Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. (Psa 119:160)StanJ said:
Sorry about the mistake, what was your point?
Do We as Christians Keep the Mosaic Law?
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Sorry about the mistake, what was your point?
Very true. God's laws are forever, But the verse you give is speaking about God's judgements not God's law, "Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgements endure for ever." Psalm 119:160StanJ said:
Notice also that is speaks about God's law from the beginning not after man has fiddled around with it.
Notice also that it speaks about GOD'S judgements and not man's judgements.
If we take our lead from Jesus, who I believe is God incarnate, Jesus said to the woman taken in adultery to sin no more. The Pharisees who stood in judgement over her said to stone her. These were man's judgements, Not God's judgement who was standing right beside them.
God's judgments are laws. When God decides that something has to be done it becomes a law or ordinance which is also part of the connotation of the Hebrew word here.0bed said:
Brown-Driver-Brigg's Definition
1) judgment, justice, ordinance
1a) judgment
1a1) act of deciding a case
1a2) place, court, seat of judgment
1a3) process, procedure, litigation (before judges)
1a4) case, cause (presented for judgment)
1a5) sentence, decision (of judgment)
1a6) execution (of judgment)
1a7) time (of judgment)
1b) justice, right, rectitude (attributes of God or man)
1c) ordinance
1d) decision (in law)
1e) right, privilege, due (legal)
1f) proper, fitting, measure, fitness, custom, manner, plan
Brown-Driver-Brigg's definition is correct.StanJ said:
You have judgement coming before the law. The law has to exist first before we can be judged according to the law.
Not quite, God's judgments precede an established law and creates that law when rendered. Many English translations render the Hebrew has ordinance or law which is why I don't like using the KJV because it doesn't render the English properly in accordance with modern-day vernacular.0bed said:
You talk of the law and quote the Old Testament. This makes me wonder if you had a Jewish upbringing? Let me quote from Isaiah 1:18 and remind you that we live under Gods New Covenant that he made with mankind, under which we all live and for which I praise and thank him.StanJ said:
Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
From Jesus himself we have this
Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
The blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from sin, but the law condemns. Their end will be worse than their beginning for those who follow the law.
I talk of God laws and what's wrong with the Old Testament?0bed said:
That's correct.0bed said:
The Old Testament was for Israel only. It has been superseded by God's New Covenant to include all nations and now we live under grace and not under law.StanJ said:I talk of God laws and what's wrong with the Old Testament?
That's correct.
Now to get back to your misuse of Psalm 119:160. "Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgements endure for ever."
[SIZE=10pt]In the beginning were the six Noahide Laws[/SIZE]
Prohibition of Idolatry
Prohibition of Murder
Prohibition of Theft
Prohibition of Sexual immorality
Prohibition of Blasphemy
Prohibition of eating flesh taken from an animal while it is still alive.
So, how about you do as you are told in the Old Testament and do not add to, or take away from, the law as it was in the beginning.
Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. Deu 4:2 KJV
It was for anybody who wanted to live under the law of God.0bed said:
Just because you don't understand what you're reading doesn't mean that I misused it. Whenever God renders a judgement or a verdict it becomes a law and as I've already shown you many translations render it as law and some rendered it as judgment. It basically and effectively means the same thing. Anybody who is living under written law and not under the law of Grace is subject to any law in the Old Testament. Regardless if the law existed before the Mosaic law or was that it afterwards as the Levitical law was.0bed said:
Moses is addressing the children of Israel here in Deuteronomy because nobody could add to the Mosaic law. I really have no idea what you're trying to get at?0bed said:
Yahweh was the God of the JEWS. Not the God of the Babylonians, the Egyptians or anyone else, I say that reservedly because it is thought Yahweh was an ancient Canaanite pagan god, who Moses adopted instead of the true God, the I AM, when he married the daughter of a Midianite priest. You even admit Moses was addressing the Israelites only.StanJ said:
Be careful what you say about the Israelites, because they worshipped a pantheon of pagan gods, even burning their children alive to the god Molec. Remember what Abraham was about to do to Isaac. See the Jewish Encyclopaedia and the books of Kings and Chronicles, for their worship of the various Baals.
As for not adding to GOD'S commandments, the MOSAIC law suddenly became 613 laws. Try to understand the difference between God's commandments, and Jewish civil law. Then added to the Mosaic law were punishments for each 'crime' which never appeared in the commandments, so again they were ADDING to the law in contravention of Deut 4:2, plus the fact that God said vengeance is 'mine' not ours, plus the fact that some of the punishments amounted to premeditated murder which is against the commandments, plus the fact that God is the Judge not man and He will judge us on that great day of judgement, plus the fact that the Mosaic laws as practised by the Pharisees are totally at variance with the teaching of Jesus, plus the fact that Jesus told the Pharisees and those who practised the Mosaic law, that their father, who they called Yahweh, was the devil. John 8:44.
The title of this thread is, "Do We as Christians Keep the Mosaic Law?" I certainly hope we don't.
FHII
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The is no difference between the Lae of Moses and the Law of God. Consider:
1. Everything in the so-called law of Moses came from God.
2. Look at John 7:19-23. Jesus said the Pharisees were breaking the sabbath, which he referred to as the Law of Moses.
3. Compare Mark 7:10 to Matt 15:4. What do you notice? Jesus is mixing one of the 10 commandments with another law from Dueteronmy. But whars the differnce? Mark says Moses commanded it while Matthew says God did.
4. 2 Cor 3.... Even if you really are hardened... Fine. The 10 commandments have been done away with and you really cannot drny that Paul is talking about the 10 commandments.
1. Everything in the so-called law of Moses came from God.
2. Look at John 7:19-23. Jesus said the Pharisees were breaking the sabbath, which he referred to as the Law of Moses.
3. Compare Mark 7:10 to Matt 15:4. What do you notice? Jesus is mixing one of the 10 commandments with another law from Dueteronmy. But whars the differnce? Mark says Moses commanded it while Matthew says God did.
4. 2 Cor 3.... Even if you really are hardened... Fine. The 10 commandments have been done away with and you really cannot drny that Paul is talking about the 10 commandments.
I am glad you gave us 2 Corinthians 3, for in there we find another important truth by comparing our translation with the Hebrew Roots Bible. You will notice that in the English translations Paul speaks of the Lord and most people think he is writing about Jesus, which he is. Now read from the Hebrew Roots Bible and you will notice that the Lord Jesus Christ is spoken of as YAHWEH. Jesus is YAHWEH on earth!FHII said:
2Co 3:12 Then having such hope, we conduct ourselves bravely.
2Co 3:13 And not as "Moses, who put a veil over his face," for the sons of Israel not to look at the fullness of the glory of the thing not lasting.
2Co 3:14 But their minds were blinded; for to this day, when the Old Contract is read, the same veil remains, and it is not known to them that the veil has been removed through Messiah.
2Co 3:15 But even to this day, whenever the books of Moses are read, the veil lies upon their hearts.
2Co 3:16 Nevertheless, whenever a man turns to YAHWEH (Jesus), the veil is taken away.
2Co 3:17 Now YAHWEH is that Spirit; and where the Spirit of YAHWEH is, there is freedom.
2Co 3:18 But we all with our face having been unveiled, see as in a mirror, the glory of YAHWEH, and we shall all be transformed into the same likeness, from one glory to another, just as the Spirit comes from YAHWEH.
Paul showed them what hypocrites they were by quoting from their own law. Why would we want to follow the law of Moses that condemns, when we have the law from God's own lips based on the Ten Commandments in the sermon on the Mount. The Mosaic law allows killing (stoning), but you won't find it in the commandments given by Jesus who is YAHWEH on earth. Far better to follow YAHWEH rather than Moses.
Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. 2Co 3:3 KJVFHII said:
Neither has God's law been done away with, but is written on our hearts.
31 "Look, days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I'll make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah.
32 It won't be like the covenant I made with their ancestors on the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt. They broke my covenant, although I was a husband to them," declares the LORD.
33 Rather, this is the covenant that I'll make with the house of Israel after those days," declares the LORD. "I'll put my Law within them and will write it on their hearts. (Not on stone)
Jer 31:31-33 ISV
FHII
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Yea 0bed.... The ole selective reading technique. Your skipping verses 7, 11 and 13 which clearly state that which WAS written on stone is abolished and done away with. Whats neat is that verse 15 states that even today those who are following the law are blinded.
As for verse 3, it isn't talking about the lae being written in our heart. Its talking about the epistle of Christ. That is what is written on fleshly tables.
As for verse 3, it isn't talking about the lae being written in our heart. Its talking about the epistle of Christ. That is what is written on fleshly tables.
No selective reading on my part. You make my point. The OLD MOSAIC law is abolished and done away with, and has been replaced by a NEW COVENANT, about which Jesus said will never pass away till all is fulfilled. God's law has NOT been abolished. God's law is the Ten Commandments that have been made stronger by Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount. God's law is eternal. You are confusing God's law with the 613 Mitzvot laws.FHII said:
Jesus said, For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:18 KJV
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0bed said:
Well then its denial of what you read then. The 10 commandments were written on stone and verses 7, 11 and 13 clearly and without controversy state they have been abolished.
Not to mention my earlier points which clearly show that the terms law of God and the law of moses were the same thing.
You can keep arguing if you'd like... But I'm not going to keep showing the simple and obvious truth to a person who won't acknowledge what is written.
The Jews were God's chosen people with whom we made a covenant, they weren't the only people in the world that worship Him. Moses his father-in-law Jethro worship God and he was not a Jew. Moses did not marry a Jew. I think you need to get your facts straight before making these kind of assertions.0bed said:
What they did wrong is irrelevant. What is relevant is that they were God's chosen people. Even today Christians do many things that would be considered just as bad as what the ancient Israelites did. Abraham was about to sacrifice Isaac based on God's command. If you can't accept that or don't understand the rationale that's your problem not God's.0bed said:
Was there a point somewhere in that? All you seem to be doing is pointing out negative things that men did and that's a given that made it negative in simple things. What point are you trying to make?0bed said:
Well I for one believe we don't and are not supposed to keep the Mosaic law as I've already stated in this thread but you seem to want to strive about words instead of dealing with the concept of the OP?0bed said:
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