Is the Holy Spirit a "He," "She," or “It”?

Rach said:

Here's one of the big problems as I see it. You seem unable to believe that a spirit can also have a gender...as shown when I pointed out the biblical perspective of God the Father (your post #33 shows your denial of God being both Father and spirit). And yet you still claim that 'one of the Trinity' must be 'female', since women were made by God. Your logic is not adding up. And as far as my standing as a deacon...yes, I suppose it does hold me to a higher standard. But it is God who is holding it, and it is God I will answer to, not you. I am doing my best to follow God and His word...that is what I am doing here. Just because I disagree with you, does not mean I'm a hypocrite. In fact, I would say that I have more scriptural basis for my argument than you do. Your big idea is that God made us in his 'image and likeness'...which you follow with opinion and assumption, not biblical fact. You cannot make an argument from what the bible does not say. Just because the bible doesn't tell us that the Spirit is female, doesn't mean we get to freely assume that he is. The bible also doesn't tell us not to eat a lawnmower either, but I'm guessing most people won't use that as an excuse to prove that its a good idea. You want me to say yes...and indeed, the answer is yes...Eve was most certainly made in the image and likeness of God. But before you pounce on that, we must consider, in regards to exegetical understanding, what it means to bear the 'image and likeness of God'. One author says this: "To be made in the image and likeness of God means you are designed to represent God, to make him known, to reflect his glory like a mirror, to look like him. God has made every human being in such a way that simply being human could make his presence know." Another author says this: "Unlike the animals who were made according to their 'own kind', we are made in the 'image of God.' This makes human life distinct from and superior to all other created things. We are altogether unique and bestowed with particular dignity, value and worth. God gives commands to us because he made us as moral image bearers. We can know right and wrong, and we can respond to God with moral obedience as an act of faith and love." Yet another author suggests that after God created our first parents in his image and likeness, they were able to relate to God in a unique way. He goes on to say that this interaction is evidence that the image and likeness we bear enables humans to act as revelation receivers, interpreters and worshipers. We know the word 'image' is often translated as 'idol'. Now, we know 'idolatry' to be a sin, but that is not what the bible speaks of here. Here 'idol' means something that makes the invisible God visible. To image the real Trinitarian God of the Bible is to make him visible to the world. We are to 'mirror' His invisible attributes to the world, somewhat like Moses, who radiated the glory of God after being in God's presence. I could go on, with more and more sources. But the point is this...we are indeed made in God's image and likeness, but that does not mean that one of the Trinity must be female. The bible in no way gives us leave to assume this, in fact, given deep study on the meaning of 'image and likeness', we may in fact come to the opposite conclusion. Consider what this author has to say: "While God is not engendered, he does reveal himself as Father and comes to us as the God-man Jesus Christ. Nonetheless he makes both men and women in his image. Practically, this means that thought they are in some ways different, the man and woman are equal in dignity, value and worth by virtue of the fact that they are equally God's image bearers." This summation fits in with what the rest of the bible teaches about the roles of men and women. So, is Eve made in God's image and likeness? Yes. Does this mean the Holy Spirit is female? Nope. Does it give us leave to make the wild assumption that maybe the Spirit could be a female...nope.

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Rach said:

The way you are using 'she' here in not in question for objects like cars etc. But quite clearly the Holy Spirit is a 'person'...He is God, and He most certainly isn't an object like a car or boat. So since He is His own person, we must ask ourselves (in the query of what 'sex' a 'spirit' could be!) what the Bible references Him as...

Linguistically, it is clear that masculine theistic terminology dominates the Scriptures. Throughout both testaments, references to God use masculine pronouns. Specific names for God (e.g., Yahweh, Elohim, Adonai, Kurios, Theos, etc.) are all in the masculine gender. God is never given a feminine name, or referred to using feminine pronouns. The Holy Spirit is referred to in the masculine throughout the New Testament, although the word for "spirit" by itself (pneuma) is actually gender-neutral.

Actually, in terms of English usage, the masculine pronoun is always used in more ambiguous situations. "he" is used if a the sex of a person is unknown or unsure. "She" is only ever used if the person is definitely female.

In the end, whatever our theological explanation, the fact is that God used exclusively masculine terms to refer to Himself and almost exclusively masculine terminology even in metaphor. Through the Bible He taught us how to speak of Him, and it was in masculine relational terms. So, while the Holy Spirit is neither male nor female in His essence, He is properly referred to in the masculine by virtue of His relation to creation and biblical revelation. There is absolutely no biblical basis for viewing the Holy Spirit as the “female” member of the Trinity.



But if we look at the passages in context, Jesus is not speaking of himself 'in the spirit'...He is definitely talking of something other...the 'Holy Spirit', whom we know to be the third member of the Trinity...His own person, and that Jesus will send 'Him' to us...and there are several passages that talk of the Spirit in masculine terms.

• 1. John 14:16-17-"And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; [that is] the Spirit of the truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him, [but] you know Him because He abides with you, and will be in you."

• 2. John 14:26-"But the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He [Gr. that one] will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you."

• 3. John 15:26-"When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, [that is] the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, He will bear witness of Me."

• 4. John 16:7-8-"But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper shall not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. And He, when He comes, will convict the world..."

• 5. John 16:13-15-"But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. He shall glorify Me; for He shall take of Mine, and shall disclose [it] to you. All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said, that He takes of Mine, and will disclose [it] to you."

So, you may feel comfortable labelling the Spirit in terms of an object, but the Bible teaches us otherwise. That is the danger I was warning you of. Any time we go contrary to scripture and say 'it doesn't matter, because the word I'm using doesn't mean what the word actually means'...it's cracking a door open to something we shouldn't do. If you're usage of the word 'she' doesn't mean 'she', and doesn't seem such a big deal to you, what, may I ask, is the harm of sticking to biblical terminology and practice, and calling the Spirit 'he'?

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Sabitarian said:

Rach and hammestone,
Man was made in the immage of God, however woman was made from man, thus the lesser vessel. All of scripture proves this point and the bride of Christ is the Church as a whole not any denomination. I am surprised that you did not relate these things to your tormentor. The Spirit of God is not a living person and I realize this is a foreign concept to some here but scripture shows the word plainly as a neutered pronoun, which is it. It is just the Spirit of God just one of His attributes as in the begining it is said the Spirit of God was hovering over the earth. There is no trinity as God is only the Father and Son. Please rexamine your scripture with no preconceived notions as a child would.
humble servant of the Lord God Most High

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williemac said:

Ah, yes. You no doubt noticed that Jesus spoke of His relationship with His Father and never with the Spirit. As well, you may have noticed only Two on the Throne. However, Jesus did promise that He and the Father would come and make their home with those who love Him and keep His word. This is found in John 14:23. And it is no coincidence that He speaks only two verses later about the Holy Spirit, Whom the Father would send in His name.. vs.26.." He will teach you all things..."

It came to my attention while meditating on these things a few years ago,that the very presence of the Father and Son are expressed in the person of the Holy Spirit. What does this show us about God?

God is a relationship entity. And He has expressed His nature in His creation. Look at water, for example. It consists of hydrogen and oxygen. The properties of these by themselves are much different and even opposite in some ways, than the properties of water. Such are most things in the physical world. They are things that are made up of other things in relationship.

The same is found in our marriage relationships. God Himself said that the two shall become one flesh. What was He speaking of? Very simple; when two people come together in an intimate partnership, their unison becomes a seperate and different recognizable entity than what either are by themselves. Their combined traits and personalities form something greater and more sighnificant that what either can produce or express alone. Thus, two different things can combine to become one of something else. Two different persons can combine to become a singular partnership that is something else.

How is it that God could exist in a way that would not be a perfect reflection or expression of His nature? The Holy Spirit is not a person? Think again. The bible says otherwise. God has revealed otherwise. Those of us who have His Spirit....know.

If you can see the Father and Son in relationship, you can see the Holy Spirit, who is actually invisible to God's creation.

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Rach said:

To not believe in the Trinity, is to place yourself outside of orthodox Christianity. The bible clearly teaches the Holy Spirit is his own separate person:

Personal Actions of the Holy Spirit
The Spirit comforts John 12:26; 14:16, 26; 15:26; 16:7 The Spirit teaches John 14:26; 1 Cor. 2:13 The Spirit speaks Acts 8:29; 13:2 The Spirit makes decisions Acts 15:28 The Spirit grieves over sin Eph. 4:30 The Spirit overrules human actions Acts 16:6–7 The Spirit searches the deep things of God and knows the thoughts of God 1 Cor. 2:10–11 The Spirit determines the distribution of spiritual gifts 1 Cor. 12:11 The Spirit interprets and brings human prayer before the throne of the Father Rom. 8:26–27 The Spirit assures believers of their adoption Rom. 8:16 The Spirit bears witness to and glorifies Christ
John 15:26; 16:14





Hey Selene. I'm not quite sure what your point is here, sorry. You seem to be saying things I already have, so I'm not sure if you're just repeating and reinforcing, or if you are disagreeing with me in some way!

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Selene said:

Hi Rach,

I'm reinforcing your statements. Of the Holy Trinity, only Christ has a gender. God the Father and God the Holy Spirit does not have any gender. And all three are persons. As you have shown through scripture, the Holy Spirit is a person.

For those who say that the Holy Spirit is NOT a person, just think about your own spirit. Humans have a spirit. When we die, our spirits can enter Heaven or Hell (depending on our life on earth). Our spirits is a person, but has a gender because it came from our bodies who also have a gender. The Holy Spirit, on the other hand, does not have a gender because it never had a body to begin with.

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JLB said:

Selene,

Do you know how ridiculous you sound saying something as immature as "God the Father" has no gender!


Please repent!


JLB

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• God likens himself to a mother comforting her child (Is. 66:13).
• God defines himself as a nursing mother who cannot forget her child (Is. 49:15).
• God sees himself as a woman crying out in labor pains (Is. 42:14).
• God is the mother in whose arms we quiet and calm ourselves (Ps. 131:2).
• God is the mistress to whose hands the maid looks for provision and mercy (Ps. 123:2-3).

Selene said:

Instead of personal attacks, why don't you explain why you think God the Father has a gender? And if you say, He is a male because He is called "Father." Then I will show you in the Bible, that God the Father also described Himself as a "mother.or as a woman" So, having said that, it seems then that God the Father is really pure spirit and has no gender.

• God likens himself to a mother comforting her child (Is. 66:13).
• God defines himself as a nursing mother who cannot forget her child (Is. 49:15).
• God sees himself as a woman crying out in labor pains (Is. 42:14).
• God is the mother in whose arms we quiet and calm ourselves (Ps. 131:2).
• God is the mistress to whose hands the maid looks for provision and mercy (Ps. 123:2-3).

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JLB said:

Isaiah 66:10-13

10 "Rejoice with Jerusalem, And be glad with her, all you who love her; Rejoice for joy with her, all you who mourn for her; 11 That you may feed and be satisfied With the consolation of her bosom, That you may drink deeply and be delighted With the abundance of her glory."
12 For thus says the Lord: "Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, And the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream. Then you shall feed; On her sides shall you be carried, And be dandled on her knees. 13 As one whom his mother comforts, So I will comfort you; And you shall be comforted in Jerusalem."

The her here is referring to Jerusalem.

This is a clear reference to "The Jerusalem from above" which is our Mother and a reference to The Holy Spirit.

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Isaiah 49:15 -

15 "Can a woman forget her nursing child, And not have compassion on the son of her womb? Surely they may forget, Yet I will not forget you.

The analogy here is that God will not forget His children, just like a nursing mother won't forget her children.

God is certainly not defining Himself as a nursing mother, although the heavenly Jerusalem does.

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Isaiah 42:13-14

13 The Lord shall go forth like a mighty man; He shall stir up His zeal like a man of war. He shall cry out, yes, shout aloud; He shall prevail against His enemies. 14 "I have held My peace a long time, I have been still and restrained Myself. Now I will cry like a woman in labor, I will pant and gasp at once.

Because The Lord cries out like those that rush into battle, more like a scream, even like a woman screams with great intensity as she is in labor, does not mean The Lord considereds Himself a woman!

However, Paul said - My little children, for whom I labor in birth again until Christ is formed in you... Galatians 4:19

Paul used this reference, yet he did not consider himself a woman!



This can go on and on - The point is God The Father is male in gender. The Son of God is male in gender!

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The question here is The Holy Spirit Male or female in gender.

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By the way, all the references you made in your scriptures refer to The Lord YHWH, who is Jesus. The Name of The Lord is Jesus

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Rach said:

Yeah, Jesus is the only member of the Trinity with a physical gender. The Father and the Spirit are spirit beings. But we know that The Father want us, as his children, to refer to him as 'male'. So I suppose we could say...for the sake of JLB, that while The Father has no 'physical gender' like Jesus, he is still 'male'...our Father!

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Rach said:

I like this....that being 'God' he transcends gender. It's true, I think, and relates to many other issue's that people often have about God. I think that sometimes, people are too tempted to think that God is just an 'all powerful wizard'....in other words...a person who has immense power, which has elevated him to godhood. It's just not true. God is not human and is not held to any of our 'human' standards. So when we say, 'that's not fair' or 'that can't be because that doesn't make sense'...we are trying to comprehend him under our own perceptions of what 'should be'.



Okay...I already answered this...go back and check post #20 & 22, if you don't believe me.
The important question here...actually, critical for you to answer...what does 'begotten' mean to you?

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