Do We as Christians Keep the Mosaic Law?

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0bed

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Feb 21, 2010
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if we are truly circumcised in the heart then according to the word we are a law unto ourselves. what people forget is that even though we are not under the law we still desire to please God. in order to please God we need to do what is right. according to the word the law is good and just so we who are circumcised in the heart desire to to do good and be just so we try our best to live according to the law to please God. if we fail to do all the law says does not matter because we are not under the law. all those that are circumcised of the heart just repent and continue to do their best to please God.

is this what you wanted? if i missed your question then please repeat it and i will try and answer it next time.

God bless

thisistheendtimes
not to get analytical but when you stated this "God taught me how to be articulate, logical, and to use common sense. God NEVER "told" me to share what He taught me (in fact He gave me indications to the contrary about what might be a "foolish endeavor",.....cynic that I am), but He let me remember also." it brought to mind how i believe you are wrong or have been deceived. the reason i say this is because according to God's word we are to speak the truth in love to people and also we are called to spread the good news and last but not least we are to be able to explain why we believe what we believe to whoever asks. i am sorry if i am mistaken and you did hear God but it does not sound scriptural to me. but i am over joyed you are staying hot for God. keep it up and i will be praying for you

God bless

Thank you 7angels, I wasn't really asking a question, I was simply commenting on the fact it is nice to have the knowledge of sins forgiven.

You are spot on about living a life that is right in the sight of God as well which I know is my hearts desire, like you. May God bless.
 

richard79408

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Mar 20, 2012
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Obed, greetings in Christ from sunny Texas,

you said--Jesus said "Keep my commandments." Do you believe in the divinity of Jesus who said, "Before Abraham, I AM?"

Yes, but to whom did He say it? Jesus says it to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. To that last generation of Jews.

The commandments were the Mosiac law--and, they were not keeping them--they were using instead those 613 man made scribal laws..
Richard79408
 

Sabitarian

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Sep 11, 2011
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Richard,
Are you really that much of a traditionalist that you can not see that His laws are still to be enforced. Just because we can not live a faultless life do we need to throw out the baby with the bath water? Give up your traditions and actually read what is written in the Word of God.

I see a problem here it that Christ did not follow Jewish law as all law is of God or the law of His Father. If you actually read the laws given in exodus you will find that different laws were given at different times. The Ceremonial law was given first a the Passover is the first to be given. The Children of Israel were 430 years in Egypt and were given the sacrifical law as a result of being exposed to the pagan worship of egypt. It was a way for them to be reconciled back to God after an unintentional sin. I hope that you noticed that gentiles who were attached to Isreal were to keep the same laws as the Children of Isreal. No differentation was made between them, all had to keep the same laws. God stressed that His laws were to be a sign upon their hand and frontlets between their eyes, yet still no differentiation between Israel and Gentiles. This is in Exouds 12. In Exodus 20 the Moral law is given.

In Exouus 21 He is still giving the ceramonial law. And of course if you actually read this you will see God Saying the same thigh over and over again, just so it will sink in. In Exodus 24 the Tablets of Stone are given to Moses. IN 25 we see the Tabernacle being collected all of the way through Chapter 28. In 29-31 we see the Ceremonial law still given. All of the way to the end of Chapter 40 there is still no mention of the sacrifical law. Only the Tabernacle and Ceremonial laws. In chapter 4 of Leviticus we have the first sin offering plus other offerings.

humble servant of the Lord God Most High
 

thisistheendtimes

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7angels,

It doesn't bother me that you believe I am wrong and have been deceived (I was SPECULATING that God MIGHT use whoever wants to love Him more deeply than they love the bible, but it's all a free choice of the individual).

...(it really does not make logical sense to LOVE A BOOK, does it?, just think how God feels that you do that!).

Actually, it is not just a "CHOICE" (not simply a choice of THE INTELLECT), it depends on the ATTITUDE/spirit of the believer.

Your spirit/attitude right now is to ACCUSE ME (of not speaking in love),....no matter what you think, you are ACCUSING ME and PICKING on me (because you don't mind setting your heart against your fellow man).......do you see?....the "more excellent" devotion is a matter of HEART. Only if you let your heart be kind and gentle (the discussion is NOT about MY mannerisms, I grew up differently than you) will YOUR SPIRIT be compatible with GOD'S SPIRIT....

"His Spirit in the inner man" (Ephesians 3:16).


...(who is the accuser of the brethren?,..."suggestive statements" are ACCUSATIONS).

If you refuse to stop accusing/picking on people and their actions/speech, then God's Spirit won't be truly able to witness to you fully/effectively for a "more xcellent" devotion (no matter how much you want to think otherwise).

You are not letting His 'peaceful attitude spirit' be inside of you (you are not being "compatible" when you accuse/suggest that I speak badly/wrong/unpeacefully).....are you anxious to play 'VICTIM' and crucify/persecute another person?).

Romans 8:16 "it is the Spirit himself bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God".

Solid food will only truly be understood by those who willingly DO/PRACTICE what is right (picking on people and how they speak is not "OF GOD'S SPIRIT").

"Solid food is for..." those who PRACTICE/do right.

I am not a people-pleaser, I do not explain to anyone who asks.

If you believe that everything about the "depths of God" and the heart should make sense, try this....

Luke 6:35
"and your reward will be great,......for he is kind to the ungrateful and the selfish".

If you really aren't SATISFIED by/with God's kindness (have you really decided that His grace is sufficient for you?), then you are going to be grateful to others, and you will not be selfish. I am not going to explain this to you, because right now you first need to develop the habit of NOT GETTING ON PEOPLE'S CASE about how they speak or anything else (you know,....heartstuff, SPIRIT stuff).

You only think and believe "SCRIPTURALLY", not HEARTFULLY.

I've been speaking to you about the SECRETS OF THE ALMIGHTY (depths of God) and a deeper devotion that hasn't been known for 19 and a half centuries, and you respond with "SCRIPTURAL"? (look at the scriptures I did post, are they in the book or not?....THEY ARE, but they have not been TAUGHT).

YOUR solution is to simply IGNORE them and keep saying "but this, but that". Are you also upset that WE ARE NOT JEWS?. You know who we are baptized into, don't you? (or didn't your teacher masters explain that we are baptized into Jesus?)....

1 Corinthians 10:2
"and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea".

Did your teachers ever explain to you that if we decide to live spiritually inside Jesus's body, then as spirits that are inside His body......we have no gender....

"neither male nor female" (Galatians 3:28)....neither are we a Jew, so we cannot be a Gentile either.....

....some versions say "GREEK" (in those days, people were either members of Greek civilization or they were GOD'S CHOSEN PEOPLE, spiritually, from God's point of view, there were only two kinds of people in humanity).

If believers don't change their heart, all the intellectual understanding in the world is not going to make a difference. IN FACT, worship/devotion is to be to GOD ONLY (NOT 'God and PEOPLE',...including those IN CHRIST). We are only to show love to others AS we show love to ourself (I never kissed myself or showered myself with gifts,...I simply have no need to show love to myself....I'm sane and emotionally stable).

MAN has taught that we should 'lovey-dovey' ourselves and glorify ourselves in order to worship God properly, but God says that we should SHOW NO PARTIALITY to ANYONE (including the brethren) and that if we do, we are returning ourselves to be under LAW and we have become TRANSGRESSORS.

James 2:1 "show no partiality as you hold the faith" (give no special treatment to anyone in order to "worship God").

James 2:9 "if you show partiality,.....".

Were you alive 2,000 years ago?. EVERYTHING, EVERYTHING in scripture was AUDIBLY SPOKEN to OTHER PEOPLE (of course, some of it APPLIES to us modern day Jesus worshippers (like the doctrine/teaching about Jesus)....we are to know enough to figure out what doesn't apply to a LOVE DEVOTION TO JESUS.

Have you ever even HEARD about the "doctrine of Christ"? (so much for your glorious teachers!).

http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=doctrine+of+Christ&t=RSV&sf=5

Anyone who moves on (goes "ahead") to the "solid food" devotion and does not still "abide" in the doctrine of Christ ("Christ and Him crucified GOSPEL of ETERNAL purification/salvation) DOES NOT HAVE GOD.

Jesus said "I and the father are ONE" (of course God always had a SPIRIT of His own, that is why God's spirit needs no separate mention in 2 John 1:9)...

"he who abides in the doctrine has both the Father and the Son".


The Jews included only THE FATHER (they COULDN'T include Jesus, neither did they know there was A SON, so they didn't know God was a "FATHER") in their worship, but now we have JESUS as our ETERNAL/forever/everlasting purification (the FINAL cleansing).....

Hebrews 10:2
"If the worshipers had once been cleansed, they would no longer have any consciousness of sin".

The Jewish worshippers had to repeatedly seek cleansing (every year on the day of atonement, but it was really not SOUL REDEEMING)....

"For it is impossible that the blood of bulls and goats should take away sins" (Hebrews 10:4).

They had never even "ONCE" been TRULY CLEANSED the way we are with Jesus, and because of that, they NEVER had the eternal sabbath rest in Jesus ('ETERNAL God').

'God eternal' is our sabbath because the "eternal" spirit (the Holy Spirit of/in JESUS) purifies the conscience also....

Hebrews 9:14
"eternal spirit.....purify your conscience".
========

I've already been through parts of this and some of your questions/points about "scriptural" really shouldn't NEED explanation, but the problem is that you cannot tare yourself away from the book (think 'outside the box' in order to be a free thinker).

The word "bible" is not even in scripture, neither is the word "Christianity" (the word "Christians" is.....only once, and the word "Christian"/singular is in scripture TWICE).

So read the "word of truth" (it could only be spoken/heard in Jesus's time) and use it correctly ("rightly handle" it), it is the GOSPEL of our salvation.....

James 1:18
"he brought us forth by the word of truth that we should be a kind of first fruits of his creatures".

Ephesians 1:13
"In him you also, who have heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation".

Acts 13:48 "And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of God".

...and glorify the flesh that hung on the cross....

"And the Word became flesh" (John 1:14).

Acts 13:48
"And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of God".

Verses are from the RSV as always.
 

richard79408

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Mar 20, 2012
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Sabitarian, greetings in Christ from sunny Texas,

you asked---Are you really that much of a traditionalist that you can not see that His laws are still to be enforced. Just because we can not live a faultless life do we need to throw out the baby with the bath water? Give up your traditions and actually read what is written in the Word of God.

Actually, no one today can be saved by keeping any--I repeat any of those laws.

Jesus gave the temple{house} back to the people and God no longer dwelled in it..
Mat 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.


This law was not given to anyone but the descendants of Abraham-

Deu 5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.
Deu 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
Deu 5:3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

No Gentiles present at the Mountain--They were never ever given the law. It is not a good thing for Gentiles today to attempt to claim as valid this law as it no longer exists--not even for the jews.

That is not being a traditionalist--that is taking the texts as given--not as man wants today.

And, quite frankly, I do not see you making any kind of progress as long as one insists on keeping any part of the old law.

Richard79408
 

dragonfly

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Apr 19, 2012
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This is very short as I'm bowing out of this thread.


To Sabatarian,

I think there were certain relationships between the Hebrews and Gentiles which were different from others, but those in which Gentiles were included, show that God wanted Gentiles to enjoy the fulness of His blessing.


To Richard,
This law was not given to anyone but the descendants of Abraham


Gentiles could join themselves to the Israelites by circumcision, and thereby become part of Israel. And, the covenant with Abraham is what was fulfilled at Calvary, thus making it possible for Gentile to receive the blessing of Abraham. Galatians 3:14. Furthermore, Paul argues in both Romans and Galatians that those who come to the kind of faith Abraham had (believing God's word), are 'Abraham's seed'. Galatians 3:29


To JLB,

I'm not going to answer with all the scriptures which still apply under the New Covenant.

A Gentile convert to Christianity needs the Old Testament as much as they did back then, to read the detailed definitions of both idolatry and occult practices. I've heard too many Christians express the view that certain things are left to our 'discretion' because 'they're not mentioned in the New Testament', to believe any more that all Christians do have the Holy Spirit, or, that having the Holy Spirit, they know what He's saying to them every time. What was common knowledge in Israel, needs to be common knowledge in the Church no matter what nationality and culture is being addressed. Ignorance, compromises the spread of the gospel and the reputation of Jesus Christ. As Paul said of the Jews: God's name is blasphemed amongst the Gentiles because of you. Same goes for Christians who don't have a clear idea of the OT guidance which still applies.
 

JLB

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Mar 25, 2012
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This is very short as I'm bowing out of this thread.


To Sabatarian,

I think there were certain relationships between the Hebrews and Gentiles which were different from others, but those in which Gentiles were included, show that God wanted Gentiles to enjoy the fulness of His blessing.


To Richard,
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Gentiles could join themselves to the Israelites by circumcision, and thereby become part of Israel. And, the covenant with Abraham is what was fulfilled at Calvary, thus making it possible for Gentile to receive the blessing of Abraham. Galatians 3:14. Furthermore, Paul argues in both Romans and Galatians that those who come to the kind of faith Abraham had (believing God's word), are 'Abraham's seed'. Galatians 3:29


To JLB,

I'm not going to answer with all the scriptures which still apply under the New Covenant.

A Gentile convert to Christianity needs the Old Testament as much as they did back then, to read the detailed definitions of both idolatry and occult practices. I've heard too many Christians express the view that certain things are left to our 'discretion' because 'they're not mentioned in the New Testament', to believe any more that all Christians do have the Holy Spirit, or, that having the Holy Spirit, they know what He's saying to them every time. What was common knowledge in Israel, needs to be common knowledge in the Church no matter what nationality and culture is being addressed. Ignorance, compromises the spread of the gospel and the reputation of Jesus Christ. As Paul said of the Jews: God's name is blasphemed amongst the Gentiles because of you. Same goes for Christians who don't have a clear idea of the OT guidance which still applies.

I love the Old Testament. I have gained great insights through the years studying the shadows and types, as well as Proverbs and Psalms.

All scripture is profitable for instruction in righteousness.

In my opinion, The Law of Moses was God's grace to the children of Israel, given to them to teach them to "walk with Him" as Abraham did.


Unfortunately, in these last days we are seeing a push to re-institute the Law of Moses, with a rebuilt temple and animal sacrifices for The Antichrist to do his work of deception.


God is good and His mercy endures forever!


JLB
 

Saint

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Apr 7, 2012
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You guys throw around the term gentile with abandon; do you really know what it means? Actually there is no such original biblical term gentile. The word Gentile is not once used in any Hebrew manuscript of the Old Testament. There is a very good reason for this, there is no such word in Hebrew, nor any word that corresponds to it. Everywhere you find the word Gentile used in the Old Testament, it is a mistranslation of the Hebrew word goi, which means nation, the plural form of it is goyim. In all cases these words mean nation or nations.

Now let’s look at the New Testament and the Greek translation. Here the word mistranslated Gentile, is nearly always the Greek word ethnos. This means just exactly nation, the same as the Hebrew word goy.

Paul was sent to the nations to preach the gospel and if you study the issue in almost all cases he was preaching to the the Lost Ten Tribes of Israel as were the other apostles of whom Yeshua sent only to the Lost Tribes of Israel.

What does this word Gentile mean and from what is it derived? It is derived from the Latin word gentilis, which means one who is not a Roman citizen. If you use the word correctly, then you would have to say that Yahshua and His twelve disciples wereall Gentiles. None of them were Roman citizens by birth.

Wherever you see the word Gentile in the Bible, remember the correct word is nation, race or people. In many cases it is used when speaking of Israel nations or the Israelite race.

Now I know that many will bristle up at this but if you doubt my word do your own research.

In Yeshua Messiah,

Bob
 

JLB

Member
Mar 25, 2012
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You guys throw around the term gentile with abandon; do you really know what it means? Actually there is no such original biblical term gentile. The word Gentile is not once used in any Hebrew manuscript of the Old Testament. There is a very good reason for this, there is no such word in Hebrew, nor any word that corresponds to it. Everywhere you find the word Gentile used in the Old Testament, it is a mistranslation of the Hebrew word goi, which means nation, the plural form of it is goyim. In all cases these words mean nation or nations.

Now let’s look at the New Testament and the Greek translation. Here the word mistranslated Gentile, is nearly always the Greek word ethnos. This means just exactly nation, the same as the Hebrew word goy.

Paul was sent to the nations to preach the gospel and if you study the issue in almost all cases he was preaching to the the Lost Ten Tribes of Israel as were the other apostles of whom Yeshua sent only to the Lost Tribes of Israel.

What does this word Gentile mean and from what is it derived? It is derived from the Latin word gentilis, which means one who is not a Roman citizen. If you use the word correctly, then you would have to say that Yahshua and His twelve disciples wereall Gentiles. None of them were Roman citizens by birth.

Wherever you see the word Gentile in the Bible, remember the correct word is nation, race or people. In many cases it is used when speaking of Israel nations or the Israelite race.

Now I know that many will bristle up at this but if you doubt my word do your own research.

In Yeshua Messiah,

Bob


Thanks for that nugget.

Please consider a couple things about this scripture.

In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice." Genesis 22:18

1. ) All the nations here is not restricted to just the lost 10 tribes.

2.) Abraham was not a Jew, he was Syrian!


Thanks, JLB
 

0bed

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Feb 21, 2010
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Obed, greetings in Christ from sunny Texas,

you said--Jesus said "Keep my commandments." Do you believe in the divinity of Jesus who said, "Before Abraham, I AM?"

Yes, but to whom did He say it? Jesus says it to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. To that last generation of Jews.

The commandments were the Mosiac law--and, they were not keeping them--they were using instead those 613 man made scribal laws..
Richard79408

Yes I believe in the divinity of Jesus.
The commandments Jesus gave us were neither those received on Mt. Sinai or the Mosaic Levitical laws.
We still have to keep the law of the land and if we want to be obedient to Jesus we will follow His teaching also.
There is no salvation through keeping the law, which is what is meant when people say we are not under law, but instead those who accept Christ as their saviour are living under the Grace of God and the victory that was wrought at Calvery's cross for Jew and Gentile (non-Jew) alike. (I can do large text as well.)
 

Saint

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Thanks for that nugget.

Please consider a couple things about this scripture.

In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice." Genesis 22:18

1. ) All the nations here is not restricted to just the lost 10 tribes.

2.) Abraham was not a Jew, he was Syrian!


Thanks, JLB

What is the fulness of the nations JLB? What does God say about it?
And his father refuseth, and saith, `I have known, my son, I have known; he also becometh a people, and he also is great, and yet, his young brother is greater than he, and his seed is the fulness of the nations;' (Gen 48:19 YLT)

Maybe this is the blessings to all the nations on earth; the dispersal of the tribes into all the nations.

"If you return, O Israel, declares the LORD, to me you should return. If you remove your detestable things from my presence, and do not waver, and if you swear, 'As the LORD lives,' in truth, in justice, and in righteousness, then nations shall bless themselves in him, and in him shall they glory." (Jer 4:1-2 ESV)

In Yeshua Messiah,

Bob
 

7angels

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'thisistheendtimes'

i just tried to help correct your thinking about one of your sentences and you come back judging me and my intents. i advise you to watch who you judge and what you say because according to the word what standards you use to judge others will be used on you. i hope you repent. i forgive you and have asked God to not hold what you have said about me against you. i am praying for you to let God show you the truth of his word and to help you get over any area where you have been taught incorrectly

God bless.
 

thisistheendtimes

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7angels,

In your first post to me, you wrote "i want to thank you for the information. that was new to me".....NO, you are WRONG. What I write is not new to YOU, it is new to the WHOLE WORLD (if you've ever heard any of the things that I've written, it was from someone who read some of my posts from the last 5 years).

I made you aware of the fact that I'm FIFTY EIGHT years old (yes, I expect that to be meaningful to anyone who, instead of ignoring reality, is willing to THINK....a 'THINKER').

I came to Christ back in the 80's (I was a "Christian" for 23 years)....I am well knowledgeable of the things about which I write, and also know about all the lies that I expose.

How old are you,...17, 13?....and YOU are going to "correct" ME (could you possibly be a little less condescending, oh Great One?).

Take special notice that I am writing things that THE WHOLE WORLD has not KNOWN/UNDERSTOOD for centuries (likely the whole 19 and a half centuries since Antioch).

Paul spoke against "sectas perditionis" (sect of perdition/heresy). The modern secular church is the result/outcome of centuries of perditious beliefs (the "son of" perdition).

Lawlessness remains "a MYSTERY" because we don't want to admit that we are THE LAWLESS, we refuse to live the way The Lord truly desires...."LAW" of LIBERTY.

...AND, on top of that, your proposal/intent is to "correct my thinking" about "ONE" sentence (not five sentences or an incorrect paragraph/thought). Because you are "picking on me", you "PICK" on a SINGLE SENTENCE out of all that I have written (I might have written a total of 3,000 sentences...and you AIM for one).....and you conveniently neglect to indicate which one also....OH, no you're not picking on me or "retaliating" for what makes you "upset and uncomfortable" in your empire of pride (your COMFORT ZONE)......oh, no, you just come back at me attacking me with "suggestive semantics" and being defensive so you can play the 'victim' that deserves 'pity' (oh, you're such a long-suffering hero/martyr).


...and you are going to "ADVISE" me (oh, that's right, you are not being harsh against me and ORDERING...SEMANTICS) not to JUDGE OTHER PEOPLE'S ACTIONS/WORDS "AGAINST" me......(I have "discern judged" your actions "against" me, but I have not given you a PENALTY (YOU are "penalizing" me with your words and suggestions).

Judging is done all the time (as DISCERNMENT), it is "JUDGING AGAINST" and desiring the person to serve a PENALTY that is WRONG.

....you offered me no ultimatum of your own (not that it is right at all to "THREATEN"), but you blame the threat on GOD ("according to the word") and the code of morality ("standards").

And then you suggest that I "repent" (of what?...that I don't treat you like a primadonna?).

...I do realize that you so very graciously have decided to "forgive" me that you have decided to become an UPSET AND UNCOMFORTABLE "VICTIM" of such a terrible being as I.

I do believe that you have it in you to become less condescending and less suggestively accusing of people (even of such a terrible being as myself).

OH,.....it is I who has been taught incorrectly ("you have been taught incorrectly").

WHAT IF the things that I write ARE from God?....WHAT IF God wants me here to expose all the lies, falsehoods, and misunderstandings?.

The Lord is now shaking His church (HIS church, "the heaven")......

Hebrews 12:27
"in order that what cannot be shaken may remain".

As always, from the RSV.
 

7angels

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i feel sorry for you. you know much but understand so little. reason i say this is not to to hurt your feelings but to show you truth and hopefully get you to think on these things.

7angels,

In your first post to me, you wrote "i want to thank you for the information. that was new to me".....NO, you are WRONG. What I write is not new to YOU, it is new to the WHOLE WORLD (if you've ever heard any of the things that I've written, it was from someone who read some of my posts from the last 5 years).
i was referring to the information you provided in post #260 if you wish to go back and read it.
I made you aware of the fact that I'm FIFTY EIGHT years old (yes, I expect that to be meaningful to anyone who, instead of ignoring reality, is willing to THINK....a 'THINKER').
i don't see how this is relevant.
I came to Christ back in the 80's (I was a "Christian" for 23 years)....I am well knowledgeable of the things about which I write, and also know about all the lies that I expose.
yes from your view point you probably are well versed but just because you believe one way does not mean everyone else needs to believe it also. that is what this forum is for is to hear different view points and see if we are misrepresenting the word of God or to help us understand where where others are coming from with their beliefs.
How old are you,...17, 13?....and YOU are going to "correct" ME (could you possibly be a little less condescending, oh Great One?).
i don't see how this is relevant.
Take special notice that I am writing things that THE WHOLE WORLD has not KNOWN/UNDERSTOOD for centuries (likely the whole 19 and a half centuries since Antioch).
the word teaches that we are to watch out for people who are the only ones that happen to have the only interpretation of the word of God because the word also teaches that we are to watch out for anyone that teaches anything that is contrary to the word of God.
Paul spoke against "sectas perditionis" (sect of perdition/heresy). The modern secular church is the result/outcome of centuries of perditious beliefs (the "son of" perdition).
sorry i know very little about what you speak of here without researching into it.
Lawlessness remains "a MYSTERY" because we don't want to admit that we are THE LAWLESS, we refuse to live the way The Lord truly desires...."LAW" of LIBERTY.
i see no mystery where sin is concerned. there is only one thing sin ultimately leads to and that is death and righteousness leads to life and not death. the word teaches we are to choose between life and death and God said to choose life. life is what i choose also and as such i choose to live godly.
...AND, on top of that, your proposal/intent is to "correct my thinking" about "ONE" sentence (not five sentences or an incorrect paragraph/thought). Because you are "picking on me", you "PICK" on a SINGLE SENTENCE out of all that I have written (I might have written a total of 3,000 sentences...and you AIM for one).....and you conveniently neglect to indicate which one also....OH, no you're not picking on me or "retaliating" for what makes you "upset and uncomfortable" in your empire of pride (your COMFORT ZONE)......oh, no, you just come back at me attacking me with "suggestive semantics" and being defensive so you can play the 'victim' that deserves 'pity' (oh, you're such a long-suffering hero/martyr).
if you would ask for clarification instead of getting all upset then you would of known that i agreed with everything else you said in that post. post #260 your sentence was highlighted in red so that you would see it.
...and you are going to "ADVISE" me (oh, that's right, you are not being harsh against me and ORDERING...SEMANTICS) not to JUDGE OTHER PEOPLE'S ACTIONS/WORDS "AGAINST" me......(I have "discern judged" your actions "against" me, but I have not given you a PENALTY (YOU are "penalizing" me with your words and suggestions).
i am sorry you see it that way. all i tried to do was show you why i disagreed with one of your statements.
Judging is done all the time (as DISCERNMENT), it is "JUDGING AGAINST" and desiring the person to serve a PENALTY that is WRONG.

....you offered me no ultimatum of your own (not that it is right at all to "THREATEN"), but you blame the threat on GOD ("according to the word") and the code of morality ("standards").
i don't blame God but i quote God from his word which we are to use as reproof, instruction, and correction.
And then you suggest that I "repent" (of what?...that I don't treat you like a primadonna?).

...I do realize that you so very graciously have decided to "forgive" me that you have decided to become an UPSET AND UNCOMFORTABLE "VICTIM" of such a terrible being as I.

I do believe that you have it in you to become less condescending and less suggestively accusing of people (even of such a terrible being as myself).
it is your attitude that i forgave you for. according to the word we are to treat others as we wish to be treated. if i was wrong i would expect a person to respectfully tell me where they think i went wrong. then i can think on the matter and see if what they say has merit. if it does then great i have gained wisdom if not then i just say thanks and leave it at that. i am here to learn as well about God as share God with others. if i hurt you feelings then sorry.

WHAT IF the things that I write ARE from God?....WHAT IF God wants me here to expose all the lies, falsehoods, and misunderstandings?.

The Lord is now shaking His church (HIS church, "the heaven")......

Hebrews 12:27
"in order that what cannot be shaken may remain".

As always, from the RSV.

this discussion between us is closed as far as i am concerned. if you wish to keep going then go ahead but i will not reply to any more of your accusations concerning me.

God bless
 

Sabitarian

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Richard and JLB,
Do you know who it was that Gave the laws of God to us? Since the Father has been neithor seen or heard it had to be the Son who wrote the laws with His own Finger. So, why do any of you say He did away with them at the cross when He still states that not one jot or title will pass away from the law until all is fulfilled, unless you believe that this is His perfect world. Do you believe that this is His perfect world? We can not earn salvation and those who are trying to do so would not like salvation anyway. Revelations tells us the we need to keep the law and the prophets to be in Christ. You can not keep the prophets without the law nor the law without the prophets, thus if you have no law you have no prophets as both are equal. If you have no prophets you have no idea of what is coming and will be deceived by any whim that you hear. In the tribulation period the sign of God will be one of the determing factors as to whether you face the wrath of God or the trials of the world. It is also stated that during the tribulation what ever state that you are in at the time will be your fate as change will not be allowed. If you follow Pagan traditions you will face the wrath of God, of course if you have not studied the old testament you will have no idea of pagan traditions or what they are. You will believe the first day worship is from God and Christmas is the birth of Christ, plus Easter is His resurrection. None of these are in the Book and are adding to scripture and the punishment for same is extreme in my opinion. Revelation 22:18 Plus if you celebrate these you are taking away from the Book and the punishment is more extreme. Revelation 22:19
humble servant of the Lord God Most High
 

JLB

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Mar 25, 2012
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Jesus fulfilled The Law.

If he didn't, then you need to start sacrificing animals in Jerusalem.

It's one or the other.

Trying to keep the Sabbath or a couple of others won't do, IT'S ALL OR NOTHING.


Do you believe Jesus Christ fulfilled the Law of Moses or not?


JLB
 

mjrhealth

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Joh 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Then us gentiles where never ever at anytime under the law,

Act 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
Act 15:6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Act 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

Why would you foolishly put on the yoke of the law thinking that somehow you can do a better job then Jesus, when He offers His Yoke which is light.

InAll His Love
 

JLB

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Mar 25, 2012
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Joh 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Then us gentiles where never ever at anytime under the law,

Act 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
Act 15:6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Act 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

Why would you foolishly put on the yoke of the law thinking that somehow you can do a better job then Jesus, when He offers His Yoke which is light.

InAll His Love

Brother,

Sabitarian does not care about the truth. He certainly doesn't care about what the scriptures say.

All he does is spout his depraved opinion and attack those who take the time to give scripture after scripture to him, yet he never bothers to respond with any intelligent scriptural response.

It's a waste of time to try and communicate with him.


JLB
 

Axehead

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For those that are in Christ, the law has no effect. The law only has effect over one while they are alive. You cannot get free from the law unless either the law dies or you die. And the law will never die, as Jesus said (until heaven and earth pass away), so that means there is only way to get free from the law. If the law won't die, then I must. But how can I die to the law?

The law only has dominion over a man while he lives.
Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

Therefore, in God's wonderful plan of salvation, He devised a way (by faith) that we could be set free from the law and no longer be under it's ministry of death.

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom_6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. (when you die in Christ, you are freed from sin. )

And why does sin no longer have dominion over us?
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. (Look at the connection. Sin will not have dominion over you because you are not under the law).

Because, we died and are no longer "married to" or under the law. So, you are preaching a false gospel and whether you know it or not, your gospel will bring people back under the dominion of sin because they will fall from grace, trying to serve that which they have died to. The law cannot save. It only brings death. Yes, it is holy and good

Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

If are not born-again and you seek to serve the law and Christ you are an adulteress and a false son and a religious, legalistic person and if you are born-again and put yourself back under the law you are an adulteress and have fallen from grace and become a religious, legalistic person. Paul explains this in an analogy of marriage. A woman cannot be free from her husband unless he dies otherwise she is an adulteress. Likewise we cannot be freed from the law unless the law dies, but the law won't die "until heaven and earth pass away." So that means, that we must die. And that is the provision of the Lord Jesus Christ for us. That is how He set us free from the law and sin to serve Him in newness of life by the Spirit. For the "letter kills but the Spirit gives life". We died with Him and He raised us to newness of life. We are new creatures in Christ.

Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

Yes, the law outside of Christ will always live and those who live by the law will be judged by it. But, to those who have died with Christ, the long arm of the law has been abolished and no longer has any right over you or can claim you as it's spouse. The Law cannot reach beyond the grave.

Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ;that ye should be married to another (Jesus), even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Once again, If you say you are married to Christ and you are married to the law (observe the law), you are committing spiritual adultery. You cannot be married to both, and you fall from grace. Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace

Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Finally, the law cannot produce the fruit of the Spirit. Romans 7:4 and Galatians 5:23 are linked together with the thought that no law can produce fruit, only Life in Christ by the Holy Spirit, can.
Rom_7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Axehead
 

mjrhealth

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The law is for the lawless, those without the spirit, live by the law if you choose, but do not expect salavtion ,it is through grace we are saved, not by your works, to live by the law is to make the works of Christ to none efeect, you are basically telling HIm that Hies death and resurection was not enough and that you can do a better job. Which of course is the flesh which is the devil.

In His LOve