Do We as Christians Keep the Mosaic Law?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Boaz

New Member
Jan 7, 2014
75
1
0
williemac said:
So what are you going to do about the contradiction your interpretation poses with other scripture? I say your interpretation because for instance, Rev.12:17 and 14:12 simpy says "commandments". They do not say "law". For that matter, why would we accept that they mean the ten commandments? We can see in 1John 3:23, that Jesus' commandments to the church were to believe on Him and love one another. In fact, if we were to link our works of law with salvation, this is the opposite of believing on Him for salvation. It becomes a disobedience to His commandment and His word given in John 3:16. It is also contrary to Rom.10:4, which says that Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for those who believe.

As for Acts 21, where do you get the nerve to reverse the message given? The passage reveals that it was the other disciples that were guilty of heaping the law upon those Gentiles, and they were corrected by Paul. Their conclusion in vs. 25 is this: " But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written and decided that they should observe no such thing except that they should keep themselves from things offered to idols, from (drinking) blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality"

Furthermore, there is no indication in this passage that these things were to be connected with their salvation or justification for life. These were merely given as good examples to follow. In fact in Rev.2:20-22, Jesus deals with who He calls His servants who were actually in sexual immorality and warned that He would send them into great tribulation if they did not repent of their deeds. This confirms His promise that whom He loves, He rebukes and chastens. He did not threaten them with banishment, but rather with chastening, as any Father deals with a disobedient son.

As for Math.5, it must be understood that Jesus came to the Jews while they were under the old covenant and He taught and convicted them under this covenant of law. However, the new covenant did not begin until His death and resurrection. It was explained in Gal.3:23..."But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would AFTERWARD be revealed..24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be JUSTIFIED BY FAITH ...25 But AFTER FAITH HAS COME, WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER A TUTOR" Jesus did not reveal the covenant of faith to those under the law. He rather used the law as a tutor, to confine them under sin, as the law was meant to be used (Gal.3:22). Faith was not revealed until it's due time; not until after His sacrifice for sin. It was necessary for it to be kept a secret until the death of Jesus was accomplished. Otherwise they would not have killed Him.

These verses in Galatians 3 follow after the conclusion concerning the law, which is.....(vs.21) ....."if there had been a law given which could have given life, then truly righteousness would have been by the law".

I would advise anyone here and elsewhere to obey the commandment of Jesus and believe on Him for eternal life, and forsake any thought that life can come by the law. It cannot, it never did, and it never will.
why did God write the law twie with His own fingers :D
 

Boaz

New Member
Jan 7, 2014
75
1
0
0bed said:
In verses 21-22 of the chapter you quote, Jesus gives an example of God's law.

Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Mat 5:21-22 KJV


Below is an example of the Mosaic Law. Which law do you think Jesus is talking about. Is it the Ten Commandments, or is it the law of Moses?

487 Save someone being pursued even by taking the life of the pursuer — Deut. 25:12
545 The courts must carry out the death penalty of stoning — Deut. 22:24
546 The courts must carry out the death penalty of burning — Lev. 20:14
547 The courts must carry out the death penalty of the sword — Ex. 21:20
548 The courts must carry out the death penalty of strangulation — Lev. 20:10
549 The courts must hang those stoned for blasphemy or idolatry — Deut. 21:22
550 Bury the executed on the day they are killed — Deut. 21:23
555 The court must not kill anybody on circumstantial evidence — Ex. 23:7
Why was the law put insid the ark ?
 

0bed

New Member
Feb 21, 2010
127
3
0
Boaz said:
Why was the law put insid the ark ?
These were the Ten Commandments written on two blocks of stone. (I wonder how many, how big, and how heavy the 613 Mitzvot laws would have been to carry around? They were only written down much later anyway.)
 

StanJ

Lifelong student of God's Word.
May 13, 2014
4,798
111
63
70
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
heretoeternity said:
Jesus said in Matthew 5 "heaven and earth will pass away and nothing will be changed in the law (God's law) under all is fulfilled"....look out the window and see heaven and earth are still here, so I guess all has not been fulfilled..obviously He is referring to His return...
Apostle Paul said in Romans..."do we make void the law through faith?" God forbid. We establish the law!...
and Apostle John said in 1st John "sin is transgression of the law"...
Jesus fulfill the law when he died, and he defeated death when you rose again from the dead. That is all that was required under the law so it has been fulfilled.
 

mjrhealth

Well-Known Member
Mar 15, 2009
11,810
4,090
113
Australia
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Why was the law put insid the ark ?
Because they where Holy and only a righteous man (Moses) could touch them.

why did God write the law twie with His own fingers
That was teh first time, teh second time Moses had to hew the stones out of the rock even though God wrote the commandments.. Seet the law went from being a work of God to a work of men. because of mans arrogance.
 

FHII

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2011
4,833
2,494
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
2 Corinthians 3:7-15 KJV
But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
[8] How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
[9] For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
[10] For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
[11] For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
[12] Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
[13] And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
[14] But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
[15] But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.


The law of God is not different then the law of Moses. Other verses show they are used interchangeably. But THIS chapter kills all arguments that say we still must keep the 10 Commandments.
 

Boaz

New Member
Jan 7, 2014
75
1
0
williemac said:
So what are you going to do about the contradiction your interpretation poses with other scripture? I say your interpretation because for instance, Rev.12:17 and 14:12 simpy says "commandments". They do not say "law". For that matter, why would we accept that they mean the ten commandments? We can see in 1John 3:23, that Jesus' commandments to the church were to believe on Him and love one another. In fact, if we were to link our works of law with salvation, this is the opposite of believing on Him for salvation. It becomes a disobedience to His commandment and His word given in John 3:16. It is also contrary to Rom.10:4, which says that Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for those who believe.

As for Acts 21, where do you get the nerve to reverse the message given? The passage reveals that it was the other disciples that were guilty of heaping the law upon those Gentiles, and they were corrected by Paul. Their conclusion in vs. 25 is this: " But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written and decided that they should observe no such thing except that they should keep themselves from things offered to idols, from (drinking) blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality"

Furthermore, there is no indication in this passage that these things were to be connected with their salvation or justification for life. These were merely given as good examples to follow. In fact in Rev.2:20-22, Jesus deals with who He calls His servants who were actually in sexual immorality and warned that He would send them into great tribulation if they did not repent of their deeds. This confirms His promise that whom He loves, He rebukes and chastens. He did not threaten them with banishment, but rather with chastening, as any Father deals with a disobedient son.

As for Math.5, it must be understood that Jesus came to the Jews while they were under the old covenant and He taught and convicted them under this covenant of law. However, the new covenant did not begin until His death and resurrection. It was explained in Gal.3:23..."But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would AFTERWARD be revealed..24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be JUSTIFIED BY FAITH ...25 But AFTER FAITH HAS COME, WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER A TUTOR" Jesus did not reveal the covenant of faith to those under the law. He rather used the law as a tutor, to confine them under sin, as the law was meant to be used (Gal.3:22). Faith was not revealed until it's due time; not until after His sacrifice for sin. It was necessary for it to be kept a secret until the death of Jesus was accomplished. Otherwise they would not have killed Him.

These verses in Galatians 3 follow after the conclusion concerning the law, which is.....(vs.21) ....."if there had been a law given which could have given life, then truly righteousness would have been by the law".

I would advise anyone here and elsewhere to obey the commandment of Jesus and believe on Him for eternal life, and forsake any thought that life can come by the law. It cannot, it never did, and it never will.
Do you worship idols ? Why or Why not ?

What is sin ?

Who was the first sinner ?
 

Dcopymope

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2016
2,650
800
113
36
Motor City
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I believe that the ability to comprehend what you are reading should be a fairly simple task unless we are talking about rocket science. Galatians makes it very clear that those adopted as sons of God through Jesus Christ are no longer under the law put forth on man at Mount Sinai. If you want to follow the law for the sake of some tradition, then so be it, just know that the law condemns, it cannot save you. Jesus is savior because Jesus is the very embodiment of the law, as he fulfilled it. He is the only one that could have possibly fulfilled it as he is the spoken word of the Father in heaven in the flesh. So you can believe that you are under the Mosaic Law if you wish, just know that this will only get you drop kicked into the lake of fire.



(Galatians 3:23-26) "But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. {24} Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. {25} But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. {26} For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus."
If Galatians 3 isn't self-explanatory to you as to the relevance of the Mosaic law, if it does not compute, then I've got nothing more to say to you because then I would have to conclude that your brains ability to process simple information has been corrupted in some way.
 

mjrhealth

Well-Known Member
Mar 15, 2009
11,810
4,090
113
Australia
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
are no longer under the law
That would be true if we where Jews, but us gentiles where never under the law at anytime. Not than not now. We cam to Christ only under Grace. But quiet agree otherwisw.
 

0bed

New Member
Feb 21, 2010
127
3
0
FHII said:
The law of God is not different then the law of Moses. Other verses show they are used interchangeably.
Then I am afraid Moses broke the law of God big time when he ordered the murder of the Canaanites and the rape of children.

Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
Num 31:17-18 KJV
 

Boaz

New Member
Jan 7, 2014
75
1
0
0bed said:
These were the Ten Commandments written on two blocks of stone. (I wonder how many, how big, and how heavy the 613 Mitzvot laws would have been to carry around? They were only written down much later anyway.)
Where were the 613 laws put ?
 

Boaz

New Member
Jan 7, 2014
75
1
0
StanJ said:
Jesus fulfill the law when he died, and he defeated death when you rose again from the dead. That is all that was required under the law so it has been fulfilled.
Jesus Baptism was fullfilled does that mean we are no longer to be baptise ?
 

Boaz

New Member
Jan 7, 2014
75
1
0
FHII said:
2 Corinthians 3:7-15 KJV
But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
[8] How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
[9] For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
[10] For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
[11] For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
[12] Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
[13] And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
[14] But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
[15] But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.


The law of God is not different then the law of Moses. Other verses show they are used interchangeably. But THIS chapter kills all arguments that say we still must keep the 10 Commandments.
Is Ephesians 6:1-3 part of the ten commanments ?

What is the promise that is mentioned there ? thanks
 

0bed

New Member
Feb 21, 2010
127
3
0
Boaz said:
Where were the 613 laws put ?
They were written down on scrolls by Levite priests about the 3rd century AD., and because Moses was from the tribe of Levi they are sometimes known as the Mosaic Law. The law books are the first five books of the Old Testament otherwise known as the Pentateuch.

The 613 laws or commandments were extracted from the first five book of the Bible collectively known as the Pentateuch or the books of the law. The tradition that 613 commandments is the number of mitzvot in the Torah, began in the 3rd century CE, when Rabbi Simlai mentioned it in a sermon that is recorded in Talmud Makkot 23b.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments

The list we have today was codified by the Spaniard, Maimonides. He was born in 1135.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments

The laws and customs of the Land of Israel in Judaism are special Jewish laws that apply only to the Land of Israel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_and_customs_of_the_Land_of_Israel_in_Judaism
 

StanJ

Lifelong student of God's Word.
May 13, 2014
4,798
111
63
70
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Boaz said:
Jesus Baptism was fullfilled does that mean we are no longer to be baptise ?
Jesus' baptism was part of him becoming our high priest in the order of Melchizedek. That's why he told John that it should be done 'in order to fulfill all righteousness'. We are not baptized for the same reason.
 

justaname

Disciple of Jesus Christ
Mar 14, 2011
2,348
149
63
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
"Take this Book of the Law and put it by the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against you. - Deuteronomy 31:26

This is one of the last instructions of Moses concerning the Law.

We are no longer under the Law including the 10 commandments. Yet as followers of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ we are to exemplify love which in following this activity properly we are not in need of laws. Thus it is common under the Law not to murder as in under grace not to murder because that is not a loving activity. This then is liberty rather than bondage where the Law is bondage and grace is liberty.

It is God that gives the Law and it is God that gives His Holy Spirit. Neither are in conflict rather harmony. This is why much of the teachings of the apostles are harmonious with the teaching of the Law. Yet the technical aspect of keeping the Law is wrought in the flesh rather than the Spirit for the Spirit is harmonious with the Law while the flesh is in conflict with the Law. So then these debates are fleshly in nature whereas by the Spirit we innately know and practice what is good but by the flesh we must constantly attempt to measure what is right. Not because we don't know what is right or wrong, but because we seek to justify our actions before others. So then when we are convicted by God in a certain activity by the Spirit, we seek to push that conviction upon others through our fleshly desires to control the activity of others and to justify said activity before others. Yet it is not the legalism of the Law that perfects us rather it is the Spirit and the activity of love that brings us to completion.

One will say "I do this, so must we all" but another "I need not do that". These are meaningless conflicts that are not edifying rather divisive. Because both are arguments stemming from pride, one of self righteous behavior and the other from knowledge, neither seek to be edifying rather only attempt to prove the other wrong.

Love is the common Law we all must obey, nothing more or less.
 

FHII

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2011
4,833
2,494
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Boaz said:
Is Ephesians 6:1-3 part of the ten commanments ?

What is the promise that is mentioned there ? thanks
Eph 6:1-3 isn't a commandmemt.


What promise are you referring to?
 

mjrhealth

Well-Known Member
Mar 15, 2009
11,810
4,090
113
Australia
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Jesus Baptism was fullfilled does that mean we are no longer to be baptise ?
Act_11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

No longer necessary but nice.
 

0bed

New Member
Feb 21, 2010
127
3
0
mjrhealth said:
Act_11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

No longer necessary but nice.
Well worth seeking though. :)
1 Corinthians 12
 

Saint

New Member
Apr 7, 2012
243
10
0
Bible Belt
This is kind of a silly discussion; you better hope that you follow the commandments of God and if not you should fear for your soul.

Romans 3:31
Then is the Law annulled through faith? Let it not be! But we establish Law.

Romans 2:20
An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.

Romans 3:4
God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

Romans 3:6
God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?

Romans 8:4
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

But this shall be the covenant that I will cut with the house of Israel: After those days, declares Jehovah, I will put My Law in their inward parts, and I will write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. And they shall no longer each man teach his neighbor, and each man his brother, saying, Know Jehovah. For they shall all know Me, from the least of them even to the greatest of them, declares Jehovah. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sins no more.
(Jer 31:33-34)

"This is the covenant which I will covenant to them after those days, says the Lord: Giving My Laws on their hearts, and I will write them on their minds;"
(Heb 10:16)