the time that Hebrews was written) men (who are priests under the Old Covenant) that (will eventually) die (and be succeeded by another mortal man after them) receive tithes (from those who are following the Law of Moses); but there (2000 years prior, during the time of Abraham in Genesis 14) he (Melchizedek) receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth."

When you take the whole counsel of God in the NT, if this were a major Christian doctrine, you would have many supporting "witnesses" (scriptures) as all NT doctrines do.

Read online for free.

Have a blessed day,

Axehead

Axehead said:

For the readers, here is an excellent treatment of the topic of whether tithing is for the New Testament believer, today.

Tithing Low-Realm, Obsolete and Defunct

Excellent treatise on: Hebrews 7:7-8

"The “he” referred to in Hebrews 7:8 is the same “he” referred to in verse 6. That “he” is Melchizedek. That “he” is not referring to Jesus in the New Covenant. Melchizedek is the subject of verse 1 and is referred to in verses 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 10, 11, 15, 17, and 21."

"This verse is absolutely not saying that the practice of tithing was being followed by the New Testament church at the time the book of Hebrews was written. It is also not talking about a practice of tithing that is supposed to be in effect permanently, throughout the church age. The phrase “here men that die receive tithes” is not talking about Christian ministers in the church, now or then. It is talking about priests at the temple in Jerusalem. The “he” that is being referred to by the phrase “but there he receiveth them” is Melchizedek, 4000 years ago, not Jesus.

This verse is incorrectly interpreted by some to say in effect:
This erroneous interpretation of the verse does not comprehend the theological argument that is being made in the passage. This misinterpretation is carelessly taken to be a scriptural proof that tithing is the will of God and the standard mode of operation in the New Covenant."And here (in the New Covenant), men that die (our pastors and other ministers) receive tithes (from born-again Christians); but there (up in heaven) he (Jesus) (is the one who actually) is receiving them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

Objectively interpreted within its context, the verse is actually saying:"

"And here (in Israel at the time that Hebrews was written) men (who are priests under the Old Covenant) that (will eventually) die (and be succeeded by another mortal man after them) receive tithes (from those who are following the Law of Moses); but there (2000 years prior, during the time of Abraham in Genesis 14) he (Melchizedek) receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth."

When you take the whole counsel of God in the NT, if this were a major Christian doctrine, you would have many supporting "witnesses" (scriptures) as all NT doctrines do.

Read online for free.

Have a blessed day,

Axehead

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Now, all you have to do is tell me who Melchisedec is.

Hints: He is a King <- (capital K) or peace, and is a King <- (capital K) or righteousness. See the chapter for the rest of the description of Him.

Raeneske said:

Now, all you have to do is tell me who Melchisedec is.

Hints: He is a King <- (capital K) or peace, and is a King <- (capital K) or righteousness. See the chapter for the rest of the description of Him.

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I think this thread has more than enough about tithing now and there is no secret knowledge about tithing and Melchizedec that only a few people know and then everyone else should trust.

Jesus and the Apostles would have gone on at length about tithing and we would see it practiced in the Book of Acts.

Speaking of the King of Salem,,,,peace to you, in Christ.

Will that be cash or mastercard?

heretoeternity said:

Will that be cash or mastercard?

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Tithe Machine, please. God loves you!

[SIZE=16pt]Personally I believe Jesus called us to give everything.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Are not Christians told to share everything? If someone ask for something of a Christian are they not commanded to give?[/SIZE]

(Luke 12:33) “Sell your possessions and give alms. Get yourselves purses that do not wear out, treasure that will not fail you, in Heaven where no thief can reach it and no moth destroy it. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.”

(Luke 14:33) “So in the same way, none of you can be my disciple unless he gives up all his possessions.”

(Mark 12: 43-44) “A poor widow came and put in two small coins, the equivalent of a penny. Then he called his disciples and said to them, ‘I tell you solemnly, this poor widow has put more in than all who have contributed to the treasury; for they have all put in money they had over, but she from the little she had has put in everything she possessed, all she had to live on.”

(Luke 6:30-35) “Give to everyone who asks you, and do not ask for your property back from the man who robs you. Treat others, as you would like them to treat you. If you love those who love you, what thanks can you expect? Even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who do good to you, what thanks can you expect? For even sinners do that much. And if you lend to those from whom you hope to receive what thanks can you expect? Even sinners lend to sinners to get back the same amount. Instead, love your enemies and do good, and lend without any hope of return. You will have a great reward, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he himself is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked.

Johnlove said:

[SIZE=16pt]Personally I believe Jesus called us to give everything.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Are not Christians told to share everything? If someone ask for something of a Christian are they not commanded to give?[/SIZE]

(Luke 12:33) “Sell your possessions and give alms. Get yourselves purses that do not wear out, treasure that will not fail you, in Heaven where no thief can reach it and no moth destroy it. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.”

(Luke 14:33) “So in the same way, none of you can be my disciple unless he gives up all his possessions.”

(Mark 12: 43-44) “A poor widow came and put in two small coins, the equivalent of a penny. Then he called his disciples and said to them, ‘I tell you solemnly, this poor widow has put more in than all who have contributed to the treasury; for they have all put in money they had over, but she from the little she had has put in everything she possessed, all she had to live on.”

(Luke 6:30-35) “Give to everyone who asks you, and do not ask for your property back from the man who robs you. Treat others, as you would like them to treat you. If you love those who love you, what thanks can you expect? Even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who do good to you, what thanks can you expect? For even sinners do that much. And if you lend to those from whom you hope to receive what thanks can you expect? Even sinners lend to sinners to get back the same amount. Instead, love your enemies and do good, and lend without any hope of return. You will have a great reward, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he himself is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked.

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So, if a "Tithe" Preacher asks you for everything, you will give everything to him? Or are you supposed to be led by the Spirit and the Word in your thoughts and actions? You own nothing?

Axehead said:

So, if a "Tithe" Preacher asks you for everything, you will give everything to him? Or are you supposed to be led by the Spirit and the Word in your thoughts and actions? You own nothing?

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[SIZE=16pt]I gave all that was owned by me away many years ago. What I have now is owned in common with others. I am not free to give what is not mine.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt](Acts 2:44-45) “The faithful all lived together and owned everything in common; they sold their goods and possessions and shared out the proceeds among themselves according to what each one needed.”[/SIZE]

Johnlove said:

I gave all that was owned by me away many years ago. What I have now is owned in common with others. I am not free to give what is not mine.
(Acts 2:44-45) “The faithful all lived together and owned everything in common; they sold their goods and possessions and shared out the proceeds among themselves according to what each one needed.”

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Paul the apostle owned tentmaking supplies. Was he wrong in owning them? Are you saying a person is in error if they own a truck and tools which enables them to work and feed their family?

I don't recall any of the apostles chastising anyone for owning anything. Not even Ananias and Saphira were chastised for owning anything. They were chastised for lying.