Can You Lose Your Salvation ?

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KingJ

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justaname said:
King J,
I am certain you are incorrect in your assessment of this pericope. The language is plain and there is no need for the allusion of marriage attached to it.

As far as your questions you presented I instead choose to focus on the subject at hand. The way I handled your response may have not been the best approach possible and if I have offended anyone including yourself I am sorry.

My stance on the OP is simple. Only those who achieve salvation (final glorification) are worthy of having the term saved applied to them and are the only ones being saved.
We have both butted heads, but healthily I feel. Thanks, but no need to apologise.

We will only continue to butt heads as we are disagreeing from the root of Christianity. Marriage and close relationships provide the best context when reading scripture explaining our relationship with God / Jesus. We are the bride of Christ. We are children of God. Think of all scripture in this light or else the bible will fly over your head and you will endlessly zoom in on the teeth of a big cute cuddly teddy bear.
 

Axehead

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What is a "pericope"?


justaname said:
King J,
I am certain you are incorrect in your assessment of this pericope. The language is plain and there is no need for the allusion of marriage attached to it.

As far as your questions you presented I instead choose to focus on the subject at hand. The way I handled your response may have not been the best approach possible and if I have offended anyone including yourself I am sorry.

My stance on the OP is simple. Only those who achieve salvation (final glorification) are worthy of having the term saved applied to them and are the only ones being saved.
 

Axehead

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justaname said:
an extract from a text, esp. a passage from the Bible.
Thanks, I did not know that. Should have looked it up but did not have time.

Rather than ask, "Can one lose their salvation", like losing a set of car keys, maybe the question should be asked, "Can one turn their back on God"? Can a person harden their heart through bitterness and unforgiveness during the trials of life, to the point where they walk away from their salvation (God)?
 

justaname

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Axehead said:
Thanks, I did not know that. Should have looked it up but did not have time.

Rather than ask, "Can one lose their salvation", like losing a set of car keys, maybe the question should be asked, "Can one turn their back on God"? Can a person harden their heart through bitterness and unforgiveness during the trials of life, to the point where they walk away from their salvation (God)?
Yes I agree here, and this poses a much harder question to answer.


Jeremiah 32:39-40

39 and I will give them one heart and one way, that they may fear Me always, for their own good and for the good of their children after them.
40 “I will make an everlasting covenant with them that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; and I will put the fear of Me in their hearts so that they will not turn away from Me.

According to this passage is says they will not turn away from me, not that they can not turn away. The fear is instilled for their own good, and is the means in which God restrains their choices. I do believe this covenant is for believers in Christ and is being enacted now, not for some future millennial generation.

This also coincides with this covenant: Jeremiah 31:33-34
33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
34 “They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

And is further affirmed in both Hebrews 8:6-13 and 2Corinthians 3:1-6

I want to expound a bit on the 2Corinthians 3:5-6 passage.


5 Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God,
6 who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Now this explains that the adequacy we have is not from ourselves, for we are incapable of producing anything adequate for salvation, but our adequacy is from God. Logic proceeds if God is the one by which we gain our adequacy, God will never judge Himself inadequate in us.

Ephesians 1:4-6
4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love
5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,
6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.

This passage shows both election and predestination. We are predestined to adoption (salvation) according to the intention of His will.

Meditate on this now. Can anyone thwart God's intention or will? If you are predestined can you refuse or change God's plan? I think not.

There are many warning passages that seem to contradict this but I believe the Jeremiah pericope makes the strongest case for eternal salvation being permanent. With that said, modern scholars attribute the warning passages' application to rewards.
 

tomcat3443

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rainbows said:
Romans 8: 29

29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son,
so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;

Your answer would be the standard answer Angelina.

There are in fact three possible answers, the first in context would be
the Jews. The second the Gentiles, after all Romans is addressed to the
Gentiles. Finally the third possibility is you answer, the Jews and the
Gentiles.

It should be noted that Romans 8:29 is certainly not addressing
individual election.

If anyone else is confident that they can pin point which group Paul
is referring to, and why?
Here is what God set before Adam and Eve: “Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth.” “And God also laid this command upon the man: ‘From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die.’” (Gen. 1:28; 2:16, 17) Would you encourage your children to undertake a project with a marvelous future, knowing from the start that it was doomed to failure? Would you warn them of harm, while knowing that you had planned everything so that they were sure to come to grief? Is it reasonable, then, to attribute such to God?


Matt. 7:11: “If you, although being wicked [or, “bad as you are,” NE], know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more so will your Father who is in the heavens give good things to those asking him?”


If God foreordained and foreknew Adam’s sin and all that would result from this, it would mean that by creating Adam, God deliberately set in motion all the wickedness committed in human history. He would be the Source of all the wars, the crime, the immorality, the oppression, the lying, the hypocrisy, the disease. But the Bible clearly says: “You are not a God taking delight in wickedness.” (Ps. 5:4) “Anyone loving violence His soul certainly hates.” (Ps. 11:5) “God . . . cannot lie.” (Titus 1:2) “From oppression and from violence he [the One designated by God as Messianic King] will redeem their soul, and their blood will be precious in his eyes.” (Ps. 72:14) “God is love.” (1 John 4:8) “He is a lover of righteousness and justice.”—Ps. 33:5.





Gen. 25:23: “God proceeded to say to her [Rebekah]: ‘Two nations are in your belly, and two national groups will be separated from your inward parts; and the one national group will be stronger than the other national group, and the older [Esau] will serve the younger [Jacob].’” (God was able to read the genetic pattern of the unborn twins. He may have considered this when foreseeing the qualities that each of the boys would develop and foretelling the outcome. [Ps. 139:16] But there is no indication here that he fixed their eternal destinies or that he predetermined how each event in their lives would turn out.)





Ps. 41:9: “The man at peace with me, in whom I trusted, who was eating my bread, has magnified his heel against me.” (Notice that the prophecy does not specify which close associate of Jesus it would be. God knew that the Devil had used David’s counselor Ahithophel to betray him, and He had that recorded because it demonstrated how the Devil operated and what he would do in the future. It was not God but “the Devil . . . [who] put it into the heart of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, to betray him [Jesus].” [John 13:2] Instead of resisting, Judas yielded to that satanic influence.)


John 6:64: “From the beginning Jesus knew . . . who was the one that would betray him.” (Not from the beginning of creation, nor from the time of Judas’ birth, but “from the beginning” of his acting treacherously. Compare Genesis 1:1, Luke 1:2, and 1 John 2:7, 13, in each of which texts “beginning” is used in a relative sense. Take note also of John 12:4-6.)





Rom. 8:28, 29: “We know that God makes all his works cooperate together for the good of those who love God, those who are the ones called according to his purpose; because those whom he gave his first recognition he also foreordained [“predestinated,” KJ] to be patterned after the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.” (Also Eph. 1:5, 11) Yet, to these same ones, 2 Peter 1:10 says: “Do your utmost to make the calling and choosing of you sure for yourselves; for if you keep on doing these things you will by no means ever fail.” (If the individuals were predestinated to salvation, they could not possibly fail, regardless of what they did. Since effort is required on the part of the individuals, it must be the class that is foreordained. God purposed that the entire class would conform to the pattern set by Jesus Christ. Those selected by God to be part of that class, however, must prove faithful if they are actually to attain the reward set before them.)


Eph. 1:4, 5: “He chose us in union with him [Jesus Christ] before the founding of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love. For he foreordained us to the adoption through Jesus Christ as sons to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.” (It is noteworthy that, at Luke 11:50, 51, Jesus parallels “the founding of the world” with the time of Abel. Abel is the first human who continued to have God’s favor throughout his life. Thus, it was after the rebellion in Eden but before the conception of Abel that God formed his purpose to produce a “seed” through which deliverance would be provided. [Gen. 3:15] God purposed that associated with the principal Seed, Jesus Christ, would be a group of his faithful followers who would share with him in a new government over the earth, the Messianic Kingdom.)
 

justaname

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tomcat3443 said:
Here is what God set before Adam and Eve: “Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth.” “And God also laid this command upon the man: ‘From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die.’” (Gen. 1:28; 2:16, 17) Would you encourage your children to undertake a project with a marvelous future, knowing from the start that it was doomed to failure? Would you warn them of harm, while knowing that you had planned everything so that they were sure to come to grief? Is it reasonable, then, to attribute such to God?


Matt. 7:11: “If you, although being wicked [or, “bad as you are,” NE], know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more so will your Father who is in the heavens give good things to those asking him?”


If God foreordained and foreknew Adam’s sin and all that would result from this, it would mean that by creating Adam, God deliberately set in motion all the wickedness committed in human history. He would be the Source of all the wars, the crime, the immorality, the oppression, the lying, the hypocrisy, the disease. But the Bible clearly says: “You are not a God taking delight in wickedness.” (Ps. 5:4) “Anyone loving violence His soul certainly hates.” (Ps. 11:5) “God . . . cannot lie.” (Titus 1:2) “From oppression and from violence he [the One designated by God as Messianic King] will redeem their soul, and their blood will be precious in his eyes.” (Ps. 72:14) “God is love.” (1 John 4:8) “He is a lover of righteousness and justice.”—Ps. 33:5.





Gen. 25:23: “God proceeded to say to her [Rebekah]: ‘Two nations are in your belly, and two national groups will be separated from your inward parts; and the one national group will be stronger than the other national group, and the older [Esau] will serve the younger [Jacob].’” (God was able to read the genetic pattern of the unborn twins. He may have considered this when foreseeing the qualities that each of the boys would develop and foretelling the outcome. [Ps. 139:16] But there is no indication here that he fixed their eternal destinies or that he predetermined how each event in their lives would turn out.)





Ps. 41:9: “The man at peace with me, in whom I trusted, who was eating my bread, has magnified his heel against me.” (Notice that the prophecy does not specify which close associate of Jesus it would be. God knew that the Devil had used David’s counselor Ahithophel to betray him, and He had that recorded because it demonstrated how the Devil operated and what he would do in the future. It was not God but “the Devil . . . [who] put it into the heart of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, to betray him [Jesus].” [John 13:2] Instead of resisting, Judas yielded to that satanic influence.)


John 6:64: “From the beginning Jesus knew . . . who was the one that would betray him.” (Not from the beginning of creation, nor from the time of Judas’ birth, but “from the beginning” of his acting treacherously. Compare Genesis 1:1, Luke 1:2, and 1 John 2:7, 13, in each of which texts “beginning” is used in a relative sense. Take note also of John 12:4-6.)





Rom. 8:28, 29: “We know that God makes all his works cooperate together for the good of those who love God, those who are the ones called according to his purpose; because those whom he gave his first recognition he also foreordained [“predestinated,” KJ] to be patterned after the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.” (Also Eph. 1:5, 11) Yet, to these same ones, 2 Peter 1:10 says: “Do your utmost to make the calling and choosing of you sure for yourselves; for if you keep on doing these things you will by no means ever fail.” (If the individuals were predestinated to salvation, they could not possibly fail, regardless of what they did. Since effort is required on the part of the individuals, it must be the class that is foreordained. God purposed that the entire class would conform to the pattern set by Jesus Christ. Those selected by God to be part of that class, however, must prove faithful if they are actually to attain the reward set before them.)


Eph. 1:4, 5: “He chose us in union with him [Jesus Christ] before the founding of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love. For he foreordained us to the adoption through Jesus Christ as sons to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.” (It is noteworthy that, at Luke 11:50, 51, Jesus parallels “the founding of the world” with the time of Abel. Abel is the first human who continued to have God’s favor throughout his life. Thus, it was after the rebellion in Eden but before the conception of Abel that God formed his purpose to produce a “seed” through which deliverance would be provided. [Gen. 3:15] God purposed that associated with the principal Seed, Jesus Christ, would be a group of his faithful followers who would share with him in a new government over the earth, the Messianic Kingdom.)
The only thing I need to say to this is God is omniscient and being as such this in no way makes Him responsible for man's actions.
Isaiah 46:9-10

9 “Remember the former things long past,
For I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is no one like Me,
10 Declaring the end from the beginning,
And from ancient times things which have not been done,
Saying, ‘My purpose will be established,
And I will accomplish all My good pleasure’;
 

logabe

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Raeneske said:
1 Timonthy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

I am certain, that we are in these times.

In regards to "all" of Israel being saved:

Romans 2:28-29 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

First, it would be good to note, that a Jew is not one simply because they claim the name Israel, and they are from Abraham.

Luke 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

All Israel, does not literally mean every single soul who claims that they are an Israelite. God has sworn, they shall not enter into His rest, because of their unbelief. And it is evident, that they shall be cast into the lake with the unbelievers.

Luke 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

The unbelievers portion is the Lake of Fire. The reason the believer receives more stripes, is because he knew our Lord's will, yet did not do it. He is judged according to his works, and based on what he had and did not do.

Luke 12:47-48 And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

And so you know, they do not escape the Lord's judgment. They burn, depending on their sins, and then become ashes, and cease to exist. There is no evidence anywhere that they remain saved.

Obadiah 1:15-16 For the day of the LORD is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head. For as ye have drunk upon my holy mountain, so shall all the heathen drink continually, yea, they shall drink, and they shall swallow down, and they shall be as though they had not been.

Malachi 4:1-3 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

Nahum 1:10 For while they be folden together as thorns, and while they are drunken as drunkards, they shall be devoured as stubble fully dry.


Now, it does not seem that Paul is saying that person is doomed. It seems, that the people are the works when Paul is speaking. And those people shall go through fiery trials, as we go through. The work upon the people you have done, the "building" upon the foundation, is what is possible that it may be burned up. All work is tried: Some are found to be solid work, and some is burned up. Yet, you shall not personally die, if the person you have laboured thus for does not make it to Heaven. They will be burnt up, and turn to ash, and they shall be as if they have never existed. It will be their fault, for not passing the trials, and not yours.

I believe saying someone is saved would be a general statement. What I
need to say is someone can be justified through faith. Justification is where
you are imputed righteous in the eyes of God. In other words, you have
been covered by the blood of the Lamb through your faith that God has
given you. God will not take our justification position away from us. He will
always deal with us differently than an unbeliever because of our Passover
experience.

The Israelites were saved from slavery after they had their Passover experience
in Egypt, but through faith they were saved from that bondage. After going
into the wilderness to be trained by God they rejected His correction. This
experience is called Sanctification and it is where most Christians stumble. By
not understanding the Pentecostal feast, we begin to imply that most Christians
will loose their salvation.

Sanctification is where God deals with our soul, but justification is where God
changes our heart. It takes just a moment to be justified, but it takes a lifetime
to be sanctified because it is a process that God brings us through to change our
works to His works.

The point is that there is a two-step process here. Passover signifies justification
by faith; Pentecost signifies sanctification the process of putting on the mind of
Christ which changes your works and qualifies you for the 1st Resurrection. God
does the justifying and He also does the sanctifying. We are to become obedient
to the works that He wants us to walk in.

Yet we have to distinguish between being "saved" and being "justified". The two
terms are not the same thing. Most people equate justification with full salvation,
when in fact it is only the first of many salvations.

Let me explain... you were saved (justified) in your most holy place (spirit) when
you believed on the Lord. You are being saved in your holy place (soul) by the
baptism of the Holy Ghost which is your Pentecostal experience called (sanctification),
and you will be fully saved when your tabernacle is changed in a moment and mortal
puts on immortality. This is called glorification which we will receive @ the 2nd coming
of Jesus Christ.

So do you mean was I saved, am I being saved, or will I be saved? Depending on what
phase of the process you are in. In essense, God saved us from the world @ Passover,
He is saving us from the carnal mind @ Pentecost, and we will be fully saved from death
@ Tabernacles. 1st Thess. 5:23 gives us some understanding of this matter,

23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and
I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be
preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus
Christ.

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe
 
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rockytopva

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I am a single guy. I normally go to work and do my job without talking to many people. There is a lady that I was attracted to who does not think anything wrong with mutual sexual experience between two agreeing parties. As she is Baptist she thinks that because she got saved years ago she can do what she pleases, she says she will never loose her salvation. My argument to her is that I do not want to be in a relationship that God cannot bless.
 

Raeneske

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logabe said:
I believe saying someone is saved would be a general statement. What I
need to say is someone can be justified through faith. Justification is where
you are imputed righteous in the eyes of God. In other words, you have
been covered by the blood of the Lamb through your faith that God has
given you. God will not take our justification position away from us. He will
always deal with us differently than an unbeliever because of our Passover
experience.

The Israelites were saved from slavery after they had their Passover experience
in Egypt, but through faith they were saved from that bondage. After going
into the wilderness to be trained by God they rejected His correction. This
experience is called Sanctification and it is where most Christians stumble. By
not understanding the Pentecostal feast, we begin to imply that most Christians
will loose their salvation.

Sanctification is where God deals with our soul, but justification is where God
changes our heart. It takes just a moment to be justified, but it takes a lifetime
to be sanctified because it is a process that God brings us through to change our
works to His works.

The point is that there is a two-step process here. Passover signifies justification
by faith; Pentecost signifies sanctification the process of putting on the mind of
Christ which changes your works and qualifies you for the 1st Resurrection. God
does the justifying and He also does the sanctifying. We are to become obedient
to the works that He wants us to walk in.

Yet we have to distinguish between being "saved" and being "justified". The two
terms are not the same thing. Most people equate justification with full salvation,
when in fact it is only the first of many salvations.

Let me explain... you were saved (justified) in your most holy place (spirit) when
you believed on the Lord. You are being saved in your holy place (soul) by the
baptism of the Holy Ghost which is your Pentecostal experience called (sanctification),
and you will be fully saved when your tabernacle is changed in a moment and mortal
puts on immortality. This is called glorification which we will receive @ the 2nd coming
of Jesus Christ.

So do you mean was I saved, am I being saved, or will I be saved? Depending on what
phase of the process you are in. In essense, God saved us from the world @ Passover,
He is saving us from the carnal mind @ Pentecost, and we will be fully saved from death
@ Tabernacles. 1st Thess. 5:23 gives us some understanding of this matter,

23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and
I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be
preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus
Christ.

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe
Yes, sanctification is where Christians stumble (Christians, not God). This is where they lose their salvation however. If one is being sanctified and they wholly turn their heart around back to sin, they lose their salvation. In other words: Your fate is not really sealed until you're dead. That's the point I'm trying to make. You can be saved for a while, but you also can turn your back on God, and reject the free gift.

I know some argue here that God wouldn't do such a thing, but they're missing the point. God was the one wooing you in the first place, you accepted the free gift of salvation. Can you turn back around, and reject that free gift? Yes. Is not the gift offered to atheists, etc as well? Yes, it is your free will to turn back around after receiving the love of Christ.
 

logabe

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Raeneske said:
Yes, sanctification is where Christians stumble (Christians, not God). This is where they lose their salvation however. If one is being sanctified and they wholly turn their heart around back to sin, they lose their salvation. In other words: Your fate is not really sealed until you're dead. That's the point I'm trying to make. You can be saved for a while, but you also can turn your back on God, and reject the free gift.

I know some argue here that God wouldn't do such a thing, but they're missing the point. God was the one wooing you in the first place, you accepted the free gift of salvation. Can you turn back around, and reject that free gift? Yes. Is not the gift offered to atheists, etc as well? Yes, it is your free will to turn back around after receiving the love of Christ.
In God's sovereignty, He blinded Israel for the purpose of saving the whole
world. When a person is disobedient to the Law of God he has to pay for
that crime by a judgment that comes from the Law that he broke.

But what about God blinding Israel and making them His enemy. Was it their
fault or was it the Plan of God? Let's see what Paul says in Romans 11:28,

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for
your sakes : but as touching the election, they are
beloved for the fathers' sakes.

Just as God had elected the remnant of Grace, He also had a plan for His enemies.
Yet in spite of this enmity, He planned to save His enemy,"which was Israel", through
the Mercy of God. In other words, Israel had nothing to do with God saving them in
the end because it will totally be by the Grace of God.

Since Adam fell in the garden the nations have been God's enemy. But God had a plan
to blind Israel and make them His enemy for the purpose of saving the nations. God
called one man and trained him so he could bless all the nations of the world. That man
was Abraham and so it was because the nations were blind God called him out to bless
them.

Later, when Israel fell into rebellion and disobedience like the other nations, God's plan
was to scatter them into the enemy nations for the purpose of saving his enemies.
Romans 11:30-31,

30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have
now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed , that through
your mercy they also may obtain mercy .

In other words, God blinded Israel to bring judgment upon them, so that judgment was
to sow Israel in the field (world). God did this to bless all the families of the earth.
Romans 11:32,

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he
might have mercy upon all.

Keep in mind that if God's purpose wasn't to save all of mankind, this would be terribly
unjust. It is when man doesn't understand the plan of God (blinded), that they cannot
comprehend God's sovereignty. But look @ what God said in Romans 11:29,

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

In essense, God is telling us He has no regrets. It is a great plan and He is sticking to it.
God knows what He is doing and when it is time to take the blinders off of the creation,
it will be done. We need to get out of the gloom and doom and get into the Mercy that
God has provided and begin to let the world know God hasn't left us nor forsaked us. He
is still on the throne and we can come to Him for our rest knowing that He has a plan for
our friends, family, and our enemies. Jesus said, Love your Enemies!

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe
 
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HollyRock said:
I used to think that you could'nt lose your salvation but now I'm not so sure..can someone help me out here ?
You are the slave of righteousness - no longer a slave to sin. You were bought with a price, a terrible price, and He who paid the debt will not let go of His own.

Being a slave to righteousness does not imply a license to sin.
Yet there remains a punishment and a judgment upon the slave who does not do his master's will. Can the master not do what He wants with His slave - either for good or evil? He most certainly can.

The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom and may I be so bold as to also say - the birth of confidence in the Master. For the joy of the Lord is not all happiness and light and jolly singing, it is the peaceful quiet, rock solid, confidence that the God who is good will Be good to his good slaves.

Even if that goodness requires a slap now and then.

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...
 

rockytopva

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he that endureth to the end shall be saved... - Matthew 10:22

How much plainer is that?
 

aspen

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Axehead said:
Thanks, I did not know that. Should have looked it up but did not have time.

Rather than ask, "Can one lose their salvation", like losing a set of car keys, maybe the question should be asked, "Can one turn their back on God"? Can a person harden their heart through bitterness and unforgiveness during the trials of life, to the point where they walk away from their salvation (God)?
I agree.

We have the choice to trust God and submit to His sanctification (learning to love outwardly) or continue to be sanctitified for Hell (living selfishly). Losing our salvation is a misnomer - the only way we can lose a relationship we are committed to is if the other party is unfaithful - since God is always faithful, we are the only ones who may choose to walk away.

Believing that our salvation can be lost like a set of car keys is a demonstration of a lack of faith in the character of God.
 

IanLC

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Sanctification is as much apart of the salvation walk as justification and regeneration. God's will that we walk in all of them but it is up for us to accept and SUBMIT to His will. In simplicity, Jesus paid the price to cover all our sins (He wrote the check), we must accept His work and obey Him (thus cashing the check). If we continue to sin thereafter we cause a deficit in our lives meaning a difference between what we profess and what we possess. Thus the Holy Spirit is given to us for the sanctification of our inner man and thus our outward man as well. So there is no excuse for not living holy, loving all people, and being obedient to God for He has given us the Holy Ghost and the Holy Writ what more do we need?
 
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justaname

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BIBLE

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logabe

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rockytopva said:
he that endureth to the end shall be saved... - Matthew 10:22

How much plainer is that?
What does it mean? Most christians assume Jesus was saying if you don't
overcome you will be tormented for eternity. But let's use scripture to try
and understand what He is actually saying. Rev. 20:5-6 says,

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the
thousand years were finished . This is the first
resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first
resurrection: on such the second death hath no
power, but they shall be priests of God and of
Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

So John is telling us the rest of the dead (the ones that didn't overcome)
missed out on being blessed and holy in the thousand year reign of the
Lord. In other words, they couldn't enter the Promise Land because they
didn't learn to submit to the laws of God.

I need to understand what this 1st Resurrection is all about. What happens
in this AGE to come. Rev. 2:26,

26 And he that overcometh , and keepeth my works
unto the end, to him will I give power over the
nations:

Notice he is talking to the whole church. He's not talking to the unbelievers.
Let's get some more scripture to back up what this AGE will be all about for
the Overcomer. Rev. 2:10-11,

10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer :
behold , the devil shall cast some of you into prison,
that ye may be tried ; and ye shall have tribulation
ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give
thee a crown of life.
11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit
saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall
not be hurt of the second death.

Jesus will give us in that AGE not just life, but He will give us a "CROWN"
which represents our Melchizedek Priesthood. If we overcome by submitting
to the ways and works of God, we will become a "King/Priest" in the AGE to
come which is a type and shadow of David's Kingship. God will use us to
establish the Tabernacle of David in the Tabernacles Age.

Also, we need to recognize we will not be hurt in the second death. Why?
Because we will have entered into the 1st Resurrection. What does that mean?
A person that overcomes will receive his Promised Land that Jesus will give us
@ His 2nd coming. This Promised Land that He will give you isn't a plot of
real estate like in the old Testament, but it is immortality in that AGE. It is not
eternity. What's the difference between immortality in that AGE and eternity?

Eternity has no time and needs no change. Immortality in the Tabernacles Age
has time for the purpose of teaching the people the ways of God for the purpose
of changing their ways. The Overcomers want need to change because they will
be immortal. They will have the ability to never get sick, depressed, or discouraged.
Wow... Jesus will give us LIFE and give it more abundantly in that AGE!

Immortality refers to the quality of life an endless life, or deathlessness. The goal
is to receive immortality @ an earlier date. In this case, a thousand years in the
"Great Sabbath Rest" that God has promised to them that love Him.

I said all of that to motivate you and so that we can all understand what we will be
missing if we don't learn to submit to the Spirit of God. Will God throw us away for
not learning His ways in this Grace Age. No... but we will suffer loss when we realize
the things we could have experienced in that next AGE (1st Cor. 3:15).

As time passes we are getting closer to that "Great Age", and I know faith comes by
hearing. I believe that we don't hear about the "Age" enough so we don't meditate
upon it and we keep it very general. That "Age" will be the time when everything
changes and whole nations begin to come into the Kingdom of God (Isa. 2:2-4).

The question is... do you want to wait a thousand years or do you want it thousand
years sooner? I think I know your answer.

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe