Do We as Christians Keep the Mosaic Law?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

mark s

New Member
Nov 12, 2010
444
20
0
I don't know any christians that follow the law like the Jews do, but the law is from the same, unchanging God. Are all the details of the law only meant for Israel, or should christians follow it to the letter as well?
Is there real proof that we should or shouldn't? Biblical proof, something very clear?

1 Timothy 1:8-9 “And we know that the Law is good, if anyone uses it lawfully, knowing this, that Law is not laid down for a righteous one, but for lawless and undisciplined ones, for ungodly and sinful ones, for unholy and profane ones . . .”

The Law was given for those not born again. Being born again, we have been created “patterned after God, in righteousness and true holiness” (Eph. 4:24).

I would describe the purpose of the Law with these two Scriptures:

Galatians 3:23-26 “But before the coming of faith, we were guarded under Law, having been locked up to the faith being about to be revealed. So that the Law has become a trainer of us until Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But faith coming, we are no longer under a trainer; for you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.”

Now, one thing to remember, the Law was given to the Israelites only. It was not given to the gentiles. When Paul is saying “we were guarded under Law”, “we” means Israelites. What Paul is saying here relates specifically to the Jews.

The word that’s translated here as “trainer” (other translations, tutor, schoolmaster), is paidogogos, or, in a more familiar form, paedogogue. This is “one who leads children”, and it was used specifically of a person, generally a slave, assigned to guard and guide children from childhood into their teens.

They would take them to school and back, and accompany them other places. The primary function of this person was the child’s constant companion to make sure the child “toed the line”, obeyed the rules, and never forgot what was expected of them. The paedogogue was to keep the child safe from physical and moral harm until maturity.

Once the child reached maturity, the paedogogue was of course dismissed.

For the Jews, the Law was a constant restraint against sin, a reminder of God’s holiness, and of their need for God’s grace. Paul likens the coming of faith to maturity, the time when the paedogogue is no longer needed. It was given to keep the Jews a separated people, dependent upon God, and seeking His salvation, until Messiah had come.

Those who had not reached the maturity of righteousness by faith were kept from going off the deep end by a Law requiring righteousness. The standard could never be reached, but so long as you were trying, it kept you where you needed to be until Christ could give you His righteousness, lest you simply become abandoned to your own sin.

The second purpose for the Law was to give awareness of sin:

Romans 7:7 “What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? Let it not be! But I did not know sin except through Law; for also I did not know lust except the Law said, You shall not lust."

The Law shows us what sin is, and, before Christ came, gave a standard, a target to aim for.

But the Law could not, and can not, give righteousness. Since God’s only acceptable standard is total moral perfection, start to finish, through and through, no matter how much we keep the law, it’s like swimming to Hawaii. I might make it to the buoys, and you might make it to Catalina, but neither of us can swim to Hawaii. No one can.

But isn’t the Law good? Shouldn’t we use it as a pattern for our behavior? Let’s see what the Scripture says . . .

Colossians 2:16-17 “Then do not let anyone judge you in eating, or in drinking, or in part of a feast, or of a new moon, or of sabbaths, which are a shadow of coming things, but the body is of Christ.”

Romans 14:2-4 “One indeed believes to eat all things, but being weak, another one eats vegetables. The one eating, do not despise the one not eating. And the one not eating, do not judge the one eating, for God received him. Who are you judging another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. But he will stand, for God is able to make him stand.”

Romans 14:5 “One indeed judges a day above another day; and another one judges every day alike. Let each one be fully assured in his own mind.”

Dietary Law? Keeping the feasts? Sabbath? No.

Galatians 5:6 “For in Christ Jesus, neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any strength, but faith working through love.”

Circumcision? No.

2 Corinthians 9:7 (concerning giving) “Each one as he purposes in his heart, not out of grief or out of necessity, for God loves a cheerful giver.”

Tithing? No.

Should we say, “those are the ‘ceremonial laws’, but we are still bound by the ‘moral laws’”? Can we subdivide the Law?

Galatians 3:10 “For as many as are out of works of Law, these are under a curse. For it has been written, Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all the things having been written in the book of the Law, to do them.”

Galatians 5:3 “And I testify again to every man being circumcised, that he is a debtor to do all the Law,”

There is a specific technical foundation to our not being under the Law, that is, bound to keeping its precepts.

Romans 7:1-6 “Or are you ignorant, brothers, (for I speak to those knowing Law), that the Law lords it over the man for as long a time as he lives? For the married woman was bound by Law to the living husband; but if the husband dies, she is set free from the Law of the husband. So then, if the husband is living, she will be called an adulteress if she becomes another man's. But if the husband dies, she is free from the Law, so as for her not to be an adulteress by becoming another man's. So that, my brothers, you also were made dead to the Law through the body of Christ, for you to become Another's, to the One raised from the dead, so that we may bear fruit to God. For when we were in the flesh, the passions of sin were working in our members through the Law for the bearing of fruit unto death. But now we have been set free from the Law, having died to that in which we were held, so as for us to serve in newness of spirit, and not in oldness of letter.”

Simply put, the Law governs our life. “The soul that sins shall die”. The Law requires our death, and we’ve died in Christ. Romans 6 explains we were immersed into Christ when He died, so His death counts as our own. Therefore, the Law’s righteous demand upon us, that we die, has been met.

I’ll say this again.

The Law demands our death, and we’ve died. Therefore, the Law is finished with us.

“But now we have been set free from the Law, having died to that in which we were held, so as for us to serve in newness of spirit, and not in oldness of letter.”

This is why the Apostle can write,

“Therefore, there is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus”.

There cannot be. There is no longer any law that condemns us. We’ve died to the Law. Just as the woman whose husband dies is free to marry, no longer bound by the law governing marriage, we are no longer bound by the Law of Moses. We are free to “remarry”, as it were, that is, to serve another. We no longer serve the Law, we serve Christ.

What did Paul say?

1 Corinthians 9:19-21 “For being free of all, I enslaved myself to all, that I might gain the more. And I became as a Jew to the Jews, that I might gain Jews; to those under Law as under Law, that I might gain those under Law; to those without Law as without Law (not being without Law of God, but under the law of Christ), that I might gain those without Law.”

He was free to live as those without Law (excepting the fact that he still served Jesus Christ).

What did the Apostles and the early church say?

In Acts 15, the question was specifically raised, “Do the gentiles need to keep the Law?”

Peter had a clear response. “why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we had strength to bear?”

The consensus was clear. Abstain from idols, sexual immorality, eating things strangled, and eating blood. The reason for this was given. “For in every city from ancient generations Moses has those proclaiming him (preaching Moses), having been read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.” (vs. 21)

For the sake of those who have grown up their whole lives being taught that this was not to be done, don’t do it.

It was around this same time that Paul both had Timothy circumcised, because they were going to be evangelizing Jews who knew Timothy was half-Greek, and refused to have Titus circumcised, because the Jews were insisting that he had to be. For the sake of the Gospel, Timothy was circumcised. But to defend the principle, Titus was not.

I think a great example of this whole idea is when I finished paying off my car last year. What would the sense be if I thought I still had to send in that monthly payment? Now, I’m free to send another couple hundred a month to the bank if I want to. But that’s up to me.

“Is there no restraint against bad behavior anymore???”

Galatians 5:13-16 “For, brothers, you were called to freedom. Only do not use the freedom for an opening to the flesh. But through love serve one another. For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in this: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. But if you bite and devour one another, be careful that you are not consumed by one another. But I say, Walk in the Spirit, and you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh.”

Love in Christ,
Mark
 

Rach1370

New Member
Apr 17, 2010
1,801
107
0
44
Australia
Wow...that was a little long!
I would perhaps break it down like this: the bible is very clear...the law was given to show us our sins. Obviously for the law to save, a person would have to keep it perfectly...an impossibility, especially when we add in Jesus telling us that those who have angered in our hearts have murdered. No way to keep it...we needed some one to save us. Enter Jesus. The NT is clear...salvation comes through faith in Jesus alone. But once we have salvation, do we then follow the law? No...the need for the law was fulfilled in Christ, who earned for us what the law pointed out was needed...perfect holiness. But how then are we to live our lives in this freedom...this holiness given to us by Jesus? We do good works! Not because we need to for salvation...but because we get to...because we love Jesus and want to live for him and like him!
 

mark s

New Member
Nov 12, 2010
444
20
0
Hi Rach,

Maybe I can shorten it down further still . . .

Law good, people bad.
Law weak, because people bad.
Jesus good, trade with bad people.
Now people good, law done, and Jesus still good.

Love in Christ,
Mark

;) I've long thought that if you know the right interpretation, it becomes simple!
 

jiggyfly

New Member
Nov 27, 2009
2,750
86
0
63
North Carolina
Great job Mark S, I believe you addressed every point of contention but if not we will soon see.
I always use 2 Corinthians 3 starting with verse 7 to show that Paul did indeed include the ten commandments in the law and connected it all within the old covenant given to Israel through Moses.

Again great job on your presentation of Paul's teaching concerning the believer's responsibility towards the law. Love the way you laid it out with short paragraphs and double spacing very readable. :)
 

Saint

New Member
Apr 7, 2012
243
10
0
Bible Belt
The ceremonial laws of God were done away with when the temple was destroyed, actually upon the crucifixion of Messiah as stated in Dan 9:27 when He caused sacrifice and present to cease.

Regarding the moral laws; this is what Messiah has written upon our hearts Jer 31:33. Messiah is now our high priest and it is to Him that we seek repentance from; no longer do we have ceremonial laws for the forgiveness of sin.
I believe the Mosaic to be dead from the stand point that the law does not save us but the grace of God saves us. The difference being that now having the mind and spirit of Messiah we obey the law of God because we driven to not because we have to. If we do not obey the laws of God it is because we do not have the spirit of Messiah. It is the same with works; we don’t do works to be saved, we do works because we are saved. I feel that if we are living outside the desires of God the Spirit will show us differently and bring us back into line with what is expected.

That being said the Laws of God are still in effect because this is the standard of obedience we live by; if this were not so we would have no understanding of what sin was. The term righteousness can only be defined by the standards of Gods Moral Law; there is no other standard. Messiah says if we Love God with all our ability and others as ourselves we have fulfilled the Law of God; we would have fulfilled the moral laws but without understand what love entails how can we fulfill it?

We are not demanded today to observe the Feast Days of God; however we should be observant of these days because these are the appointed times of God prophetic events and to be unaware is wrong; we are told to be aware.
This will all change with the Millennium temple and many of Gods ceremonial laws will be reinstated.

Regarding the 613 rabbinic laws, they have no place in our lives.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Angelina

Rach1370

New Member
Apr 17, 2010
1,801
107
0
44
Australia
Hi Rach,

Maybe I can shorten it down further still . . .

Law good, people bad.
Law weak, because people bad.
Jesus good, trade with bad people.
Now people good, law done, and Jesus still good.

Love in Christ,
Mark

;) I've long thought that if you know the right interpretation, it becomes simple!

:D Brilliant!
 

veteran

New Member
Aug 6, 2010
6,509
212
0
Southeast USA
1 Cor 6:9-10
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
(KJV)

Gal 5:19-21
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
(KJV)


Quite a bit of law still left, isn't there??? That's Apostle PAUL that wrote those above Scriptures, not Moses!


BEWARE brethren, of those who preach that God's laws are now dead, for our Lord Jesus did not do away with God's laws (like the above). What our Lord Jesus fulfilled was the handwriting of ordinances in the law (Col.2; Eph.2). His giving us His New Covenant is by The Holy Spirit in order to 'teach' how to not stray in doing those things. God said He would 'write' His laws in our hearts and minds, and that's whyThe Holy Spirit is given to help us.


Who is it then, that wants us believers on Christ Jesus to think there is no more law??? The Lawless One, of course! And his children, the "children of darkness". While they preach to you, "Liberty, Equality, Brotherhood, Fraternity", they know you will suck that idea of liberty up to think God's laws are no more in effect today. It's their hope that we might STRAY, and become guilty of those very things Apostle Paul warned us about! Paul never taught that the law is dead. Instead, he taught that WE in Christ Jesus are 'dead' to the law, IF... we walk by The Spirit.
 

mark s

New Member
Nov 12, 2010
444
20
0
Think of it this way.

If a father dies and leaves great wealth for his young children, those children are not much better off than slaves until they grow up, even though they actually own everything their father had. They have to obey their guardians until they reach whatever age their father set.

And that's the way it was with us before Christ came. We were slaves to the spiritual powers of this world.

But when the right time came, God sent his Son, born of a woman, subject to the law. God sent him to buy freedom for us who were slaves to the law, so that he could adopt us as his very own children. And because you Gentiles have become his children, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, and now you can call God your dear Father. Now you are no longer a slave but God's own child. And since you are his child, everything he has belongs to you.

Before you Gentiles knew God, you were slaves to so-called gods that do not even exist.

And now that you have found God (or should I say, now that God has found you), why do you want to go back again and become slaves once more to the weak and useless spiritual powers of this world? You are trying to find favor with God by what you do or don't do on certain days or months or seasons or years. I fear for you.

I am afraid that all my hard work for you was worth nothing. Dear brothers and sisters, I plead with you to live as I do in freedom from these things, for I have become like you Gentiles were--free from the law.

(Galatians 4:1-12 NLT)
 

biggandyy

I am here to help...
Oct 11, 2011
1,753
147
0
SWPA
Matt. 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."

How do we judge another's love if not by the Law?
 

jiggyfly

New Member
Nov 27, 2009
2,750
86
0
63
North Carolina
That is how we appropriate the Spirit of God, not how we apprehend the Spirit of God.

Let me ask you this one question: Did you receive the Holy Spirit by obeying the law of Moses? Of course not! You received the Spirit because you believed the message you heard about Christ. Gal.3:2

Seems to be a play of words. How do you believe the law helps one to know HolySpirit?
 
  • Like
Reactions: jiggyfly

biggandyy

I am here to help...
Oct 11, 2011
1,753
147
0
SWPA
Remember my original question, I am asking about judging another's walk (works), not theirs or my salvation.

The Holy Spirit is the author of the Law, does it not stand to reason we can know more about the Spirit by meditating on the Law and doing what Jesus commanded, to Love God (and God defines love as obeying Him)?