Question about John 12:40

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ryangrom

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I have been wondering about this verse:John 12:4040 “The Lord has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts— so that their eyes cannot see, and their hearts cannot understand, and they cannot turn to me and have me heal them.”[o]I have been trying to figure out why God would blind their eyes and harden their hearts so that they couldnt see, understand, or turn to God so he could heal them. To me, it seems inconsitant of the character of God to prevent people from turning to him.I can see a sort of common theme in Romans 1:21-32: 21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.I am wondering if the common theme is that these people blasphemed the holy spirit and therefore God refused to allow them to be saved by grace through faith? I could very well be misconnecting the dots here. Just trying to figure it all out. Thank you for any help in advance.
 
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If you read between the elipses (¶) you'll know what he's talking about. He's fulfilling the words spoke of by Elijah (OOPS ISAIAH), (concerning the priests. (42 & 43))37 ¶ But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of himIt also says some believed, but were in fear of being excommunicated if they talked.42 ¶ Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:43 For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.Joseph of Arimatheia, would fall into this category, he was probably told not to talk, so he could protect the body of Jesus. Others loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.
 

tim_from_pa

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If I may add another thought here, this is where the two house doctrine fits in nicely considering that we have grace and Law. I am by no means separating them, but rather citing the covenants involved, and one sees dualistic tendencies all throughout scripture.Judah has a different purpose, and to them was the law-making functions (Genesis 49:10) and I take the stance that God wanted that part to continue on while Israel enjoyed her grace days, I mean such as the feasts, the keeping of the Law (Torah) remembrance of their customs and ways, etc.Israel, on the other hand received grace in the wilderness. (Jeremiah 31:2) and were to be a light to all nations according to the Abrahamic promises and Isaiah 49.One keeps the ways, the other found (and proclaims) grace, just as our Lord in His Word shown two sides in the Old Covenant and New Covenant, the old man from earth and the new man from above.If Judah (as a whole) did receive grace, that would have contradicted the whole point into making the Israelites into two nations, each with a separate destiny.
 

Christina

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John 12:40 "He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them."If I might also add that Jesus is quoting here from Isaiah 6:9, 10; "And He said, "God and tell this People, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not." "Make the heart of this People fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed." Isaiah continues in the sixth chapter, "But yet in it shall be a tenth, and it shall return, and shall be eaten: as a teil tree, and as an oak, whose substance is in them, when they cast their leaves: so the holy seed shall be the substance thereof."This tenth that remain true to God have not had their eyes blinded, but they do understand in their hearts the full substance that the Holy Spirit has placed within them to stand firm in the truths of God's Word.
 

ryangrom

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Thank you so much for answering this question
smile.gif
It still hurts a little that only the tenth would respond. But it is consistant with the character of God to only perserve the remnant like he did throughout the OT, and I believe God is perfectly just.Do you think that this blinding of their eyes was lifted after Jesus was risen? It seems OT'ish to keep peoples eyes blinded like that.
 
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Do you think that this blinding of their eyes was lifted after Jesus was risen? It seems OT'ish to keep peoples eyes blinded like that.
No, somewhere in the Bible it says he has personally blinded some so when the time is right they might be saved, he hardens there heart like Pharaoh I guess. Probably also for the Jews that they might be saved in the end.
 

Carico

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I have been wondering about this verse:John 12:4040 “The Lord has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts— so that their eyes cannot see, and their hearts cannot understand, and they cannot turn to me and have me heal them.”[o]I have been trying to figure out why God would blind their eyes and harden their hearts so that they couldnt see, understand, or turn to God so he could heal them. To me, it seems inconsitant of the character of God to prevent people from turning to him.I can see a sort of common theme in Romans 1:21-32: 21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.I am wondering if the common theme is that these people blasphemed the holy spirit and therefore God refused to allow them to be saved by grace through faith? I could very well be misconnecting the dots here. Just trying to figure it all out. Thank you for any help in advance.
Romans 11:32 tells us why; "For God has bound all men over to disobedience so he can have mercy on them all.":)
 

doc8645

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I believe the answer your looking for concerning John 12:40 is NOT God physically interferring in people, but the philosophy of God, the very concept of God that some refuse to believe or acknowledge which causes these situations to occur within their own belief system. Its the way the hebrews wrote, as in Exodus where Mose's was to go to Pharaoh, and yet each time he did "God hardened Pharaoh's heart", God didn't do anything physically to Pharaoh, but because he (Pharaoh) thought of himself as a god and had other gods, he refused to accept the concept of the real God, he just "locked up", "shut down", whenever "God" was mentioned and refused to accept or believe (hardened his heart). It seems to be like some atheist's get whenever "God" is mentioned, they don't seem to want to know but just get confrontational about it. As someone once explained the concept to me: " Its like the heart could consist of either wax or clay, whenever the light and warmth of the "word" hits it the wax melts and yet the clay hardens". Thats the way I see it anyway, hope that helps.God bless;doc8645
 

Carico

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I believe the answer your looking for concerning John 12:40 is NOT God physically interferring in people, but the philosophy of God, the very concept of God that some refuse to believe or acknowledge which causes these situations to occur within their own belief system. Its the way the hebrews wrote, as in Exodus where Mose's was to go to Pharaoh, and yet each time he did "God hardened Pharaoh's heart", God didn't do anything physically to Pharaoh, but because he (Pharaoh) thought of himself as a god and had other gods, he refused to accept the concept of the real God, he just "locked up", "shut down", whenever "God" was mentioned and refused to accept or believe (hardened his heart). It seems to be like some atheist's get whenever "God" is mentioned, they don't seem to want to know but just get confrontational about it. As someone once explained the concept to me: " Its like the heart could consist of either wax or clay, whenever the light and warmth of the "word" hits it the wax melts and yet the clay hardens". Thats the way I see it anyway, hope that helps.God bless;doc8645
No, God just isn't capable of foreknowledge, he is also omnipotent. The bible tells us all over the place that God hardens whom he wants to harden and has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy. God controls hearts, minds, and all the events in the world as Matthew 10:29 tells us, "Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them falls to the ground apart from the will of my Father.":)
 

verzanumi24

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I have been wondering about this verse:John 12:4040 “The Lord has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts— so that their eyes cannot see, and their hearts cannot understand, and they cannot turn to me and have me heal them.”[o]I have been trying to figure out why God would blind their eyes and harden their hearts so that they couldnt see, understand, or turn to God so he could heal them. To me, it seems inconsitant of the character of God to prevent people from turning to him.I can see a sort of common theme in Romans 1:21-32: 21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.I am wondering if the common theme is that these people blasphemed the holy spirit and therefore God refused to allow them to be saved by grace through faith? I could very well be misconnecting the dots here. Just trying to figure it all out. Thank you for any help in advance.
God keep unbelievers in the dark, so to speak so that He will have mercy on them. You see unbelievers who do not believe the truth of the gospel are not saved, but they are not condemned either. He will bring them back to life, if dead in the second resurrection and then give them the Holy Spirit as He has done to us.Only God can open the mind of people to the truth; our responsibility is to preach the gospel and baptized those who were predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son. Then He will use us, when we are gloried at Jesus second coming, to save the world. Jesus will return and set up His kingdom on the Earth, in Jerusalem and the saints will rule with Him over the nations. This is all supported in the scriptures if we are willing to believe.
 

Christina

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God keep unbelievers in the dark, so to speak so that He will have mercy on them. You see unbelievers who do not believe the truth of the gospel are not saved, but they are not condemned either.
I completely agree with this statement God blinds many for their own good. He would never deny anyone eyes to see him out of some kind of favoritism if he blinds a person it is part of his plan to use them as Pharaoh was used or to protect them from the death of their soul (second death). I'm also sure that if he uses one like Pharaoh to bring about his plan. They are not condemned to the second death.
 

Jordan

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I got so much to learn whatsoever...although I don't understand that at all on the quote and Kriss's post since sin = death and Death is Satan's title (or name)...so you are freely to help if thou so desire...It doesn't necessary that I agree or disagree with that, it's just something to think about it.Lovest thou in Christ Jesus (Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour.
 

verzanumi24

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I completely agree with this statement God blinds many for their own good. He would never deny anyone eyes to see him out of some kind of favoritism if he blinds a person it is part of his plan to use them as Pharaoh was used or to protect them from the death of their soul (second death). I'm also sure that if he uses one like Pharaoh to bring about his plan. They are not condemned to the second death.
Yes you are right, read also my post on God's plan of salvation. Because of a lack of understanding of God's total plan for man's salvation many Christian/Church believe that those who have not repented, dead or alive are doomed....but not so according to scriptures.
 

verzanumi24

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I got so much to learn whatsoever...although I don't understand that at all on the quote and Kriss's post since sin = death and Death is Satan's title (or name)...so you are freely to help if thou so desire...It doesn't necessary that I agree or disagree with that, it's just something to think about it.Lovest thou in Christ Jesus (Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour.
No one understands everything in the scriptures, but our attitude should be one who is willing to learn from the Bible, what God has to say. If you would like to learn more about God's plan for the unsaved dead, and those who have not repented, read my post on God's plan of salvation.
 

ryangrom

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I'm confused. What you are speaking of sounds like almost a purgatory type belief. You are saying we can sin to our hearts content and die denying God and still have a second chance at heaven? I can understand something like what Kriss was saying about Pharoah not being condemned to the second death for having his heart hardened, but sinners in general being able to die in their sin and still have a second chance after death?
 

verzanumi24

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I'm confused. What you are speaking of sounds like almost a purgatory type belief. You are saying we can sin to our hearts content and die denying God and still have a second chance at heaven? I can understand something like what Kriss was saying about Pharoah not being condemned to the second death for having his heart hardened, but sinners in general being able to die in their sin and still have a second chance after death?
Read my post on God's plan for salvation; God knows what He is doing and He is much more merciful than many of us want Him to be. You call it a second chance, but how can it, if God never gave most a first chance to begin with? As Jesus said, "no man can come to me unless that Father which send me draws him, and I will raise him up on the last day." Or "God has committed them in unbelief that He might have mercy on them."The problem is because some of us believe that all the things mentioned in the Old Testament deals totally with things of the past, we fail to see that most of the Old Testament prophecy, is yet to be fulfilled, and deals with millennial rule of Jesus and the saints.
 

verzanumi24

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I have been wondering about this verse:John 12:4040 “The Lord has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts— so that their eyes cannot see, and their hearts cannot understand, and they cannot turn to me and have me heal them.”[o]
Unbelievers who are alive at Jesus' return and the unbelievers who are dead will be offered salvation according to God's plan that He had laid down in the Old Testament. The Holy Days that the children of Israel were commanded to observe tells us how, and in what order. The reason why scriptures such as the one you quote is a mystery to some of us, is because when we read/study the Bible, we ignore the Old Testament. The Old Testament is crucial in understanding God's plan of salvation for mankind.
 

tim bennett

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WHAT? I AM REALLY CONFUSED. but it is really simple. if you acknowledge jesus as god. the godhead bodily, that died for our sins and was resurrected from the tomb. who (jesus)also has the power to resurrect our lives here on earth as well as our eternal souls=we will get eternal life with him. if one does not believe that, that person will burn in hell with satan, the antichrist, the false prophet and the other children of sheol.and they will be burned and tourtured for ever and ever! and for the nonbeliever that hears false doctrine, he will be made twice the sons of hell.
 

verzanumi24

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WHAT? I AM REALLY CONFUSED. but it is really simple. if you acknowledge jesus as god. the godhead bodily, that died for our sins and was resurrected from the tomb. who (jesus)also has the power to resurrect our lives here on earth as well as our eternal souls=we will get eternal life with him. if one does not believe that, that person will burn in hell with satan, the antichrist, the false prophet and the other children of sheol.and they will be burned and tourtured for ever and ever! and for the nonbeliever that hears false doctrine, he will be made twice the sons of hell.
There is no such thing in the Bible as an "eternal soul." Only God is eternal and Jesus said He will give us eternal life....if we already had it He would not have to offer it as His gift....what the wicked receive is death, not eternal life. When we speak, we should take care that what we say is Biblical and not because we/our church say it.Satan's torment is not the fire but seeing all that he has worked for goes up in smoke. The fire will burn for a very very long time but it will not last forever. Forever can also be translated "from age to age."Human language is limited, so the same word that is used to describe God's existence is the same word that is used for the duration for Hell....but it does not mean that Hell has always existed or that it will never end.
 

Joyful

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God keep unbelievers in the dark, so to speak so that He will have mercy on them. You see unbelievers who do not believe the truth of the gospel are not saved, but they are not condemned either. He will bring them back to life, if dead in the second resurrection and then give them the Holy Spirit as He has done to us.
Are you saying that everyone will be saved in the end?:confused::confused::confused:
 
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